Mango Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 24 minutes ago, Gugny said: I didn't see this posted anywhere, so if it has been, I'm sorry for the dupe. Listening to Golic/Wingo this morning, Golic Jr., found a tweet detailing how the Pats cheated in 2007 (the original Spygate). Film crews went to games of future opponents as employees of Kraft Productions, prepared with canned excuses in case they were asked any questions. That's exactly what happened on Sunday. I've often opined that I didn't give a crap about the Pats' cheating ways. I feel differently now. When is enough going to be enough for the NFL to do something? I'm not talking about vacating championships or wins. But there should be some severe punishments levied if they determine the Pats were, in fact, cheating again. Lots of money and multiple first/second round draft picks. I would honestly consider vacating the rest of the season. It’s never been about the results, it’s always been the process. It’s institutional. Trying to pick up tells and signals is different that changing/creating/cutting out head set frequency. Psi of the football is meh to me. Submitting them to the ref high or low doesn’t matter. Coordinating their theft to adjust is terrible. Now, creating a TV show so you can have an excuse for videotaping calls...AGAIN!!!! This is strike 3. Spygate. Deflategate. Spygate 2.0. How can you let them compete for a championship this year after this. Forfeit the rest of the season. No playoffs. Vacate wins this year, give them away. If the NBA can remove an owner for racist remarks, the NFL can remove an owner for destroying the integrity of the game. Let them keep their picks, but dismantle their ownership, FO, and coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 It's things like this, that make me question why I even bother to watch the NFL. The NFL is full of corruption at the expense of unsuspecting/ ignorant fans. The only reason I watch is because I have sentimental emotion towards the Bills. It's sad. Hopefully I can get out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Cheaters gonna cheat. The NFL will sweep this under the rug, again, but if this is true (why would it not be?), Bill Belicheck should be banned for life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: because a patriots employee is being filmed. Unless the employee went “rogue,” one would think that the activity was sanctioned by the organization. bottom line here: the patriots lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago. And the optics of what happened here are horrible for the Patriots. The league office cannot be happy that it has to deal with another incident like this involving the patriots in the home stretch of its 100th season. What Pats employee was being filmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloaf Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, major said: I think goodell and the league knows that if this comes out, it’s steroids/baseball type of scandal that will take years to repair. Instead, they cover it up (much like they did with concussions). It will come out though- see Astros This is how I see it as well. I just don't think it's likely the NFL will ever let us know the details of the Patriots cheating ways. They may claim this was a one time error, worthy of punishment, and try to handle it behind the scenes. If it came to light that the Patriots had been cheating consistently for 15-20 years, while winning 6 superbowls and becoming essentially the face of the NFL, it would do too much damage. It would be the biggest scandal in sports history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: because a patriots employee is being filmed. Unless the employee went “rogue,” one would think that the activity was sanctioned by the organization. bottom line here: the patriots lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago. And the optics of what happened here are horrible for the Patriots. The league office cannot be happy that it has to deal with another incident like this involving the patriots in the home stretch of its 100th season. At the end of the day it's just more of a lifting the curtain on that franchise. in 2019 alone they have had several stories come out that show just how crooked and underhanded they are: 1) The Kraft "incident" 2) Brady's plan to get Antonio Brown from Pittsburgh to New England. The two of them 100% set it up, Brown practically admitted as much during his handful of days in NE. He hired people to help him force his way out of Oakland and into free agency for the express purpose of playing with Brady in NE. The fact that the plan blew up in their faces is hilarious and karma at its best! New England fans on their forums complain about how Belichick could go into the season so thin at WR. Hmmm it's almost like he knew that they would be signing Brown at some point, isn't it? Breaks your heart that it didn't work out the way they schemed it up. 3) Now this. Yet ANOTHER surveillance scandal. Let's call it what it is: surveillance of other teams. It's like a creepy guy sitting in a van across the street from your house watching it 24/7. Most of the day he's recording a static shot of the front of your house and literally nothing is happening. Nobody is even home. Does that excuse what he is doing? Plus, if you ask he works for the utility company! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yobogoya! Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 That organization from top to bottom has believed they're above the rules for over twenty years now. It's time to drop the damn hammer. Plausible deniability isn't an excuse after a documented history of this stuff. Their fans and organization tried to downplay Deflategate by saying there was no competitive advantage gained, and the balls were within a certain PSI. For me, it was NEVER about the competitive advantage Brady gained from softer balls. It was ALL about how he knew what the rules were, and he bribed an equipment lackey with sneakers to go around the rules, because he believed he was fully entitled to it. The Spygate punishment was a joke in retrospect. I don't even care if this was just an innocent mistake. When your organizational policy was to use this EXACT SITUATION as an excuse during your previous cheating attempts, I think you'd better be fully prepared for no one to give you the benefit of the doubt. Drop the hammer. It's long overdue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Buffaloaf said: This is how I see it as well. I just don't think it's likely the NFL will ever let us know the details of the Patriots cheating ways. They may claim this was a one time error, worthy of punishment, and try to handle it behind the scenes. If it came to light that the Patriots had been cheating consistently for 15-20 years, while winning 6 superbowls and becoming essentially the face of the NFL, it would do too much damage. It would be the biggest scandal in sports history. If you are Terry Pegula though, are you willing to just sit there and take it (again)? The cheating likely cost the Bills the Division and home playoff game(s), revenue, a better shot at the Superbowl, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Buffaloaf said: This is how I see it as well. I just don't think it's likely the NFL will ever let us know the details of the Patriots cheating ways. They may claim this was a one time error, worthy of punishment, and try to handle it behind the scenes. If it came to light that the Patriots had been cheating consistently for 15-20 years, while winning 6 superbowls and becoming essentially the face of the NFL, it would do too much damage. It would be the biggest scandal in sports history. I would have to have my smile surgically removed. I know this is going to sound bad, but I think I hate the Patriots as much as I love the Bills at this point. It is what it is. That team has ruined football for 20 years for me. Every December/January everything is through the lens of "who has the best chance to stop NE from getting back to the Super Bowl?" I just want to enjoy the games again. Edited December 10, 2019 by TheFunPolice 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 We're on to Cincinnati. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloaf Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: If you are Terry Pegula though, are you willing to just sit there and take it (again)? The cheating likely cost the Bills the Division and home playoff game(s), revenue, a better shot at the Superbowl, etc. I like to think you're right, but the owners have to think about value of their teams and the league overall. If the Patriots are found to have been cheating for the duration of their dynasty, the public may lose faith in the sport overall and stop watching in significant numbers. This would cost every owner a lot of money. Is it better for the survival of the league to just sweep it under the rug? That's what happened with the original spygate. Personally, I want to see them punished to the fullest extent. As a fan of the Bills I'm probably a bit biased, but I would lose more faith if they just ignore this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCockSportif Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Quote "But since that's happened, I'd say we've tried to keep a good distance behind the line and not maybe take it as far as we would might have in the past. But it's never really fundamentally changed there." From the mouth of BB via ESPN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Reposting this from a locked thread so it gets some looks Author is @BillsFanInCt74 Posted 7 hours ago (edited) This article explains how the patriots have been cheating all along . Ex players ratting them out . People need to see this i wish someone could tweet it out so alot of nfl fans could read also..https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart Its a long read but worth it Edited 7 hours ago by BillsFanInCt74 What a bunch of slime. Think of all the wins by other teams throughout the league's history that didn't involve cheating and how this marginalizes their efforts. I think the best thing for the NFL's image would be to ban Belichick, expunge the Patriots record of the past 20 years, and force them to sell/move the team. You'd be throwing 1 fan base under the bus (the fans didn't cheat) but the other 31 fan bases (and the new 32nd) would be rejuvenated at a time when the future of professional football isn't exactly certain. Edited December 10, 2019 by Capco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boco357 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 If you have sub to Athletic this says camera was filming 8 minutes of sideline footage of the Bengals.Direct view of sideline where players run on and off and field and signals for plays. https://theathletic.com/1447919/2019/12/10/dehner-jr-sources-say-patriots-video-focused-for-8-minutes-on-bengals-sideline/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Its pretty insane. If you read the spygate report this is exactly what they did. Down to the "third party production company" still owned by Kraft. The people filming are told what to say if they get caught I didnt know.. Its for a documentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Sad. But hardly shocking, and solidifies the fact that NE remains undeterred no matter how many times they have been caught in the act/sanction in terms of their cheating/pushing the envelope to the 'nth degree. Which in turn further adds yet another asterisk to their otherwise historical run of dominance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say When... Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 They shouldn't stop at this incident, i'm not sure how authorization is logged with the various stadiums/organizations but i'd be going through past credentials logs of each stadium, matching it to the Pats schedule/next or upcoming opponent and validating legal scouting vs camera crews attending games on behalf of a docmuentary. it all depends on how far you're willing to go to expose the entire operation, i don't think for one moment this was isolated and "just happened to be at the Browns/Bengals" game when you had Bills/Ravens and other games just as close, heck you have you're very own game vs the Chiefs. if the NFL really wants to make this damning, the opportunity is there, will they do the extra work? what about each individual team? think they aren't looking through records to see if there were Pats*** staff at their games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Anyone remember McDermott chasing Pats staffers from the Buffalo sidelines the firs time the Bills and Pats met this year? Do we know exactly what that was about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Listen to Shannon here he makes some good points. Pointing out how dirty NE and Belichick really are. He is calling for the NFL to ban Belichick and I agree! https://youtu.be/qCoYxHQCTzk 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffaloaf said: I like to think you're right, but the owners have to think about value of their teams and the league overall. If the Patriots are found to have been cheating for the duration of their dynasty, the public may lose faith in the sport overall and stop watching in significant numbers. This would cost every owner a lot of money. Is it better for the survival of the league to just sweep it under the rug? That's what happened with the original spygate. Personally, I want to see them punished to the fullest extent. As a fan of the Bills I'm probably a bit biased, but I would lose more faith if they just ignore this. I could definitely see that being the case with the previous round of cheating. This time though, there has to be some real bad feelings and animosity internally amongst the owners... even if it doesn't leave closed doors. This is pervasive conduct and well after they were caught, everyone covered up for them, and they were told to knock it off. I do not believe there will or should be anything in the way of vacating wins and championships and such... but I could see some pretty severe sanctions coming there way, much more than a slap on the wrist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, wppete said: Listen to Shannon here he makes some good points. Pointing out how dirty NE and Belichick really are. He is calling for the NFL to ban Belichick and I agree! https://youtu.be/qCoYxHQCTzk Exactly. Belichick has to be the most smug, arrogant, self-aggrandizing a-hole to walk the planet if he thinks anyone will buy the "I didn't know" defense 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) This isn’t an over-the-shoulder of the advanced scout who is doing his job stuff. This is shooting the sideline. For an extended period of time. The egregious nature of the video is why it set off the firestorm it did during the game with the Bengals executives in the press box. Edited December 10, 2019 by YoloinOhio 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 48 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Sad. But hardly shocking, and solidifies the fact that NE remains undeterred no matter how many times they have been caught in the act/sanction in terms of their cheating/pushing the envelope to the 'nth degree. Which in turn further adds yet another asterisk to their otherwise historical run of dominance. HUDS, it was the great Mahatma Gandhi who once said of the Patriots, "Those guys suck...I'm mean they really do, right?!" It's not in the movie, you don't have to check. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Dibs said: Though I am not an accomplished multi-scam cheater like those in NE, I think that if I was organizing this I would set up a legit crew to do the doco segments....AND have a crew go to cover my scout guy every week as well. If we are ever caught, regardless of the week, we claim we are filming the doco..."Look here are some previous episodes to show it's all legit." The payoff isn't the Bengals game. The payoff is EVERY game. They just happened to get caught this week. Like I said, I'm no mastermind scammer, but if this can work in week 14 against the Bengals(getting a crew in the box), I would certainly be doing it at every "scout" game....if I was a big old cheater that is. yet there’s no early indication of this being at other games... yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Anyone want to vent to the NFL here is their twitter account. ? https://twitter.com/NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 People calling for Belicheck to be banned are not going to get their wish. If the NFL took such a severe step and banned a coach that had 6 super bowls over two decades, would be a huge black eye to the league and undermine the confidence the public has in the league, the commissioner and the idea of games being fixed. It would wipe out nearly a 20 year period of dominance by one team, an entire generation of football fans will have felt cheated for 20 years. The NFL would never fully recover Imagine the implications that Vegas has? Or other owners? If this turns out to be spygate 2.0 (and im not sure it will) expect a suspension at most for Belicheck. Heavy fines, loss of draft picks ect. Vacating wins? This isnt college football. Bans? Extremely unlikey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 The two quotes below from this quote are opposites. Anything else would include what is on TV, yes? "I have never seen any of their tapes or anything else" "We have never seen anything that they've shot, other than what has come down on tv" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, wppete said: Listen to Shannon here he makes some good points. Pointing out how dirty NE and Belichick really are. He is calling for the NFL to ban Belichick and I agree! https://youtu.be/qCoYxHQCTzk I agree with Shannon on this. This has been the third time they have been caught cheating (who knows what else they haven't been caught for), Belichek should be banned from coaching after this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Rc2catch said: The league has to stay ahead of it. They can’t cover it up because the bengals have the original video. The NFL has a copy the bengals made them. If the league tries to hide things or releases a report or punishment stating different Cincinnati can release the video. That’s what I understood from reading on here and the pats board anyways when all the tweets started coming out. Nfl covered it up the first time and destroyed all the footage. I don’t trust them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: People calling for Belicheck to be banned are not going to get their wish. If the NFL took such a severe step and banned a coach that had 6 super bowls over two decades, would be a huge black eye to the league and undermine the confidence the public has in the league, the commissioner and the idea of games being fixed. It would wipe out nearly a 20 year period of dominance by one team, an entire generation of football fans will have felt cheated for 20 years. The NFL would never fully recover Imagine the implications that Vegas has? Or other owners? If this turns out to be spygate 2.0 (and im not sure it will) expect a suspension at most for Belicheck. Heavy fines, loss of draft picks ect. Vacating wins? This isnt college football. Bans? Extremely unlikey. Not to mention the poster boy of their NFL 100 team.... awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, boco357 said: If you have sub to Athletic this says camera was filming 8 minutes of sideline footage of the Bengals.Direct view of sideline where players run on and off and field and signals for plays. https://theathletic.com/1447919/2019/12/10/dehner-jr-sources-say-patriots-video-focused-for-8-minutes-on-bengals-sideline/ This is quite damning... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/even-with-patriots-admission-to-inappropriately-filming-bengals-game-nfl-needs-to-release-tape-045600579.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, wppete said: Max nailed it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I've said it before, the Patriots dynasty is the worst thing ever to happen to NFL. Makes Hornung and Karras betting a few bucks on games look like childs play. Someday this 20 year period of the Pats dynasty will be looked back on worse than the Steroid ERA in baseball. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boco357 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, Gary Busey said: The two quotes below from this quote are opposites. Anything else would include what is on TV, yes? "I have never seen any of their tapes or anything else" "We have never seen anything that they've shot, other than what has come down on tv" I've watched a bunch of true crime stuff, isn't it when you ramble on you are lying? He can tell you how many napkins Nick Folk used at breakfast but no clue about this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: The camera operator was also wearing BRUINS gear, not PATRIOTS gear. Not sure if that means anything - but that fact is getting lost in almost every report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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