14 Positives on Marlins

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Needs to run its course.  

I vehemently disagree 

Edited July 27, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Big Blitz]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

You may as well have linked Trump’s interview saying it would suddenly magically disappear.  Hell, even the comments section of the article is littered with people talking about how it would go away when the weather heated up.

 

You might also want to note that Levitt is a biophysicist, not an epidemiologist.  Smart guy with some interesting insights, but not an expert.

 

 

New York's cases plummeted totally bc they just wear masks and protest more responsibly.  

 

The data is here.  They were at 14% infected in late April via seroprevolance studies.

 

No doubt that number is over 20% now.

 

Annnnd cases have slowed.   

 

I'm open to doing what I've been doing all along.  Listening to all voices and following the data.

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

T-Cells 

Antibodies 

 

Complex science-y stuff

 

 

This has led to speculation about whether a population can achieve some sort of immunity to the virus with as little as 20% infected – a proportion well below the widely accepted herd immunity threshold (60-70%).

 

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584

 

 

 

Well, if you believe the models that have come out of MIT early on you can wait till March ........of 2022.  

Nothing more sciency than taking individual sentences, stripping them of context, and spiking the football...especially when your own cherry picked sentence uses the terms “speculation” and “some sort of immunity” while acknowledging that 60-70% is “widely accepted”.

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Oh, so we can't trust the CDC now? Then who do we trust? All the data out there is compromised then and nobody knows anything.

You can't trust an agency that wrote guidelines for the return to schools, then "softened" them cuz Donald says the guidelines are too tough. Donald is the last person the CDC should be taking advise from. Or maybe we can inject a disinfectant like he suggested. What a JOKE!!!

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I've told you this once before and I'll say it again, you're awful smart for someone who's Dopey!

Dude! Give me a warning at least. I spit my coffee out in laughter!

Thanks and be safe.

[Billl]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

 

 

New York's cases plummeted totally bc they just wear masks and protest more responsibly.  

 

The data is here.  They were at 14% infected in late April via seroprevolance studies.

 

No doubt that number is over 20% now.

 

Annnnd cases have slowed.   

 

I'm open to doing what I've been doing all along.  Listening to all voices and following the data.

Your data consists of one projection from March that has already been proven incorrect and a study that won’t be complete for 2 years.  Both are worthless at this point in time.  

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

New York's cases plummeted totally bc they just wear masks and protest more responsibly.  

 

The data is here.  They were at 14% infected in late April via seroprevolance studies.

 

No doubt that number is over 20% now.

 

Annnnd cases have slowed.   

 

I'm open to doing what I've been doing all along.  Listening to all voices and following the data.

Wow. They went down because they got hit so hard and now there is a significant portion of the population with antibodies.

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Really? The medical community or the medical community that got told to rewrite all the guidelines a couple weeks ago or just the medical community on the channel you watch.

https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/District_Dossier/2020/07/cdc_american_academy_pediatrics_guidelines_different.html

 

What medical community to trust?  The one that agrees with me, of course!

[billsfan89]

50 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That is true. And I dont mean for my comment to suggest that there are not risks associated with opening schools. Its just important that all the facts are right.  The fact that children are not at risk for this disease is an important fact of which people need to be aware, but which they are not. 

 

To be frank, there will be risk up until the point we have a vaccine.  Waiting that long is not a realistic option. It just isn't. I think we can all agree on that, right? Maybe I presume too much. 

 

It's just too big of a risk short term. If it is October and we really buckled down and getting this curve bent then maybe we could have a smart 50/50 approach to in school and distance learning (kids do 5 days in school and 5 days from home every 2 weeks) and we are able to stock schools with PPE and have in place protocols. 

 

But for August and September they shouldn't do any full school reopenings. I just don't see schools being able to reopen properly during a surge in most areas of the country. It has bad consequences written all over it. I think this is where the federal government's scattered approach is not working. The feds should have mandated basic safety standards and flooded districts with PPE and sanitizing products. 

 

But right now there is just scattered guidance and the resources aren't being provided to schools in a timely or effective manner. It just seems like too much of a cluster ***** right now. 

[FireChans]

30 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

..Just hope some of 'the dozen', aren't  your kid(s)

More than a hundred kids died of the flu last year. We should have cancelled school years ago.

[teef]

25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

My wife is due in a couple months.

that's awesome!  congrats!  the reason i ask i because families will have different problems to navigate depending how old the kids are.

 

i have not been cavalier with the virus at all.  as some posters know from all the crying i did, my office was shout down for 10 weeks during the quarantine.  no earning at all for two and a half months.  i'm the primary earner in my house, and i had just opened a building we finished constructing a few months earlier.  it was not fun.  i say this because i'm still someone who constantly monitors how covid is progressing because there's a chance i could be shut down again.  i avoid big crowds, i always wear a mask in public, and we've spent thousands getting my office up to code so we can operate.  i can be done.

 

even with this going on, i'm still 100% for the schools reopening, as long as it's done safely.  if a child or teacher/staff is not in a medical position to return, there need to be alternatives in place for them.  kids learning through zoom was a complete disaster last year.  can it be done if it has to?  i suppose, but there's no substitute for in class learning.  some kids were done in one day what they were supposed to do for the week.  i'm sure it will be smoother this semester, but if the numbers support a reopening, there should be an option to go 5 days.  if some parents or staff don't want to do that...stay home.  

 

an article was posted before about a covid positive child in a daycare.  that was my daughter's day care, and according to the department of health, my daughter hugged the covid positive child.  straight up hugged her.  i was freaking out thinking about my 80 year old parents, would i have to close down again, my nieces and nephews that she had seen, etc.  we spoke with the department of health, and kept her away from other kids and adults she had not been into contact with.  they wanted me to monitor symptoms, but i did not have to stop work.  it was a long two weeks, but fortunately today everyone is fine.  my point with all of this is that there will be incidences, but they have to be managed properly like this on was.  the world can not stay shut, because we really don't know how long this is going to go on.  should it be a free for all?  of course not, but if the numbers are kept low, and guidelines are followed, there is no reason to not move forward with life imo.

[Big Blitz]

Just now, MJS said:

Wow. They went down because they got hit so hard and now there is a significant portion of the population with antibodies.

 

 

 

And now their "memory T Cell" function has been exposed to it to help fight off or even prevent future infection.

 

If my summer studies in physiology and biology are correct.  

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

More than a hundred kids died of the flu last year. We should have cancelled school years ago.

I love the smell of logical fallacies.

[Bill Lewes]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

Very well sourced and researched article authored by 4 professors at Harvard's School of Public Health PLenty of links to studies to substantiate claims views.

 

May have to copy and paste link in incognito mode to get past paywall

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07/20/opinion/listen-science-reopen-schools/

 

From the Boston Globe opinion piece (to be fair these authors are professors at the Harvard school of public health and, though obvious credible, view the issue though a particular lens):    
 

"We are not advocating a return to schools as usual. Schools must aggressively implement proven risk reduction strategies. A layered approach should include rapid testing and contact tracing, physical distancing when possible, mask-wearing with breaks built into the day, frequent hand hygiene, and well-ventilated spaces. Districts should consider adding tents and trailers and converting gyms, cafeteria, and libraries to expand learning spaces. Staggering arrival and dismissal times and prohibiting parents from entering schools will limit one of the highest risks — having large numbers of adults in indoor spaces."
 

Additionally, if you link to the risk reduction strategies you will see a document suggesting exactly what I've been talking about - multiple ideas that are cost or structurally prohibitive that won't receive the necessary funding, community support or professional/political leadership required to implement successfully (please check pg 31 for an example). 

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I love the smell of logical fallacies.

If you're gonna play, "what about the dozen kids" card, then why can't I ask why you were okay with sending your brat to public school as 100-150 kids died of flu every year? What about them?

[quinnearlysghost88]

The nfl is not happening this year. Go get some good camping gear, buy a nice grill and enjoy your fall Sundays with your family and friends. 

[PonyBoy]

4 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Maybe the Marlins won't have enough people to field a team and since there is no minor league baseball this year they can't call up 12 guys to fill the roster.

So... You're saying I have a chance? LOL!

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

If you're gonna play, "what about the dozen kids" card, then why can't I ask why you were okay with sending your brat to public school as 100-150 kids died of flu every year? What about them?

I don't even have kids and I never will. As a general rule, I don't even like them, but I don't want them to die if it can be prevented.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

I don't even have kids and I never will. As a general rule, I don't even like them, but I don't want them to die if it can be prevented.

Well then until we have a cure for the flu, school should be out of the question. Let's start an interest group.

Edited July 27, 2020 by FireChans

[Billl]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

More than a hundred kids died of the flu last year. We should have cancelled school years ago.

You understand that comparing what a disease does when there is a lockdown in place versus what a different disease does under normal circumstances is intellectually dishonest, right?  If we knew that COVID would cause roughly as many deaths as the flu, I think most people would be okay with opening everything.  That just isn’t the case, though.

 

People were comparing this to the flu months ago.  The flu kills around 40,000 Americans annually.  COVID has quadrupled that in 4 months even with all of the social distancing and other precautions that have been taken.  This is nothing like the flu.

8 minutes ago, Bill Lewes said:

 

From the Boston Globe opinion piece (to be fair these authors are professors at the Harvard school of public health and, though obvious credible, view the issue though a particular lens):    
 

"We are not advocating a return to schools as usual. Schools must aggressively implement proven risk reduction strategies. A layered approach should include rapid testing and contact tracing, physical distancing when possible, mask-wearing with breaks built into the day, frequent hand hygiene, and well-ventilated spaces. Districts should consider adding tents and trailers and converting gyms, cafeteria, and libraries to expand learning spaces. Staggering arrival and dismissal times and prohibiting parents from entering schools will limit one of the highest risks — having large numbers of adults in indoor spaces."
 

Additionally, if you link to the risk reduction strategies you will see a document suggesting exactly what I've been talking about - multiple ideas that are cost or structurally prohibitive that won't receive the necessary funding, community support or professional/political leadership required to implement successfully (please check pg 31 for an example). 

 

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

[FireChans]

Just now, Billl said:

You understand that comparing what a disease does when there is a lockdown in place versus what a different disease does under normal circumstances is intellectually dishonest, right?  If we knew that COVID would cause roughly as many deaths as the flu, I think most people would be okay with opening everything.  That just isn’t the case, though.

 

People were comparing this to the flu months ago.  The flu kills around 40,000 Americans annually.  COVID has quadrupled that in 4 months even with all of the social distancing and other precautions that have been taken.  This is nothing like the flu.

You're exactly right. The flu has killed way more kids.

[BillsFan2313]

4 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Maybe the Marlins won't have enough people to field a team and since there is no minor league baseball this year they can't call up 12 guys to fill the roster.

 60 man player pool

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Well then until we have a cure for the flu, school should be out of the question. Let's start an interest group.

You're free to wage that campaign, but we aren't discussing solving the flu here.

2 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Brilliant.

If that's what passes for brilliant, RIP our education system.

Edited July 27, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[FireChans]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

You're free to wage that campaign, but we aren't discussing solving the flu here.

We need to man. Almost 200 kids died last year. No one cares. Teachers go to work, schools open, and kids die.

 

COVID in schools is the real distraction from the pandemic that's killing our kids.  Teachers should learn to code.  Schools shouldn't reopen. Not until there's a cure.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, FireChans said:

We need to man. Almost 200 kids died last year. No one cares. Teachers go to work, schools open, and kids die.

 

COVID in schools is the real distraction from the pandemic that's killing our kids.  Teachers should learn to code.  Schools shouldn't reopen. Not until there's a cure.

Good luck with your campaign. I think you'll find it a difficult one.

[Billl]

Remember when we put the entire country on lockdown for 4 months to stop the flu and it still killed 1,000 people a day for 4 months straight while cases continued to increase exponentially?

[WEATHER DOT COM]

6 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Brilliant.

 

You should see what that guy thinks of teachers to begin with. Yikes

[MJS]

13 minutes ago, Billl said:

You understand that comparing what a disease does when there is a lockdown in place versus what a different disease does under normal circumstances is intellectually dishonest, right?  If we knew that COVID would cause roughly as many deaths as the flu, I think most people would be okay with opening everything.  That just isn’t the case, though.

 

People were comparing this to the flu months ago.  The flu kills around 40,000 Americans annually.  COVID has quadrupled that in 4 months even with all of the social distancing and other precautions that have been taken.  This is nothing like the flu.

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Are flu cases down due to the lockdown? They should be if masks and social distancing work as advertised.

 

My guess is the flu will be just as common and just as deadly regardless of what people do. But that's the pessimist in me, I think.

 

Nothing that I have seen has shown to seriously impact the spread of disease except immunity. COVID-19 will be around until we all build up some immunity. The goal is to try to not overwhelm the hospitals, which is why we are doing all these unproven things.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

We need to man. Almost 200 kids died last year. No one cares. Teachers go to work, schools open, and kids die.

 

COVID in schools is the real distraction from the pandemic that's killing our kids.  Teachers should learn to code.  Schools shouldn't reopen. Not until there's a cure.

Very few things will ever be 100% safe. As a society, we have to determine where to draw the line between risk and reward. To most people, keeping schools closed for Covid-19 vs the flu ...the line seems to be between them.  Your very linear argument seems to be ignoring that.

 So why would many prefer to keep schools closed for Covid and not the  yearly flu? Everything we know so far says Covid has a higher hospitilization rate, higher death rate, more long term issues that arrive in people who recover from it, and there is no vacccine for Covid (if a huge, wide spread outbreak of the flu occurred, we have several vaccines available that could be administered in the community)

Edited July 27, 2020 by mjd1001

[billsfan89]

18 minutes ago, Billl said:

Remember when we put the entire country on lockdown for 4 months to stop the flu and it still killed 1,000 people a day for 4 months straight while cases continued to increase exponentially?

 

Remember how the countries that stuck to a lockdown and didn't turn wearing a comfortable piece of cloth on your face a political issue have a lot lower cases and are now opening up their economies? 

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

Are flu cases down due to the lockdown? They should be if masks and social distancing work as advertised.

 

My guess is the flu will be just as common and just as deadly regardless of what people do. But that's the pessimist in me, I think.

 

Nothing that I have seen has shown to seriously impact the spread of disease except immunity. COVID-19 will be around until we all build up some immunity. The goal is to try to not overwhelm the hospitals, which is why we are doing all these unproven things.

 

Why was it that the nations that took the virus most seriously are having the best results? The EU vs. USA numbers are alarming. People are acting like there isn't a real world example of an approach working better than science denial.

[DrDawkinstein]

31 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You're exactly right. The flu has killed way more kids.

 

There have been more Studebakers made than Teslas, so Studebaker is a more popular car right now.

 

Same logic.

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Presuming we'll ever even have a vaccine seems very optimistic given there are only around 20 viral vaccines. I think we need to put out the fire first, and then worry about moving back into the house. When our case count starts to look more like Europe, it'll be more appropriate to make those things a priority.

 

I'm worried about that.  Reinfection might tell the story there.  I wonder if the "vaccine" will end up being a seasonal thing, kind of like a flu shot.  Or if the vaccine will actually be shot that we get two or three or four times a year that helps as to avoid, but doesn't completely insulate us from, COVID. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

There have been more Studebakers made than Teslas, so Studebaker is a more popular car right now.

 

Same logic.

[Captain Caveman]

5 hours ago, SmokinES3 said:

We made it one series... Certain political factions will have this shutdown ASAP. Fun while it lasted...

Yeah, political factions, like people who don't want to risk lives for a game.

[Arkady Renko]

21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

There have been more Studebakers made than Teslas, so Studebaker is a more popular car right now.

 

Same logic.

 

I think he is saying that year to date more children have died from the flu than COVID. I suspect this is true, but am willing to be proven wrong.  It certainly is deadlier than the flu overall.  

 

I see this on children under 14:  "Recent CDC data shows a total of six confirmed COVID-19 deaths of children under the age of 14. And as the virus spreads further we'll most likely see more."  https://www.babycenter.com/0_coronavirus-update-covid-19-infections-in-children-less-seve_40006924.bc

 

And this on typical flu deaths for children:  Even though the reported number of deaths during the 2017-2018 flu season was 187, CDC’s mathematical models that account for the underreporting of flu-related deaths in children estimate the actual number was closer to 600. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/children.htm

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Arkady Renko

[par73]

MLB couldn't get through one weekend. And the NFL thinks they can actually play this year?

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

You're exactly right. The flu has killed way more kids.

I don't believe he said that.  This virus has thankfully spared the young and schools must reopen based off the research.  However, this virus is highly contagious and is much more deadly for the elderly and those with preexisting conditions.  You saw that over the past week with deaths spiking in FL, TX, CA, and AZ to the point where we were averaging over a thousand a day again.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Doc Brown

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

I don't believe he said that.  This virus has thankfully spared the young and schools must reopen based off the research.  However, this virus is highly contagious and is much more deadly for the elderly and those with preexisting conditions.  You saw that over the past week with deaths spiking in FL, TX, CA, and AZ to the point where we were averaging over a thousand a day again.

 

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/child-hospitalizations-from-covid-19-rise-23-in-florida-weeks-ahead-of-school-reopenings/

 

Child hospitalizations from COVID-19 rise 23% in Florida weeks ahead of school reopenings

Quote

On July 16, the state had a total of 23,170 children ages 17 and under who had tested positive since the beginning of the pandemic, according to the Florida Department of Health. By July 24, that number jumped to 31,150.

 

That’s a 34% increase in new cases among children in eight days.

 

And more children in Florida are requiring hospitalization. As of July 16, 246 children had been hospitalized with coronavirus. By July 24, that number had jumped to 303.

 

That’s a 23% increase in child Covid-19 hospitalizations in eight days.

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

If you're gonna play, "what about the dozen kids" card, then why can't I ask why you were okay with sending your brat to public school as 100-150 kids died of flu every year? What about them?

 

From what I've read what makes everyone more concerned with Covid compared to seasonal flu is that it's much more contagious and easier to catch and spread.  In addition we have had years of dealing with the flu and have a better idea on how to treat it.  We're also much earlier in the cycle than seasonal flu.  The hard hit areas have only been that way for maybe 2 to 3 months, then it jumps someplace else because very little to stop it's spread.  By the end of 2020 at the rate wer're going likely will be at the same if not higher levels than seasonal flu.  I just found one site that stated there were 30 deaths of kids under the age of 15 and that was only thru July 14th.    Seasonal flu for whatever reason dies off in the warmer weather, believe that was something Trump had a hunch would happen too with Covid.

 

Also when comparing it to the seasonal flu how come there were never reports of hospitals and ICU's overflowing in bad areas?  I've yet to hear an explanation to that from everyone who says "this is just like the flu"!  That was the idea behind flattening the curve, yes will still be bad, but at manageable levels as opposed to places that can't handle it.  Again for whatever reason the flu seams to follow a much flatter spread so can keep up better. or just isn't as contagious, maybe because there's already a vaccine out there.

[iinii]

4 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

Maybe its time to get, you know, priorities in order and shut down sports altogether and get this damn virus under control. And we can, you know, come together as 1 and fight this so we can all resume normalcy sooner. Putting band aids on this will not slow the spread at all.

The only problem with your position is that, this country can not come together as one. It is too fractured, too individualistic and too competitive to ever be united. Yeah I know it is called the United States but that ain’t the reality. Never mind what is going on the streets; take a look at this board. It is split on just about everything. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Good luck with your campaign. I think you'll find it a difficult one.

 

That poster makes a valid counter-argument in my eyes.... not as a direct comparison to COVID, which has no vaccine, but to shine the light on the hypocrisy (or lack of realism) among the crowd that shouts down those who want to re-open schools as not caring about children.   

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by SCBills