oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I would love to be a fly on the wall in the offense meeting room. I really wonder what goes on between the coaches and Josh Allen. I'd love to know if, for example, they are asking him what plays he likes in the game plan, what plays he wants thrown out. I'd love to know how much freedom he has in terms of checking to audibles. I say let Josh be Josh. Give him the keys to the car and let him drive. Give him freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage and so on. If you look at his fourth quarter heroics (before yesterday, which just stunk across the board), Josh has done well. When you do well in the fourth quarter it tells me the QB can make good decisions and good plays, make good reads and throws. Some have commented that he looks tentative the last couple games, and I agree. Let him play football. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Agreed. Let him throw. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) He is Being Coached into a Game Manager. Who would have thought that would happen from an Ultra Conservative Defensive minded HC. You traded up to 7th overall to get him, to what coach into him to be a Game Manager? Edited October 28, 2019 by MAJBobby 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Well, I see it both ways............we hate his gunslinger throws that get picked, but we hate the Tryhard Taylor approach also. Gonna be an interesting rest of the season! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 You also run a much higher chance of ending his season or career. There's a reason to the madness of keeping him on a leash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 What makes you think he is capable of that? The fact he has trouble versus the blitz tells me he is not the guy ready to be calling his own plays etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Seasons1992 said: Well, I see it both ways............we hate his gunslinger throws that get picked, but we hate the Tryhard Taylor approach also. Gonna be an interesting rest of the season! People Shouldnt. QBs throw Picks. That happens. Well if they are taking the shots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, GG said: You also run a much higher chance of ending his season or career. There's a reason to the madness of keeping him on a leash. I'm not necessarily talking about running, although it works for Jackson. I'm talking about game management, play calls, etc. I see a kid that in the fourth quarter has been very effective throwing the ball. And I see no reason why that can't translate to the entire game, if they would just loosen the reins. 2 minutes ago, ngbills said: What makes you think he is capable of that? The fact he has trouble versus the blitz tells me he is not the guy ready to be calling his own plays etc. How he has played in the fourth quarter of games tells me that. He'll screw up some calls, sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Let him sling it. He has the talent to put a ball anywhere. But he needs to improve decision making. I think he second guesses himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I agree, but am hesitant... If he had a legit #1 WR, I’m all on board. He doesn’t have a Hopkins, Hill/Kelce, Odell etc., that some of these other young QBs have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: I'm not necessarily talking about running, although it works for Jackson. I'm talking about game management, play calls, etc. I see a kid that in the fourth quarter has been very effective throwing the ball. And I see no reason why that can't translate to the entire game, if they would just loosen the reins. The two go hand in hand. If you loosen the grip, his bad habits come back because he's still not a good passer and consistently bails to the run when he's panicked. Everybody knew that he would be a long term project if he is to be successful. Now, half that crowd wants to abandon the development because they don't like the growing pains. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILBillsfan Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) I see a young quarterback that isn’t 100% in trusting his reads and is hesitant at times for fear of the turnover he is still young and learning some patience and growing pains w a young quarterback that in today’s nfl seem to be non existent anymore Edited October 28, 2019 by ILBillsfan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Why are we assuming that he already doesn’t? As far as I know and from what both Daboll and Allen have said, he has the freedom to set protections and change plays at the line based on what the defense is showing. Im all for being pass happy though. Let the kid sling the rock. If he ends up doing great then we hit the jackpot. If he ends being more of he same or worse then we’ll know what we have. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, GG said: The two go hand in hand. If you loosen the grip, his bad habits come back because he's still not a good passer and consistently bails to the run when he's panicked. Everybody knew that he would be a long term project if he is to be successful. Now, half that crowd wants to abandon the development because they don't like the growing pains. I think his growth would be enhanced by loosening the reins, but I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 There has to be a middle ground in a sense. I'm glad he is learning not to make the terrible INT throws, but at the same time you have to let him be himself on the field. Daboll IS the problem. No innovation, no situational game awareness, no in game adjustments, and he is overcomplicating things for everyone. Josh is going to throw an INT here or there, so did Favre. At the same time you have to let him do what he does best. In the last 3 games he has 6 TD's to 1 INT, but everyone wants to harp on the fumbles now. It's like the article said, the guy can't win for losing with the fans and the media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden*Wheels Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 It's like they beat the longball out of him, then told him IF he ever went long, that he better go LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG. I'll take the occasional 40 yard long "punt" INT over the turnover in the pocket. I'll also take the gamble on him running and getting hurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, H2o said: There has to be a middle ground in a sense. I'm glad he is learning not to make the terrible INT throws, but at the same time you have to let him be himself on the field. Daboll IS the problem. No innovation, no situational game awareness, no in game adjustments, and he is overcomplicating things for everyone. Josh is going to throw an INT here or there, so did Favre. At the same time you have to let him do what he does best. In the last 3 games he has 6 TD's to 1 INT, but everyone wants to harp on the fumbles now. It's like the article said, the guy can't win for losing with the fans and the media. Just look at the Primary Reads. Most Route concepts a QB Reads go from TD to First Down to Checkdown. Daboll seems to have the reads designed to safe throw is the primary read. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Just look at the Primary Reads. Most Route concepts a QB Reads go from TD to First Down to Checkdown. Daboll seems to have the reads designed to safe throw is the primary read. And the Eagles were sitting on it all day, even though Josh was having a solid game until the Eagles started pinning their ears back as the lead grew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Lot's of threads going on with similar subject matter about Josh. As i said in another post. the coaches may now have to allow Josh to play more of his style of game...which is the opposite of the Robotic pocket passer guy they are forcing him to be. I've just about had enough with the chucking it out of bounds or at the Linemen's feet and wasting downs.. He needs to take off and run, make a play. He's a huge weapon. He doesn't have to hurdle guys,.. slide or go out of bounds.. manage the risk as best he can. He's also pretty good at throwing on the run when he scrambles. No one wants to see interceptions..but it happens. That's why teams want to see a 2:1 TD to INT ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 We have seen that movie before. It is weird how quickly we forget It comes out to about: - 175 passing yards per game - More INT's than TD's (not a lot of TD's) - The second worst scoring offense in the NFL - 52% completion - 30% on 3rd down - 5 wins to 7 losses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 All of this "blame Daboll" stuff is laughable. Has Dabolls play calling been perfect? Not a chance. But the real issue this past game was Josh's accuracy. They weren't moving the chains like they have in the past, and a lot of that was on Josh just flat out missing throws. He had the time. Receivers were open. But he just wasn't hitting them. We know he can do better. He just needs to execute.. that's all it comes down to imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, berg1029 said: All of this "blame Daboll" stuff is laughable. Has Dabolls play calling been perfect? Not a chance. But the real issue this past game was Josh's accuracy. They weren't moving the chains like they have in the past, and a lot of that was on Josh just flat out missing throws. He had the time. Receivers were open. But he just wasn't hitting them. We know he can do better. He just needs to execute.. that's all it comes down to imo Lets see does that have to do with the 40MPH Winds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 At what point do we all admit that Josh Allen simply isn’t good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Wayne Arnold said: At what point do we all admit that Josh Allen simply isn’t good enough? After next season. Growth is there, just not as fast as some want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Wayne Arnold said: At what point do we all admit that Josh Allen simply isn’t good enough? After another full season. I need all of next year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 22 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Why are we assuming that he already doesn’t? As far as I know and from what both Daboll and Allen have said, he has the freedom to set protections and change plays at the line based on what the defense is showing. Im all for being pass happy though. Let the kid sling the rock. If he ends up doing great then we hit the jackpot. If he ends being more of he same or worse then we’ll know what we have. This. I still have all the confidence in the world that we have a special talent at QB right now, but I wonder if all the emphasis on the short game over the offseason to the exclusion of all else for his game, has been a factor in why it's been so difficult to mirror the long balls from back half of last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Lets see does that have to do with the 40MPH Winds? Carson Wentz completed 70% of his passes on the same day... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said: This. I still have all the confidence in the world that we have a special talent at QB right now, but I wonder if all the emphasis on the short game over the offseason to the exclusion of all else for his game, has been a factor in why it's been so difficult to mirror the long balls from back half of last year. We took the Route Concept he was hitting on "long balls" out of the game-plan. We dont have that deep dig that we ran last year. Essentially every deep ball is a "Go" Route which is a low percentage pass to begin with. Just now, Mango said: Carson Wentz completed 70% of his passes on the same day... Did you watch the game? Or just look at stats, because most of his Balls where screens and short throws. (ie Winds not effecting as much) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: At what point do we all admit that Josh Allen simply isn’t good enough? When he no longer has a winning record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Lets see does that have to do with the 40MPH Winds? Why was Carson Wentz so efficient? It's not like Allen was just chucking it up into the wind. He throws a tight spiral and keeps it low for the most part. Blaming it on the wind is copping out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Lets see does that have to do with the 40MPH Winds? But look at pretty much every game before that when Josh attempted > 20 yard passes; they ended up 5+ beyond the intended receiver, without fail. I saw (last week, I believe) an article where Daboll or McD said something to the effect of we're working on Josh's accuracy, it's not where it needs to be. So it would seem the coaches know accuracy is an issue on the longer throws. I think Josh will get there, at least right now there are bigger problems than Josh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, berg1029 said: Why was Carson Wentz so efficient? It's not like Allen was just chucking it up into the wind. He throws a tight spiral and keeps it low for the most part. Blaming it on the wind is copping out Again How many Screens did Philly run? Just now, Happy Gilmore said: But look at pretty much every game before that when Josh attempted > 20 yard passes; they ended up 5+ beyond the intended receiver, without fail. I saw (last week, I believe) an article where Daboll or McD said something to the effect of we're working on Josh's accuracy, it's not where it needs to be. So it would seem the coaches know accuracy is an issue on the longer throws. I think Josh will get there, at least right now there are bigger problems than Josh. You mean when he has consistently over 60%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Again How many Screens did Philly run? You mean when he has consistently over 60%? You bring up screens/short passes and Carson Wentz. So that doesn't apply to Josh Allen as well? I think that has something to do with it, like you mentioned in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Are we unleashing another QB?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, H2o said: And the Eagles were sitting on it all day, even though Josh was having a solid game until the Eagles started pinning their ears back as the lead grew. 84 yards and 3 fumbles is not a solid first half. Its pitiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: You bring up screens/short passes and Carson Wentz. So that doesn't apply to Josh Allen as well? I think that has something to do with it, like you mentioned in this thread. For the record 13 of Wentz's 17 completions where inside 5 yards from the LOS. Now I will go chart Allens Attempts 5 minutes ago, berg1029 said: Why was Carson Wentz so efficient? It's not like Allen was just chucking it up into the wind. He throws a tight spiral and keeps it low for the most part. Blaming it on the wind is copping out when 13 of 17 completions are all inside 5 yards of the LOS it isnt a cop out it is a Team that understands the conditions they are playing in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I think folks need to confront the idea that this season was not about going all-in to develop Josh even if it meant losing winnable games. It was (and is) about fielding the most competitive team possible while using the proverbial clubs in Josh's golf bag to score enough points to win games, hoping all the while that Josh would develop along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: When he no longer has a winning record? By this logic, Tim Tebow was a good QB and so was Tyrod when he was here. Edited October 28, 2019 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Amen. Let it rip Josh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) Carson Wentz intended Air Yards Per Completion 4.8 Completed Air Yards 3.7 Josh Allen intended Air Yards per Completion 8.9 Completed Air Yards 5.4 So tell me that 40MPH winds were not a issue with Allens Ball placement. So seems Eagles had a Better Game Plan in terms of throwing the ball for the Weather Conditions Sunday https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2019/8#average-intended-yards Edited October 28, 2019 by MAJBobby 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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