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Singletary vs Moss

Tipster19

By Tipster19
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Tipster19 Veteran

Tipster19

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I have a few questions that needs some time for the answers to come to fruition. There’s plenty of speculation that go around about these two but I’ll just streamline to what the Bills would do if both are extremely productive, like I think they will be, when both get close to fulfilling their first contract. Could the Bills afford to pay both of them big contracts? I don’t know if that’s possible, or if it is, would that be too much money to tie up at that position? If all things are equal between those two when that time comes and the Bills could only re-sign one of them, then who would that be? If both are healthy I think what might be the safer bet would be Singletary. Due to the way Moss runs and his college injury I would think that Singletary would stand a good chance of being able to having a longer career. 
 

I’m also anxious to see how these 2 perform together as a 1-2 punch. I think that the Bills could have the top rushing yardage in the league. As much as I love the Bills and Singletary I’m excited the most about is watching Moss run this season. Matter of fact as exciting as these last 3 years have been with all the rebuilding process, adding, cutting and trading of players, that tandem of Singletary & Moss, and Moss in particular, this year is going to be the big difference between the Bills having a good team and a great team. I truly believe that between the pandemic affected season, the Bills’ great defense and their powerful running game they are a serious threat for the Super Bowl and at the very least the Bills are in the AFC Championship game. If neither of that comes through it won’t change the way I think and feel about them and where they are at as a team, it’s just an expectation that I think is a real possibility.

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Augie Hall of Famer

Augie

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I think it’s a great tandem, with Moss coming on later after he shows he can protect Josh. Willingness will not be an issue (maybe even worth extra entertainment points!), but he just needs to prove awareness vs the blitz. 

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IgotBILLStopay Veteran

IgotBILLStopay

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there have been a few instances of multiple RBs from one team  rushing for 1000 yards - i remember Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams doing that for the Panthers about a decade ago.

 

Maybe a more recent and better example of two RBs coexisting and doing well was Ingram and Kamala for the Saints in 2018. Moss reminds me of Ingram and Singletary reminds me of Kamara. Kamara had nearly 1600 yards from scrimmage (nearly 900 yds rushing) and Ingram ran for an additional 645 in just 12 games. Together they formed an effective 1-2 punch that carried the team to a super bowl berth 9were deprived by a refereeing error).

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2ForMacAdoo Practice Squad

2ForMacAdoo

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3 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Moss is a tough workhorse back.  He'll play the role of Frank Gore, but much more effectively.  Singletary is the shifty guy who can get to the second level and has a nose for space.  Only thing we are missing is a homerun hitter.

I know he is incredibly raw not having played a single NFL regular season game, but based on the sneak preview we got last preseason, Christian Wade could be that homerun hitter.

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Augie Hall of Famer

Augie

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2 minutes ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

I know he is incredibly raw not having played a single NFL regular season game, but based on the sneak preview we got last preseason, Christian Wade could be that homerun hitter.

 

I won’t hold my breath, but that would be a fabulous story.  

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John from Riverside Hall of Famer

John from Riverside

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1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Beane saw Hurney pay two RBs in Stewart and Williams, and only some home run draft classes were able to overcome that mistake.

Yeah honeslty 808 I dont know....if they split carries neither one of them will be pro bowl players and putting up the numbers that get a insane 2nd contract.

 

More then likely....one plays more then the other......we have someone like moss until his 2nd contract and then he gets a contract we dont match

 

but we are talking years down the road so not really a concern right now

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GoBills808 Hall of Famer

GoBills808

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Just now, John from Riverside said:

Yeah honeslty 808 I dont know....if they split carries neither one of them will be pro bowl players and putting up the numbers that get a insane 2nd contract.

 

More then likely....one plays more then the other......we have someone like moss until his 2nd contract and then he gets a contract we dont match

 

but we are talking years down the road so not really a concern right now

Exactly...it’s too far off to project. I’m just generally opposed to spending money on RBs when it’s such a readily available position to draft, productivity-wise.

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JoPoy88 Veteran

JoPoy88

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Way too early to even speculate on this.Zach is a rookie. And Devin got maybe a half a season of real work in between the injury and the reps he lost to Gore. 

4 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I have a few questions that needs some time for the answers to come to fruition. There’s plenty of speculation that go around about these two but I’ll just streamline to what the Bills would do if both are extremely productive, like I think they will be, when both get close to fulfilling their first contract. Could the Bills afford to pay both of them big contracts? I don’t know if that’s possible, or if it is, would that be too much money to tie up at that position? If all things are equal between those two when that time comes and the Bills could only re-sign one of them, then who would that be? If both are healthy I think what might be the safer bet would be Singletary. Due to the way Moss runs and his college injury I would think that Singletary would stand a good chance of being able to having a longer career. 
 

I’m also anxious to see how these 2 perform together as a 1-2 punch. I think that the Bills could have the top rushing yardage in the league. As much as I love the Bills and Singletary I’m excited the most about is watching Moss run this season. Matter of fact as exciting as these last 3 years have been with all the rebuilding process, adding, cutting and trading of players, that tandem of Singletary & Moss, and Moss in particular, this year is going to be the big difference between the Bills having a good team and a great team. I truly believe that between the pandemic affected season, the Bills’ great defense and their powerful running game they are a serious threat for the Super Bowl and at the very least the Bills are in the AFC Championship game. If neither of that comes through it won’t change the way I think and feel about them and where they are at as a team, it’s just an expectation that I think is a real possibility.


honestly why don't you just wait and see. Brush up on your grammar in the meanwhile kiddo.

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Aussie Joe All Pro

Aussie Joe

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Tipster..... one of your best...And that’s saying a lot. ..

 

Asking us to speculate on which one they should resign? What a great problem to have down the track..
 

I would be happy to enjoy them both in the next three years and worry what happens after that in 2023 ...

 

 

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machine gun kelly All Pro

machine gun kelly

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Tipster, first, we don’t need to worry about extensions until 2023 on Singletary, and 2024 on Moss so let’s table that until much, much later.  As far as their skill sets, Moss is an upgrade over Gore with fresh legs and a nasty streak to him.  He’s faster from what I see than some think, but as others have we’ll wait til he plays the games.  Singletary we have pro tape on and he is a shifty guy reminding me of a kind of Shady player not that he’s there yet.  It’s a fun problem to have with these two.  They should both contribute very well, and make Allen’s job easier as he has a release if the deep ball is not there.  I’ve seen some of Moss’s skills in the short passing game in college, and Singletary demonstrated that as well last year.  We’ll be fine.  Sit back and enjoy this year.

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Utah John Veteran

Utah John

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I became a Utah Utes fan when I lived in Salt Lake City, and Moss was my favorite Ute.  He is both tough and elusive.  He does have speed but isn't really quick, but he has the power to make people miss if they guess even a little bit wrong about where he's going. I told this board before the draft that we would love Moss if we drafted him, and so far that's looking good.  He reminds me of how Freddy Jackson played with heart, but Moss is more talented, bigger and stronger.  (Freddy is actually taller but Moss is thicker and stronger.)

 

The end of THIS season is a long way off, let alone two or three or four years from now.  Let's hope both Singletary and Moss are having good, productive, injury-free careers, when the time comes to make a decision about whether to keep both, one, or neither. 

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IgotBILLStopay Veteran

IgotBILLStopay

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4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Beane saw Hurney pay two RBs in Stewart and Williams, and only some home run draft classes were able to overcome that mistake.

Stewart and Williams were first rounders who were paid top dollar in an era without a rookie wage scale. Singletary and Moss are 3rd round picks on team friendly deals. And RB salaries have fallen so much relative to other positions that they are rarely salary cap busters. The fact that we are comparing the play of a cost controlled Moss and Singletary to an expensive duo like Stewart and Williams (the panthers went 12-4 with Jake Delhomme! and these two RBs in 2008) only appears to show Beane knows what he is doing, no?

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Chandler#81 Hall of Famer

Chandler#81

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7 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Let Moss at least play ONE game before we talk about whether we'll pay him 4 YEARS from now! But, I too love the possibility/future of those two. Should be awesome. Go Bills! 

This simply wasn’t necessary and you know it.

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eball Hall of Famer

eball

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18 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

This simply wasn’t necessary and you know it.

 

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

Huh? Not sure what the problem is. Simple reaction to a post. Kinda what we do here. 

 

 

Gotta say I’m with BuffaloBillies on this one...his response was nothing close to what we typically see around here, and was even pretty positive.

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

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23 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Alvin Kamara and Mark Ingram from the 2017-18 Saints say hi.

 

He said both "extremely productive", not 2 guys splitting a RB load.  Ingram had under 650 yards. Kamara less than 900. Combined, they had as many yards as Derrick Henry had last season.  Combined, they had 38 more carries than Zeke Elliot in 2018.  They weren't even a top 5 running Offense in 2018.

 

Tell them I said hello, though...

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eball Hall of Famer

eball

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11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He said both "extremely productive", not 2 guys splitting a RB load.  Ingram had under 650 yards. Kamara less than 900. Combined, they had as many yards as Derrick Henry had last season.  Combined, they had 38 more carries than Zeke Elliot in 2018.  They weren't even a top 5 running Offense in 2018.

 

Tell them I said hello, though...


You must have forgotten to check 2017. 

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Bleeding Bills Blue All Pro

Bleeding Bills Blue

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16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He said both "extremely productive", not 2 guys splitting a RB load.  Ingram had under 650 yards. Kamara less than 900. Combined, they had as many yards as Derrick Henry had last season.  Combined, they had 38 more carries than Zeke Elliot in 2018.  They weren't even a top 5 running Offense in 2018.

 

Tell them I said hello, though...

 

I did this exercise with Le'veon bells stats the year he sat out.  They went from 10th to 6th in rushing, and Conner actually had a better Y/R and YPC than Bell the year before. Samuels and Conner both had a better YPC actually.  


Bell was first team all-pro in 2017.  Conner did make the pro bowl in 2018 - but i think the committee approach is better than paying these guys.  Just seems like you get similar production on rookie deals. 

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

I can forsee Moss passing Singletary on the depth chart.  Good luck to the coaches figuring out who starts from week to week.

 

Whoever can block better will get more snaps - Singletary has a 1 year advantage but he lost snaps to gore a year ago because he wasn't particularly good at it.

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

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28 minutes ago, eball said:


You must have forgotten to check 2017. 

 

Ingram was "extremely productive in 2017'.  Kamara had slightly-better-than a rookie Singletary year.  

 

Look they could be a nice 1-2 punch.  If they combine for 1500 that would be great in a pass centered Offense.  I will say that  Daboll could benefit from studying the Saints use of running backs in the red zone....

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Bleeding Bills Blue All Pro

Bleeding Bills Blue

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Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Ingram was "extremely productive in 2017'.  Kamara had slightly-better-than a rookie Singletary year.  

 

Look they could be a nice 1-2 punch.  If they combine for 1500 that would be great in a pass centered Offense.  I will say that  Daboll could benefit from studying the Saints use of running backs in the red zone....

 

We don't even have to sub out a hall of famer for Taysom Hill, we just run those plays with allen.

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Stank_Nasty Veteran

Stank_Nasty

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4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Ingram was "extremely productive in 2017'.  Kamara had slightly-better-than a rookie Singletary year.  

 

Look they could be a nice 1-2 punch.  If they combine for 1500 that would be great in a pass centered Offense.  I will say that  Daboll could benefit from studying the Saints use of running backs in the red zone....

Kamara had just as many rush yds at a full yard more per carry(6.1), along with 13 total td and then there was the 80 catches for 800 yds. “Slightly better than” is a huge understatement 

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

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1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Kamara had just as many rush yds at a full yard more per carry(6.1), along with 13 total td and then there was the 80 catches for 800 yds. “Slightly better than” is a huge understatement 

 

I was using their rushing numbers as that is the discussion, not which of them will be also a receiving threat in this Offense with loads of WRs.

 

Also, as above,  Saints use their RBs to score rushing TDs, not just rack up yards.  In 2017, their WR were Thomas, Ginn Jr and that's pretty much it.

 

 The days of 2 backs running 1000+ yards is long gone.

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Stank_Nasty Veteran

Stank_Nasty

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19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I was using their rushing numbers as that is the discussion, not which of them will be also a receiving threat in this Offense with loads of WRs.

 

Also, as above,  Saints use their RBs to score rushing TDs, not just rack up yards.  In 2017, their WR were Thomas, Ginn Jr and that's pretty much it.

 

 The days of 2 backs running 1000+ yards is long gone.

You started at the top of the page by commenting on being extremely productive. I figured that meant production in general. My bad 
 

I agree we probably won’t be seeing any teams have multiple backs go for 1000. It was a rarity even when the league was more run-centric 

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jwhit34 RFA

jwhit34

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My thought in managing the RB position has been draft an RB 3 out of every 4 years in the 3rd-4th round. Always have them on rookie contracts unless you hit it big on someone and then maybe you extend them. If you whiff on one there are always vet UFAs you can sign cheap to be your #3. You probably never have more than $5-6 million (and most of the time much less) of the cap used for RBs and you can get excellent production. 

 

Singletary-Moss is setting up that way. If both perform well this year, they can probably skip a year and then draft another one in 2022. 

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DCofNC Veteran

DCofNC

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I may be the only one here, but if the way Singletary was used last year is any indication and the fact they spent ANOTHER 3rd round pick on a RB, I don’t think the team is sold on DS at all.  He’s exciting, but the lack of breakaway speed is a killer.  Personally, I think Moss COULD be a top 5-10 back in the league.  He’s basically a prototypical size/speed for the position, runs down hill, has some hands and is pretty elusive.  Aside from height, he’s a like a shiftier version of Derrick Henry.  No I am absolutely not saying he will be DH, but the skill sets are very similar and if he puts in the work and the scheme lines up, I have no problem envisioning that kind of success.  DS could make you miss in a phone booth, but he’s still awfully short and will almost always be the slowest skill position guy on the field, that combination rarely translates to big success in the NFL.  He could definitely make a place for himself on 3rd downs etc, but I’m not sure he’s ever going to strike fear into the hearts of anyone.  Moss just might, especially if the line comes together with Ford and Williams doing some road grading, it might be awfully hard to stop that guy.  
 

The exciting part in all of it, the line has a lot of potential to be not only good, but pretty deep this year, Allen should have some time and the RBs should have some big ole holes out there.  Every one of the linemen is pretty well built for the run, with Morse being more of a true pass protector, but still no slouch.  The running game should be a huge factor this year. Hopefully, they take a page out of the early Patriots dynasty play book, hammer the run when it’s there and torch you with the pass when it’s not.  This O can be awesome if Allen can do his part, there are 2 #1 WRs with speed, a crafty slot guy and I expect Gabe Davis to be a real factor as well, plus we can hope to see some more growth at the TE position, there should be a lot of room in the middle of the field if the run game pulls the Lbs up and the speed at WR takes the safeties deeper.  This could be a lot of fun.

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