Good article on Josh (The Ringer)

[Da webster guy]

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2019/11/21/20975461/josh-allen-buffalo-bills-quarterback-perception?__twitter_impression=true

[Seasons1992]

The Ringer is quickly becoming one of the most important sites for sports and pop culture in the world. Love it and love Bill Simmons.

[BritBill]

I would have loved to have seen a photo of him in those shorts.

[stony]

4 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

The Ringer is quickly becoming one of the most important sites for sports and pop culture in the world. Love it and love Bill Simmons.

Yup, has for a while.  They've built up a really nice stable of talent post-Grantland across the sports and entertainment landscape.  Their podcasts are great, too. 

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

The Ringer is quickly becoming one of the most important sites for sports and pop culture in the world. Love it and love Bill Simmons.

He can be a giant homer but I’ve always been a big fan of Simmons and Mays is a good writer. 

[Brother Hesekiah]

Mays has been one of Josh's detractors over the past year and a half, so it's nice to see an even-handed article from him.   

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, Brother Hesekiah said:

Mays has been one of Josh's detractors over the past year and a half, so it's nice to see an even-handed article from him.   

But isn’t that the whole point of the article? I think the people skeptical over Allen aren’t making it personal.  A 56% passer from Wyoming 99/100 times isn’t going to be a good nfl qb.  If Allen makes it, it is an extremely rare exception and the Bills are geniuses.  If not, they will look dumb for ignoring the obvious flaws.  
 

Let’s hope he is the exception to the rule.

[Scott7975]

Thanks for the link. That was a fantastic article. 

[Coach Tuesday]

Again: Josh's high degree of self-awareness, introspection and intellect give him as much of a chance to be successful as his physical traits, if not more so.  It's what gives me hope.  Lots of strong-armed athletes have flamed out of the NFL quickly.  Josh puts in the work to critique, think about and improve his game.  Golf is a good analogy for him.  I like him more and more every day.

[Brother Hesekiah]

32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But isn’t that the whole point of the article? I think the people skeptical over Allen aren’t making it personal.  A 56% passer from Wyoming 99/100 times isn’t going to be a good nfl qb.  If Allen makes it, it is an extremely rare exception and the Bills are geniuses.  If not, they will look dumb for ignoring the obvious flaws.  
 

Let’s hope he is the exception to the rule.

Agreed that most people aren't making it personal, as in having something specifically against him as a person.  But a good number of people are so wedded to their pre-draft takes that they're unwilling or slow to see the real improvement that's taken place. 

 

Also, how many times out of 100 does a small-school, 56% passer with Josh's physical skills and "intangibles" make it?  I bet you the number is higher than 1.  There's more to scouting than the stat sheet.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Brother Hesekiah
typo

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2019/11/21/20975461/josh-allen-buffalo-bills-quarterback-perception?__twitter_impression=true

 

That is a good article.

 

Two key take-aways:

-last year, 48.8 percent completion rate on passes from 10 to 20 yards.

-this year, 64.7 percent completion rate on passes from 10 to 20 yards

Close to 16% improvement.  And those are the money throws

 

Why?

"His primary goal this offseason was to improve the way he shaped throws to the sideline from 12 to 22 yards past the line of scrimmage, so he and Brown began working together tirelessly after practice. Allen would routinely direct Brown to stand at a spot in that range on the left sideline, and he’d pepper his receiver with 50 identically lofted passes. “You just kind of feel that rhythm, how your body adjusts to it, the way it’s coming off your hand, the angle of your shoulder, the bend in your knees,” Allen says. “After about 25 throws, once you kind of find that rhythm, it all kind of locks in.” "

 

I think that's what McDermott means when he talks about "rep count".  Allen comes across as a very savvy and self-aware guy.  He looked at what his biggest gaps were, and identified the most important point to improve: those 10-20 yd passes that move the chains.  He's been repping them hard, and that's why they're improving.  In contrast, the longer passes he was better at last year have taken a back-seat in the "rep count" and that's why they're rusty, and why Allen isn't worried about it. 

 

I love this anecdote:
"With no help over the top, Brown dusted the slot cornerback and sprinted wide open down the middle of the field for a would-be touchdown. But when Allen finally uncorked the throw, it landed a solid 5 yards over the speedster’s head. Later in the game, with Buffalo holding a commanding lead, Allen approached his veteran wide receiver and apologized for the gaffe. “I said I owed him one, and he said, ‘Look at the score,’” Allen recalls. “‘I don’t care about any of that. We’re winning.’ To hear that from a guy who’s played in the league for so long—and a receiver no less. Those guys want to catches passes; they want to score touchdowns. He didn’t care about any of that. [Because] we’re winning football games.”

[PaattMaann]

good article, also clearly explains why hes missing disastrously on long throws, hes scared of throwing a pick  

[blacklabel]

It's difficult to NOT believe in the kid after you read stuff like this. He's a humble, hardworking dude who is very aware of both his strength's and weaknesses. He's determined to get better and the fact that he's shown genuine improvement is huge. Sometimes guys put in the work and take to coaching but for whatever reason, it just never comes together. It might take some time, but at this point, he's definitely shown he can make adjustments to his game, and if he can keep doing that consistently, then yeah, there might come a time when he's the best QB in the league, like he said. 

[iinii]

The article points to the biggest improvement I see in Allen’s game. Touch. He is grasping the idea that sometimes a little air on the ball is better than trying to rope every throw into a tight window. 
Quoting Parcells doesn’t hurt either.

[Seasons1992]

6 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

good article, also clearly explains why hes missing disastrously on long throws, hes scared of throwing a pick  

 

I'm ok with that. I'd ask the resident scouts around here like @Virgil or @Blokestradamus to tell us about who the fastest WR is coming out in the draft this year, so we can shore up the deep pass.

[PaattMaann]

9 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

I'm ok with that. I'd ask the resident scouts around here like @Virgil or @Blokestradamus to tell us about who the fastest WR is coming out in the draft this year, so we can shore up the deep pass.

 

we have fast WRs, their speed has literally nothing to do with Josh throwing it a mile by them

[One Buffalo]

Great read!  And it reinforces the point that Josh is still a work in progress.  He is still growing and progressing into his potential.  The growing pains are painful of course but the end result will be well worth it.  Last year he struggled with the short and intermediate passes, this year he is among the best in the league.  He leads the league in 11-20 yard completion percentage according to this- https://nocheckdowns.com/app/location-accuracy/  This is a clear sign of growth, and the coaches work with him on this important aspect of his game.  The other pieces will come together, including the long ball.  

[whatdrought]

I think it's hard to read this article, to watch every Josh Allen snap in these first two years, to think through the narrative about him pre-draft (specifically how raw he was) and to not come away thinking he's the guy. Just great. It's also incredible that this is essentially his second year getting proper coaching... Like it said, no Camps, no prestigious HS, no big name school... Just Allen growing as an individual, and now he's being shown how to be a professional QB. Also- this is the line of the article:

 

"Allen’s biggest gains in 2019 have come where he faltered most as a rookie."

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

I'm ok with that. I'd ask the resident scouts around here like @Virgil or @Blokestradamus to tell us about who the fastest WR is coming out in the draft this year, so we can shore up the deep pass.

 

Henry Ruggs III

[msw2112]

 

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Again: Josh's high degree of self-awareness, introspection and intellect give him as much of a chance to be successful as his physical traits, if not more so.  It's what gives me hope.  Lots of strong-armed athletes have flamed out of the NFL quickly.  Josh puts in the work to critique, think about and improve his game.  Golf is a good analogy for him.  I like him more and more every day.

 

Allen's physical talents are among the best the league has seen - size, speed, strength (general) and arm strength.  But it's his mental makeup and maturity that set him apart.  His willingness to be introspective, accept his shortcomings and work (and work and work) at improving them are extremely impressive.  To put in simpler terms, he's a guy that "gets it."  Over the course of the last year, he's greatly improved his mid-range passing game and in just a few short weeks, he's made a remarkable improvement in cutting down on interceptions.  Next, he needs to work on ball security.  Although the Bills have recovered many of them, he's had too many fumbles while running the ball.  (The one late in the first half against Philly turned the entire game around and the Bills never recovered.)  Given Allen's willingness to address his shortcomings, I fully expect he will get that corrected too, and of course, he can then focus on the deep ball.  Allen is progressing nicely and the future looks bright for him.  

[Mr. WEO]

Before I read it,  there anything negative in that article?  I don't want to be triggered.  I would have to start a thread against this article and its author in particular  and that site in general---and I'm already pretty busy today.

[eball]

Good read, thanks for sharing.

[Codyny13]

Nice article. Josh is very easy to like.

[warrior9]

When people say Josh Allen's accuracy isn't progressing:

 

A year after consistently struggling to place intermediate throws, Allen has been one of the league’s most accurate passers in that area of the field. He’s completed 64.7 percent of his throws between 10 and 20 yards this season—a jump of nearly 16 percentage points from his first season. Allen’s biggest gains in 2019 have come where he faltered most as a rookie.

[Brother Hesekiah]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Before I read it,  there anything negative in that article?  I don't want to be triggered.  I would have to start a thread against this article and its author in particular  and that site in general---and I'm already pretty busy today.

It's pretty balanced, bordering on positive.  It said he came into the league with several question marks, made significant improvements this year but that he still had a ways to go.  Also talked about his character/work ethic, particularly as it relates to improving weaknesses, which suggests that the writer now thinks he can continue to improve.  

[Shaw66]

That's about as good an article as I've seen about Allen.  It describes nicely who he is and how he's developing.   

 

What goes unnoticed in most of these discussions is the job that Beane, McDermott and their staffs did.  Allen may have been the best QB prospect in the draft, and it seems like only McBeane figured it out.   Certainly the Browns and Jets didn't.  And no one else, apparently, was trading up for him.

 

Everyone knew Allen was big and had a big arm.   But none of the draft pundits were writing about, and most teams apparently didn't figure out, that Allen was smart, dedicated to the craft, hard-working, a team-oriented guy and a fierce competitor.   Those are the things that McBeane are looking for in all their players, especially their QB.  Those are things about a player that are knowable, and the Bills did the work to figure out that Allen had all those attributes.   Combine those attributes with that size, speed and arm, and you have a top prospect.   

 

It was obvious to me early in the 2018 season.   It was evident to McBeane in March before the draft.  

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 hour ago, Da webster guy said:

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2019/11/21/20975461/josh-allen-buffalo-bills-quarterback-perception?__twitter_impression=true

Very well written, even handed article.  Thanks for sharing OP.

[Stank_Nasty]

24 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

we have fast WRs, their speed has literally nothing to do with Josh throwing it a mile by them

I agree.... we should dwell on that one negative point in the article. take home message from the article? allen is awful at deep balls because he's afraid of picks. really hammer it home.... I dig it.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[TigerJ]

Great article.  It is powerful motivation to be optimistic about the Bills over the next decade plus.

[snamsnoops]

Duke Williams is TE? He probably could\should be.......Otherwise a well written article!

Edited November 21, 2019 by snamsnoops

[Hapless Bills Fan]

58 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

good article, also clearly explains why hes missing disastrously on long throws, hes scared of throwing a pick  

 

I think that’s part of it, but from the article what I get from it is he just hasn’t been repping them nearly as hard.  He could tune them in with John Brown and Robert Foster if they stayed after practice and did 20 reps apiece on them in different wind and weather conditions, but Allen and his coaches are savvy enough to figure out that the bigger payout is 25-50 reps on the 10-20 yd throws.

 

7 minutes ago, snamsnoops said:

Duke Williams is TE? He probably could\should be.......Otherwise a well written article!

 

Yeah, I noticed that.  Easy to make that mistake.  Duke Williams and Dawson Knox are fundamentally twins ?

[Mr. WEO]

33 minutes ago, Brother Hesekiah said:

It's pretty balanced, bordering on positive.  It said he came into the league with several question marks, made significant improvements this year but that he still had a ways to go.  Also talked about his character/work ethic, particularly as it relates to improving weaknesses, which suggests that the writer now thinks he can continue to improve.  

 

phew!!

[BBills88]

I hope this kid wins 4 or more Superbowls with the BILLS! 

[boater]

Nice read.

 

It reminded me that Josh is still a work in progress. Some of us fans need to remember that -- he isn't a savvy polished veteran, and expecting him to be one at this point is expecting too much.

[TroutDog]

Fantastic article, thank you for sharing. 
 

What I read is that Josh has the proper determination and physical attributes to be the long term answer. In addition, the organization has a clear understanding of what they want and how to find it...and it may differ from the other teams. 
 

I love the trajectory. 

[starrymessenger]

The article is well written. In tone it is undeniably positive but to me it's not a product of homerism. Rather it's an accurate and realistic assessment IMO. Allen was and remains a top shelf blue chip prospect. He is not less so today than current MVP candidate Lamar Jackson once adjustments are made for differences in circumstances. As many have said there will continue to be ups and downs. I will be happy to take whatever success the Bills enjoy in the meantime but my expectation in terms of the timeline is pretty straightforward: I expect the Bills to add receiving talent, probably 2 players, another RB and one or more OLine next year. If the universe unfolds as it should,  while of course nothing is guaranteed, I expect the Bills to be legit as contenders in 2021 and obviously for Allen to be a big part of that. Overall it looks to me like they are building it right. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by starrymessenger

[Just in Atlanta]

Great article. I do believe history will show we got the best QB in a stacked QB draft. Either way, he's my favorite and he passes multiple eye tests, stats aside. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

The article is well written. In tone it is undeniably positive but to me it's not a product of homerism. Rather it's an accurate and realistic assessment IMO. Allen was and remains a top shelf blue chip prospect. He is not less so today than current MVP candidate Lamar Jackson once adjustments are made for differences in circumstances. As many have said there will continue to be ups and downs. I will be happy to take whatever success the Bills enjoy in the meantime but my expectation in terms of the timeline is pretty straightforward: I expect the Bills to add receiving talent, probably 2 players, another RB and one or more OLine next year. If the universe unfolds as it should,  while of course nothing is guaranteed, I expect the Bills to be legit as contenders in 2021 and obviously for Allen to be a big part of that. Overall it looks to me like they are building it right. 

 

I liked the part about him wearing a gray T-shirt and a pair of blue shorts that (a) look straight out of an ’80s NBA game, and (b) are decidedly too small for a guy who weighs 237 pounds.  It gives a bit of color to the piece.  Josh was just coming off lifting, and OK, he'll take the time to talk to the reporter but he's not gonna swag up.  What, these?  They're my favorite lifting clothes from JUCO, anyway everything else is in the wash.

I will say this.  When pundits dissed off Rosen as "not sure he's a Leader of Men" I was all, "yeah, yeah, leadership shmedership, overrated, just give me a guy who can make the reads and throw completions".

 

Watching the dynamics of Allen with the Bills and of Fitzy with the Dolphins, I have to say that I think now I was wrong, and that being able to be a leader and be respected but yet be able to go to your WR and say "that was a great route, I ***** up, I need to do better" counts for way more than I thought.

 

[starrymessenger]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I liked the part about him wearing a gray T-shirt and a pair of blue shorts that (a) look straight out of an ’80s NBA game, and (b) are decidedly too small for a guy who weighs 237 pounds.  It gives a bit of color to the piece.  Josh was just coming off lifting, and OK, he'll take the time to talk to the reporter but he's not gonna swag up.  What, these?  They're my favorite lifting clothes from JUCO, anyway everything else is in the wash.

I will say this.  When pundits dissed off Rosen as "not sure he's a Leader of Men" I was all, "yeah, yeah, leadership shmedership, overrated, just give me a guy who can make the reads and throw completions".

 

Watching the dynamics of Allen with the Bills and of Fitzy with the Dolphins, I have to say that I think now I was wrong, and that being able to be a leader and be respected but yet be able to go to your WR and say "that was a great route, I ***** up, I need to do better" counts for way more than I thought.

 

 

Yeah the intangibles are great and extremely important. Almost, but not quite as important as, with the benefit of good coaching and experience, and with the addition of talent and continued growth of the O together with other young players like Singletary and Knox,  having the game slow down for him. I think there is a good chance that all of that comes to pass in due course.

I continue to think that Rosen is very talented as a passer. If his alleged lack of leadership skills is accurate however that is a big disadvantage for him to overcome. Playing QB at this level is not like playing tennis. I do think it's still much to early to write him off as a bust. As with all things only time will tell. Josh's year was a good class IMO.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Yeah the intangibles are great and extremely important. Almost, but not quite as important as, with the benefit of good coaching and experience, and with the addition of talent and continued growth of the O together with other young players like Singletary and Knox,  having the game slow down for him. I think there is a good chance that all of that comes to pass in due course.

I continue to think that Rosen is very talented as a passer. If his alleged lack of leadership skills is accurate however that is a big disadvantage for him to overcome. Playing QB at this level is not like playing tennis. I do think it's still much to early to write him off as a bust. As with all things only time will tell. Josh's year was a good class IMO.

 

Rosen might have been a  good QB if the kid was put in a good situation with good coaching.  Unfortunately for him, it may be too late because a good situation might not view him worth the time anymore.  I think this possibly happens to many QBs that bust out of the league but would have been fine with good situation, coaching, development, and some patience.

 

I could be wrong about all that but it is how I feel.

[DrDawkinstein]

Great article, but I cant get past the first paragraph and all this sexy talk...

 

Quote

He’s wearing a gray T-shirt and a pair of blue shorts that (a) look straight out of an ’80s NBA game, and (b) are decidedly too small for a guy who weighs 237 pounds.

 

????