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Love that they doubled down on WR in this draft


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Feeling very good about this draft over all

 

But one of the things I was worried about going into this draft is that one of two things was going to happen

 

- The bills were not going to take a WR after the first 3 to 4 were off the board......especially given that we had basically made our 1st and a later pick pick into Diggs...then we took a DE (even though AJ is a promising one) I was REALLY nervous we were going to call it a day on WR

 

or

 

- I thought Beane....in his past history of trading up....was going to use late draft capital to move up and get guys he likes....no Beane has been a pretty darn good drafter even when he did this.......but this was a epic WR class where I was hearing like 40 WR's could be draftable guys.....our WR core did not have good size in its starting group.......and sometimes it takes a year for a WR to develop anyway.

 

but....much to my happiness......we DOUBLED DOWN on wide receiver.......and not only did we double down....we doubled down on BIG receivers.

 

:)

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I said many times prior to the draft that I wanted the Bills to select 2 WR's.

 

Several people on this board chided me, stating that "What good does drafting a #4 & 5 WR help the Bills."

 

It was always about the big picture. Brown & Beasley getting into their 30's and also only signed for just 2 more seasons. Not to mention the fact that this WR group was loaded with talent.

 

Honestly, did anyone else here feel confident going into the season with Foster, WIlliams, McKenzie & Roberts being our reserve group?

 

Our WR unit just got a lot better overall. Thank you, Mr. Beane. GO BILLS!!! 

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11 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I said many times prior to the draft that I wanted the Bills to select 2 WR's.

 

Several people on this board chided me, stating that "What good does drafting a #4 & 5 WR help the Bills."

 

It was always about the big picture. Brown & Beasley getting into their 30's and also only signed for just 2 more seasons. Not to mention the fact that this WR group was loaded with talent.

 

Honestly, did anyone else here feel confident going into the season with Foster, WIlliams, McKenzie & Roberts being our reserve group?

 

Our WR unit just got a lot better overall. Thank you, Mr. Beane. GO BILLS!!! 

PPl need to understand that often times it takes a year for WR's to develop which is why drafting them this year was so important......

 

To me its like our TE situaiton....we drafted TWO tight ends last year in Knox and Sweeney

 

Also liike our LB situation......we addressed it with a vet....IR'd Joseph (which is like getting a extra pick) and I imagine they are high on Dawson

 

You have to give those guys a chance to develop while there are veterans in front of them to play.....then as the season progresses and they start earning theri reps

 

The guys I expect to see the most time this year

 

Esparza (in a rotation)

Moss (in a rotation)

Possibly Bass

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Beane spoke about adding talent and increased competition. 

 

I love that we added two guys. Neither really jump off the page for me but both could hopefully develop into a WR3 at some point. 

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^ Yes.  The new guys would likely  beat out Foster, Duke and McKenzie in a “normal” training camp and pre-season. But this one will be different and WR is not easy to learn.  
 

We get 2 more roster spots going as it goes up to 55.  I think we know that QB3 is Fromm, do we add a CB/WR/ O/L. ? 

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Pump the brakes there fellas.  Last year they carried six WR. The first four are set - the trio of Diggs, Brown, and Beasley with Roberts set as a great return guy.  McKenzie is the gadget player that Daboll loves that is not in the skill set of the rookies.

 

That leaves one roster spot that presumably will go to Davis.  He will fill the Duke Williams role.  Foster will be gone.  And Hodgins may make the PS or tweak his hamstring in training camp so they can put him on IR for a year.  

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1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Pump the brakes there fellas.  Last year they carried six WR. The first four are set - the trio of Diggs, Brown, and Beasley with Roberts set as a great return guy.  McKenzie is the gadget player that Daboll loves that is not in the skill set of the rookies.

 

That leaves one roster spot that presumably will go to Davis.  He will fill the Duke Williams role.  Foster will be gone.  And Hodgins may make the PS or tweak his hamstring in training camp so they can put him on IR for a year.  


Or be roster player #55.  

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17 minutes ago, DJB said:

Beane spoke about adding talent and increased competition. 

 

I love that we added two guys. Neither really jump off the page for me but both could hopefully develop into a WR3 at some point. 

 
gabriel was out running routes 30 minutes after he was done with draft interviews (about an hour after being drafted)

 

hodgins led all wrs in 20 sprint time and drop %. Not deep speed but at 6’4” with great hands he’ll be a red zone threat

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37 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

That leaves one roster spot that presumably will go to Davis.  He will fill the Duke Williams role.  Foster will be gone.  And Hodgins may make the PS or tweak his hamstring in training camp so they can put him on IR for a year.  

 

Neither rookie may make it onto the roster this year. Why does that "pump the brakes"? There's an old adage that it takes 3 years for a WR to develop. Beane's moves tend to have a defining characteristic of making sure he isn't locked into doing something he doesn't want to do. In 2-3 years those 'top 3' are likely to be moving on and/or due big pay raises. Drafting WRs before that means he won't be forced to hand out a contract he doesn't want to..

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17 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Neither rookie may make it onto the roster this year. Why does that "pump the brakes"? There's an old adage that it takes 3 years for a WR to develop. Beane's moves tend to have a defining characteristic of making sure he isn't locked into doing something he doesn't want to do. In 2-3 years those 'top 3' are likely to be moving on and/or due big pay raises. Drafting WRs before that means he won't be forced to hand out a contract he doesn't want to..

I think they both make the roster this year. Rosters are expanded, 4th rounders (Gabe) don’t get cut to PS and I think Hoskins would be grabbed but another team if moved to PS. Limited training camp will hurt them though

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11 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Neither rookie may make it onto the roster this year. Why does that "pump the brakes"? There's an old adage that it takes 3 years for a WR to develop. Beane's moves tend to have a defining characteristic of making sure he isn't locked into doing something he doesn't want to do. In 2-3 years those 'top 3' are likely to be moving on and/or due big pay raises. Drafting WRs before that means he won't be forced to hand out a contract he doesn't want to..

 

In fairness, Beane hasn't had any team draftees up for an extension yet.  Tre White figures to cash in, but he'll be the first.  

 

I disagree about receivers needing 2-3 years in the NFL to develop.  Plenty of rookies, even those in the 2nd, 3rd and even later rounds have produced out of the gate.  7 receivers after the 50th pick last year recorded more than 500 yards receiving and that was considered a weak class.  This year's class likely has to develop without a full off-season, but features a LOT more talent.  

 

I've read through coverage of Buffalo's two WR picks, Davis (4th) and Hodgins (6th).  Ultimately, they are the bigger framed types McD seems to have clamored for last season.  They're looking for a possession type and don't really have anyone on the roster resembling that aside from Duke Williams.  

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1 hour ago, Bob in STL said:

^ Yes.  The new guys would likely  beat out Foster, Duke and McKenzie in a “normal” training camp and pre-season. But this one will be different and WR is not easy to learn.  
 

We get 2 more roster spots going as it goes up to 55.  I think we know that QB3 is Fromm, do we add a CB/WR/ O/L. ? 

I think one of these two rookies makes the main roster and the other the PS. Still like to see Duke make it but I don't see Easley, McCloud, McKenzie or Foster surviving. Roberts is safe as the FT returner. As far as the draft goes, Diggs was the DRAFT. He was the prize and everyone else just gravy.

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J

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I think one of these two rookies makes the main roster and the other the PS. Still like to see Duke make it but I don't see Easley, McCloud, McKenzie or Foster surviving. Roberts is safe as the FT returner. As far as the draft goes, Diggs was the DRAFT. He was the prize and everyone else just gravy.

I could see McKenzie making it but not Duke. The two draft picks give us the size Duke has, equal speed but with much better hands. I don’t think Roberts is 100% safe either. The other thing to consider is injuries can occur 

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Reading between the lines I think they would have picked a receiver at 54 if there had still been one they liked. Beane said after the draft there were no receivers left at 54 that they had a 2nd round grade on, which he said was unexpected. He also said Hodgins was rated lower than someone else that was available at that spot but he took Hodgins anyways because he liked his upside. No doubt in my mind he came into this draft wanting to draft 2 receivers no matter what. He recognized it as a good draft to add some much needed talent to the offense.

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1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

I think they both make the roster this year. Rosters are expanded, 4th rounders (Gabe) don’t get cut to PS and I think Hoskins would be grabbed but another team if moved to PS. Limited training camp will hurt them though

 

I think they have a good chance, but ultimately it doesn't matter. They were drafted to avoid what is happening with the raiders or the jets this season. They're counting on rookies to come in and be #1. It's pretty rare that succeeds. It's already 50/50 and even less to get success the 1st season. Given that either Josh pans out and needs a contract or he doesn't and a new QB is going to need solid weapons...drafting receivers in a deep draft (with the bonus of expanded rosters possibly making getting them on the roster easier) is a savvy move.

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1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

J

I could see McKenzie making it but not Duke. The two draft picks give us the size Duke has, equal speed but with much better hands. I don’t think Roberts is 100% safe either. The other thing to consider is injuries can occur 

Good point about their size. If Duke makes that catch he's a legend?  But he may be gone. If Davis and Hodgins can at least catch the damn ball (better than Zay & Kelvin) then there in. By the way there are no reliable return guys other than Roberts. 

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I heard that the Bills tried to trade up for Devin Duvernay but couldn’t get a deal done. That likely is how we ended up with Davis (who I like too). Davis will be able to stretch the field and insulate them against an injury on the outside. 
 

Hodgins is a big body that was a decent shot at that point in the draft. He’s a jump ball guy. I’m on record as saying that his lack of separation would be an issue at the next level. He has a chance to make the roster but likely ends up on the PS IMO. If he makes the team he will be primarily used in the red zone. Hodgins is a good candidate to be one of the PS guys to see some game action (although I still don’t totally understand how guys 54 & 55 work). 
 

I think that the roster will look like this at WR:

- Diggs

- Brown 

- Beasley

- Davis
- McKenzie

- Duke

 

Roberts return specialist 

Hodgins PS

 

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3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I heard that the Bills tried to trade up for Devin Duvernay but couldn’t get a deal done. That likely is how we ended up with Davis (who I like too). Davis will be able to stretch the field and insulate them against an injury on the outside. 
 

Hodgins is a big body that was a decent shot at that point in the draft. He’s a jump ball guy. I’m on record as saying that his lack of separation would be an issue at the next level. He has a chance to make the roster but likely ends up on the PS IMO. If he makes the team he will be primarily used in the red zone. Hodgins is a good candidate to be one of the PS guys to see some game action (although I still don’t totally understand how guys 54 & 55 work). 
 

I think that the roster will look like this at WR:

- Diggs

- Brown 

- Beasley

- Davis
- McKenzie

- Duke

 

Roberts return specialist 

Hodgins PS

 

Can't see Duke making team.  Roberts is backup slot and gadget guy so he is 6th WR

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2 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Can't see Duke making team.  Roberts is backup slot and gadget guy so he is 6th WR

I think that they keep a 7th this year and one less TE or OL. The Bills are going to keep Duke or Hodgins as the “big bodied guy.” I don’t think both though. 

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10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Pump the brakes there fellas.  Last year they carried six WR. The first four are set - the trio of Diggs, Brown, and Beasley with Roberts set as a great return guy.  McKenzie is the gadget player that Daboll loves that is not in the skill set of the rookies.

 

That leaves one roster spot that presumably will go to Davis.  He will fill the Duke Williams role.  Foster will be gone.  And Hodgins may make the PS or tweak his hamstring in training camp so they can put him on IR for a year.  

?

We all know schools have been shut down, but it’s no excuse for not knowing WTH you’re talking about.

?‍♂️

 

Quiz: 53 + 2 = ?

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43 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

?

We all know schools have been shut down, but it’s no excuse for not knowing WTH you’re talking about.

?‍♂️

 

Quiz: 53 + 2 = ?

 

The +2 are PS players that can be carried on game day only.  They're still practice squad and thus must clear waivers, and are free to sign with other teams to be on their active roster.

52 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that they keep a 7th this year and one less TE or OL. The Bills are going to keep Duke or Hodgins as the “big bodied guy.” I don’t think both though. 

 

7 is tough on the 53 - when you probably only need 5 on a gameday.  Remember we may need to keep 3 QBs on the 53 as well.

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6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I heard that the Bills tried to trade up for Devin Duvernay but couldn’t get a deal done. That likely is how we ended up with Davis (who I like too). Davis will be able to stretch the field and insulate them against an injury on the outside. 
 

Hodgins is a big body that was a decent shot at that point in the draft. He’s a jump ball guy. I’m on record as saying that his lack of separation would be an issue at the next level. He has a chance to make the roster but likely ends up on the PS IMO. If he makes the team he will be primarily used in the red zone. Hodgins is a good candidate to be one of the PS guys to see some game action (although I still don’t totally understand how guys 54 & 55 work). 
 

I think that the roster will look like this at WR:

- Diggs

- Brown 

- Beasley

- Davis
- McKenzie

- Duke

 

Roberts return specialist 

Hodgins PS

 

 

I feel like Duke sealed his fate in the playoff game.  If you're not going to be a separation guy (which he never will), you better catch everything you get your hands on.  I'll be mildly surprised if he makes the team this year.

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26 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I feel like Duke sealed his fate in the playoff game.  If you're not going to be a separation guy (which he never will), you better catch everything you get your hands on.  I'll be mildly surprised if he makes the team this year.

It’s going to be him or Hodgins imo. I really think that they will keep one of the 2 big guys. At this point I lean Duke but that could change.

41 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

The +2 are PS players that can be carried on game day only.  They're still practice squad and thus must clear waivers, and are free to sign with other teams to be on their active roster.

 

7 is tough on the 53 - when you probably only need 5 on a gameday.  Remember we may need to keep 3 QBs on the 53 as well.

I’m assuming one less TE but you are right about the extra QB. That could change it I suppose.

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1 hour ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I still believe in Foster. He has to step it up now for sure. I think Dukes a goner most likely with Hodgins here. Theyll keep McKenzie for the gadget stuff. I see the real fight between Foster and Davis for the final spot. 

Foster and Davis will be asked to be gunners - key component for that 4th spot on WR roster.

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I love which rounds we picked them in too. Davis is probably a third round pick in most drafts and Hodgins was probably a 4th/5th in most drafts. They both have a chance of being solid contributors down the road. They both get to learn from John Brown which will be huge for their development. 

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It would behoove the young WRs and/or CBs to work on their punt catching skills.

McKenzie could become a lock if he can hold on to punts and he should be working on that harder than anyone on the team.

 

I like Roberts but he's 32 years old also in his last year of his contract and has one skill.  I will bet this is his last year one way or the other.

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It is interesting and human nature I guess. Fans tend to overvalue the unknown. Last year Duke was not playing and there was so much talk about how he is the best WR on the roster etc. 

 

Now we draft Davis and Hodgins and the Bills have "double-downed" on WR. Reality is neither of these guys could make the roster. Who are they better than?

 

Diggs, Brown, Beasley - No

Roberts, Foster, McKenzie - Probably not

Williams, McCloud, Easley - Maybe

 

I have no problem with them being drafted where they were. But lets not exaggerate the value here. If they had moved up or drafter guys early - like Higgins, Aiyuk, Pittman etc. Even one of the first 10 WR off the board that would be one thing. But they took the 17th and 30th WR of the draft. These are low risk, maybe the make the team type of picks. Its lower than a free agent signing like a Rashard Higgins, Marquise Lee, Jordan Matthews and if one of those guys were signed would we have a Bills double down thread?

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10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Davis isn't better than McKenzie, Duke or Foster? 

 

I hope thats not the case... they aren't cutting a 4th round pick. Hodgins I could see on the practice squad, but Davis is a lock. 

What makes him better? All of those guys have shown they can be a capable 4th or 5th WR. Not saying they are amazing by any means but just saying Davis is not in the same discussion had we drafted one of the top 5 WR's in the draft and even a step down from a Pittman/Shenault/Higgins caliber player. Something the Bills and teams do in many many drafts. Take a shot at a WR in the 4-7th round. 

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3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

?

We all know schools have been shut down, but it’s no excuse for not knowing WTH you’re talking about.

?‍♂️

 

Quiz: 53 + 2 = ?


So how many players do teams get to keep on their permanent roster that are protected from being poached off the PS on non-gamedays?

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46 minutes ago, ngbills said:

It is interesting and human nature I guess. Fans tend to overvalue the unknown. Last year Duke was not playing and there was so much talk about how he is the best WR on the roster etc. 

 

Now we draft Davis and Hodgins and the Bills have "double-downed" on WR. Reality is neither of these guys could make the roster. Who are they better than?

 

Diggs, Brown, Beasley - No

Roberts, Foster, McKenzie - Probably not

Williams, McCloud, Easley - Maybe

 

I have no problem with them being drafted where they were. But lets not exaggerate the value here. If they had moved up or drafter guys early - like Higgins, Aiyuk, Pittman etc. Even one of the first 10 WR off the board that would be one thing. But they took the 17th and 30th WR of the draft. These are low risk, maybe the make the team type of picks. Its lower than a free agent signing like a Rashard Higgins, Marquise Lee, Jordan Matthews and if one of those guys were signed would we have a Bills double down thread?

 

Davis is better than Robert Foster and he is a very different player to McKenzie. He will the first backup to John Brown at the X spot I would imagine and will run a lot of vertical routes. He is a different sort of vertical threat to Brown but that is his role. He is also a better gunner than Foster already and supplants him in that role. He is a better wide receiver than Roberts as well but Roberts is a lock as a return guy.

 

Is worth saying if your primary returner and primary gunner are both receivers you might keep an extra receiver over a backup DB. The Bills carried 10 DBs last year (5 corners and 5 safeties) wouldn't shock me if they only went with 9 in 2020.

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14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Davis is better than Robert Foster and he is a very different player to McKenzie. He will the first backup to John Brown at the X spot I would imagine and will run a lot of vertical routes. He is a different sort of vertical threat to Brown but that is his role. He is also a better gunner than Foster already and supplants him in that role. He is a better wide receiver than Roberts as well but Roberts is a lock as a return guy.

 

Is worth saying if your primary returner and primary gunner are both receivers you might keep an extra receiver over a backup DB. The Bills carried 10 DBs last year (5 corners and 5 safeties) wouldn't shock me if they only went with 9 in 2020.

Good point. Neal saw a decent amount of PT last year and Johnson was just drafted. Poyer, White, Hyde are obviously locks. I think Levi is safe as well.  Then it’s Gaines, Norman, Marlowe, Jackson. 

 

Maybe they bring in another camp body but I think the above is our final DB room going into camp. I wouldn’t be surprised if Marlowe goes.

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15 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

It’s nice to have some young fresh blood on the offense this season. I’m looking forward to more explosiveness given all these new toys. Big year for josh to make this crew click 

It’s all about execution, they all need to be on the same page, physically and mentally. Band of brothers and all.  I am certain that the 2nd half of the playoff game still stings, a very good motivator I would think. With the new additions we are set for the division and more, imo.

 

Go Bills!!!

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4 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

The +2 are PS players that can be carried on game day only.  They're still practice squad and thus must clear waivers, and are free to sign with other teams to be on their active roster.

 

7 is tough on the 53 - when you probably only need 5 on a gameday.  Remember we may need to keep 3 QBs on the 53 as well.

Andre Roberts provided a few thrills last year, but never delivered a knockout punch and was virtually invisible as a WR. Add his salary and he’s on the bubble. ‘Rue-Rue’? ‘Dupe’? ‘Sleazy’? ‘Fluster’? fuggetaboutit..

 

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

It would behoove the young WRs and/or CBs to work on their punt catching skills.

McKenzie could become a lock if he can hold on to punts and he should be working on that harder than anyone on the team.

 

I like Roberts but he's 32 years old also in his last year of his contract and has one skill.  I will bet this is his last year one way or the other.

I’m guessing last year was the last year..

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57 minutes ago, ngbills said:

What makes him better? All of those guys have shown they can be a capable 4th or 5th WR. Not saying they are amazing by any means but just saying Davis is not in the same discussion had we drafted one of the top 5 WR's in the draft and even a step down from a Pittman/Shenault/Higgins caliber player. Something the Bills and teams do in many many drafts. Take a shot at a WR in the 4-7th round. 

So Duke Williams only managed to play 15 games at Auburn (over 2 yrs), his fault by the way, and he had 57 catches for 877 yds (15.4 YPC) and 6 TDs.  

Isaiah McKenzie  played in 33 games at Georgia (over 3 yrs) and had 60 catches for 823 yds (13.4 YPC) and 7 TDs.

Foster played in only 19 games at Alabama (Over 4 years) and had 35 catches for 389 yds (11.1 YPC) and 3 TDs.

And none of these guys have showed they are a viable 4th or 5th WR in the league.  They combined for all of 17 Starts in the NFL over  a total of 5 years played.

 

Gabe Davis played in 36 games over 3 years at UCF and had 152 catches for 2447 yds (16.1YPC) and 23 TDs.  Had a catch in very game he played.  

Compared to the other 3 he is #1 in Games played, Receptions, Rec/GP, Tot Yds REC,  YPC ,TDs and TD /receptions.  He scored a TD on average every 6.6 catches.

 

I personally like Davis's chances over the other 3 to be the 4th WR this year.  And I would bet that only 1 of the 3 (Foster, Williams or McKenzie) make the 53

 

 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I think you may be right that at the moment McKenzie and maybe Duke are better... Foster? Guy was a disaster last year.

 

Its Davis’s potential with adjustment to the NFL game that will make him a better option in the near future....where as McKenzie and a Duke are what they are at this point. Davis offers more as a wide out than McKenzie, specifically on the outside. McKenzies game is essentially the quick jet sweep and working the slot underneath. 

Diggs and Roberts (if he makes squad) can run jet sweeps too.  McKenzie is not a given on roster either.

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18 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

So Duke Williams only managed to play 15 games at Auburn (over 2 yrs), his fault by the way, and he had 57 catches for 877 yds (15.4 YPC) and 6 TDs.  

Isaiah McKenzie  played in 33 games at Georgia (over 3 yrs) and had 60 catches for 823 yds (13.4 YPC) and 7 TDs.

Foster played in only 19 games at Alabama (Over 4 years) and had 35 catches for 389 yds (11.1 YPC) and 3 TDs.

And none of these guys have showed they are a viable 4th or 5th WR in the league.  They combined for all of 17 Starts in the NFL over  a total of 5 years played.

 

Gabe Davis played in 36 games over 3 years at UCF and had 152 catches for 2447 yds (16.1YPC) and 23 TDs.  Had a catch in very game he played.  

Compared to the other 3 he is #1 in Games played, Receptions, Rec/GP, Tot Yds REC,  YPC ,TDs and TD /receptions.  He scored a TD on average every 6.6 catches.

 

I personally like Davis's chances over the other 3 to be the 4th WR this year.  And I would bet that only 1 of the 3 (Foster, Williams or McKenzie) make the 53

I dont think it is that simple. Zay Jones had 399 NCAA receptions - more than that entire list combined. R Foster caught for over 500 yds as an undrafted rookie including 3 100 yd games. Duke was supposedly all world if not for off the field issues. You can dice it up at many ways. At the end of the day I dont think it is unreasonable to call this what it is. Davis and Hodgins are your typical 4-7 round prospects that may or may not have careers in this league. 

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