Scott7975 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 5 hours ago, snamsnoops said: Fred Jackson or Kyle Williams with Fitzmagic honorable mention This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Not Jarious Byrd for sure. I had to look at Wikepedia to see who he was........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 3 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Was PFF the website that said Duck was better than Allen? That’s not what they actually said. It was a devil’s advocate argument where one guy had to come up with a reason that the Steelers would win the Bills-Steelers game that week. He said that all he could come up with was that Duck had played a little better than Allen the last couple of weeks. But don’t let that stop a convenient narrative. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Not saying Stevie was bad. But yes, I am saying that he wasn't our MVP of the decade in any way, shape, form, method, scheme, means or manner. Or process. He wasn't even the MVP of any of those Bills seasons. Fitzy for one was far more valuable. Probably Kyle Williams too. Freddy, maybe. Hell, Dareus was in his first three years and looked like he was going to be a pillar of that team for a decade, it wasn't till his 5th year that Dareus lost the pass rush part of his game. For a stretch of a few years, fans of other teams playing the Bills were worried about Johnson and nobody else. If you could stop him, you were probably going to win easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, FireChans said: Not to mention, Fitz was here 30% of the decade. Tyrod 30%. Stevie only started for 4 years. Otherwise, nailed it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan_in_tx Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 11 hours ago, JetsFan20 said: Most Valuable Bills of the decade per PFF WAR 1. Tyrod Taylor 2. Ryan Fitzpatrick 3. Jairus Byrd 4. Micah Hyde 5. Stevie Johnson No Jerry Hughes? I'll take that guy on my team any day. Guy is targeted by refs most of the time but always comes with effort. Motor never stops! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Blokestradamus said: I'd be way more concerned if they threw out Ruvell Martin and Geoff Hangartner. Sills V belongs at around 3 on this list they made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said: Misleading wording. It's not really MVP, it's most valuable WAR (wins above replacement) So it's the guys with the biggest gap between them and the guy they followed. VERY far from an MVP list. This isn't quite right either. "Wins above replacement" means a generic replacement level player, not the person that player actually replaced. They're not grading Tyrod Taylor against EJ Manuel if that's what you took it to mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: That’s not what they actually said. It was a devil’s advocate argument where one guy had to come up with a reason that the Steelers would win the Bills-Steelers game that week. He said that all he could come up with was that Duck had played a little better than Allen the last couple of weeks. But don’t let that stop a convenient narrative. This is what was actually actually said 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 somebody has to say it. This decade isnt over yet. It still has 2020 to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, maddenboy said: somebody has to say it. This decade isnt over yet. It still has 2020 to go. Sure, if you think they started with Year 0. ***leaving this up for posterity to see how posting hungover is dangerous*** Edited May 30, 2020 by GoBills808 original comment was too ridiculous to delete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Kyle was a very good player and great for Buffalo. But he was at the center of some historically bad run defenses. Ethan, I don’t disagree, but he was 1 of 11 players. It takes a unit to stop a run offense. Kyle was a warrior for his years here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Sure, if you think they started with Year 0. ***leaving this up for posterity to see how posting hungover is dangerous*** No. If the first year was zero, then the tenth year would be 9 and the last day of the first decade would be December 31, xx09. The last year of this decade would be December 31, 2019. But since they started with year 1, the tenth year is year 10. The second decade started january 1, xx11 Edited May 30, 2020 by maddenboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: This is what was actually actually said I heard the full discussion on their podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Fred Jackson was the only player worth watching some of those years. He was often the only guy who came to play. I'd probably go with him. Kyle Williams was awesome, but I think it's hard to be a team MVP as an interior defensive lineman. Tyrod Taylor makes some sense, even though I know he has his detractors. He was a good game manager when that's what we needed. When we needed him to step up and take more risks he wasn't able to do it. Though it ended poorly, Mario Williams was a dominant edge rusher with a few years of elite production. He should be considered. And of course LeSean McCoy had some good years here, but I don't think he had elite production as a Bill. His best years were in Philly. 2 hours ago, maddenboy said: somebody has to say it. This decade isnt over yet. It still has 2020 to go. I would assume 2020 is part of the next decade, with 2010 being the first year of the last decade. Right? 2010 through 2019 is 10 years if you count 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, BarleyNY said: That’s not what they actually said. It was a devil’s advocate argument where one guy had to come up with a reason that the Steelers would win the Bills-Steelers game that week. He said that all he could come up with was that Duck had played a little better than Allen the last couple of weeks. But don’t let that stop a convenient narrative. I seem to recall it different than that, but you are probably correct since I wouldn’t give them a click. Personally I don’t value anything from that site positive or negative. I get some of you do, you are welcome to it. Seems to me from what people post here about PFF is they try to sensationalize to get clicks or focus’(pun intended) on stats to a fault. I get younger guys and I would bet most who didn’t play football enjoy it. I enjoy watching games with my eyes and listening to guys I know and trust to pick up on things I missed or to give me another avenue of thought. Edited May 30, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: I seem to recall it different than that, but you are probably correct since I wouldn’t give them a click. Personally I don’t value anything from that site positive or negative. I get some of you do, you are welcome to it. Seems to me from what people post here about PFF is they try to sensationalize to get clicks or focus’(pun intended) on stats to a fault. I get younger guys and I would bet most who didn’t play football enjoy it. I enjoy watching games with my eyes and listening to guys I know and trust to pick up on things I missed or to give me another avenue of thought. It's hard to believe that PFF "sensationalizes" its articles to get a rise out of Bills fans. As click bait, I doubt fans from any other team would bother to click on that article...at all. They have a formula for WAR. They applied it to Bills players for a certain time frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It's hard to believe that PFF "sensationalizes" its articles to get a rise out of Bills fans. As click bait, I doubt fans from any other team would bother to click on that article...at all. They have a formula for WAR. They applied it to Bills players for a certain time frame. This topic probably isn’t to get a rise out of Bills fans. Posting an argument about who would you take Trubisky or Allen today was clear as day trolling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 This sure brightened my day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 War huh, good god ya'll. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Kyle Williams period 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: It's hard to believe that PFF "sensationalizes" its articles to get a rise out of Bills fans. As click bait, I doubt fans from any other team would bother to click on that article...at all. They have a formula for WAR. They applied it to Bills players for a certain time frame. Ah, ok. What exactly is WAR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Twas a bad couple of decades... Terrance Pegula is the MVP for 2010-2020 Booze was the MVP for 2000-2010, as it helps me forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Ah, ok. What exactly is WAR? http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Eager_PFF_WAR.pdf What is it good for? Absolutely nothin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 21 hours ago, Troll Toll said: I’d say it is already either Josh or Tredavious White with an honorable mention to Fred Jackson. Allen hasn't even learned to play well yet and he's MVP of the decade????? He certainly leads the league in number of apologists. No question about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Fred Jackson wasn't even top 5? What a joke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 1:16 AM, JetsFan20 said: Most Valuable Bills of the decade per PFF WAR 1. Tyrod Taylor 2. Ryan Fitzpatrick 3. Jairus Byrd 4. Micah Hyde 5. Stevie Johnson I understand Tyrod being on there since he was the QB when they ended the drought. And stevie was an electric player and personality. But kyle williams is the answer. He was the glue that held together a (at times) shaky defense that was otherwise very good. Why he’s not up there in the “top 5” makes no sense. 1 hour ago, GreggTX said: Allen hasn't even learned to play well yet and he's MVP of the decade????? He certainly leads the league in number of apologists. No question about that. This post is just inviting the apologists in. Ballsy. I agree with you but prepare to get hammered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Eager_PFF_WAR.pdf What is it good for? Absolutely nothin I didn’t click on it because honestly I don’t want to visit a PFF site. Is there a reason you Didn’t explain it in your own words? Edited May 31, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: I didn’t click on it because honestly I don’t want to visit a PFF site. Is there a reason you Didn’t explain it in your own words? It's not a PFF site---it's the premiere sports analytics conference held annually at MIT. The reason I didn't explain it in my own words is obvious: it is much better explained by those who created/use it. So go ahead and click...it won't hurt you to learn. I promise.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just now, Mr. WEO said: It's not a PFF site---it's the premiere sports analytics conference held annually at MIT. The reason I didn't explain it in my own words is obvious: it is much better explained by those who created/use it. So go ahead and click...it won't hurt you to learn. I promise.... Nah, I am not into MIT explaining football to me. I won’t actually learn anything from it. The fact YOU can’t explain it in simple terms means it’s a bunch of numbers people use to try and prove points. You have a lot to learn about communication, and relationships. I hope it’s just your online self that needs this wake. Have a blessed day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Nah, I am not into MIT explaining football to me. I won’t actually learn anything from it. The fact YOU can’t explain it in simple terms means it’s a bunch of numbers people use to try and prove points. You have a lot to learn about communication, and relationships. I hope it’s just your online self that needs this wake. Have a blessed day. Dude, just say that you're too dumb to wrap your head around a concept. Communicate better, boo ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: Dude, just say that you're too dumb to wrap your head around a concept. Communicate better, boo ? Ah, calling people dumb because they don’t agree with your beliefs. Good morning to you and have a good one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said: Ah, calling people dumb because they don’t agree with your beliefs. Good morning to you and have a good one. Learning isn't a belief. Just tell WEO that the intellectual evidence he provided you intimidates you. Bloody MIT and their book learning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: Learning isn't a belief. Just tell WEO that the intellectual evidence he provided you intimidates you. Bloody MIT and their book learning. You don’t know me at all. You have zero idea of who I am or my education. Learning isn’t a belief but to think stats or books can explain football is a fools errand. It just is. If it was so easy to put some data into a computer through a complicated equation everyone would do it. You can’t just pick players off their physical stats or stats from certain games and say he is better than him. Emotions matter, situations matter, relationships matter. Sorry, but you are wrong to pick on me about learning. I may have as much and maybe more education than you in many different areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 48 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Nah, I am not into MIT explaining football to me. I won’t actually learn anything from it. The fact YOU can’t explain it in simple terms means it’s a bunch of numbers people use to try and prove points. You have a lot to learn about communication, and relationships. I hope it’s just your online self that needs this wake. Have a blessed day. Holy cow. People and their damn habit of using numbers to try to prove points! Where does it all end??? Anyway, the point of all of this (now long lost) is that the article cited by OP is not about who the best player was for the Bills during that decade, but who had the highest Wins Above Replacement (replacement of another player of average value). The MIT paper actually was an evaluation of PFF's WAR. They found it value for evaluating player value. Feel free to post your opposing analysis of WAR right here. I can can be persuaded by a solid argument. Take a swing at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 4:59 AM, Thurman#1 said: Stevie Johnson? Good grief. Most valuable, as opposed to best yeah? So, it makes sense it's QBs, the way that the NFL MVP is pretty much always a QB. But Stevie Johnson? Yeah, not seeing that. Isn’t he the only Bills WR to have three straight 1,000 yard seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 5 hours ago, JoPoy88 said: But kyle williams is the answer. He was the glue that held together a (at times) shaky defense that was otherwise very good. Why he’s not up there in the “top 5” makes no sense. He probably should be in the top 5 simply for longevity, above average skill and being a team leader. But I don't recall many of the defenses he was on as very good. During his 13 year career Bills fielded a bottom half of the league defense in 9 out of those 13 years. They ranked #4 in 2014 and #2 in 2018. Mario Williams and the emergence of Jerry Hughes was a big reason why the 2014 defense was great. And the last two seasons has been due in a large part to the emergence of our secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Isn’t he the only Bills WR to have three straight 1,000 yard seasons? True. But a pretty meaningless stat. He basically reached 1000 yards and no more. Steve Johnson: 2010: 1,073 2011: 1,004 2012: 1,046 Eric Moulds: 1998: 1,368 1999: 994 2000: 1,326 2001: 904 2002: 1,292 Moulds was 6 yards shy of putting together three straight 1000 yard seasons in which two would have been 1300+ yard seasons. Even Lee Evans racked up 35 more yards than Steve Johnson over a three season span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: True. But a pretty meaningless stat. He basically reached 1000 yards and no more. Steve Johnson: 2010: 1,073 2011: 1,004 2012: 1,046 Eric Moulds: 1998: 1,368 1999: 994 2000: 1,326 2001: 904 2002: 1,292 Moulds was 6 yards shy of putting together three straight 1000 yard seasons in which two would have been 1300+ yard seasons. Even Lee Evans racked up 35 more yards than Steve Johnson over a three season span. Moulds missed 2 games that 1999 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Moulds missed 2 games that 1999 season. Good catch. I missed that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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