Jerry Hughes - $14 Mil - Why

[atlbillsfan1975]

18 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

freaking A.   You don't HAVE to post to every thread on the board.  GO away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

TOTAL CASH:

 

2019

$6,800,000

$6,300,000

$1,000,000

$150,000

-

-

-

$14,250,000

 

 

 

John is a loyal diehard Bills fan that maybe wears a deep shade of rose glasses when it comes to the Bills. You look to be newish here, posts like this will make you unwelcome quickly. Don’t attack others, state your case , voice your opinion. Be nice, it takes the same energy.

[billsfan89]

Hughes this season is on the last year of his contract extension he signed in 2015 when he was coming off of back to back 10 sack seasons. Contracts in the NFL tend to be back loaded money wise. Despite his 14.5 million salary his cap hit for 2019 is 12.9 million still a bit overpaid for his production. But his cap hits the past 4 seasons were 6.17 million in 2015, 7.5 million in 2016, 10.4 million in 2017 and 10.4 million in 2018. So the Bills are in 2019 essentially paying for Hughes cheaper contract numbers early in his deal. 

 

His cap hits in 2020 and 2021 are a modest 9.5 million each year with the ability to get out of his deal in 2021 at a low dead cap hit. The context of Hughes being paid his current number are the result of circumstances. Has he produced the sack totals the team wanted? No but his pressure numbers are good, he is stout against the run, and if you watch the games you know he is a factor. He should be a heavily productive rotation player the next 2 seasons at a fair cap number. He also has good value in the locker room. 

 

I do suspect this team does bring in a big time edge rusher via free agency to get Hughes down to being the 2nd best pass rusher (a role he is better suited for) and the team has both the cap room to do so in a free agent class that boasts a lot of options as far as edge rushers go. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by billsfan89

[SoCal Deek]

It’s the nature of the business that is professional sports. Every team has players both over and under paid up and down the roster. It’s impossible to line things up any more accurately when you’re signing contracts BEFORE performance. I guess they could all play for minimum wage throughout the season and then sit down with management after the final game to ‘settle accounts’ ....but it’s hard to imagine the Players Union agreeing to $10 per hour! ?

[cage]

I had to say this on the Ed Oliver thread, but will have to repeat on this one.  Please subscribe to The Athletic before complaining about a player and then go check out the All-22 video analysis after each game.  JoeB does a game analysis and then has cumulative grades across all the games.  Jerry Hughes is the #3 ranked player on the team (offense and defense) in this analysis.  Higher than Milano, Poyer, Hyde or Edmunds.  He's 0.01 points behind Tre'Davious White in the grading system.  In this analysis JoeB looks at every play and grades every player on each play.  I think that analysis deserves more weight than our fly-by thoughts from watching on TV or in-person.

[blacklabel]

He may not rack up a ton of sacks but he routinely provides pressure. He might be having a bit of a down year but clearly they think he can still be effective.

 

Also, and I've said this before, some players are here for more than just their on field performance. Hughes is one of those guys. He may not have a C on his jersey but he's a locker room OG, he's a guy that other guys can go to for advice and he's a guy that can communicate with coaches to give them a read on the locker room. This staff also loves his energy, his work ethic, and his approach. They want guys like him on this team so younger players can see how this staff wants things done. 

 

On top of that, McDermott's defenses, save for a season or two in Carolina when they had some beasts up front on the DL, have never been the type of defenses that rack up crazy sack numbers. They consistently rush four and they don't do a whole lot of blitzing, stunts or other types of disguises to create pressure. They depend on their guy beating the guy across from them. 

 

I get it, people wanna criticize the team. People find concerns and come here to voice them, as silly as some of them seem. But they're 6-2... I'm really not that concerned if they don't have a pair of edge rushers with 15 sacks apiece already. These guys also have specific assignments from play to play. They aren't told to go get the QB on every single play. They have gap assignments, edge responsibility, etc. But for some people here, if they aren't seeing astronomical numbers and stats from some of these guys then they're crap. "He only gots 4 sacks, he crap! The other dude make too much money and he only got two sacks, he crap! He's stealin' money from MAH POCKET with his under-performing ways and DANGNABBIT I am gonna piss and moan like an impotent jerk all over this board!" Yeesh.

 

Yeah, I admit it'd be nice to get a bit more out of the pass rush but as it stands, they're middle of the league in terms of sacks/pressures right now so that's not really a major concern. Run defense was shaky to start yesterday but definitely shut things down in the second half. That'd be my main concern for the defense, continuing to stop the run. 

[ColoradoBills]

I believe most of us fans agree the DL has not played as well as we would of wished for.

An effective DL has to work as a team and things seem a little out of balance.

I'm thinking that the loss of Kyle Williams with his knowledge, leadership and consistent play has affected things a lot

more than I would have thought.

 

There should be a few new players on the DL next year and let's hope they can get it together a little more this year.

[Socal-805]

3 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

 

many of you including the OP are forgetting you all have no idea what is being asked of them on any given play. Yes, a DE's job is to create pressure and get sacks but if he is getting asked to fill a gap or seal an edge his job isn't to go full tilt towards the QB. In obvious pass plays, yes he is probably being told to do that, but unless you are right there in the coaches and player meetings none of us know for certain what his job is each play.

 

 

Well.  I pretty much know for certain the Bills are getting very little out of either D end position in terms of QB pressure.  And I'm pretty sure they are worked in the running game.

 

 

7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Hughes this season is on the last year of his contract extension he signed in 2015 when he was coming off of back to back 10 sack seasons. Contracts in the NFL tend to be back loaded money wise. Despite his 14.5 million salary his cap hit for 2019 is 12.9 million still a bit overpaid for his production. But his cap hits the past 4 seasons were 6.17 million in 2015, 7.5 million in 2016, 10.4 million in 2017 and 10.4 million in 2018. So the Bills are in 2019 essentially paying for Hughes cheaper contract numbers early in his deal. 

 

His cap hits in 2020 and 2021 are a modest 9.5 million each year with the ability to get out of his deal in 2021 at a low dead cap hit. The context of Hughes being paid his current number are the result of circumstances. Has he produced the sack totals the team wanted? No but his pressure numbers are good, he is stout against the run, and if you watch the games you know he is a factor. He should be a heavily productive rotation player the next 2 seasons at a fair cap number. He also has good value in the locker room. 

 

 

Thanks for the breakdown. 

 

I see the Pats year after year drop players a year before they stop producing or having impact:  Hughes is already pretty old, and getting older.

 

 

BAD thread I guess.  I like to play G.M.  

 

 

Also, FWIW:  I keep hearing about the Bills being a "young" team  They are not:  they are like 26 oldest team in NFL.

 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

3 minutes ago, cage said:

I had to say this on the Ed Oliver thread, but will have to repeat on this one.  Please subscribe to The Athletic before complaining about a player and then go check out the All-22 video analysis after each game.  JoeB does a game analysis and then has cumulative grades across all the games.  Jerry Hughes is the #3 ranked player on the team (offense and defense) in this analysis.  Higher than Milano, Poyer, Hyde or Edmunds.  He's 0.01 points behind Tre'Davious White in the grading system.  In this analysis JoeB looks at every play and grades every player on each play.  I think that analysis deserves more weight than our fly-by thoughts from watching on TV or in-person.

Hughes is a good all around Defensive End, thats why he is rated highly by people who look at more than sack numbers.  In terms of sacks, he has always been average numbers wise when he wasnt playing with a #1 pass rusher.   When Williams was here he put up double digit numbers, when Williams was done, Hughes' sack numbers declined.

 

He deserved the money for his all around play.   Probably a top 15 all around player as his position.   It would be great for the Bills to get an Elite pass rusher but when you're arent picking in the top five of the draft you dont often get one.  

[Elite Poster]

He's probably the third D lineman I would mention when it comes to overpaid D-line on this team. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

As many upthread have also already inferred, I find myself caring less and less about the per season take of our current roster, given the total amount of cushion Beane & Co have built into our salary cap since last year--almost an embarrassment of riches where I wonder how on earth we will be able to even spend up to the mandatory levels required by the league? Hey, down marker holder guy, yah, you over there, here's a cool 150K from Terry, for the quality of the enthusiasm you bring every day...  

[Nuncha]

43 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Who would you like to sign right now?

The discussion isn't about who to sign, I'm pretty sure the discussion was about Hughes being mostly invisible and not worth 14 million this season.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Azucho98

[Malazan]

Goodness this forum has become...so much less than it used to be.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

How does his contract impact you?  Why do you give a *****?  Are you just looking for something to B word and complain about?

Really? Hughes hasnt been the same player since Mario Williams left. He needs to take a GIANT paycut this year. 

[Nuncha]

48 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Did you think he was invisible on the field last season?

What does last season have to to with this season??  

 

How many times do we see Hughes have a clean shot at a QB sack and he flat out whiffs and doesn't get the QB down?  

 

Watch Fitzpatrick's running TD against us - who whiffed on the sack?  This is just one example - I'm pretty sure he had another whiff against Washington.  

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, Azucho98 said:

What does last season have to to with this season??  

 

How many times do we see Hughes have a clean shot at a QB sack and he flat out whiffs and doesn't get the QB down?  

 

Watch Fitzpatrick's running TD against us - who whiffed on the sack?  This is just one example - I'm pretty sure he had another whiff against Washington.  

 

 

He's been doing it for a few years. 

 

He's pretty good vs the run, though.

[shoretalk]

1 hour ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

I just looked at SPOTRAC for Hughes contract: $14 MIL this year?  I am reading this correctly?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/jerry-hughes-6540/

 

WHY are the Bills paying Jerry Hughes $14 mil this year?!?  He's basically invisible that I can tell.

 

 

• 1. Rams defensive lineman Aaron Donald: $22.5 million
• 2. Cowboys defensive lineman Demarcus Lawrence: $21 million
• 3. Chiefs defensive lineman Frank Clark: $20.8 million
• 4. Lions defensive lineman Trey Flowers: $18 million
• 5. Saints defensive lineman Cameron Jordan: $17.5 million  
• 6. 49ers defensive lineman Dee Ford: $17 million 
• 7. Browns defensive lineman Olivier Vernon: $17 million    
• 8. Eagles defensive lineman Fletcher Cox: $17 million
• 9. Falcons defensive lineman Grady Jarrett: $17 million
• 10. Texans defensive lineman J.J. Watt: $16.7 million

 

He may be the most overpaid D lineman in the league?

 

One of the most amazing truths about Buffalo fans is how we seem to think that the salaries paid to the players on our professional sports' teams are dollars we might otherwise have available for our personal spending.  Let's look at our defense with the exception of the game against the Eagles and then consider who the veteran leaders are … mmmm Jerry Hughes seems to be both an active on field leader and a locker room leader.  Salaries are based on past performance, which is something that will never change but teams are willing to pay leaders for their total impact on the team.  Being concerned about individual statistics rather than team or unit performance seems to be a fantasy league consideration but not someone who is truly is concerned with W's and L's.   If the team makes the playoffs then of course we'd want to celebrate individual achievements but at the end of the day I don't care about individual numbers if the W column finds us in the playoffs.  Such a ridiculous post … 

Je

1 hour ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

[Nuncha]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

He's been doing it for a few years. 

 

He's pretty good vs the run, though.

I guess we should be happy he is getting pressure....but if the QB gets away and nobody there to contain.... the QB runs and runs and runs like Fitz did (and scored).

[BringBackOrton]

12 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

The discussion isn't about who to sign, I'm pretty sure the discussion was about Hughes being mostly invisible and not worth 14 million this season.

Who is worth $14M available right now?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-jerry-hughes-is-an-unsung-hero-on-the-buffalo-bills-defense-fully-deserving-of-a-two-year-extension

 

here is why- 

[Nuncha]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Who is worth $14M available right now?

we have more than 14M in cap space so why stop there?

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Azucho98 said:

we have more than 14M in cap space so why stop there?

 

I guess that’s the point. Hughes’ value as our only pass rusher got him that extension. It was a contract that made sense at the time. It’s also not cap prohibitive at all. So if it made sense and isn’t cap prohibitive, WHO REALLY GIVES A *****.

[billsfan89]

20 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

Well.  I pretty much know for certain the Bills are getting very little out of either D end position in terms of QB pressure.  And I'm pretty sure they are worked in the running game.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the breakdown. 

 

I see the Pats year after year drop players a year before they stop producing or having impact:  Hughes is already pretty old, and getting older.

 

 

BAD thread I guess.  I like to play G.M.  

 

 

Also, FWIW:  I keep hearing about the Bills being a "young" team  They are not:  they are like 26 oldest team in NFL.

 

 

 

 

The Bills average age is thrown off a bit by Lorax and Frank Gore being super old and some of their depth players like Lee Smith being older. They aren’t a young team even factoring those things in but they aren’t an old team either. 

 

However the Bills remain young at critical positions, Josh is a young QB, Dawkins, Singletary, Knox, and Cody are young pieces on offense, Milano, Edumonds, Tre, Ed Oliver, H.Phillips (Injury not withstanding), Levi Wallace, T.Johnson, and Shaq Lawsons are all players who are either starters or playing significant snaps on defense. The past 3 drafts have produced a lot of players playing significant snaps which leads fans to think of the team as being younger. 

 

As far as the contracts the Bills are not really hampered by any of their current contracts. Star in my opinion is the only horrid contract on the roster. Kroft and Murphy can be cut with minimal dead cap hits, Brown and Mitch are fairly big contracts but both players are performing to their cap numbers, and Hughes might be a tad bit overpaid at 9.5 million but he still brings value. Star on the other hand carries a 7.8 million dollar dead cap hit if cut in 2020 (thus only a 3ish million dollar savings.) If they do designate Star as a post June 1stcut they would take a 3.65 dead cap hit in 2020 and 2021 but save 6.6 million in 2020 if they want to maximize their cap space in 2020. 

 

Still this team is in a good cap situation in 2020. If they cut Kroft and Murphy they will have 102 million in cap space. Their only major free agents are Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson. Granted they have Milano, Poyer, and Dawkins all on the last year of their deals and Tre White who could also use an extension (Although they will almost certainly use their 5thyear option on him.) I think they could take care of their own Free Agents easily and still have enough cap space to go after a big fish and another starter in free agency while still remaining prudent going forward. 

 

The way McBeane structured their contracts and added talent this off-season was great, they remain in a good position long term and things are looking good for this team to be able to continue to add and retain talent going forward. 

[Nuncha]

https://www.miamidolphins.com/video/ryan-fitzpatrick-scores-td-on-incredible-11-yard-scramble

 

This is too common with Jerry.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Azucho98

[ComradeKayAdams]

Basically, salary cap space isn't an issue this year and it won't be next year. It very well could be an issue in 2021, but the good news is that the dead cap hit for JH's contract in 2021 is only $2.1 million. Star's dead cap, by the way, is a bit higher at $5.2, but that can always be distributed partly into 2022. So in conclusion: Brandon Beane is in control of things. No need to worry.

 

Also, keep in mind that the Bills currently have the #3 NFL defense in points per game, yards per game, and opposing QB passer rating. I would definitely like to see improved stats in sack totals from Hughes, Oliver, Lawson, Murphy, etc... as well as a better run defense, but these guys are doing SOMETHING right for this defense to be #3 in those categories.

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

46 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Hughes this season is on the last year of his contract extension he signed in 2015 when he was coming off of back to back 10 sack seasons. Contracts in the NFL tend to be back loaded money wise. Despite his 14.5 million salary his cap hit for 2019 is 12.9 million still a bit overpaid for his production. But his cap hits the past 4 seasons were 6.17 million in 2015, 7.5 million in 2016, 10.4 million in 2017 and 10.4 million in 2018. So the Bills are in 2019 essentially paying for Hughes cheaper contract numbers early in his deal. 

 

His cap hits in 2020 and 2021 are a modest 9.5 million each year with the ability to get out of his deal in 2021 at a low dead cap hit. The context of Hughes being paid his current number are the result of circumstances. Has he produced the sack totals the team wanted? No but his pressure numbers are good, he is stout against the run, and if you watch the games you know he is a factor. He should be a heavily productive rotation player the next 2 seasons at a fair cap number. He also has good value in the locker room. 

 

I do suspect this team does bring in a big time edge rusher via free agency to get Hughes down to being the 2nd best pass rusher (a role he is better suited for) and the team has both the cap room to do so in a free agent class that boasts a lot of options as far as edge rushers go. 

 

I have not looked into who might be available, do you have some names that might be FAs?

[Mark80]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Did you think he was invisible on the field last season?

 

Invisible...not as much as this season.  He was also making 1/2 what he is making this year.

 

I understand we had money to spend.  I understand it would have been hard to find someone who is better via FA.  But I also understand that he is in no way shape or form a $14M player in my opinion.  Hopefully when it's back down to around $7.5M next year it will be an easier pill to swallow (if we even retain him).

[fan_in_tx]

1 hour ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

I just looked at SPOTRAC for Hughes contract: $14 MIL this year?  I am reading this correctly?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/jerry-hughes-6540/

 

WHY are the Bills paying Jerry Hughes $14 mil this year?!?  He's basically invisible that I can tell.

 

 

• 1. Rams defensive lineman Aaron Donald: $22.5 million
• 2. Cowboys defensive lineman Demarcus Lawrence: $21 million
• 3. Chiefs defensive lineman Frank Clark: $20.8 million
• 4. Lions defensive lineman Trey Flowers: $18 million
• 5. Saints defensive lineman Cameron Jordan: $17.5 million  
• 6. 49ers defensive lineman Dee Ford: $17 million 
• 7. Browns defensive lineman Olivier Vernon: $17 million    
• 8. Eagles defensive lineman Fletcher Cox: $17 million
• 9. Falcons defensive lineman Grady Jarrett: $17 million
• 10. Texans defensive lineman J.J. Watt: $16.7 million

 

He may be the most overpaid D lineman in the league?

 

 

 

Simple he receives $1 per every pass rush that he is held by the OL this year.   How many holding calls have gone his way?   0 

[Don Otreply]

Why? Just to piss you off, SM & BB get up every morning, and the first thing they think about is pissing you off, and as you have experienced first hand, they succeeded, it’s a process you know...

[Freddie's Dead]

Why not?

[DrDawkinstein]

43 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Goodness this forum has become...so much less than it used to be.

 

It's bad when we're losing, but even worse when we're winning and there isnt much to talk about. People need to make up stuff to be upset about.

[billsfan89]

24 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:

 

I have not looked into who might be available, do you have some names that might be FAs?

 

Clowney and Yannick Ngakoue are two prime time edge rushers who are more than likely to hit the market. Chris Jones from KC is another interior pass rusher on the market. There are also some other players that are on the bubble too but those are the big names. Personally I would love to see the Bills go in on Ngakoue to set the edge the next 3-5 years. 

[DrDawkinstein]

22 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

Invisible...not as much as this season.  He was also making 1/2 what he is making this year.

 

I understand we had money to spend.  I understand it would have been hard to find someone who is better via FA.  But I also understand that he is in no way shape or form a $14M player in my opinion.  Hopefully when it's back down to around $7.5M next year it will be an easier pill to swallow (if we even retain him).

 

You arent swallowing that pill. I'm not swallowing that pill. NONE of us here are swallowing that pill.

 

The only people who need to worry about it are Beane and Terry Pegula, and given the facts you understand in the beginning of your post, I doubt they care that much.

[hjnick]

2 hours ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

I just looked at SPOTRAC for Hughes contract: $14 MIL this year?  I am reading this correctly?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/jerry-hughes-6540/

 

WHY are the Bills paying Jerry Hughes $14 mil this year?!?  He's basically invisible that I can tell.

 

 

• 1. Rams defensive lineman Aaron Donald: $22.5 million
• 2. Cowboys defensive lineman Demarcus Lawrence: $21 million
• 3. Chiefs defensive lineman Frank Clark: $20.8 million
• 4. Lions defensive lineman Trey Flowers: $18 million
• 5. Saints defensive lineman Cameron Jordan: $17.5 million  
• 6. 49ers defensive lineman Dee Ford: $17 million 
• 7. Browns defensive lineman Olivier Vernon: $17 million    
• 8. Eagles defensive lineman Fletcher Cox: $17 million
• 9. Falcons defensive lineman Grady Jarrett: $17 million
• 10. Texans defensive lineman J.J. Watt: $16.7 million

 

He may be the most overpaid D lineman in the league?

 

 

 

Is he even the most overpaid D lineman on the team???

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Da webster guy said:

He got paid in the offseason, and last year he was impactful.   

 

The good news is that he matured and stopped getting a personal foul every game.   The bad news is he's lost a half step, but every team has players that are declining and overpaid for their contributions.   He's a good locker room guy, works hard and still chases plays down from the backside.  

 

Yep, and I don’t begrudge him the money. Heck, it’s not MY money! And we have plenty to go around right now. Now....I sure wish we were getting $14 mil worth of production, because we sure could use some more pressure! I’m sure that will be addressed in some way in the offseason. I won’t freak out over this. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

47 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Really? Hughes hasnt been the same player since Mario Williams left. He needs to take a GIANT paycut this year. 

He is only making $6 million.  

[MJS]

I do think he is overpaid and I do think that his impact is overblown by many. Plain and simple, he doesn't make a tremendous impact. He doesn't get sacks. He doesn't make tackles for loss.

 

He's the type that needs a dominant force rushing from the other side so that he can make an impact. Good player, just not worth his contract or an impact player. So I can see where the OP is coming from.

 

But that doesn't mean we drop him. We should just be looking for more pass rush help because we know Hughes isn't ever going to turn into a 12 sack more per year player, or even an 8-10 sack guy without a superstar on the other side.

[NewEra]

50 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

What does last season have to to with this season??  

 

How many times do we see Hughes have a clean shot at a QB sack and he flat out whiffs and doesn't get the QB down?  

 

Watch Fitzpatrick's running TD against us - who whiffed on the sack?  This is just one example - I'm pretty sure he had another whiff against Washington.  

 

 

Did you read the OP?  How he played last season is exactly the reason he’s getting paid that much.  No one thought he was getting overpaid when we signed him to his original extension either.  He has consistently generated pressure on the opposing QB.  

This year he’s been a bit disappointing, I’ll admit.  He’s always had his issues finishing off sacks and that too, is frustrating, but if you’re asking a DE to disrupt a qbs timing and feet in the pocket, Jerry has always been a source of that.  Which is why he’s getting paid. 

[nedboy7]

Let’s decide if someone is over or under paid each week based on that week. No make it a quarter. What?  I’m distracted!  

[NewEra]

47 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

Invisible...not as much as this season.  He was also making 1/2 what he is making this year.

 

I understand we had money to spend.  I understand it would have been hard to find someone who is better via FA.  But I also understand that he is in no way shape or form a $14M player in my opinion.  Hopefully when it's back down to around $7.5M next year it will be an easier pill to swallow (if we even retain him).

If you thought he was invisible last season than you either didn’t watch him play last season or I gave you too much credit previously.  
 

he’s not playing like a 14 mill player this season.  I agree with you in that respect.  Wouldn’t be surprised to see him turn it on and be the player he was last season, which happened to be effective at pressuring the QB (regardless of how you thought he played last season)

Edited November 4, 2019 by NewEra

[papazoid]

over rated...over rated....

 

for me, last year was his only good season.

 

currently has 2.5 sacks for the season...tied for about 80th best in league.