Quinton Spain to re-sign with buffalo, 3 yr 15 million

[TheBeaneBandit]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah, he has it backwards.  He’s good in pass pro and despite his size, is meh as a run blocker.  

That's it exactly. Perfectly said.

[billsfan89]

15 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Having five returning starters on the offensive line is unprecedented around these parts. I honestly can’t remember the last time that happened in Buffalo. For that reason alone, this is a great signing. Spain had his ups and downs, but when he was up he was really good. Plus having primary backups in Long, Nsehke, Bates back? Seriously never happens. 
 

On Ford, people need to understand how incredibly hard it is to play the offensive line. It takes time. What Ford was asked to do in this offense was so far advanced from what he had to do as a Sooner. Ford is raw with a lot of upside and will take time. Very similar to Dion Dawkins, last year’s “guy who needs to move to guard but now we all want to extend.” Give it time and Ford will be very good.

 

2015 to 2016 I think they returned the same O-line of Cord-InCog-Wood-Miller-Mills (Unless I am missing something) and I can't think of the O-line changing much from 2016 to 2017 either besides Dawkins taking over for an injured Glenn. But before that I can't think of a time when the O-line had that type of continuity (certainly not in the drought era.) And unlike the 2015-2017 offensive lines (which were solid O-lines dominant in the ground blocking and average to below average pass blocking) you have a lot of quality depth behind them. Ty and Long are starting caliber players, while Bates is super versatile with potential. 

 

I was worried when McBeane in 2018 seemingly neglected the O-line (I give them credit in 2017 for at least investing a 2nd round pick in the O-line with Dawkins when the O-line in 2016 was coming off of a decent season.) But the complete rebuild of the O-line and O-line depth in 2019 with mostly mid-tier or lower acquisitions (Outside of Mitch there were no huge contracts and only a 2nd round pick was added via the draft) was something that showed me that they understand the importance of the O-line. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by billsfan89

[metzelaars_lives]

19 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Nah, it's pretty much set

 

LT - Dawkins/Nsekhe

LG - Spain/Long

C - Morse/Spain/Long

RG - Feliciano/Ford

RT - Ford/Nsekhe

 

Maybe grab another Tackle, and a Guard to compete, but we can roll with that.

This is correct.

[boater]

Eddie Murphy: What a bargain!

[Malazan]

A very nice signing for a solid OL

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, zevo said:

I really think the mantra of this team is positional flexibility. I don’t think they necessarily like to pigeonhole a player to one designated position. You see it all across the oline...every player has flexibility. 

This is a mentality that helped us throughout the season. and from game to game as Bills would rotate linemen in.

Solid depth is the key to their success. I am of the thinking that another year playing with Allen and together is bound to show improvement.
and while this has turned into a Ford Thread very nearly. He is the weakest link in pass pro on that line.

Fix that? and ya got somethin' 

 Go Bills

[GunnerBill]

Really pleased to see Q back. I was all over us pursuing him in FA last year, indeed he was my #1 FA target for the Bills. I thought he had a decent season. Slow start, excellent stretch of play in the middle and a middling end. But to get a solid starting NFL guard tied up for 3 years at $5m per year is an absolute steal. Especially when he best seasons he has been way above solid and I am hopeful that in year 2 of the system and playing between Dawkins and Morse again with that continuity he will not just be solid as he was this year but can potentially be very good. 

 

Wasn't necessarily expecting him back but this is a nice outcome. Does suggest they will stick with Cody at RT. Would still like to see a developmental tackle somewhere on day 3.

[YoloinOhio]

Murph and Tasker said at the end of their show that they both expect the Bills to move Ford inside this year.

 

hmmm

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I get the inclination to want to kick Ford inside and bring in a RT. But I think McBeane deserves the benefit of the doubt with Ford. Granted he was up and down his rookie year but played better deeper into the season (which is usually a sign of a player working out the kinks) so I think people are really nervous about Ford despite not taking into account the balance of his season and the regime that drafted him. 

 

With Spain back in the fold I think they are going with the idea that the O-line last year ranged from average to above average and two things will help push their level of play up, and that is continuity and Ford improving/developing. 

 

Don't they have Ty? I would love to see them resign Waddle if his medicals are good. Ty and Waddle would give some quality options behind Ford and Dawkins (as both can play both sides.) 

good post

 

on of my ***** about folks wanting to move Ford to guard.

 McD did not once during the season.
did they during practice? don't know that. I feel that would be a last hope to salvage him.

 

Ford has to improve the pass pro as he lost some drives and big downs for us.

I am hoping he does.

Spain ? Super glad to have him back next to Dion and Mitch. Left side will be strong and that the most important side for our QB of course !

[Nester]

Awesome news

[GG]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Murph and Tasker said at the end of their show that they both expect the Bills to move Ford inside this year.

 

hmmm

 

Could this be more about Morse?

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Could this be more about Morse?

 

It is not a stupid question. I think from snap the the ball being dead the best center the Bills had last year was Feliciano in his limited snaps when Morse went down in a couple of games. That said Morse was no doubt part of helping them get into better protection schemes and line calls etc. 

 

My view is they likely see Ford staying at tackle at least for 2020. But Morse's health is a question and they likely think they need a contingency plan which almost certainly involves Feliciano at center. 

[biggerdaddynj]

Like the Spain signing—as everyone said, continuity is imperative with OL.

 

As for the Ford talk, McBeane is married to him at RT after moving up specifically to take him as a RT—unlike most teams who projected him at G (but with high marks FWIW).  So, the FO will give him every chance and then some to succeed at RT.

 

I was happy we got him on draft day and want him to succeed at RT—just hope they don’t push the situation merely to try to prove he’s capable of playing RT even if he’s not an early 2nd rd OT selection but could be a value at that pick at G.
 

Whether we like it or not, there is that “stick with your guy” dynamic to a FO with certain FA signings and early draft choices (and trading up increases the pressure).  Keeping my fingers crossed that Ford proves his naysayers and the nervous optimists wrong (and from his perspective all the doubters should be a big motivator for him!). 

Edited March 13, 2020 by biggerdaddynj

[John from Riverside]

43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is not a stupid question. I think from snap the the ball being dead the best center the Bills had last year was Feliciano in his limited snaps when Morse went down in a couple of games. That said Morse was no doubt part of helping them get into better protection schemes and line calls etc. 

 

My view is they likely see Ford staying at tackle at least for 2020. But Morse's health is a question and they likely think they need a contingency plan which almost× certainly involves Feliciano at center. 

This is a good point.....we literally have 3 guys who can play center on this team with Jon F. being first batter up......I def hope that Morse stays healthy but they really have covered themselves.

[billykay]

4 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

If i put ford at guard then i would let feliciano or long go.  probably make feliciano the back up if hell take the money.  if ford is better than feliciano at RG then i dont think they would be better served with feliciano at RG.  that said i dont know how good ford would be at RG, but i would def take one of the top 4 tackles if they somehow magically fell in the draft.

Don't forget. Feliciano also plays Center & played it very well when he was called on.

[mjt328]

10 hours ago, jletha said:

I am glad we re-signed Spain first and foremost but it does leave me with questions as to what we are going to do moving forward. I agree that most people would say our weakness was RT. A lot of people want to make Ford a guard permanently, which makes sense based on last year. Re-signing Spain and Long creates a log-jam at G though, so if Ford was going to make the switch to G he is going to have to fight for snaps which seems counterproductive for a young players development when switching positions.

 

Also what room is there for upgrades? If we agree that another RT would be an upgrade and we get one in FA or the early rounds of the draft, how is that player going to rotate in with Ford & Nseke? This move actually makes me think we sit tight at OL with what we have instead of look for an upgrade, which is disappointing a bit.

 

Again, I am happy overall we re-signed Spain but I makes upgrading the line a bit less obvious. But as always in Beane I trust.

 

One thing to remember is that Jon Feliciano is a free agent in 2021.  So the coaching staff may feel that Cody Ford just needs another season of development.  If he struggles again, the opportunity will arise again next year to kick him inside.

 

Sometimes you upgrade by just letting young players develop.  That's what we are obviously doing at Quarterback.  So why not other positions?

Our Left Tackle play improved in 2019 without a player change.  Same with Middle Linebacker.  

I think the team will be depending heavily on improvement from Ford, along with Ed Oliver (hence letting Jordan Phillips walk) and Dawson Knox.

 

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, billykay said:

Don't forget. Feliciano also plays Center & played it very well when he was called on.

Yup. I would cut long if choosing between Feliciano and long (I talked about Feliciano cause he was starting cause he’s better than long).  @GunnerBillhad a great point about long term security at the center position. 

[John from Riverside]

On 3/12/2020 at 3:11 PM, aristocrat said:

 

might be a trade candidate.  perhaps we could do some kind of player for player deal and maybe get a rb or something? or for diggs? ooooh me likey

WHy would we trade a good OL when we need them ourselves?

20 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Yup. I would cut long if choosing between Feliciano and long (I talked about Feliciano cause he was starting cause he’s better than long).  @GunnerBillhad a great point about long term security at the center position. 

I would just keep them all?

 

The OL is pretty much complete....the reserves are quality......trading away good players that we could use sounds like the old bills

[YattaOkasan]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

WHy would we trade a good OL when we need them ourselves?

I would just keep them all?

 

The OL is pretty much complete....the reserves are quality......trading away good players that we could use sounds like the old bills

Agree keep them all I was trying to respond to some discussion about bumping Ford inside and how that’s a lot of assets for a backup. I think if they kick him inside they start him. But yeah keep them all. 

[aristocrat]

52 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

WHy would we trade a good OL when we need them ourselves?

I would just keep them all?

 

The OL is pretty much complete....the reserves are quality......trading away good players that we could use sounds like the old bills

 

well if we slide ford to guard. first round right tackle.  sign a nice depth guard. is there a trade available to move jon for another position of need?  seriously could jon get diggs? or get close to diggs?

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

well if we slide ford to guard. first round right tackle.  sign a nice depth guard. is there a trade available to move jon for another position of need?  seriously could jon get diggs? or get close to diggs?

I like Diggs as well....a draft pick would get him.

 

I would rather keep our OL AND get Diggs.   If a draft pick turned into Diggs and we drafted another WR out of this draft I feel like we would be so much further along.

[T master]

I think that was a really good move good player ! 

[aristocrat]

43 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I like Diggs as well....a draft pick would get him.

 

I would rather keep our OL AND get Diggs.   If a draft pick turned into Diggs and we drafted another WR out of this draft I feel like we would be so much further along.

 

if it's a straight up trade or we give jon and 4th i make that deal for diggs.  beane has to find a replacement for sure but it's a deal i'd think about. 

[LSHMEAB]

15 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

Re-signing Spain prevents a big need in FA or the draft.  Feliciano and Nysekhe are FA's next year and Long could be as well.  Dawkins will be extended soon imo.  I can't remember what presser it was but got the distinct impression Beane is looking to upgrade the Oline.  I'm thinking OT on Day 2 of draft.

What about the interior? We're obsessed with the tackles and pass pro, but nobody seems to care that they got pushed around on 3rd and short ALL SEASON.

 

I would say that a more efficient passing game, ie improvement from Allen, would probably back the opposing D off the LOS, but I don't love the combination. It's not bad. It's just missing a mauler. 

 

Dawkins is fine. RT is a question mark with Ford, so HOPEFULLY he'll improve. Ty is a solid swing tackle and outperformed Ford last season. I think RT is a legit concern, but so is the interior.

 

And yes, Spain filled a need. But MY PREFERENCE would have been to fill that need in free agency and acquire a better straight line blocker at LG considering the other parts.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I suppose the offense is going to ride or die with the improvements they make at the skill positions and JA's development. But as someone who is not quite sure that will all pan out as planned, it would be cool if they could run the football.

[CaptnCoke11]

Does he count towards the comp pick formula?

[Happy]

13 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

What about the interior? We're obsessed with the tackles and pass pro, but nobody seems to care that they got pushed around on 3rd and short ALL SEASON.

 

I would say that a more efficient passing game, ie improvement from Allen, would probably back the opposing D off the LOS, but I don't love the combination. It's not bad. It's just missing a mauler. 

 

Dawkins is fine. RT is a question mark with Ford, so HOPEFULLY he'll improve. Ty is a solid swing tackle and outperformed Ford last season. I think RT is a legit concern, but so is the interior.

 

And yes, Spain filled a need. But MY PREFERENCE would have been to fill that need in free agency and acquire a better straight line blocker at LG considering the other parts.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I suppose the offense is going to ride or die with the improvements they make at the skill positions and JA's development. But as someone who is not quite sure that will all pan out as planned, it would be cool if they could run the football.

 

As far as being pushed around, I suspect Morse has something to do with this, especially in the 'A' gap.  He seemed to be kind of tentative in firing off the line; I don't know if it is because Morse is a little on the smaller side or concussion concerns.  Spain and Feliciano are bigger guys and I thought were more on the mauler side...though I could be wrong on this.

 

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

As far as being pushed around, I suspect Morse has something to do with this, especially in the 'A' gap.  He seemed to be kind of tentative in firing off the line; I don't know if it is because Morse is a little on the smaller side or concussion concerns.  Spain and Feliciano are bigger guys and I thought were more on the mauler side...though I could be wrong on this.

 

Morse is solid and he's gonna be here, so I don't think a whole lot about the C position. (Although I agree with your assessment.) It is what it is for now. You would really think Spain would be a good straight line blocker because of his size, but he's not. Feliciano is more grit than talent. These are all good football players and I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Just offering an opinion about what I'd like to see from an OL.

 

At this point, I'm hoping they go after an RG with the skillset I prefer. We'll see how the roster looks when all the dust settles.

[Happy]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Morse is solid and he's gonna be here, so I don't think a whole lot about the C position. (Although I agree with your assessment.) It is what it is for now. You would really think Spain would be a good straight line blocker because of his size, but he's not. Feliciano is more grit than talent. These are all good football players and I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Just offering an opinion about what I'd like to see from an OL.

 

At this point, I'm hoping they go after an RG with the skillset I prefer. We'll see how the roster looks when all the dust settles.

 

Feliciano is a backup center and filled in well enough during Morse's short absence, so it would be smart to hold onto him.  I would guess Spain starts at LG and Morse isn't going anywhere.  So we're back to the right side of the line again; either send Ford inside and hope he shines there while getting a new RT, or keep Ford at RT and get a new RG (either draft or FA).  I would prefer Ford goes to RG and we bring in a new RT...we have the luxury of getting Ty Nsekhe back so that should be a big help.

 

I agree that these guys are good football players; could the problem be Daboll's blocking scheme and/or technique he wants to use or the new o-line coach?  Another thought is that last year was the first for a completely rebuilt line, so they should be improved by being back together for a second year; this is an argument for keeping things as is, including Ford at RT and Feliciano at RG.  These guys are not worse than some of the Pats O-lines of the past, just that they had a great coach in Dante Scarnecchia, who made all the difference.  Notice how many former Pats o-linemen didn't pan out in FA.

[TheBeaneBandit]

23 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

As far as being pushed around, I suspect Morse has something to do with this, especially in the 'A' gap.  He seemed to be kind of tentative in firing off the line; I don't know if it is because Morse is a little on the smaller side or concussion concerns.  Spain and Feliciano are bigger guys and I thought were more on the mauler side...though I could be wrong on this.

 

They are kinda big softies.....Spain gets in the way in pass pro but gets no push and Feliciano plays like hes got nothing to lose which I love but he's physically limited.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Great signing, need stability up front.

 

 

[DCbillsfan]

8 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

What about the interior? We're obsessed with the tackles and pass pro, but nobody seems to care that they got pushed around on 3rd and short ALL SEASON.

 

I would say that a more efficient passing game, ie improvement from Allen, would probably back the opposing D off the LOS, but I don't love the combination. It's not bad. It's just missing a mauler. 

 

Dawkins is fine. RT is a question mark with Ford, so HOPEFULLY he'll improve. Ty is a solid swing tackle and outperformed Ford last season. I think RT is a legit concern, but so is the interior.

 

And yes, Spain filled a need. But MY PREFERENCE would have been to fill that need in free agency and acquire a better straight line blocker at LG considering the other parts.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I suppose the offense is going to ride or die with the improvements they make at the skill positions and JA's development. But as someone who is not quite sure that will all pan out as planned, it would be cool if they could run the football.

I agree with you on the interior of the line.  Not sure what Beane will do there.  If they get some tackle depth beyond Nysekhe, kicking Ford inside becomes a more viable option.  They may also draft an interior guy in the later rounds.  Plus there's free agency.  I believe Beane will add another guy to OL.

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

As far as being pushed around, I suspect Morse has something to do with this, especially in the 'A' gap.  He seemed to be kind of tentative in firing off the line; I don't know if it is because Morse is a little on the smaller side or concussion concerns.  Spain and Feliciano are bigger guys and I thought were more on the mauler side...though I could be wrong on this.

 

 

The game Morse went out after 16 snaps (Denver) was the Bills best rushing day of the season by a huge difference (nearly 75 yards better than our next best). He definitely to my mind was a big part of the issue in terms of trying to run straight ahead on 3rd and short. Morse has lots of qualities and I am not advocating benching him or cutting him or anything like that - but he is never going to dominate in the power run game. Just isn't who he is as a player. He is a technician not a road grader. 

[Happy]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The game Morse went out after 16 snaps (Denver) was the Bills best rushing day of the season by a huge difference (nearly 75 yards better than our next best). He definitely to my mind was a big part of the issue in terms of trying to run straight ahead on 3rd and short. Morse has lots of qualities and I am not advocating benching him or cutting him or anything like that - but he is never going to dominate in the power run game. Just isn't who he is as a player. He is a technician not a road grader. 

 

If this is the case, the guards need to pick up what Morse is not suited to do.  I don't know if Feliciano and Spain are not capable of this or if the blocking scheme does not allow for a power run game, which would be silly in short yardage situations.

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

If this is the case, the guards need to pick up what Morse is not suited to do.  I don't know if Feliciano and Spain are not capable of this or if the blocking scheme does not allow for a power run game, which would be silly in short yardage situations.

 

This team had games where the O-line took over and closed out games. In particular the 4 minute offense against a stout Titans team ran down their throats with Gore to close out the clock. 

[ColoradoBills]

Bills got 10 OL signed so far.  6 decent inside guys so I see another camp body UDFA type for sure.

Only 4 OTs with Dawkins and Nsekhe on their last year of contract.  Ford and Salako (camp body and I don't even

think he is still PS eligible this year).

 

A lot more RT/Swing Tackle competition needs to be signed.  Beane for sure has seen this and will be looking

at FA and Draft to fill it.

 

I am so looking forward to see what moves are going to be done to address this.  I would not 100% lock Nsekhe in at swing.

Ford will get a good long shot at proving he can be a RT irregardless of what some might think. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

This team had games where the O-line took over and closed out games. In particular the 4 minute offense against a stout Titans team ran down their throats with Gore to close out the clock. 

 

Also a game in which Morse had gone out injured prior to that point FWIW. 

[njbuff]

Cody Ford does have the talent to be a big time RT. There is no doubt about that.

 

We forget that he was a rookie in 2019. 

 

This is what McBeane is banking on with the re-signing of Spain.

 

He took his lumps, but he also flattened people in 2019.

 

We shall see.

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Cody Ford does have the talent to be a big time RT. There is no doubt about that.

 

We forget that he was a rookie in 2019. 

 

This is what McBeane is banking on with the re-signing of Spain.

 

He took his lumps, but he also flattened people in 2019.

 

We shall see.

Agreed but also I think it is agreed that Cody needs to be much better in pass protection

 

and that is coming from someone that loved the pick

[njbuff]

6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Agreed but also I think it is agreed that Cody needs to be much better in pass protection

 

and that is coming from someone that loved the pick

 

They think he will, otherwise they don't re-sign Spain.

[billsfan89]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Also a game in which Morse had gone out injured prior to that point FWIW. 

 

The Titans line was also banged up and other starters were out, I wouldn't put it as a knock on Mitch.