Rd 5, Pick 167: QB Jake Fromm, Georgia

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

 

What is your arguement here? That nobody throws sideline out routes in the short to intermediate range??

 

Seems dumb! As has already been pointed out you would throw these plays in even just to insure the defense has to cover it. Playing games witbout ever having this in your arsenal would be seriously stupid. 

 

The flat was invented as a zone for no reason bro.

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

What is your arguement here? That nobody throws sideline out routes in the short to intermediate range??

 

Seems dumb! As has already been pointed out you would throw these plays in even just to insure the defense has to cover it. Playing games witbout ever having this in your arsenal would be seriously stupid.

 

I'm talking about plays like the one at 1:03 here:

 

 

 

 

 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

20 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The Bills still need a LB.

 

Agreed, but I feel like McBeane have Vosean Joseph in their back pocket. He was stashed on IR last year because we were worried he wouldn't clear waivers and get to the P.S. May not pan out, but he's in the mix, at least. Tyrel Dodson, as well. They must like their chances, between those two.

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

Agreed, but I feel like McBeane have Vosean Joseph in their back pocket. He was stashed on IR last year because we were worried he wouldn't clear waivers and get to the P.S. May not pan out, but he's in the mix, at least. Tyrel Dodson, as well. They must like their chances, between those two.

 

I think them passing on a guy like Baun or other prospects early means they're happy with who they have.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I think them passing on a guy like Baun or other prospects early means they're happy with who they have.

 

Yep. There's got to be more behind the Baun fall. He is undersized, but maybe there's more to the diluted drug test than us pleebs have heard about. H.I.P.P.A. has some protections for things like that leaking out. Wouldn't be surprised if there's fire where there's smoke. 

[Doc]

Just now, ROCBillsBeliever said:

Yep. There's got to be more behind the Baun fall. He is undersized, but maybe there's more to the diluted drug test than us pleebs have heard about. H.I.P.P.A. has some protections for things like that leaking out. Wouldn't be surprised if there's fire where there's smoke. 

 

True that could explain not taking Baun/his draft fall.  But there were other options.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Deep balls aren't really the indicator of NFL arm strength. The question is whether he can throw a 12 yard out fast enough to not get jumped for a pick 6. It's a valid question, and I believe he's on the fringe. There are many QB's who have gained arm strength after getting into the league. That's why I bump his ceiling up to a Cousins type. If he can gain that ball velocity he could be a gem.

you make a good point re velocity— QBs can gain velocity, including through improving on  throwing mechanics. Brees and Brady increased their velocity.

 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

21 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Some Facts about the “WEAK ARM” hmmmmm

 

 

 

Deshaun Watson: 45 mph...

 

Quit this Peterman-rag-arm talk. Fromm's arm is decent, and he has more than enough arm strength to be an NFL backup; probably plenty even to be a starter, if you consider Watson's MPH.

 

#getwoke #scienceiscool #watchingtapeiscooltoo #numbersareimportant

21 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

So who has a stronger arm Barkley or Fromm??  To me that's the biggest question.  And will they keep all three on the active roster.  Doubt you could cut Fromm and slip him to PS.  Or do they cut Barkley in September?

 

Cut Davis Webb. 3 QBs on the roster (two extra spots; one for Fromm/Barkley, and the other for an extra OL).

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

Deshaun Watson: 45 mph...

 

Quit this Peterman-rag-arm talk. Fromm's arm is decent, and he has more than enough arm strength to be an NFL backup; probably plenty even to be a starter, if you consider Watson's MPH.

 

#getwoke #scienceiscool #watchingtapeiscooltoo #numbersareimportant

This ball velocity thing is meaningless for whatever reason. Peterman was 49 mph. You just need to watch the tape.

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I'm talking about plays like the one at 1:03 here:

 

 

 

 

 

That’s not an out route, it’s a poorly run hitch route that should have never been thrown to.

 

 Nate stares down the receiver the ENTIRE time, and the DB is squatting in the flat in between the receiver and the ball. He makes a great play on the ball, but that throw wasn’t ever there. Maybe Josh can hurtle it in there before the DB jumps it but I think it’s a pick six or PBU regardless of who is throwing it. The stare down is HORRIFIC. The backside S basically gets there before the ball has reached its target, let alone the DB who is already there.

 

God, Peterman sucks so bad.

Edited April 26, 2020 by FireChans

[Figster]

3 hours ago, pop gun said:

My hope is Fromm comes in shows well as a backup/preseason for a couple years and the Bills can peddle him off for a high draft pick, ala Jimmy G. to San Francisco. 

Absolutely,

 

All part of the process...

[McBean]

I believe in Josh Allen. He has all the tools. He just has to put them all together now. He has always been a 3 year project.

 

With that being said, Fromm will push #17. Mark this post. 

 

Fromm comes from a big boy program, has big boy experience, and big boy numbers to back it up.

 

I can not freakin believe we got him in the 5th round. I'm still shocked.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

6 minutes ago, McBean said:

I believe in Josh Allen. He has all the tools. He just has to put them all together now. He has always been a 3 year project.

 

With that being said, Fromm will push #17. Mark this post. 

 

Fromm comes from a big boy program, has big boy experience, and big boy numbers to back it up.

 

I can not freakin believe we got him in the 5th round. I'm still shocked.

 

and that exactly means what?  Because a quick google search will show you tons of QBs from big boy programs, with big boy experience, and big boy numbers have flamed out quickly in the NFL.  If you what you say is true, then start Fromm now and quit wasting everyone's time.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

and that exactly means what?  Because a quick google search will show you tons of QBs from big boy programs, with big boy experience, and big boy numbers have flamed out quickly in the NFL.  If you what you say is true, then start Fromm now and quit wasting everyone's time.

 

How many google searches will it take to show a Wyoming QB who succeeded in the NFL?

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

How many google searches will it take to show a Wyoming QB who succeeded in the NFL?

 

More searches than licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll.

[Greybeard]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Why even throw a 10-12 yard out?  Most of the time they're incomplete, often they're picked-off, and at best you're looking at a minimal gain.  That's what frustrated me about Peterman.  He'd keep throwing them just to gain a couple yards.

         Was that Peterman or the OC?

[FireChans]

Just now, Greybeard said:

         Was that Peterman or the OC?

Peterman

[Real McClappy]

16 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

and that exactly means what?  Because a quick google search will show you tons of QBs from big boy programs, with big boy experience, and big boy numbers have flamed out quickly in the NFL.  If you what you say is true, then start Fromm now and quit wasting everyone's time.

 

It means we got him for a 5th rd pick and a steal basically per numerous media outlets. I'm not sure why Bills fan are bashing the pick? Especially at the QB position that we have neglected for so long. 

 

All you can do is roll the dice and hope for Brady 2.0. I'm happy with the pick. 

 

 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

         Was that Peterman or the OC?

 

Good question.  I think someone else said that it appeared that Peterman went with whatever his pre-read told him to go.  Then again, having that route in there allows for it to be utilized.

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Good question.  I think someone else said that it appeared that Peterman went with whatever his pre-read told him to go.  Then again, having that route in there allows for it to be utilized.

Not every route is the primary or secondary read. Peterman consistently made decisions his arm couldn’t cash. Bad decisions + bad arm = pick city.

[without a drought]

4 hours ago, pop gun said:

My hope is Fromm comes in shows well as a backup/preseason for a couple years and the Bills can peddle him off for a high draft pick, ala Jimmy G. to San Francisco. 

My hope is that Fromm becomes the best QB to ever play in the NFL and then we trade Allen for three 1st rounders and then win 10 Super Bowls.

[Kelly the Dog]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Why even throw a 10-12 yard out?  Most of the time they're incomplete, often they're picked-off, and at best you're looking at a minimal gain.  That's what frustrated me about Peterman.  He'd keep throwing them just to gain a couple yards.

If you cannot throw an out or a deep out, DCs and DBs can take about 25% of the field away from you, which makes inside the hashes a lot harder to complete. All that is left of the sidelines is a lob over the corner and in front of the safety. Of course, rag arms CAN complete an out or a deep out sporadically, but it's dangerous and often deadly.

[BeastMaster]

12 hours ago, dezertbill said:

Impressive game vs. 7th ranked Notre Dame.  Go to 6:50 where he throws a 40 yard TD against his body that was dropped by the WR.  Plenty of arm strength on that one.

 

Only concern is the winds at New Era Field.  Think he'll be fine.

I came away from that game very unimpressed TBH.

 

Lots of dink and dunk throws...one where his lack of arm strength shows on a intermediate throw to an open receiver in the middle of the field.

 

The throw you referenced was a good throw...although in our stadium he probably can't make it.

 

I don't think he'll be fine, but if he's a cheaper Barkley, I suppose it's an OK move. 

 

I believe we need a good backup QB, not a guy who may struggle to make the throws needed in our own building.

[Draconator]

44 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Not every route is the primary or secondary read. Peterman consistently made decisions his arm couldn’t cash. Bad decisions + bad arm = pick city.

 

And that's the golden point right there. Fromm may have Peterman's arm, but I believe he certainly doesn't have Peterman's brain. He'll make smarter decisions with the ball. 

[Figster]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

I believe in Josh Allen. He has all the tools. He just has to put them all together now. He has always been a 3 year project.

 

With that being said, Fromm will push #17. Mark this post. 

 

Fromm comes from a big boy program, has big boy experience, and big boy numbers to back it up.

 

I can not freakin believe we got him in the 5th round. I'm still shocked.

Yup

 

All of the above

[Mrbojanglezs]

20 hours ago, mannc said:

Out of 8 home games at new era any given year, about 3 are in bad weather.  It’s an overrated factor, IMO

 

Weather is yes. But the wind factor is not overrated. 10 mph is considered a fair day in buffalo and the stadium amplifies the wind. 

[SloanBillsFan]

23 hours ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

Amazing to grab a guy who has conveniently dropped in the draft because of lack of need. Bills getting bpa ftw!!! Love this pick! 

I'm not up on all the "current lingo" you Whippersnappers use these days so, for us dolts in the audience, what is "BPA" & "FTW"? 

 

Also just caught a video of talking heads discussing the pick. One described Fromm as "[the Bills] just drafted the best QB coach for Josh Allen" because of his knowledge and the way he sees the game. He was also described as a football savant. As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread I'm pretty happy with the pick. 

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, SloanBillsFan said:

what is "BPA" & "FTW"? 

 

BPA = Best Player Available

FTW = For The Win

[Perry Turtle]

26 minutes ago, Draconator said:

 

And that's the golden point right there. Fromm may have Peterman's arm, but I believe he certainly doesn't have Peterman's brain. He'll make smarter decisions with the ball. 

If Peterman didn't have a good football brain, he never would have made it onto an NFL roster.

 

Peterman is a good practice player, he looks like a good QB at practice speed, but his skills are not good enough to play at gameday speed.  

 

 

 

 

[SloanBillsFan]

D'oh! 

 

Thanks! 

[Kangaxx]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is the 2020 QB combine velocity numbers. Fromm is not great, but I don't believe he has a weak of an arm as Chad Penningtion.

 

Year: 2020

Jacob Eason Washington 59 (Left) 59 (Right)

Jake Luton Oregon State 59 (Left) 56 (Right)

Steven Montez Colorado 58 (Left) 59 (Right)

Kevin Davidson Princeton 57 (Left) 56 (Right)

Justin Herbert Oregon 55 (Left) 54 (Right)

James Morgan Florida International 54 (Left) 54 (Right)

Jordan Love Utah State 54 (Left) 53 (Right)

Jalen Hurts Oklahoma 54 (Left) 51 (Right)

Jake Fromm Georgia 53 (Left) 53 (Right)

Nate Stanley Iowa 52 (Left) 54 (Right)

Anthony Gordon Washington State 52 (Left) 51 (Right)

Brian Lewerke Michigan State 51 (Left) 49 (Right)

Cole McDonald Hawaii 51 (Left) 47 (Right)

Shea Patterson Michigan 50 (Left) 51 (Right)

Kelly Bryant Missouri 47 (Left) 45 (Right)

Joe Burrow – did not throw

Tua Tagovailoa – did not throw

[Buffalo716]

The Fromm lovefest is kinda ludicrous

 

He doesn't have NFL tools and will struggle against starting NFL defenses

6 minutes ago, BillsFanForReal said:

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is the 2020 QB combine velocity numbers. Fromm is not great, but I don't believe he has a weak of an arm as Chad Penningtion.

 

Year: 2020

Jacob Eason Washington 59 (Left) 59 (Right)

Jake Luton Oregon State 59 (Left) 56 (Right)

Steven Montez Colorado 58 (Left) 59 (Right)

Kevin Davidson Princeton 57 (Left) 56 (Right)

Justin Herbert Oregon 55 (Left) 54 (Right)

James Morgan Florida International 54 (Left) 54 (Right)

Jordan Love Utah State 54 (Left) 53 (Right)

Jalen Hurts Oklahoma 54 (Left) 51 (Right)

Jake Fromm Georgia 53 (Left) 53 (Right)

Nate Stanley Iowa 52 (Left) 54 (Right)

Anthony Gordon Washington State 52 (Left) 51 (Right)

Brian Lewerke Michigan State 51 (Left) 49 (Right)

Cole McDonald Hawaii 51 (Left) 47 (Right)

Shea Patterson Michigan 50 (Left) 51 (Right)

Kelly Bryant Missouri 47 (Left) 45 (Right)

Joe Burrow – did not throw

Tua Tagovailoa – did not throw

the combine velocity numbers don't tell the whole story. Watch every throw from his career to get a gauge of his arm strength , and his balls wobble 

 

He could be jacked up and throwing it as hard as he can to make his arm look stronger . Herbert isnt trying to throw 55 , I bet Fromm did to hit 53

 

And Chad Pennington was the most accurate quarterback I've ever seen Jake Fromm has nothing on him

[BillsFanNC]

I'll say upfront that I dont know, just like everyone else,  if Fromm will be an adequate NFL backup or not.

 

To me this thread has shown just how badly Nathan Peterman scarred the psyches of some Bills fans way more than it shows some irrational love for Jake Fromm.

 

 

 

 

 

[maryland-bills-fan]

6 hours ago, Putin said:

I see talk about him not having a strong arm but watching some of his highlights I see a ton of deep throws with a nice spiral and very accurate , obviously he doesn’t have a cannon for an arm like Allen but then again not many NFL starting QB’s do !!! 
 

Has anyone ever noticed that long passes are thrown with a lot of arc and the WR runs under the ball, which also drops from the sky, rather than coming in as a low angle bullet that the DB can knock down?   Most people don't understand the practical meaning of the acceleration of gravity. IF you want a pass to drop from the sky OVER a trailing DB, you launch it higher and slower so it comes down after traveling for a longer time. You let your RB run under the dropping ball.  Trust me. I don't want to go through a calculus lesson.  Arm strength to throw it 100mph doesn't help there.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan

[Georgia Bill]

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2020/01/10/is-jake-fromm-the-best-possible-brady-successor/This guy likes him as more than a backup.  Time will tell...

Edited April 26, 2020 by Georgia Bill
added link

[Figster]

38 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Has anyone ever noticed that long passes are thrown with a lot of arc and the WR runs under the ball, which also drops from the sky, rather than coming in as a low angle bullet that the DB can knock down?   Most people don't understand the practical meaning of the acceleration of gravity. IF you want a pass to drop from the sky OVER a trailing DB, you launch it higher and slower so it comes down after traveling for a longer time. You let your RB run under the dropping ball.  Trust me. I don't want to go through a calculus lesson.

Its a good point and part of the reason why Allen struggles with long ball accuracy IMO. Give him more overall size in his WR corp and I believe we will see a better completion % with long ball throws from Josh Allen. Less of an arc on long balls allows more chances for smaller DB's to make a play and less time for a WR to adjust IMO. Its all fine and good to have the ability to throw with velocity. On the other hand you better have an ability to throw with touch or even the easiest pass plays become a problem.

 

Peyton Manning helped win his last Championship with what most would call a noodle arm because he understood what more arc and touch would give him, made the proper adjustments and played within his limitations in my humble opinion.

 

Smart fella, that Manning...

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Figster

[Steve O]

On 4/25/2020 at 3:12 PM, RobbRiddick said:

In all seriousness, I'm glad they got a QB. Not because I don't want Josh in there (I actually have an unhealthy appreciation/love of Josh Allen) but because the way he runs around and jumps into tackles sometimes I do worry he'll get dinged. 

The way Josh runs and jumps I pray he'll only get dinged, that's a best case scenario. I worry he'll get hospitalized!

[TwistofFate]

Im happy about the Fromm pick for multiple reasons. 

 

First and foremost is the value.  This was a stellar pick in that round. 

 

Second is youth that can be further developed on what is already a great baseline. 

 

Third, if Allen faulters in anyway be it injury or performance, there is a hungry, capable guy in the pipeline...which is NEVER BAD.  

 

Die hard Allen fans feel threatened by this pick, so of course to them he's some trashy 5th rounder who will never make it.  The funny thing is they couldn't be more wrong and are blinded by ignorance. 

 

Fromm was a great pick and time will tell how great it could be. 

[Turbo44]

3 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Im happy about the Fromm pick for multiple reasons. 

 

First and foremost is the value.  This was a stellar pick in that round. 

 

Second is youth that can be further developed on what is already a great baseline. 

 

Third, if Allen faulters in anyway be it injury or performance, there is a hungry, capable guy in the pipeline...which is NEVER BAD.  

 

Die hard Allen fans feel threatened by this pick, so of course to them he's some trashy 5th rounder who will never make it.  The funny thing is they couldn't be more wrong and are blinded by ignorance. 

 

Fromm was a great pick and time will tell how great it could be. 

 Watching his Netflix show and like the pick even more. Great kid but a competitive sob. Will be a great backup to Josh. Probably will be 3rd string this year and take over for Barkley next year

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

How many google searches will it take to show a Wyoming QB who succeeded in the NFL?

 

I never touted that did I?  So why not start Fromm now, I know you want to.  Admit it!  

25 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Im happy about the Fromm pick for multiple reasons. 

 

First and foremost is the value.  This was a stellar pick in that round. 

 

Second is youth that can be further developed on what is already a great baseline. 

 

Third, if Allen faulters in anyway be it injury or performance, there is a hungry, capable guy in the pipeline...which is NEVER BAD.  

 

Die hard Allen fans feel threatened by this pick, so of course to them he's some trashy 5th rounder who will never make it.  The funny thing is they couldn't be more wrong and are blinded by ignorance. 

 

Fromm was a great pick and time will tell how great it could be. 

 

I don't feel threatened, nor have I touted Fromm has some trashy 5th rounder.   However, many people such as yourself tout Allen as a trashy QB from Wyoming who will never make it.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

I never touted that did I?  So why not start Fromm now, I know you want to.  Admit it!  

 

I don't feel threatened, nor have I touted Fromm has some trashy 5th rounder.   However, many people such as yourself tout Allen as a trashy QB from Wyoming who will never make it.

You should read this topic. It’s filled with folks calling him trash. Rooting against Bills players is a bad look.