Kobe Bryant: Killed in Helicopter crash (update: NTSB prelim. report)

[707BillsFan]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I'm trying to get over the idea of taking a helicopter to a kid's basketball practice.

 

Tell me about it ... My wife was joking that one of the Kardashians or Jenner's took their newborn to their first Disneyland trip the other day. There was a photo of the kid on a plane. They live in Calabasas, an hour or so from Disneyland. Why do you need a plane for that trip? Or in this case...helicopter. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

55 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Felicia is a 'journalist' for the Washington post. This discussion on how he was flawed could be had after family, friends and fans could have absorbed the news and grieved.

 

What dirt does Felicia have on Kobe's daughter and the others killed in this accident? I can't wait for that. What about the total disregard for the Bryant Family? Does anyone think they want this?

 

A real journalist would have waited a while and used that time to put together a story on the tragic loss of life, and then have a civil discussion about Kobe's life; good and bad. It could have been used as a piece that led to a more general discussion about the complexity of the human condition, or how much slack we give our sports and entertainment heroes, but nope. Bodies aren't even cold and this piece of human garbage can't wait to use it as a platform. We get this vile trash instead.

 

I am truly disgusted.

 

RIP Black Mamba. RIP Little Mamba.

 

My sincere condolences to the Bryant Family, Altobelli Family, and the Laker Nation.

 

I share the feeling that the moment one hears about a man's death along with his child is not the time to summarize his life as its worst known incident

However, the article linked was first published in 2016, it's not a piece that was rushed to press today.

 

I also can't go along with calling the reporter "human garbage" and "vile trash" for putting out the link.  Believe it or don't, it is a part of Kobe's life story.  Just a part, but there it is.

[aristocrat]

any time i randomly throw something into the garbage, or playing on my kids hoop or just throwing it around in the gym i'd always randomly yell kobe after the shot.  it's funny how the guy got into people's lives like that.  so many lives cut short and people who were gonna make some marks on the world.  tough loss

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I share the feeling that the moment one hears about a man's death along with his child is not the time to summarize his life as its worst known incident

However, the article linked was first published in 2016, it's not a piece that was rushed to press today.

 

I also can't go along with calling the reporter "human garbage" and "vile trash" for putting out the link.  Believe it or don't, it is a part of Kobe's life story.  Just a part, but there it is.

I think culturally we pretend we know these guys a lot more than we really do. Makes us all part of the team to do so.
 

I’ve tried to shift away from “Kobe’s amazing” to “Kobe’s tenacity on the court is impressive” as we don’t know much about any of the people in their day to day but certainly can admire traits. It’s one I backslide on a lot, as it’s so culturally ingrained though.

 

[YoloinOhio]

We can, of course, mourn imperfect people. 
 

 

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I think culturally we pretend we know these guys a lot more than we really do. Makes us all part of the team to do so.
 

I’ve tried to shift away from “Kobe’s amazing” to “Kobe’s tenacity on the court is impressive” as we don’t know much about any of the people in their day to day but certainly can admire traits. It’s one I backslide on a lot, as it’s so culturally ingrained though.

 

 

This is a big part of why I am not a jersey guy. I don’t know these guys or what they represent. I’m a fan of the team, but won’t idolize some guy because he can shoot the three or sack the QB. I’ll buy Bills gear and represent in that fashion.

 

Nothing wrong with those who want to go that route, but it’s just not my thing. 

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

We can, of course, mourn imperfect people. 
 

 

 

For we are ALL imperfect! 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

14 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I think culturally we pretend we know these guys a lot more than we really do. Makes us all part of the team to do so.
 

I’ve tried to shift away from “Kobe’s amazing” to “Kobe’s tenacity on the court is impressive” as we don’t know much about any of the people in their day to day but certainly can admire traits. It’s one I backslide on a lot, as it’s so culturally ingrained though.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is a big part of why I am not a jersey guy. I don’t know these guys or what they represent. I’m a fan of the team, but won’t idolize some guy because he can shoot the three or sack the QB. I’ll buy Bills gear and represent in that fashion.

 

Nothing wrong with those who want to go that route, but it’s just not my thing. 

 

For we are ALL imperfect! 

I understand this, but honestly think you guys are overthinking this. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being a super fan of athletes both on and off the field based on what we can know about them. Josh Allen, for example, seems like a great guy and someone I can really get into rooting for because he seems like a great player and a great person. 
 

We could be wrong about them in the end, but so what? Then we’re wrong. 

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

I've only once ever reported a tweet, and it was about 5 mins ago of someone saying how f-Ed up it was that we're celebrating a sexual predator as a father and a hero. Man people are brutal

False accusations like the one leveled at Bryant should have MUCH stiffer penalties. It's really difficult to disprove a rape allegation, but this one came pretty close.

[sherpa]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

it was enough for him to quit the school so ...

 

i imagine planes are a little safer, he said something about anti rotation being a big problem.

 

 

 

The actual term is "autorotation."

 

Its what helo folks do to minimize crashes by attempting to minimize the sink rate during an engine failure.

During normal flight, air is pulled down from above.

If the main rotor system is not being powered, an autorotation is done and the air goes up through the rotor.

 

Not a helicopter fan. Way too many moving parts.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

 

I understand this, but honestly think you guys are overthinking this. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being a super fan of athletes both on and off the field based on what we can know about them. Josh Allen, for example, seems like a great guy and someone I can really get into rooting for because he seems like a great player and a great person. 
 

We could be wrong about them in the end, but so what? Then we’re wrong. 

 

My son has a Josh Allen jersey and I love it. Christmas gift from his fiancé who checked with me for the suggestion. (She already knew the answer, she’s awesome!)

 

If I had to pick, a Kyle Allen jersey would be my choice today. Having said that, an OJ jersey probably would have been my pick way back when. God bless the jersey folks because I love how it makes us look when we represent! It’s just not MY thing. To each their own. 

 

GO BILLS! 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

The actual term is "autorotation."

 

Its what helo folks do to minimize crashes by attempting to minimize the sink rate during an engine failure.

During normal flight, air is pulled down from above.

If the main rotor system is not being powered, an autorotation is done and the air goes up through the rotor.

 

Not a helicopter fan. Way too many moving parts.

 

As my Airforce buddies say when talking about why they never want to fly in helicopters:

 

"Planes use physics to work with the air so the air wants to keep them afloat. Whereas helicopters just beat the air into submission."

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

He wasn't a horrible human; he wasn't a great human; he was just human. He was a great basketball player and he affected a lot of people through that career.

 

Why do people have to hit the extremes with their comments on this?

 

Just accept the whole truth and reflect on it.

 

Reading the stuff about him and his daughter is sad. I'll definitely translate the personal effects of this story to my own life in a positive way.

Good post. I will say, beyond basketball and celebrity, there WAS something "extraordinary" about Bryant. Not extraordinary in the sense that he was a saint or a monster. Extraordinary in the sense that he had an aura that is rare. A certain energy that made you want to know more. There were thoughts behind his facial expressions, and when he chose to express his thoughts, they were poignant, thought provoking, and even inspirational.

 

I believe that "aura" is the reason this news is hitting people like a ton of bricks. 

[RocCityRoller]

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I share the feeling that the moment one hears about a man's death along with his child is not the time to summarize his life as its worst known incident

However, the article linked was first published in 2016, it's not a piece that was rushed to press today.

 

I also can't go along with calling the reporter "human garbage" and "vile trash" for putting out the link.  Believe it or don't, it is a part of Kobe's life story.  Just a part, but there it is.

 

I appreciate the reply. No where in my post did I sugar coat or ignore that Kobe, like Felicia, and all of us are all flawed. I think it is vile to bring this up as soon as his death is announced, if not for Kobe, then for his family and friends. What was the motive?

 

The tweet was sent out today, within hours of the reported death, with a link to the article from the past. Why feel the need to drudge up the past as soon as the death is reported?

[LeGOATski]

12 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Good post. I will say, beyond basketball and celebrity, there WAS something "extraordinary" about Bryant. Not extraordinary in the sense that he was a saint or a monster. Extraordinary in the sense that he had an aura that is rare. A certain energy that made you want to know more. There were thoughts behind his facial expressions, and when he chose to express his thoughts, they were poignant, thought provoking, and even inspirational.

 

I believe that "aura" is the reason this news is hitting people like a ton of bricks. 

I'll give you that. To me he was just a great basketball player and personality. The only "extraordinary" part of him was his basketball feats. Even as a Celtics fan, and after the scandal, I definitely respected Bryant and wanted to watch him play if I had the chance.

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I appreciate the reply. No where in my post did I sugar coat or ignore that Kobe, like Felicia, and all of us are all flawed. I think it is vile to bring this up as soon as his death is announced, if not for Kobe, then for his family and friends. What was the motive?

 

The tweet was sent out today, within hours of the reported death, with a link to the article from the past. Why feel the need to drudge up the past as soon as the death is reported?

where in are the limits drawn on where you can cross over from celebrating the best of lives to acknowledging the worst? 

 

were comments about Michael Jackson’s scandals off limits?

 

when OJ passes can only football be celebrated? 
 

aaron Hernandez’s suicide?

how many hours or days before it’s discussed?

 

its a clumsy and messy issue dealing with celebrity deaths in the social media age. Especially ones with serious accusations. There’s no one size fits all. The family of his accuser probably feel a bit crummy with each celebration of him the last decade or so. Perspective is a hell of a thing and if you had been raped by a man in power you may appreciate seeing some acknowledgement today.

 

that said, I won’t pretend all bringing it up truly have good intentions in their hearts either. You just kind of have to roll with it being a spectrum when you invite a billion people to the discussion 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, 707BillsFan said:

Tell me about it ... My wife was joking that one of the Kardashians or Jenner's took their newborn to their first Disneyland trip the other day. There was a photo of the kid on a plane. They live in Calabasas, an hour or so from Disneyland. Why do you need a plane for that trip? Or in this case...helicopter. 

Calabasas?  An hour from Disneyland?  Bwahahaha. You NorCal people are so cute. It takes an hour to get to Disneyland from the Anaheim exit off the 5 freeway.  ?

 

You can afford a copter you take a copter. 

[LSHMEAB]

4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I'll give you that. To me he was just a great basketball player and personality. The only "extraordinary" part of him was his basketball feats. Even as a Celtics fan, and after the scandal, I definitely respected Bryant and wanted to watch him play if I had the chance.

If it weren't for basketball, none of us would have any idea who he was. 

 

But there was something about the guy that I can't articulate properly. Handsome/really intelligent guy with an incredible drive. Mysterious in a sense.(Sounds melodramatic)

 

I wasn't even a fan. I hate the Lakers to be entirely honest. But I'm trying to figure out why his death is hitting me so hard. My reaction to celebrity deaths is generally that everyone dies. Been though a lot of personal tragedy, so I'm somewhat numb to emotion as it pertains to people I don't know. This just feels different.

 

Sorry about the C's loss!

Edited January 27, 2020 by LSHMEAB

[LeGOATski]

25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

As my Airforce buddies say when talking about why they never want to fly in helicopters:

 

"Planes use physics to work with the air so the air wants to keep them afloat. Whereas helicopters just beat the air into submission."

Reminds me of bumblebees....according to physics, they shouldn't be able to fly. They just will themselves to fly.

 

Which brings up the obvious question: if a bumblebee crashes, does anybody care?

[SDS]

11 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I appreciate the reply. No where in my post did I sugar coat or ignore that Kobe, like Felicia, and all of us are all flawed. I think it is vile to bring this up as soon as his death is announced, if not for Kobe, then for his family and friends. What was the motive?

 

The tweet was sent out today, within hours of the reported death, with a link to the article from the past. Why feel the need to drudge up the past as soon as the death is reported?

I can come up with a few reasons... For instance, everyone assumes their world view of a person should be reflected by others. Clearly this isn’t the case. I have never followed basketball. I have zero reverence for Kobe and his career. I quite simply just don’t care for the sport nor anything done inside of it. I bet there are lots of people who may only know him from that incident long ago. Keep in mind that the resolution of that incident was close in time to OJ. There are a lot of people who are resentful towards the rich and powerful buying justice and that feeling may overshadow whatever he did in his career. Listening to others lionize him in death may conflict with their differing view of the player. No one has the full story of who he was at all times. 

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

where in are the limits drawn on where you can cross over from celebrating the best of lives to acknowledging the worst? 

 

were comments about Michael Jackson’s scandals off limits?

 

when OJ passes can only football be celebrated? 
 

aaron Hernandez’s suicide?

how many hours or days before it’s discussed?

 

its a clumsy and messy issue dealing with celebrity deaths in the social media age. Especially ones with serious accusations. There’s no one size fits all. The family of his accuser probably feel a bit crummy with each celebration of him the last decade or so. Perspective is a hell of a thing and if you had been raped by a man in power you may appreciate seeing some acknowledgement today.

 

that said, I won’t pretend all bringing it up truly have good intentions in their hearts either. You just kind of have to roll with it being a spectrum when you invite a billion people to the discussion 

Well I will say Kobe had a lot to do with my giving up on the NBA. Yes he was one of the best but a not sure a more selfish ball hog ever played the game.  The fued between him and Shaq was the nail in my NBA fan coffin. 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Golden Goat said:

 

If you asked Shaq who the greatest Laker was, he'd say Shaq. That's the main reason I always liked Kobe.

I was glad to see Kobe win two championships without Shaq.

[Virgil]

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Well I will say Kobe had a lot to do with my giving up on the NBA. Yes he was one of the best but a not sure a more selfish ball hog ever played the game.  The fued between him and Shaq was the nail in my NBA fan coffin. 

It’s interesting to me how having kids changed my perspective.  I was never a fan of him as a player for the reasons you said. I also thought he held the franchise hostage his last few years by not walking away, knowing they also wouldn’t release him.  
 

The scandal, I’ll never know what happened.  I know that she went to his hotel room willingly at an inappropriate hour and after that, who knows.  
 

But all I can think about today are what those last moments were like for him and his daughter.  To be completely helpless around the person you swear to protect.  His attention, and support, of his children has grown tremendously since his retirement and is well documented.  
 

I also think about the wife and mother receiving that phone call.  
 

For those reasons, I can only think of the man as he was when he died. The rest, in this moment, is irrelevant and it’s a tragedy. 
 

Any focus on the flaws in his life is more about that person needing a soapbox to be heard on.  Think about those things if you’d like, but it doesn’t need to be said right now.  You are making it about yourself if you do. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Virgil

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, TH3 said:

Point is....he was never held “accountable”.....except for the check he wrote....

 

I think a general discussion of the way our justice system works is more appropriate for PPP, but the DA decides whether or not to pursue a criminal case and hold someone accountable.....and if they decide not to pursue the case, that's how it goes.

 

The same mechanism holds true in a situation where the alleged perpetrator is unjustly accused, is justly accused but there is insufficient evidence, and is accused with sufficient evidence but "pays off" or intimidates the witness.....so we as the general public can form our own opinions but that's all they are

 

 

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Well I will say Kobe had a lot to do with my giving up on the NBA. Yes he was one of the best but a not sure a more selfish ball hog ever played the game.  The fued between him and Shaq was the nail in my NBA fan coffin. 

That selfish ball hog averaged almost 5 assists per game over 20years

 

Some years with 6+

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think a general discussion of the way our justice system works is more appropriate for PPP, but the DA decides whether or not to pursue a criminal case and hold someone accountable.....and if they decide not to pursue the case, that's how it goes.

 

The same mechanism holds true in a situation where the alleged perpetrator is unjustly accused, is justly accused but there is insufficient evidence, and is accused with sufficient evidence but "pays off" or intimidates the witness.....so we as the general public can form our own opinions but that's all they are

 

 

 

Today is the day he is held accountable. We all face this day eventually.  

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That selfish ball hog averaged almost 5 assists per game over 20years

 

Some years with 6+

Magic averaged over 11 per game and was a consummate team player.  Kobe doesn’t even break the top 50 all time I assists. Living in SoCal I saw Kobe play a lot. He was a ball hog and it really turned me off the game.  Don’t get me wrong he was one of the best to play the game it just wasn’t my style. 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Magic averaged over 11 per game and was a consummate team player.  Kobe doesn’t even break the top 50 all time I assists. Living in SoCal I saw Kobe play a lot. He was a ball hog and it really turned me off the game.  Don’t get me wrong he was one of the best to play the game it just wasn’t my style. 

Magic Johnson was a point guard who's job it is to distribute..

 

Kobe Bryant is a shooting guard who's job was to score

 

Completely different positions with different jobs

[Chef Jim]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Magic Johnson was a point guard who's job it is to distribute..

 

Kobe Bryant is a shooting guard who's job was to score

 

Completely different positions with different jobs

Point taken. It was also a different era when, in my opinion, the NBA was much more fun to watch. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

The actual term is "autorotation."

 

Its what helo folks do to minimize crashes by attempting to minimize the sink rate during an engine failure.

During normal flight, air is pulled down from above.

If the main rotor system is not being powered, an autorotation is done and the air goes up through the rotor.

 

Not a helicopter fan. Way too many moving parts.

An aircraft whose wings travel faster than its fuselage is inherently unsafe

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Augie said:

Today is the day he is held accountable. We all face this day eventually.  

 

If so, 'twill not be by us

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

False accusations like the one leveled at Bryant should have MUCH stiffer penalties. It's really difficult to disprove a rape allegation, but this one came pretty close.

 

We don't know it was a false accusation.  We don't know it was true.  It was never tried as a criminal matter.  The civil case was settled.

 

In that situation, it's just as off base (in my view) to go around calling the guy a "rapist" who was "never held accountable" as it is to characterize the alleged victim as making a false accusation.  We simply don't know, either way.

 

The man and one of his children are dead, it just seems in poor taste to me to focus on that one incident in his life, whatever one's opinion.

 

 

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

As my Airforce buddies say when talking about why they never want to fly in helicopters:

 

"Planes use physics to work with the air so the air wants to keep them afloat. Whereas helicopters just beat the air into submission."

 

Haha yah fixed wing and heli pilots LoooooOOooooove to talk trash about each other.

 

Truth though!

[Kirby Jackson]

Y’all, I’m really struggling with this. Kobe was never my guy but the tragic nature of it all has me in a weird place. I cried today (keep in mind I cry a lot). I just can’t wrap my head around it and for an empathetic, analytical person that’s really hard. I’m not capable of shrugging my shoulders and saying, “such is life.” Today is horrible

[Teddy KGB]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Y’all, I’m really struggling with this. Kobe was never my guy but the tragic nature of it all has me in a weird place. I cried today (keep in mind I cry a lot). I just can’t wrap my head around it and for an empathetic, analytical person that’s really hard. I’m not capable of shrugging my shoulders and saying, “such is life.” Today is horrible

Same.    Listening to Ramona Shelburne cry and talk about his career on ESPNradio today brought a mild weep to me all day long.  

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Y’all, I’m really struggling with this. Kobe was never my guy but the tragic nature of it all has me in a weird place. I cried today (keep in mind I cry a lot). I just can’t wrap my head around it and for an empathetic, analytical person that’s really hard. I’m not capable of shrugging my shoulders and saying, “such is life.” Today is horrible

There are so many angles to it that just wreck me. Seeing the pictures of his young daughter looking so happy with him at all those basketball games, trying to follow in his footsteps. He was so proud to coach her team. He and his wife got engaged when she was 18 and been together all this time. I know they had their issues through the years , but they seemed to  be in a good place and the family looked so happy. Now left to raise a newborn and the two other girls after losing her husband and daughter. Devastating.  Money can’t fix everything. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[LSHMEAB]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We don't know it was a false accusation.  We don't know it was true.  It was never tried as a criminal matter.  The civil case was settled.

 

In that situation, it's just as off base (in my view) to go around calling the guy a "rapist" who was "never held accountable" as it is to characterize the alleged victim as making a false accusation.  We simply don't know, either way.

We don't know. That much is true. But there is a TREMENDOUS amount of evidence that the allegation was false. I FULLY believe it was false and beyond initial evidence, subsequent behavior and occurrences have only strengthened my PERSONAL belief.

 

I wasn't there, so I'll never know anything with certainty just as not a single person can claim to KNOW that OJ Simpson murdered Goldman/Brown.

[Nelius]

Yeah, this is a tough one. It's been weighing on me heavily all day. While I've been hanging with my daughter especially, which I'm incredibly thankful for on one hand, but it's really hard not to dwell on the whole scenario. And Kobe was an absolute legend. I'm kind of stunned by some of the responses in this thread, not even considering the weird political ones (the entire 24/7 cable news model has been trash since post 9/11 regardless of your political lean btw). He's a top-5 all time lock. Ball hog and only known in California? The entire world is mourning. Everybody knows who Kobe is.

[Process]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Y’all, I’m really struggling with this. Kobe was never my guy but the tragic nature of it all has me in a weird place. I cried today (keep in mind I cry a lot). I just can’t wrap my head around it and for an empathetic, analytical person that’s really hard. I’m not capable of shrugging my shoulders and saying, “such is life.” Today is horrible

It is a pretty surreal and wierd feeling. I woke up this morning and watched a clip of LeBron talking for five minutes last night about what it meant to pass him in points and what Kobe meant to him. A couple hours later start seeing tweets that he's dead. 

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Yeah, this is a tough one. It's been weighing on me heavily all day. While I've been hanging with my daughter especially, which I'm incredibly thankful for on one hand, but it's really hard not to dwell on the whole scenario. And Kobe was an absolute legend. I'm kind of stunned by some of the responses in this thread, not even considering the weird political ones (the entire 24/7 cable news model has been trash since post 9/11 regardless of your political lean btw). He's a top-5 all time lock. Ball hog and only known in California? The entire world is mourning. Everybody knows who Kobe is.

The *entire world* is not mourning. This is exactly what I just posted about - you are projecting your feelings on to everyone else. Believe it or not, the vast vast vast majority of the world doesn’t give a ***** about the NBA. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

The *entire world* is not mourning. This is exactly what I just posted about - you are projecting your feelings on to everyone else. Believe it or not, the vast vast vast majority of the world doesn’t give a ***** about the NBA. 

The entire sports world then, which is very much a global community.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

The entire sports world then, which is very much a global community.

perhaps I’m a cynic, but I find the athlete responses are more out of perceived obligation than out of true emotion. 
 

regardless, 9 people died in that crash.