QB A vs QB B

[GreggTX]

Josh didn't throw 18 TD's last year. He threw several more interceptions than TD passes.

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He was on the Chiefs until he retired this offseason.  But what does Andy Reid know about qbs?

 

of course you were the guy laughing about Mahomes last offseason. 

 

At his funny voice, yes.

 

Andy Reid??  EJ was on the Chiefs from February until May, so he never even put on pads for "Andy Reid"  lol.  Get out of here with that BS.

 

12 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

That in no way proves your point. Considering Hackett was a first time OC. Entirely possible, seeing as how bad he was in Buffalo, that his offensive system wasnt overly intricate or hard to grasp.

 

Exactly, yet EJ struggled mightily.

 

 

 

[uticaclub]

21 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

If you can't tell the difference, as a QB, between Manuel and Allen you shouldn't be watching football. 

 

Raw statistical comparisons, especially so small a small sample size, are a very poor method for comparing different quarterbacks.

Josh is going to get a longer leech than EJ did, but the results be in the same, hopefully Barkley can be our Kyle Orton and make the second half of the season interesting

[atlbillsfan1975]

The only thing I hope we learn from the EJ experience is not to give up on a QB too soon. 

Allen is going to develop. 

[Jauronimo]

The main difference between EJ and Allen at this point is this:

 

EJ: stutter step, pat the ball, pat the ball again, stutter step, quick pat, crow hop and EJ floats the ball out of bounds.  On comes the punt team.

 

Allen: LLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRROYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY  JENKINNNSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs!  

[apuszczalowski]

27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

At his funny voice, yes.

 

Andy Reid??  EJ was on the Chiefs from February until May, so he never even put on pads for "Andy Reid"  lol.  Get out of here with that BS.

 

 

Exactly, yet EJ struggled mightily.

 

 

 

You said the entire NFL gave up on EJ, it only took a couple of teams and a few years later though.......

[Just Joshin']

On 9/30/2019 at 10:25 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Everyone in the NFL gave up on EJ. 

 

A big part of EJ's problem was that he's too dumb to play NFL QB.

I think it was also his lack of leadership skills. The current team responds to Josh while EJ did not inspire the team to success.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

You said the entire NFL gave up on EJ, it only took a couple of teams and a few years later though.......

Yes, it sure did.

 

Only one other team put a uniform on him after the Bills.  The Raiders had him for a bit.  Then he was done in 2017.  They signed and released him in the 2018 off season.  KC signed him and he quickly retired.  He hasn't played in 2 years.  The NFL is done with him since then.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:16 AM, JoPar_v2 said:

ripping tim graham’s tweet to start a thread and not giving credit? Boo.

 

Uh oh we all know what Tim thought of EJ.  This can’t be good 

[Boatdrinks]

22 hours ago, Bandito said:

We all know the reason why Allen is playing and EJ got cut. One is... and one is... 

 

lol jk

Yes, we do. One can’t throw the football like an NFL Quarterback. The other can, but tries to do too much and forces things. Apples to oranges really. 

[Jauronimo]

25 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

I think it was also his lack of leadership skills. The current team responds to Josh while EJ did not inspire the team to success.

Who could forget that visor.  You can't lead from behind a visor!!!!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

let me try- completions to the hospitality tent: 

 

QB A 1/1

 

QB B 0/0 

 

guess who?

 

Look- I liked EJ to, like Trent the game never slowed down. He was too erratic and he panicked to quickly. I think part of the issue is most Bills fans don’t even know what developing a young QB into a good one even looks like. 

 

Jim Kelly was absolutely aweful in the beginning. 

 

Josh May still bust too, but he just looks more competent, accurate and the mistakes he keeps making seem the most coachable. Now get the man some stud WRs. And let’s go 

[Boatdrinks]

On 9/30/2019 at 10:30 AM, Stank_Nasty said:

So we realize the Pats secondary is elite and got the best of Allen. Here's a big question for me...… there were a handful(not many, but a couple) of plays where he had a TON of time in the pocket and didn't pull the trigger. I have to wonder if everyone was blanketed or if he just didn't see what he needed to see. I really wanna see him nail some chunk throws in that those situations going forward against lessor secondary's.... the fan in me is hoping it was just the pats defense covering THAT good.

He needed to be more like Brady and realize that when a play had next to no chance due to coverage, he had to throw it into the stands. Not the dirt, as TB doesn’t get called for grounding in those situations but Allen definitely would. He missed an open guy a couple times, but should have gotten rid of it sooner. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Most QB's start out with bad numbers.........some work their way out of it.  I have seen signs that Allen is able to improve.   EJ was peaking at this point.....Allen still has a higher ceiling to me.  I definitely wonder if he can truly make it or not but for 2019 I am hitched to him and hope he succeeds.   But he needs to stop thinking he can fix world hunger on each play.

[Alphadawg7]

Guess who threw 24 Interceptions in his first 15 games...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Peyton Manning.

 

So maybe take a chill pill and use your eyes and realize Allen is no where near the same as Manuel.  

 

This board is always full of really stupid hot take over reactions after a loss.  This thread is among the contenders of the dumbest ones, so congrats, that’s a hard thing to accomplish in a post loss TSW week with so much competition.  

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[John from Riverside]

On 9/30/2019 at 6:20 AM, Wayne Cubed said:

Yea that's Josh Allen and EJ Manuel.

 

Josh does have 11 rushing TDs but as passers...

Which absolutely has to be included in Josh Allen's stats

[DCOrange]

I think EJ was likely never going to pan out (and I didn't think highly of him as a prospect in the lead up to the draft either even though I had been told he was our target), but I also think he had a crazy short leash considering the okay-ish play that we got out of him. To only give him 16 starts, most of which came in a year where he was never meant to play to begin with, was pretty crazy.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

I think EJ was likely never going to pan out (and I didn't think highly of him as a prospect in the lead up to the draft either even though I had been told he was our target), but I also think he had a crazy short leash considering the okay-ish play that we got out of him. To only give him 16 starts, most of which came in a year where he was never meant to play to begin with, was pretty crazy.

Completely lost in this stat munching is Manuel and Allen are two completely different players with different skill sets.

 

You show me where Manuel gets away from would be sacks the way Allen does

You show me the rushing for 1st downs and touchdowns that Allen does that Manuel did not (oh thats right.....not even included because the OP has a agenda

You show me the 4th quarter comebacks that Allen has and Manuel does not

[TheFunPolice]

another "coulda been a contender" thread...

 

So many past Bills QBs that, if given a REAL chance, would've made it.... 

[Mango]

On 9/30/2019 at 10:25 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Everyone in the NFL gave up on EJ. 

 

A big part of EJ's problem was that he's too dumb to play NFL QB.

 

EJ retired after being signed by KC to back up Mahomes. The league didn't give up on him. he retired. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Guess who threw 24 Interceptions in his first 15 games...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Peyton Manning.

 

So maybe take a chill pill and use your eyes and realize Allen is no where near the same as Manuel.  

 

This board is always full of really stupid hot take over reactions after a loss.  This thread is among the contenders of the dumbest ones, so congrats, that’s a hard thing to accomplish in a post loss TSW week with so much competition.  

 

 

Peyton joined a 1-15 team.  Allen joined a team coming off a playoff berth that had the 2nd best defense in the nfl.  There were also completely different rules when Manning was a rookie. Not exactly apples to apples.

 

and I don’t think the EJ comparison is as far of as you claim it to be.  They both were question for their accuracy coming out.  They both have all the physical skills. I love the mindset Allen plays the game with but he’s never been a consistent player on any level.  What makes for a true franchise guy is maddeningly levels of consistency.  Allen seems like a guy who is going to full of highs and lows.  

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Completely lost in this stat munching is Manuel and Allen are two completely different players with different skill sets.

 

You show me where Manuel gets away from would be sacks the way Allen does

You show me the rushing for 1st downs and touchdowns that Allen does that Manuel did not (oh thats right.....not even included because the OP has a agenda

You show me the 4th quarter comebacks that Allen has and Manuel does not

EJ’s comeback against the number 2 ranked defense in Carolina was the best Bills comeback in years.  

 

Allen plays the way I wanted EJ to play.  He also makes some very bad decisions. I won’t want to take away his aggression but this is some of the concerns some people had about him.  What makes Brady so good is he’s pretty much the same player every game.  

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Peyton joined a 1-15 team.  Allen joined a team coming off a playoff berth that had the 2nd best defense in the nfl.  There were also completely different rules when Manning was a rookie. Not exactly apples to apples.

 

and I don’t think the EJ comparison is as far of as you claim it to be.  They both were question for their accuracy coming out.  They both have all the physical skills. I love the mindset Allen plays the game with but he’s never been a consistent player on any level.  What makes for a true franchise guy is maddeningly levels of consistency.  Allen seems like a guy who is going to full of highs and lows.  

EJ’s comeback against the number 2 ranked defense in Carolina was the best Bills comeback in years.  

 

Allen plays the way I wanted EJ to play.  He also makes some very bad decisions. I won’t want to take away his aggression but this is some of the concerns some people had about him.  What makes Brady so good is he’s pretty much the same player every game.  

Josh Allen has more 4th quarter comebacks

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Josh Allen has more 4th quarter comebacks

The counter is with our defense, he shouldn’t need the fourth quarter comeback.  Think about that pathetic Titans game last year.  Not all comeback are the same.  

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The counter is with our defense, he shouldn’t need the fourth quarter comeback.  Think about that pathetic Titans game last year.  Not all comeback are the same.  

C.   there is no counter

 

We were behind

 

Josh Allen brought them back

[jrober38]

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Josh Allen has more 4th quarter comebacks

 

Allen seems to be good with the game on the line.

 

It's the other 90% of each game that he's really poor that needs improving. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

C.   there is no counter

 

We were behind

 

Josh Allen brought them back

But with better offense, that game doesn’t need to come down to that.  I’ve seen some good things with Allen.  But I think some fans underestimate how Huge of an advantage having a great D is for a young qb.  Allen is in a pretty good spot here.  Now, we just need to get a stud too target. 

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Completely lost in this stat munching is Manuel and Allen are two completely different players with different skill sets.

 

You show me where Manuel gets away from would be sacks the way Allen does

You show me the rushing for 1st downs and touchdowns that Allen does that Manuel did not (oh thats right.....not even included because the OP has a agenda

You show me the 4th quarter comebacks that Allen has and Manuel does not

 

I won't waste too much time on this because I think we probably both agree that Allen is a far better prospect than EJ was. Totally agree that they aren't very similar as players; someone else summed it up pretty well. Can't remember who, but they mentioned that EJ flat out looked like a bad QB; Allen looks like a talented QB that's making unnecessary mistakes right now. I think it's pretty much as simple as that between the two of them. Allen has far better tools and passes the eye test much better than EJ; he just needs to cut some of these poor decisions out and avoid letting his mechanics revert like they did this week.

 

Having said all that, EJ did lead two game winning drives his rookie year, which is right in line with Allen.

 

But again, I don't think EJ was particularly close to Allen as a prospect.

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

I won't waste too much time on this because I think we probably both agree that Allen is a far better prospect than EJ was. Totally agree that they aren't very similar as players; someone else summed it up pretty well. Can't remember who, but they mentioned that EJ flat out looked like a bad QB; Allen looks like a talented QB that's making unnecessary mistakes right now. I think it's pretty much as simple as that between the two of them. Allen has far better tools and passes the eye test much better than EJ; he just needs to cut some of these poor decisions out and avoid letting his mechanics revert like they did this week.

 

Having said all that, EJ did lead two game winning drives his rookie year, which is right in line with Allen.

 

But again, I don't think EJ was particularly close to Allen as a prospect.

We are in game 4

 

Lots of games left for Allen to improve that 4th quarter comeback stat

[section122]

I still remember being at the bar during that Cleveland game thinking EJ might actually be the guy.  Then he got hurt.  He didn't get a fair shot here.  I will never believe that Kyle Orton did better than EJ could have that year.  Orton's infamous slide will be my counter to any argument for him.

 

It's weird that he would leave off completion % when it would actually be in his favor Josh is at 55% and EJ at 58.4%

 

Josh has a much better arm than EJ and much better running ability.  There stats may be similar for 15 games total but when you look at their second seasons it is a different story:

 

Josh: 225.8 ypg, 6 total tds, 6 ints, 6.9 ypa, 60.3 comp %

EJ: 167.6 ypg, 6 total tds, 3 ints, 6.4 ypa, 58.0 com %

 

Josh had an increase in ypg, ypa and comp %

EJ lower ypg, same ypa, and lowe comp %

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

We are in game 4

 

Lots of games left for Allen to improve that 4th quarter comeback stat

I’d rather have less 4th quarter comebacks and games that are blowouts. ?

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, section122 said:

I still remember being at the bar during that Cleveland game thinking EJ might actually be the guy.  Then he got hurt.  He didn't get a fair shot here.  I will never believe that Kyle Orton did better than EJ could have that year.  Orton's infamous slide will be my counter to any argument for him.

 

It's weird that he would leave off completion % when it would actually be in his favor Josh is at 55% and EJ at 58.4%

 

Josh has a much better arm than EJ and much better running ability.  There stats may be similar for 15 games total but when you look at their second seasons it is a different story:

 

Josh: 225.8 ypg, 6 total tds, 6 ints, 6.9 ypa, 60.3 comp %

EJ: 167.6 ypg, 6 total tds, 3 ints, 6.4 ypa, 58.0 com %

 

Josh had an increase in ypg, ypa and comp %

EJ lower ypg, same ypa, and lowe comp %

 

 

 

EJ was complete trash.

 

His first four games his second season were the worst I've seen from any QB. He had no business being on the field following the Chargers and Texans games. 

[Buffalo716]

EJ also had Sammy Watkins, Robert woods, Marquise Goodwin , Freddy .. host of good offensive talent

 

 

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

EJ also had Sammy Watkins, Robert woods, Marquise Goodwin , Freddy .. host of good offensive talent

 

 

 

Woods and Goodwin were rookies. TJ Graham was actually our #3 receiver when EJ was a rookie. Scott Chandler was our leading receiver his rookie year. 

 

Watkins came in Manuel's 2nd season. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Woods and Goodwin were rookies. TJ Graham was actually our #3 receiver when EJ was a rookie. Scott Chandler was our leading receiver his rookie year. 

 

Watkins came in Manuel's 2nd season. 

I don't think i ever said how long they were in the league, and Robert woods came into the league a stud, he caught everything

 

Manuel's second year , he had a top 5 pick WR, a second year WR some labled the best in the draft , hella speed in Goodwin and a phenomenal running game.

 

We weren't devoid of talent.. Kyle Orton threw for 250 ypg and led us to 9-7

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think i ever said how long they were in the league, and Robert woods came into the league a stud, he caught everything

 

Manuel's second year , he had a top 5 pick WR, a second year WR some labled the best in the draft , hella speed in Goodwin and a phenomenal running game.

 

We weren't devoid of talent.. Kyle Orton threw for 250 ypg and led us to 9-7

 

I agree with that. 

 

By year two there was an established supporting cast, and EJ couldn't have played worse. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Now, we just need to get a stud too target. 

 

Paging Mr. Diggs. Mr. Diggs to OBD, please.

 

[JMF2006]

On 9/30/2019 at 10:25 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Everyone in the NFL gave up on EJ. 

 

A big part of EJ's problem was that he's too dumb to play NFL QB.

 

Nice guy though  

Just now, JMF2006 said:

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by JMF2006
tried to fix the winky guy

[MJS]

EJ can't hold Josh's jock strap. He maxed out his potential whereas Josh hasn't even scratched the surface. Clear as day when you watch them play. Allen has game winning drives and 4th quarter comebacks and tons of rushing production that can't be ignored. He also has a win percentage above .500.

 

Not even in the same league.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Will you nitwits stop comparing Josh Allen to every ***** former QB of the Bills?  Jesus Christ you guys are so out of control.  Take some Midol

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Will you nitwits stop comparing Josh Allen to every ***** former QB of the Bills?  Jesus Christ you guys are so out of control.  Take some Midol

 

This is a pinnable comment if I ever saw one...