Tee Higgins was tired so he chose not to participate

[Don Otreply]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

This is the first year I didn’t watch any of the combine. And I am a big Draft Guy. I just think the NFL has put what used to be a draft evaluation event and made it an event that is just a money grab. So I refused to watch. 

Good on you ? I feel the same way. 

[whatdrought]

30 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I think unprepared might be more accurate.

it could be, but he also may have woken up that day and not felt right. This is a level of athletic performance that I think few of us have ever had to prepare for. If he wakes up and his body isn’t gonna be in its best possible position to succeed, it makes sense to sit. 

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He did interview... this is getting kind of extreme. Deandre Hopkins trashed a hotel room at the combine and he turned out pretty good. If teams are concerned he chose to do drills on pro day instead then they will dig deeper, but it’s not going to determine how good of a player he becomes. Some guys want to focus on football and not the combine drills. Totally different prep. 

Bad argument. Hopkins is a douche. ?

[stinky finger]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

it could be, but he also may have woken up that day and not felt right. This is a level of athletic performance that I think few of us have ever had to prepare for. If he wakes up and his body isn’t gonna be in its best possible position to succeed, it makes sense to sit. 

Bad argument. Hopkins is a douche. ?

 

As someone mentioned earlier - what if he feels this way on game day?

 

Gotta fight through. It speaks to character, imo.

[NewEra]

36 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s been down on him specifically as a fit for Josh Allen for awhile now. He didn’t think he’s a fit because he’s mostly a downfield guy and josh can’t hit those throws or at least hasn’t shown he can. Marino did a whole Shenault vs Higgins thing about a month ago. This is a great podcast.

Makes sense in a way. Allens strength isn’t throwing the deep ball but is it in part because he’s never had a real deep threat with height before?  He kind of did with foster 2 years ago and did ok.  
 

While he could be wasted because allen can’t throw the deep ball.....he could be exactly what allen needs in order to figure out how to throw the deep ball.  

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, inaugural balls said:

 

As someone mentioned earlier - what if he feels this way on game day?

 

Gotta fight through. It speaks to character, imo.

I think that’s a false equivalency. The only person beholden to his combine performance is himself. He can make that decision for himself and err on the side of caution. In a game situation he’s got 52 other guys counting on him and it’s a very different thing. 
 

I’m not sure why Chase Young gets off without question when he straight up said that the combine wasn’t worth his time, but Higgins gets railed because his body didn’t feel right that day. 
 

 

Don’t get me wrong, Higgins is pretty low on my list of desired players and I don’t care for him much, but I don’t think it’s honest or fair to take a DNP at the combine and use it for character assassination. 

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

As someone mentioned earlier - what if he feels this way on game day?

 

Gotta fight through. It speaks to character, imo.

How is game day comparable? Has he ever done this on game day? No. He got pulled from the fiesta bowl with concussion symptoms and fought to come back in the 2nd half. They took his helmet from him in the 1st half. He doesn’t need to fight through anything to do combine drills. It’s not even remotely the same thing imo. Combine drills show character? I’m confused. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[H2o]

Truth is he saw ole boy take a ball in the face and said, "Hell nah, that ain't gone be me."

[YoloinOhio]

This is what was going on this weekend btw - more guys will sit out next year imo

 

 

 

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 Combine drills show character? I’m confused. 

 

This is my last post on this, but I think the combine does show character.   

 

Sure, it's about test scores.   But it's also about how players go about the testing.  How do they interact with one another?     Do they want to excel?    Do they want to beat their competition?   Do they take a chance and put themselves on the line?    Or do they say I'm not good enough today, check back in a few weeks when I'm in a familiar and comfortable setting and can bring my binky with me?

 

Players can choose to compete or they can choose to sit.    Sure, there are plenty of examples of guys who DNP'd the combine and had careers in the NFL.     But I think the Bills need competitors, not transactional players...

[CEN-CAL17]

I like Tee Higgins. Some might say he’s not even the best WR on Clemsons roster. He did get dinged up from time to time...

 

My assumption is he will measure 6’4” 210, run a high 4.4, maybe 4.5. I doubt his 3 cone will be sub 7. Vert probably around 35-36.... Career at Clemson was roughly 130 receptions 2400 yds. Not bad for just over 2 years.

 

I like Mims and Jefferson better. Mims ran 4.38, fastest 3 cone in the combine with a ridiculous 6.66. 38” vert. Career stats nearly 200 receptions and 3000 yds 28 TDs.

 

Its gonna be a tough decision. Depending on how Higgins does, I think Juedy, Lamb, Ruggs, Mims, Jefferson, Shenault and Higgins have a great shot at going round 1. That’s 7 WRs. I think over under sits at 6.

 

 

[Philo]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s been down on him specifically as a fit for Josh Allen for awhile now. He didn’t think he’s a fit because he’s mostly a downfield guy and josh can’t hit those throws or at least hasn’t shown he can. Marino did a whole Shenault vs Higgins thing about a month ago. This is a great podcast.

 

I love Joe's podcast. I listen every day on my commute to work. 

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Philo said:

 

I love Joe's podcast. I listen every day on my commute to work. 

I like his balance toward the Bills. He is a fan, but critical where he feels warranted and mostly very objective. He has a lot of knowledge. I don’t always agree with his opinions but he always backs things up with how he comes to his opinions. Never agenda driven.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

How is game day comparable? Has he ever done this on game day? No. He got pulled from the fiesta bowl with concussion symptoms and fought to come back in the 2nd half. They took his helmet from him in the 1st half. He doesn’t need to fight through anything to do combine drills. It’s not even remotely the same thing imo. Combine drills show character? I’m confused. 

 

People who hate Higgins anyway throwing sticks. That is all this is. 

[Philo]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I like his balance toward the Bills. He is a fan, but critical where he feels warranted and mostly very objective. He has a lot of knowledge. I don’t always agree with his opinions but he always backs things up with how he comes to his opinions. Never agenda driven.

 

Completely agree. I never sense any kind of agenda and I have learned a lot of good stuff listening to him. Very knowledgeable and objective. 

 

Edit: As to Higgins, I don't feel strongly about him either way. I agree he's at or near the top of the "second" group of WRs and is great at some things and not so great at others. Hard for me to say though if those things he is great at are what the Bills are looking for specifically. So, I respect Joe's opinion and how he arrived to it, but if Higgins does end up a Bill, then I trust Beane's decision making process. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Philo

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

I'm talking about MY requirements for being a Bill.    I want players who compete.    Full stop.     

 

It doesn't mean others won't have different opinions of Higgins or Chaisson or Delpit.   Chase Young has nothing to prove, unlike Higgens.   

 

I doubt it'll change Tee's draft slot much, particularly with the teams that get player evaluations wrong year after year (the Jets, Dolphins, Redskins, etc. say hello).   But I also can't see it helping his "profile" with teams that place a high regard on character and competitiveness, like the Bills.

 

I'm not a Shenault fan, but I give him a lot of credit for running, knowing it could potentially hurt him.   That attitude is probably why his Colorado teammates supposedly loved him so much.    It's the type of football temperament that I (and likely McBeane as well) want to build a team around, even if I don't think Viska's worth a late first pick either...   

 

Higgins has showed plenty of character and competitiveness where it matters. On the football field. I don't think the Bills are going to draft him based on them not going to see Clemson at all this season so you will get your wish. But Tee Higgins has a chance to be a really good pro. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

This is what was going on this weekend btw - more guys will sit out next year imo

 

 

 

Spinning if you ask me. Football is nothing if not long periods of standing around doing nothing interrupted by short periods of intense activity. These guys 100% know how to not get injured/stay hydrated during an exercise like the combine.

 

If they want a piece of the ad revenue, by all means...just come out and say that. 

[WhoTom]

18 hours ago, White Linen said:

He said "he had a long season and only had 4-5 weeks to prepare for this compared to the other guys who had two months or a month."

 

If you take cold medicine, your cold will be gone in seven days.

If you don't take cold medicine, your cold will last an entire week!

 

My beard trimmer says that only one hour of charge time will give me sixty minutes of operation.

 

[Mickey]

2 hours ago, BobChalmers said:

 

How about, "he doesn't care about his new job enough to show up for the big interview day?"

 

Maybe if his mommy offered him another toy he'd show?

 

 

 

But he did show up, like , he was literally there. But again, no problem as long as folks are consistent and conclude that anyone who skipped the totally not mandatory drills is undraftable. 

 

I think an accurate hypothetical would be: Guy shows up for big interview, the terms of which were agreed upon ahead of time and includes that he can demo his skill set then and there or later or both, his choice. He then chooses and the interviewer has an online seizure over it.  

[stinky finger]

2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I think that’s a false equivalency. The only person beholden to his combine performance is himself. He can make that decision for himself and err on the side of caution. In a game situation he’s got 52 other guys counting on him and it’s a very different thing. 
 

I’m not sure why Chase Young gets off without question when he straight up said that the combine wasn’t worth his time, but Higgins gets railed because his body didn’t feel right that day. 
 

 

Don’t get me wrong, Higgins is pretty low on my list of desired players and I don’t care for him much, but I don’t think it’s honest or fair to take a DNP at the combine and use it for character assassination. 

 

I hear you.

 

To be clear, I don't necessarily have an issue with him more so the perception of those evaluators keeping tabs and weighing all info gathered. Potential fodder to lower his stock.

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

People who hate Higgins anyway throwing sticks. That is all this is. 

 

Not hating - just observing from high, high above.

[Mickey]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Nearly a dozen LSU kids took part in the combine, as did most of his Clemson teammates who were invited.    So how come Tee is so special?    

 

Another way to look at it is that the combine is analogous to a bowl game.    Players should show up and want to compete against the very best.    Not skip the "game" because they think it'll cost them money.    That's why you have pro days, so you can add data points (in addition to the combine) for teams to evaluate.    If a kid's that worried that it'll cost him $$$ because he only had 4-5 weeks to prepare, he's likely going to be the kind of mercenary, "transactional" NFL player that McDermott rails against.

 

Seems to me you have the equivalent "I like this guy so I don't see any warts" bias you accuse me of having against him.    I think character and competitiveness matter in player selection.    This is just another check mark as to why I don't want him as a Bill at #22...

 

 

 

Totally fair. I'll go make some popcorn while you draft your screeds against all the other guys who skipped the totally not mandatory drills at the combine. Because, you know, its not like you are biased against Higgins at all. Totally not. I am sure you have the inside dope on the advice he is getting from the experts he has hired to represent him who clearly haven't mastered the art of marketing a college athlete to a professional league like you have. Isn't it amazing how people who make a spectacularly successful living at doing this don't know how to do it half as well as you do? 

 

Oh, and btw, Higgins is way down on my list of WR's but because I am not impressed with his play on the field. He reminds me of Andre Holmes, not enough meat on his bones. I could give a fig what he says in a presser. I've done about 15 draft sims so far this off season and didn't take him once. Not with guys like Claypool, Gandy-golden, Pittman and Collin Johnson likely to be there in the third or even later. 

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I hear you.

 

To be clear, I don't necessarily have an issue with him more so the perception of those evaluators keeping tabs and weighing all info gathered. Potential fodder to lower his stock.

 

 

 

Yeah, and it probably does come into the mind of the actual decision makers... But the reality is, the NFL went out of their way to make a circus out of the Combine this year (even more than normal) and a lot of Players and their reps were very gunshy about submitting to it. I think that, depeding on behind the scenes factors that we don't know, that could have been the right choice. 

 

I still prefer most other WR's over Higgins, but that's more my Clemson bias and my hesitation about WR's from big schools with great teams around them and great QB's throwing them the ball (see also, Justin Jefferson). 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

this is fake news.    He scored on and end around and also a long bomb which was called back over bogus flag in that game 

Hardly Fake news.  He had 3 REC for 52 yards.  Five other players on the field had more.  Chase 9/221 2TD, Jefferson 9/106 even Ross and Galloway had more yds.  Do you really want your #1 pick, your stud posting those numbers in big games. He had the chance to up his game in the college playoffs and fell flat.  

Against OSU in the semi-final he was even worse. 4 REC 33 yards- 0 TD. Once again Ross has 6 catches and Etienne 98 yds receiving.  Higgins made no impact in the two biggest games of the year when the competition was at its best. I want my guys rising up when the occasion calls for it, not disappearing.  He got blanketed both games and couldn't make plays. Ross outplayed him most of the year, sans a few scrub matches where he boosted his numbers.

 

I say no to Higgins. But I do trust if Beaner picks him, he sees something worth developing. 

 

  

[stinky finger]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

How is game day comparable? Has he ever done this on game day? No. He got pulled from the fiesta bowl with concussion symptoms and fought to come back in the 2nd half. They took his helmet from him in the 1st half. He doesn’t need to fight through anything to do combine drills. It’s not even remotely the same thing imo. Combine drills show character? I’m confused. 

 

He could be tough as nails. Sounds like it from your post here.

 

Again, I was just talking perception and how this might slot him differently.

 

Or, it's entirely possible I'm way off.

[Mickey]

2 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I like Tee Higgins. Some might say he’s not even the best WR on Clemsons roster. He did get dinged up from time to time...

 

My assumption is he will measure 6’4” 210, run a high 4.4, maybe 4.5. I doubt his 3 cone will be sub 7. Vert probably around 35-36.... Career at Clemson was roughly 130 receptions 2400 yds. Not bad for just over 2 years.

 

I like Mims and Jefferson better. Mims ran 4.38, fastest 3 cone in the combine with a ridiculous 6.66. 38” vert. Career stats nearly 200 receptions and 3000 yds 28 TDs.

 

Its gonna be a tough decision. Depending on how Higgins does, I think Juedy, Lamb, Ruggs, Mims, Jefferson, Shenault and Higgins have a great shot at going round 1. That’s 7 WRs. I think over under sits at 6.

 

 

 

Mims is one of the guys that most grabs my attention on film. I like that he is a multiple sport guy, track and basketball. 

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, BobChalmers said:

 

How about, "he doesn't care about his new job enough to show up for the big interview day?"

 

Maybe if his mommy offered him another toy he'd show?

 

 

I’m not saying that I’m all on board with Higgins.  I’m not.  His speed and injury history are definitely concerns.  But criticism like the above is just juvenile BS.

[BobChalmers]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He did interview... this is getting kind of extreme. Deandre Hopkins trashed a hotel room at the combine and he turned out pretty good. If teams are concerned he chose to do drills on pro day instead then they will dig deeper, but it’s not going to determine how good of a player he becomes. Some guys want to focus on football and not the combine drills. Totally different prep. 

 

"Interview" was an analogy - when you're a draft candidate the whole event is the equivalent of an interview.

 

He didn't say he's working on football - he's claiming he's still tired from playing football - SIX WEEKS AGO - how is "Some guys want to focus on football and not the combine drills." remotely relevant here?

27 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I’m not saying that I’m all on board with Higgins.  I’m not.  His speed and injury history are definitely concerns.  But criticism like the above is just juvenile BS.

 

How so?  it's related to a true story about how he had to be bribed (with toys) to play football in the first place.  At some point the evidence starts to add up that he's not that interested in the game.  Not a certainty, but I'd be worried as hell drafting somebody with multiple incidents along a common theme.

Edited March 2, 2020 by BobChalmers

[BringBackFergy]

Not sure if anyone said this, but I believe Clemson’s pro day is one of many scheduled mid March. Part of the reason to run at the combine is to allow scouts to watch in person because they may be at another school’s pro day when Clemson has theirs. Just food for thought. 

[purple haze]

9 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Answer me this.   If you were interviewing a kid about to graduate from the Harvard or Wharton MBA program for a management trainee job and he said, "sorry I'm late, I had to grab some lunch because I missed breakfast" or "I had to call another recruiter back about a text they just sent me," would you still consider hiring them?

 

Football temperament and squad personality are intangible, yet important things.  You hear McBeane talk about them all the time.

 

  “We’ve got a tremendous culture and a tremendous locker room. It’s really about a transformational type of culture and locker room as opposed to transactional."

 

   "McDermott has been preaching a team-first culture since he arrived in 2017. After three seasons, he now has a handful of players who have both embraced that message and produced in a big way on the field in helping the Bills earn two playoff berths in three years."

 

The combine is an interview process, both in terms of gauging the players' personalities AND their ability to perform in a competitive setting.   Kids who don't rise to the challenge -- when so many others do -- are a big red flag for me.   And I suspect a lot of other NFL personnel would think like this as well... 

 

 

The analogy doesn't fit.  Two different industries with different norms.  Chase Young also didn't do on-field drills.  He's still going top 5: 1. Because his tape dictates that and 2. He will compete at the pro day and possibly in private workouts with teams drafting in the top 5.

 

To me, you and others are making a big deal out of Higgins because the Bills need a WR and Higgins is a possibility,  and you all wanted to see him perform now, now, now.  I get it.  But 1.  He will perform at pro day and private workouts, 2. Watch his game tape (that's what will carry more weight, and 3.  What teams gather from interviews, medical checks are more important than the combine drills.  And Higgins did those things.

 

 

[CEN-CAL17]

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

 

Mims is one of the guys that most grabs my attention on film. I like that he is a multiple sport guy, track and basketball. 

As of right now, pick 22 I have Mims and Jefferson.  

[wppete]

He’s not a competitor. A lot of stud receivers this year that are tough and compete, that’s what a Buffalo Bill is. Denzel Mims all day over Tee Higgins. 

[Dopey]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Nearly a dozen LSU kids took part in the combine, as did most of his Clemson teammates who were invited.    So how come Tee is so special?    

 

Another way to look at it is that the combine is analogous to a bowl game.    Players should show up and want to compete against the very best.    Not skip the "game" because they think it'll cost them money.    That's why you have pro days, so you can add data points (in addition to the combine) for teams to evaluate.    If a kid's that worried that it'll cost him $$$ because he only had 4-5 weeks to prepare, he's likely going to be the kind of mercenary, "transactional" NFL player that McDermott rails against.

 

Seems to me you have the equivalent "I like this guy so I don't see any warts" bias you accuse me of having against him.    I think character and competitiveness matter in player selection.    This is just another check mark as to why I don't want him as a Bill at #22...

 

 

They're not competing against anyone.

[wppete]

[Julio Hopkins]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

This is my last post on this, but I think the combine does show character.   

 

Sure, it's about test scores.   But it's also about how players go about the testing.  How do they interact with one another?     Do they want to excel?    Do they want to beat their competition?   Do they take a chance and put themselves on the line?    Or do they say I'm not good enough today, check back in a few weeks when I'm in a familiar and comfortable setting and can bring my binky with me?

 

Players can choose to compete or they can choose to sit.    Sure, there are plenty of examples of guys who DNP'd the combine and had careers in the NFL.     But I think the Bills need competitors, not transactional players...

 

God, if only the college football players played games before hand to give scouts that exact information.  

[Nester]

No thanks to super soft players

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, BobChalmers said:

 

How so?  it's related to a true story about how he had to be bribed (with toys) to play football in the first place.  At some point the evidence starts to add up that he's not that interested in the game.  Not a certainty, but I'd be worried as hell drafting somebody with multiple incidents along a common theme.

Yes, don’t draft a guy because when he was 6 or 7 years old he wanted to play with Hot Wheels cars and not sports.  Seems like pretty iron clad logic there.  Now judging by your juvenile comments in your previous post you might not have changed a lot since then, but most of us did in the years between 6 and 21.

 

Care to tell us about all the incidents along that common theme?  Was when he realized his blocking was lacking and he busted his hump to become an good blocker?  Or in HS when he saw his team in need of a CB so he told his coach he wanted to learn to play it - and became a lockdown there?

 

Again, legit reasons for concern with him at 22, but you’re ignoring those for this crap. 

[without a drought]

I also skipped the workouts at the combine.

 

I don't think it will have any effect on my draft status 

[Buffalo716]

27 minutes ago, without a drought said:

I also skipped the workouts at the combine.

 

I don't think it will have any effect on my draft status 

Not at all

 

Still a possible camp invite.. or priority hot dog vendor it's a toss up

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

As of right now, pick 22 I have Mims and Jefferson.  

 

I wouldn't take either at #22. I can at least see the potential with Mims though to me he is raw to be in that first round conversation. I am the opposite of Jefferson. Jefferson to me is who he is. An effective, relatively polished big slot guy. High floor, but low ceiling. No way I would take him in the first he is the guy I am set against as a first round pick. 

12 hours ago, wppete said:

He’s not a competitor. A lot of stud receivers this year that are tough and compete, that’s what a Buffalo Bill is. Denzel Mims all day over Tee Higgins. 

 

He is. 

[Starr Almighty]

On 3/1/2020 at 5:07 PM, White Linen said:

He said "he had a long season and only had 4-5 weeks to prepare for this compared to the other guys who had two months or a month."

 

 

My math may be off here but aren't 4-5 weeks = to a month?

[YoloinOhio]

26 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said:

My math may be off here but aren't 4-5 weeks = to a month?

He said two months, not one month

 

 

On 3/1/2020 at 6:13 PM, Bakin said:

Please tell me this was his actual quote so I can drop him out of top 3 round consideration. 

It was a made up quote for some reason. This is what he said

 

“We had a long season and I only had four or five weeks to prepare for this, and I feel like that's not enough time to compared to all these other guys who had two months," Higgins told Colleen Wolfe and Andrew Hawkins as part of NFL Media's Scouting Combine Today.