ganesh Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Max Fischer said: I think a helpful way to evaluate Josh Allen, his progress to date and his potential for the next few years is to determine which QBs you would swap for right now. My list: 1. Mahomes 2. Lamar Jackson 3. Russell Wilson That's probably it. Yes, Brady, Brees and Rodgers are great but they are 42, 40 and 36. With Josh, I believe the Bills are in a pretty good spot at QB. He "might" not get any better but over the past two season there is a lot of evidence he will continue to improve. No idea if he will lead the Bills to a Super Bowl over the next three years but I like our chances with Josh than any other QB but the three above. It iss hard to put everything on the QB. Currently, all those teams have good playmakers surrounding the QB. We are still finding those pieces. Watson benefits from a 3-way monster at the WR position and so does Mahomes. Lamar Jackson makes a 1-2 punch in thee running game that has helped him with the passing game. And they all appear to have some of the best OL in football. The BIlls need to surround Josh Allen with more talent. 2019 was a good start with SingletaryKnox and Brown/Beasley. Need another WR and RB and of course OL help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I'd take Daniel Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I'm going to take this question seriously and rephrase it a bit. When you factor in age/years under team control/salary (or expected salary), which QBs are the most valuable assets in the NFL right now? We also have to take into account how rare it is for an established franchise QB to change teams, so having that guy is more critical than it might seem based only on results vs. cost vs. years of team control: 1. Mahomes 2. Lamar Jackson [big gap] 3. Kyler Murray. Don't get angry. He's got one year of team control over Allen, and watching today, he just plain gets it (along with his athletic talent) 4. Russel Wilson. Huge contract, but if anything, he's outperforming it. And showing no signs of slowing down. 5. Watson. He'd be higher, but he's about to get really expensive. 6. Allen? I can't think of any other guy to clearly put higher on the list, although you could (still) make a good argument for Mayfield or Darnold. Upward trend watch: Drew Lock. Yep. Elway may have finally gotten one right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Where's Blough on this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehfeuh57 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 FITZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I would rather try to figure what RT I would trade Cody Ford for. Last 2 plays of the game vs the PATS his 2 missed assignment caused the immediate pressure on ALLEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayray808 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Mahomes Watson Wentz Wilson *IF WE ARE BUILDING FOR THE NEXT 5-10 YEARS the thing we need to realize is that if we are talking about trading right now today? we could trade for almost 10-15 guys who would put us in a position to win the Super Bowl this year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 No One. 13 hours ago, Lurker said: Absolutely. It's TSW. How about Daniell Hunter for Trent Murphy... Screw that go big !! The Bosa brothers !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par73 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) Easy-- Mahomes. Didn't realize we were doing QB's, plural. Add Watson, Darnold (Still like his potential), Daniel Jones, Wentz, Jackson, Garropolo. Edited December 23, 2019 by par73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 5 hours ago, TwistofFate said: I'd take Daniel Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) I’d exchange Jamis Winston and Lamar Jackson with eachother if I could do any swap. would really help the bills in the playoffs Edited December 23, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I’d exchange Jamis Winston and Lamar Jackson with eachother if I could do any swap. would really help the bills in the playoffs Wouldn’t hurt if you’re asking the opposing QB to pick up the main course for dinner, either. * ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 mahomes brees rodgers jackson wilson stafford wentz ryan garoppolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Iron Maiden said: We really need to leave Brady out of those comparisons....won the SB in his 2nd year on the roster, 1st year starting....and also won 2 more out of the next 3....... The point was not that Allen is going to become the greatest qb of all time but that even the greatest qb of all time was not a finished product in the first few years as a starter. Brady made plays when counted on but the early Patriot teams relied more on defense and running the football. It was not until 2005 that Brady threw for over 4,000 for the first time. He was basically a 3600 yard passer with 26-28 tds before they started relying more and more on Brady’s arm to where he could throw for 5,000 and 50 tds in 2007. The fact is the Patriots did not put everything on Brady in his first few years and only later ran the offense threw him when he had proven he could handle that responsibility. Right now, the coaching staff tries to protect Allen and they rely heavily on their defense. They are very conservative on offense until they need Allen to make a play and then they let him loose. At the end of games and 3rd and long situations they allow Allen to open in up and cut it loose a little more and generally he has shown that he is able to make 3rd and longs at a high rate and he moves the ball effectively in 2 minute situations. I think the coaching staff will continue to shift responsibility on Allen as he shows he can handle it. Nobody knows where his ceiling is at but I’m optimistic he can be a top 5 qb in this league when it is all said and done. Edited December 23, 2019 by racketmaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Baker Mayfield? His fashion sense is something akin to Gump’s box of chocolates. Now that’s edgy. *? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 hours ago, rayray808 said: Mahomes Watson Wentz Wilson *IF WE ARE BUILDING FOR THE NEXT 5-10 YEARS the thing we need to realize is that if we are talking about trading right now today? we could trade for almost 10-15 guys who would put us in a position to win the Super Bowl this year Those would be my top four for long term viability although I'd take Wilson before Wentz. I know for a fact with the right team around them they can lead the franchise to multiple Superbowls. I'm not convinced we can do that with Allen yet so I'd rather take the sure thing. Lamar looks incredible but I don't think you can succeed long term running as often as he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob71 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I'd swap him out for Nate, Tyrod, JP, Trent, or EJ etc etc . Oh wait, nah I think I'll just be happy with the fact that the Bills finally got a good young QB. The last time that happened was 1986 and I was 15 yrs old, so most of my adult Bills fan cheering life. Go Josh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Mahomes is an obvious yes. Jackson is a pretty obvious yes as well. Russel Wilson Deshaun Watson maybe Jimmy Garoppolo and maybe Kyler Murray. Everyone else is either too old or not as good as JA, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 QBR: Mahomes 77.7 That is 2nd in the NFL Joe Flacco 48.6 Josh Allen 48.5 I am SURE I'd take Allen over Flacco, but the QBR isn't digging Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: QBR: Mahomes 77.7 That is 2nd in the NFL Joe Flacco 48.6 Josh Allen 48.5 I am SURE I'd take Allen over Flacco, but the QBR isn't digging Josh. Who digs the QBR?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 8 hours ago, mannc said: I stand by my comment. There is no comment to stand by if you don’t put up a single QB. It’s easy to chirp from the cheap seats if you won’t make your case. 8 hours ago, ganesh said: It iss hard to put everything on the QB. Currently, all those teams have good playmakers surrounding the QB. We are still finding those pieces. Watson benefits from a 3-way monster at the WR position and so does Mahomes. Lamar Jackson makes a 1-2 punch in thee running game that has helped him with the passing game. And they all appear to have some of the best OL in football. The BIlls need to surround Josh Allen with more talent. 2019 was a good start with SingletaryKnox and Brown/Beasley. Need another WR and RB and of course OL help Agree. I wonder how Allen performs on the Ravens and Chiefs; and vice versa. Scheme and roster mean a lot but it’s an exercise to think about how Allen stacks up at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 In hindsight what impresses me about Marrone was he knew right away EJ was not a NFL starter. That was a big disagreement between him and Whaley. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, ALF said: In hindsight what impresses me about Marrone was he knew right away EJ was not a NFL starter. That was a big disagreement between him and Whaley. Right away is unfair but he refuses to tie himself to a guy who had proven nothing and was actively regressing. It’s a little mercenary, but as a coach your job isn’t to love a guy so much your team loses because of it. It’s one of the chief reasons I gave him a pass for exercising his option and walking away. Coaches who tie themselves to a deficient QB lose and get fired quite often in the NFL. I wouldn’t have coached the Bills either if the GM said EJ Manuel is your QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakAttack Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) 1. Josh Rosen ...kidding Edited December 23, 2019 by BobBelcher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 On MONDAY? I fail to see how this would help anything 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, HOUSE said: On MONDAY? I fail to see how this would help anything Cathartic? Some do prefer colonic irrigation over a brief ‘baring of the soul’. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 No one....I wouldn't swap Josh Allen for anyone. He has not even reached close to his potential. EVERYBODY knew he was going to take time to develop - and HE HAS!! His growth is truly remarkable from last year to this one and he's still growing. He could be one of the greatest QBs of our generation as long as he continues to grow. His ceiling has yet to be established and the team is winning. IF and it's a big IF, he grows by the same remarkable increment next year as he did this year - I think you see a tremendous and uncanny resemble to Drew Brees' third year with Favre like arm talent. In other words: accurate and tremendously powerful and smart. I think of Aaron Rodgers but with a better demeanor and attitude who loves Buffalo and is actually a tick better because Brees maximizes his ability through intelligence and touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: No one....I wouldn't swap Josh Allen for anyone. He has not even reached close to his potential. EVERYBODY knew he was going to take time to develop - and HE HAS!! His growth is truly remarkable from last year to this one and he's still growing. He could be one of the greatest QBs of our generation as long as he continues to grow. His ceiling has yet to be established and the team is winning. IF and it's a big IF, he grows by the same remarkable increment next year as he did this year - I think you see a tremendous and uncanny resemble to Drew Brees' third year with Favre like arm talent. In other words: accurate and tremendously powerful and smart. I think of Aaron Rodgers but with a better demeanor and attitude who loves Buffalo and is actually a tick better because Brees maximizes his ability through intelligence and touch. So it’s a big IF and you still wouldn’t trade him for Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes or Russell Wilson? Do you gamble? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: So it’s a big IF and you still wouldn’t trade him for Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes or Russell Wilson? Do you gamble? I do - Russell Wilson is great and in his prime, but the Bills team is growing WITH Josh Allen and they've yet to see their best years as a team. Mahomes is great, but I don't know what his production is without Hill and Watkins and Kelce. Watson is also great, but Houston's dome fits him well. I HOPE the Bills build a dome but with the current situation being what it is and will be for AT LEAST the next three years, I'll take Josh Allen given what we've seen from him and his growth. Edit: KC has Reid as well, just a different style than McD. Edited December 23, 2019 by BigBuff423 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: I do - Russell Wilson is great and in his prime, but the Bills team is growing WITH Josh Allen and they've yet to see their best years as a team. Mahomes is great, but I don't know what his production is without Hill and Watkins and Kelce. Watson is also great, but Houston's dome fits him well. I HOPE the Bills build a dome but with the current situation being what it is and will be for AT LEAST the next three years, I'll take Josh Allen given what we've seen from him and his growth. Edit: KC has Reid as well, just a different style than McD. Bird in the hand, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 34 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Bird in the hand, my friend. I understand that perspective, and I'm not sure there's a "wrong" answer but I just happen to believe (against my original instinct that Josh Allen was not the best pick for the Bills at the time of the Draft) Josh Allen is the right QB for this team, at the right time for this team, and in the right era of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Mahomes and Wilson are the only no-brainers for me. Watson and Jackson are both very close but I'll gamble and take our chances with Allen. I get it that it is hard to pass on both Watson and Jackson when they have each had season(s) far better than any Allen has put together so far. But you can't deny Allen's insane potential. Allen was so raw and such a big developmental project coming in and he's already making huge strides. If you break down his first two seasons in 6-8 game segments he's improving his game in each segment. Watson has played Hopkins and deep threat Will Fuller. We need a couple guys like that on the Bills for Allen. The one nice thing about Allen throwing balls to 5'8" and 5'10" receivers is that if we do get a couple of 6'1"/6'2" guys Allen's accuracy could jump just based on that alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Mahomes and Wilson are the only no-brainers for me. Watson and Jackson are both very close but I'll gamble and take our chances with Allen. I get it that it is hard to pass on both Watson and Jackson when they have each had season(s) far better than any Allen has put together so far. But you can't deny Allen's insane potential. Allen was so raw and such a big developmental project coming in and he's already making huge strides. If you break down his first two seasons in 6-8 game segments he's improving his game in each segment. Watson has played Hopkins and deep threat Will Fuller. We need a couple guys like that on the Bills for Allen. The one nice thing about Allen throwing balls to 5'8" and 5'10" receivers is that if we do get a couple of 6'1"/6'2" guys Allen's accuracy could jump just based on that alone. Thing that would keep me from saying Watson is he is very brittle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Thing that would keep me from saying Watson is he is very brittle. The other thing is he takes too many sacks. It's not all on a bad o-line a lot of it is his style of play. Which works sometimes for him but can also lead to INTs and negative plays. He is a gamer though in very much the same way Allen is. He's going to continue to attack the defense regardless of score, down and distance and if he is having a terrible game up to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltonWaddams Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Only consideration for me is Mahomes. Age, arm strength, smarts and proven ability to diagnose coverages are obvious strengths. That being said, Allen is our guy and he’s got more love for Buffalo than any player we could dream of, so I will stick with him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: Right away is unfair but he refuses to tie himself to a guy who had proven nothing and was actively regressing. It’s a little mercenary, but as a coach your job isn’t to love a guy so much your team loses because of it. It’s one of the chief reasons I gave him a pass for exercising his option and walking away. Coaches who tie themselves to a deficient QB lose and get fired quite often in the NFL. I wouldn’t have coached the Bills either if the GM said EJ Manuel is your QB. what about the tbd ers who have claimed that Marrone ruined EJ and that all EJ needed was another chance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Matt Nichols, Winnipeg Blue Bombers. “He’s tan, rested, and ready.” ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I liked Allen at Wyoming and am happy with his progress this year as well. But still, I'd take the following guys over him (not factoring in contracts for simplicity's sake): No Brainers: Mahomes Lamar Wilson Rodgers Probably: Dak Watson Could go either way, but would probably just rather keep Allen since he has experience in the system: Kyler Jameis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 None, i'm good! This kid is going to be special! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Could go either way, but would probably just rather keep Allen since he has experience in the system: Kyler Jameis 1. ? 2. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts