Safety Kyle Drugger With Bills First Round Pick?

[That's No Moon]

26 minutes ago, BBILL12 said:

A lot of people said this about Kahlil Mack as a linebacker..........

UB is D-1.  It's lower level D1 but it's still D1.  D2 is completely different and it's frankly not even close to the same level of competition. I went to a D2 school. There are three kinds of kids who play D2 as opposed to D1.  

1. D1 transfers who flamed out for whatever reason and who didn't want to sit out a year transferring 

2. D1 level players who have horrible grades, test scores or major major character concerns 

3. Players who started out late or were under-recruited had no D1 offers and ended up going to a D2 school for a chance to play.

4. Players who are truly D2 level players meaning not good enough to play D1 or D1-AA (FCS or FBS)

 

Categories 1 and 2 are smaller than category 3 and Categories 1, 2, and 3 are smaller than category 4.

 

D2 is mostly made up of players who were good but not great in high school or maybe even great in some cases but who have bad measurables.  It's not being disparaging to say that.  It's just the truth.

 

When I was at IUP we had 2 players go the NFL and they were insanely good at the D2 level.  One was OT Leander Jordan who was a 3rd round pick of the Panthers - he was category 3.  Huge guy, good athlete, no offers.  The other was TE John Jones was category 1 (despite what his Wiki says). He transferred to IUP from Pitt, was really good at D2 ended up a UDFA and played 3 seasons with the Ravens and won a Super Bowl.  That's all.  Nobody else.   

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Well, sure, but how valuable? 

 

If your team can't shut down the run or pressure the QB, you don't need to be Kamarra or Hill to get open.  The best defensive backfield in the league will eventually get burned.

 

And if your offense can't score points, that's a problem too.

And yet, the defensive backfield was the first position group the current HC chose to overhaul during the 2017 off-season.  I understood why, but it isn't the force multiplier that some make it out to be.  

 

Beane made an interesting comment at the end of season PC: "And a lot of times, if you make the playoffs your last game is kind of emblematic of—if you don’t win it all, whether you go to the championship game or lose like we did—a lot of times it kind of shows you where your season went, where you’re good and where you need to get better. And I thought we saw that [on Saturday], we just didn’t score enough points."

 

DE is probably the only position on defense this team should be going in round 1.  That PC doesn't lock them in to anything and was held before the bulk of off-season amateur and pro evaluation decisions.  Yet, it'd be hard to get believe they're committed to offense with another first round defensive pick.  They've already placed 3 1sts on that side of the ball, but the HC is who he is. 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Interesting little tid-bit.  Kyle Drugger’s last name used to be Cosby.  He changed it for obvious reasons....

But he chose a synonym ?

[Bookie Man]

Who's Kyle Drugger?

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He is a good prospect but don’t think he is a 1st rounder

He's definitely really high on scouts boards

 

All it takes is one team to love him and he can go 25-32

 

He definitely won't make it out of round 2 imo. 6' 220 4.4 40 .. 11-12 ft broad jump , had a 40 inch vertical

 

He's a specimen

[Sherlock Holmes]

Nah, trade for Harrison Smith then

[Buffalo716]

53 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

UB is D-1.  It's lower level D1 but it's still D1.  D2 is completely different and it's frankly not even close to the same level of competition. I went to a D2 school. There are three kinds of kids who play D2 as opposed to D1.  

1. D1 transfers who flamed out for whatever reason and who didn't want to sit out a year transferring 

2. D1 level players who have horrible grades, test scores or major major character concerns 

3. Players who started out late or were under-recruited had no D1 offers and ended up going to a D2 school for a chance to play.

4. Players who are truly D2 level players meaning not good enough to play D1 or D1-AA (FCS or FBS)

 

Categories 1 and 2 are smaller than category 3 and Categories 1, 2, and 3 are smaller than category 4.

 

D2 is mostly made up of players who were good but not great in high school or maybe even great in some cases but who have bad measurables.  It's not being disparaging to say that.  It's just the truth.

 

When I was at IUP we had 2 players go the NFL and they were insanely good at the D2 level.  One was OT Leander Jordan who was a 3rd round pick of the Panthers - he was category 3.  Huge guy, good athlete, no offers.  The other was TE John Jones was category 1 (despite what his Wiki says). He transferred to IUP from Pitt, was really good at D2 ended up a UDFA and played 3 seasons with the Ravens and won a Super Bowl.  That's all.  Nobody else.   

It's usually totally the measurable part man. About 1% of D2 players weren't great in HS.

 

They were ALL all area or all section..Usually just from small HSs or towns that get breezed over

 

Rarely do you get a scrub that can even hang at a D2 school... D3 schools are filled with players that were all conference and in all star games and just don't have measurables .. D2 ain't FCS or FBS but they ain't scrubs

 

I've been to plenty D2 games scouting

Edited February 22, 2020 by Buffalo716

[That's No Moon]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's usually totally the measurable part man. About 1% of D2 players weren't great in HS.

 

They were ALL all area or all section..Usually just from small HSs or towns that get breezed over

 

Rarely do you get a scrub that can even hang at a D2 school... D3 schools are filled with players that were all conference and in all star games and just don't have measurables .. D2 ain't FCS or FBS but they ain't scrubs

 

I've been to plenty D2 games scouting

I guess it depends what you define as good and great but we are on the same page here.

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

I guess it depends what you define as good and great but we are on the same page here.

I mean D1 players are 1% of football players. Top of the top. You need size, athleticism and football skills and grades

 

D2 players generally lack in the size or grades or athleticism ... Not football skill

 

As I said the majority of D2 schools are filled with sectional all stars and and all regional player's.. just don't have the size or athleticism for D1 ball

 

My local D3 school is FILLED with All WNY and all sectional players. You probably aren't making the team unless you were a sectional or regional stud

Edited February 22, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Fan in Chicago]

6 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

 

 

He is said to be the prototypical Big Nickel DB that McDermott covets. He’s over 6 feet and is expected to run in the sub 4.4 range in the 40. Would this board lose it’s collective mind if the Bills went safety in Rd 1?

 

This is the annual baiting of Bill in NYC thread, isn't it ?

[purple haze]

6 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

This...he’s a day 2 guy.

 

Side note: James Bradberry is a name to watch in early FA.

Bradberry's going to get well paid, and the Bills have to extend Tre.  You think Beane ties up that much money on the CB spot?  I don't see it.

[Aussie Joe]

At pick 22?

 

Get off the druggers!

[mannc]

Wow, what a terrible idea.

[GreggTX]

Why in the world would we use a 1st round pick to bolster the strongest position on the roster? That makes even less sense as drafting a RB in the 1st. I'd be fine with a QB, but not our least need. We have many positions that could use upgrades. I'm pretty sure we can find a good match between need and talent. We just need Beane to start hitting on these 1st rounders.

[PIZ]

Process. 
 

 

 

[Hardhatharry]

5 hours ago, PIZ said:

Watch his punt returns. 
 

 

 

 

Punt returns lol

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

A D2 SAFETY in the first rd?  I guess there is a first time for everything 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Mr. WEO]

A Safety in his mid 20's at an obscure Leanne Rhymes Div 2 school (redshirted as a freshman after 1 year as a football player in. HS!!!) as the 1st round pick?

 

Fairburn engaging in shameless LAMP'ing.  

[Buffalo716]

36 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

A Safety in his mid 20's at an obscure Leanne Rhymes Div 2 school (redshirted as a freshman after 1 year as a football player in. HS!!!) as the 1st round pick?

 

Fairburn engaging in shameless LAMP'ing.  

He's gonna go in the top 60

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He's gonna go in the top 60

 

 

Maybe.  Not top 32...

[That's No Moon]

After watching that highlight reel (where he is out athleteing everyone) I'm not sure I see a safety. I think I see an OLB that stays on the field in nickel linebacker. He's 6'2, 220 lbs which is plenty big enough in the current NFL. He also looks like a big framed kid that could add 10 pounds in an NFL weight room with no problem.  If he runs well and that's the plan with him color me intrigued. Not first round intrigued, but intrigued. He and Edmunds would shut that short passing game down.

I'm still worried about the jump in competition but I could be sold if this is what he does regularly. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by That's No Moon

[Augie]

4 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

At pick 22?

 

Get off the druggers!

 

Do you think this would get a worse reception than Donte Whitner? 

 

Hey, the guy may be a future Pro Bowler, but D2 at 22? I’m guessing that’s a big NO. 

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Maybe.  Not top 32...

All it takes is 1 team to love him. He has prototype size and speed and great tape

 

Janoris Jenkins was D2 and went round 2 and he doenst have the physical gifts of Dugger

[GG]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

A Safety in his mid 20's at an obscure Leanne Rhymes Div 2 school (redshirted as a freshman after 1 year as a football player in. HS!!!) as the 1st round pick?

 

Fairburn engaging in shameless LAMP'ing.  

 

Fairburn admitted to it on the podcast.  

 

He mocked Dugger for Bills in the 1st round, but acknowledged that the ideal situation would be for Bills to trade down and select Dugger later.  

 

Fairburn's mindset is that Bills are looking OT in the first round, and with the best players gone by 22, he's picking BPA.   He didn't reach for a WR at #22 because he didn't think there would be a huge drop off between #22 and #56 in terms of WR talent, and more people are starting to think that Dugger is special.

[JerseyBills]

11 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

I haven’t seen his name addressed here but in a column at The Athletic, Matthew Fairburn suggests there his evidence that the Division II S might be the Bills’ guy. Here’s an excerpt:

 

“In my story on Lenoir Rhyne defensive back Kyle Dugger, I noted the Bills had shown strong interest in the Division II standout. They sent three high-ranking members of their scouting staff to Hickory, N.C. to see Dugger in person and by all accounts were there as often as any team in the league. That carries more weight when you consider Lenoir Rhyne isn’t a typical stop on the scouting trail for those making the rounds.”

 

“Does that mean the Bills will take Dugger at No. 22? Maybe. There are too many variables to ever pin down a team’s draft plans. Who else will be on the board? Will another team offer a strong enough package to convince the Bills to trade down? Will Dugger be worth that pick?”

 

He is said to be the prototypical Big Nickel DB that McDermott covets. He’s over 6 feet and is expected to run in the sub 4.4 range in the 40. Would this board lose it’s collective mind if the Bills went safety in Rd 1?

I would be a little baffled by the pick but I have full confidence in this coaching staff and Front office and trust their decision making. 

 

But I thought McD was comfortable with Neal in that Big Nickel role.  So I'd be surprised to see addressing this in Rd 1

 

We have an elite D , I'm all for building on a strength and building a potentially all time great Defense.. 

 

 

 

Remember when Singletary was picked and ppl kinda lost it on here. We had Shady,Gore,Yeldon and ppl felt we just wasted a 3rd on a loaded position. Turned out to be a steal and RB wasn't as strong as we thought. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by JerseyBills

[That's No Moon]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Janoris Jenkins was D2 and went round 2 and he doenst have the physical gifts of Dugger

Janoris Jenkins was a D2 transfer out of U of Florida.

 

Just pointing out that it's a different path.  Dugger was recruited to play D2 and played D2, Jenkins was recruited to a top flight D1 school and transferred down to D2 because of issues. Jenkins had 3 years worth of SEC tape. Dugger does not.

[Teddy KGB]

 

[OldTimer1960]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Fairburn admitted to it on the podcast.  

 

He mocked Dugger for Bills in the 1st round, but acknowledged that the ideal situation would be for Bills to trade down and select Dugger later.  

 

Fairburn's mindset is that Bills are looking OT in the first round, and with the best players gone by 22, he's picking BPA.   He didn't reach for a WR at #22 because he didn't think there would be a huge drop off between #22 and #56 in terms of WR talent, and more people are starting to think that Dugger is special.

The difficulty with scouting him is that most backups from Bama, Ohio State, LSU and other D1 schools would dominate D2 competition as well.   Dugger dominating that level only says that he passed that low bar.  That he reportedly showed well at the Senior Bowl is positive, but doesn’t automatically make him a first round candidate.

 

On the downside, he will be 24 years old before the draft.  Unless he tests totally through the roof, it would take big b*lls for a GM to take him even in round 2.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Janoris Jenkins was a D2 transfer out of U of Florida.

 

Just pointing out that it's a different path.  Dugger was recruited to play D2 and played D2, Jenkins was recruited to a top flight D1 school and transferred down to D2 because of issues. Jenkins had 3 years worth of SEC tape. Dugger does not.

That's true but there are also guys like Ali marpart who is a very good guard

 

Not everyone develops at the same rate. This kid isn't 5'10 185lbs. He's 6' 220 runs a 4.4 with a 40 inch vertical

 

And has great tape. The only unknown is can he translate. Physically he has it

[That's No Moon]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

That's true but there are also guys like Ali marpart who is a very good guard

 

Not everyone develops at the same rate. This kid isn't 5'10 185lbs. He's 6' 220 runs a 4.4 with a 40 inch vertical

 

And has great tape. The only unknown is can he translate. Physically he has it

I'm with you.  Just not in round 1.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

The difficulty with scouting him is that most backups from Bama, Ohio State, LSU and other D1 schools would dominate D2 competition as well.   Dugger dominating that level only says that he passed that low bar.  That he reportedly showed well at the Senior Bowl is positive, but doesn’t automatically make him a first round candidate.

 

On the downside, he will be 24 years old before the draft.  Unless he tests totally through the roof, it would take big b*lls for a GM to take him even in round 2.

24 is old for a QB prospect, he is a safety LBr hybrid. Age is irrelevant..  the only thing that matters is if his talents will translate

Just now, That's No Moon said:

I'm with you.  Just not in round 1.

I wouldn't take him round 1 but round 2 would certainly be intriguing depending how round 1 went

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

24 is old for a QB prospect, he is a safety LBr hybrid. Age is irrelevant..  the only thing that matters is if his talents will translate

I respect your knowledge and scouting - how can you tell if his tape is great against that level of competition?  He clearly has NFL size and speed, so he SHOULD look great in D2.  The only relevant competition he has faced was at the Senior Bowl.

 

I’m not saying that he can’t be great - only that drafting him will be based almost entirely on size/athletic traits and that is risky.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I respect your knowledge and scouting - how can you tell if his tape is great against that level of competition?  He clearly has NFL size and speed, so he SHOULD look great in D2.  The only relevant competition he has faced was at the Senior Bowl.

 

I’m not saying that he can’t be great - only that drafting him will be based almost entirely on size/athletic traits and that is risky.

You are absolutely correct and your right his tape should look phenomenal. There is very few instances like this to look at

 

It's all projection and he can very well be overmatched in the NFL. His physical traits are awesome, and he showed well at the Senior bowl but that is all we know

 

It is totally a projection and the physical tools are what has scouts interested

 

[IgotBILLStopay]

14 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

I haven’t seen his name addressed here but in a column at The Athletic, Matthew Fairburn suggests there his evidence that the Division II S might be the Bills’ guy. Here’s an excerpt:

 

“In my story on Lenoir Rhyne defensive back Kyle Dugger, I noted the Bills had shown strong interest in the Division II standout. They sent three high-ranking members of their scouting staff to Hickory, N.C. to see Dugger in person and by all accounts were there as often as any team in the league. That carries more weight when you consider Lenoir Rhyne isn’t a typical stop on the scouting trail for those making the rounds.”

 

“Does that mean the Bills will take Dugger at No. 22? Maybe. There are too many variables to ever pin down a team’s draft plans. Who else will be on the board? Will another team offer a strong enough package to convince the Bills to trade down? Will Dugger be worth that pick?”

 

He is said to be the prototypical Big Nickel DB that McDermott covets. He’s over 6 feet and is expected to run in the sub 4.4 range in the 40. Would this board lose it’s collective mind if the Bills went safety in Rd 1?

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I dont mind him in the second (if he falls that far), but will pass on him in the first - we have more pressing needs.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, GG said:

 

Fairburn admitted to it on the podcast.  

 

He mocked Dugger for Bills in the 1st round, but acknowledged that the ideal situation would be for Bills to trade down and select Dugger later.  

 

Fairburn's mindset is that Bills are looking OT in the first round, and with the best players gone by 22, he's picking BPA.   He didn't reach for a WR at #22 because he didn't think there would be a huge drop off between #22 and #56 in terms of WR talent, and more people are starting to think that Dugger is special.

 

He thinks they want an OT at 22...and if their best choice is gone, they go for the D2 kid as the "BPA"?

 

All of that is a nightmare scenario.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

21 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

I haven’t seen his name addressed here but in a column at The Athletic, Matthew Fairburn suggests there his evidence that the Division II S might be the Bills’ guy. Here’s an excerpt:

 

“In my story on Lenoir Rhyne defensive back Kyle Dugger, I noted the Bills had shown strong interest in the Division II standout. They sent three high-ranking members of their scouting staff to Hickory, N.C. to see Dugger in person and by all accounts were there as often as any team in the league. That carries more weight when you consider Lenoir Rhyne isn’t a typical stop on the scouting trail for those making the rounds.”

 

“Does that mean the Bills will take Dugger at No. 22? Maybe. There are too many variables to ever pin down a team’s draft plans. Who else will be on the board? Will another team offer a strong enough package to convince the Bills to trade down? Will Dugger be worth that pick?”

 

He is said to be the prototypical Big Nickel DB that McDermott covets. He’s over 6 feet and is expected to run in the sub 4.4 range in the 40. Would this board lose it’s collective mind if the Bills went safety in Rd 1?

 

division 2 has me more concerned in the first round than safety.

 

 

[CSBill]

Appears to be a great athlete, but so hard to judge his abilities potential against the lower level of competition. Just can't see any team taking a 1st round chance on a player from Lenoir Rhyne. But, as many have pointed out, the Combine will be a big factor.

[mannc]

10 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Remember when Singletary was picked and ppl kinda lost it on here. 

No, I don’t.

[auburnbillsbacker]

22 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He’d fit the hybrid Shaq Thompson role in McD’s defense and I can see it happening.  At some point however, they’re going to have to have the organizational discipline in place to build a modern offense and add touchdown makers.  It’s gonna be tough for McBeane to stretch outside of their comfort zones and pass up on defensive talent they know how to scout and utilize in their scheme - but they’ve GOT to do it.

 

I’d be ok with the pick so long as they trade back up for pass catchers.  They also need offensive line help, a running back and a tight end so....

They are really good at evaluating and drafting defensive players.  Maybe it is best to lean on free agency to fill offensive needs.  

[Rochesterfan]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Right on

 

So the stuff that Beane said in his post-season presser about not being "players at the deep end" of FA can be interpreted different ways, but several of the reporters who were there including @Matt Parrino *seem* to have interpreted it as I did, namely "don't expect the Bills to blow the Salary Cap chasing 1 or 2 big name high priced FA this year"

 

If we follow along in FA and trade with what I think Beane meant - we go after a handful of more "sleeper" medium-price guys for competition at WR/TE/OL/Edge/LB - then how do you feel about this?

 

Frankly, Beane and Co have to be able to evaluate and draft talent on both sides of the ball.

 

 

I tend to agree with this take.  I'm not much on "Top 100 Big Boards" for deciding who different teams will draft or as an absolute talent guy, but there was certainly a point (say, 2005-2011 or so) where I could have chosen a Fan Jury off this board and we could have more consistently drafted a higher level of NFL football talent than the Bills did....Truth Hurts. 

 

Hopefully those days are gone.

 

I think it is very relevant what was said at the end of year PC about what to expect in the off season.  I do not expect then to go out and sign top flight talent in FA.  I think they will use FA to once again fill all of the holes and upgrade some talent levels (see OT, WR, and DE), but it is not going to be the #1 guy at those positions.  
 

I also believe just like last year - if a true #1 WR is available via trade - Beane will be talking to the teams and trying to work something out if he thinks the deal works.

 

For this to be ok to me (and I really doubt it will get there) - Beane needs to get that legit WR (maybe a Diggs type - not an AJ Green type - younger, fast, good catch radius - a guy you can still build around).  They also need to improve talent at DE and OT - so they can strictly be working BPA.  Finally you have to assume Kyle is the BPA at that spot.  To me none of those things will line up at the Bills pick in the 1st round, but if they do then fine - I will be happy with the pick.

 

The second statement is true of all teams, but Beane has shown they are good at drafting - just look at the team and the age of the starters at most important positions.  The thing is - a good FO also must understand their strengths and weaknesses- especially when it comes to the draft.  Some teams excel at identifying players at certain positions and struggle with players at other positions.  If the recognize that - they can draft well and make sure they are hitting those strong positions early and hitting the weaker positions later and less often and supplementing that with FA and trades to get proven talent.
 

NE often struggles with WR and DB in their drafts - so they hit those positions via FA and Trades - even with drafting a WR in round 1 last year - he looked like a potential weakness so much that they signed WRs in FA and signed then AB in season and also traded for a WR in season.  Their best CBs were all guys they picked up in FA.  They struggle with those positions, but recognize it and supplement those areas via FA and trades.  

Edited February 23, 2020 by Rochesterfan