Maiorana's Report: Realism or Pessimism?

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Can’t argue with most of his points, I am still hoping Edmunds reaches that Patrick Willis level of play I thought he would be capable of.  

 

I’ve been wondering where the deep ball has been, but just hoping it’s been more a case of defenses trying to take it away and force Josh to make accurate short/intermediate throws because they assumed he had accuracy issues.

[CincyBillsFan]

18 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Maiorana sounds as objective as he can be, and he seems more concerned about the Bills than pessimistic. Perhaps it is a wake up call and Maiorana is making valid points  about a few issues that need to be addressed. The same things that opposing coaches will be analyzing on film.

 

I doubt there's anything that Sal pointed out that the Bills coaches aren't aware of. 

 

And we're all concerned about the Bills because as Bills fans we're deeply uneasy sitting here at 3 - 0.  We don't need the Bills beat writer to go ALL negative after the team goes 3 - 0 to start the season.

 

 

[Rocket94]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I doubt there's anything that Sal pointed out that the Bills coaches aren't aware of. 

 

And we're all concerned about the Bills because as Bills fans we're deeply uneasy sitting here at 3 - 0.  We don't need the Bills beat writer to go ALL negative after the team goes 3 - 0 to start the season.

 

 

I get your point, but he actually sounds like many of us on here. You don't think that I am uneasy? 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Rocket94

[CincyBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Can’t argue with most of his points, I am still hoping Edmunds reaches that Patrick Willis level of play I thought he would be capable of.  

 

I’ve been wondering where the deep ball has been, but just hoping it’s been more a case of defenses trying to take it away and force Josh to make accurate short/intermediate throws because they assumed he had accuracy issues.

 

It's not so much the points he makes but rather it's the timing for this article.  Why crap on the parade BEFORE the Pats game. 

 

Here's my uncharitable opinion of why he wrote this.  The odds are decent that the Pats blow the Bills up on Sunday.  So Sal wants to get his digs in ahead of time so he can say I TOLD YOU SO.  SEE HOW SMART I AM!

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Rocket94 said:

I get your point, but he actually sounds like many of us on here. You don't think that I am uneasy? 

 

And that's my problem with Sal (& others).  He's supposed to be a "professional" and yet he comes across as a petulant overly negative fan.  As the beat writer he needs to be telling us what we've been doing well to be at 3 - 0.  If he wants to be critical address where we don't match up well with the Pats.  Warn us about where he thinks the Pats can exploit us.  Instead he pounds on Edmunds and laments that Allen missed a long throw. 

[Rocket94]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

And that's my problem with Sal (& others).  He's supposed to be a "professional" and yet he comes across as a petulant overly negative fan.  As the beat writer he needs to be telling us what we've been doing well to be at 3 - 0.  If he wants to be critical address where we don't match up well with the Pats.  Warn us about where he thinks the Pats can exploit us.  Instead he pounds on Edmunds and laments that Allen missed a long throw. 

I get it, and to be honest with you, I am no big fan of the pundits and I never was. I do not know Maiorana, and to me, he sounds no more informed than any of us here. Yes, he did tell us things that we already know...I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

[BillsVet]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

As he did in week 16 last season.

 

I just haven't been impressed with Edmunds. Everyone seemed to talk it up, but his issues from last season are still glaring. Shedding blocks, reacting, and getting dragged for tackles.

 

A few voices in the wilderness last year that Edmunds' play was troubling.  They were met with a chorus that said he was young and instincts could more or less be learned from film study, game experience, et al.  

 

It's still early, but there are four players (Dawkins, Z. Jones, Edmunds, and Ford) Buffalo traded up for during the McBeane years who aren't improving.  

[Rocket94]

27 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

And that's my problem with Sal (& others).  He's supposed to be a "professional" and yet he comes across as a petulant overly negative fan.  As the beat writer he needs to be telling us what we've been doing well to be at 3 - 0.  If he wants to be critical address where we don't match up well with the Pats.  Warn us about where he thinks the Pats can exploit us.  Instead he pounds on Edmunds and laments that Allen missed a long throw. 

Sorry...I had a lot of work to catch up on and I am operating with little sleep. I just wanted to say that while I agreed with some of his article, I never like the way these guys can come across...it does sometimes offend our sensibility as fans. I hope you don't lose any sleep over it either.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Sorry...I had a lot of work to catch up on and I am operating with little sleep. I just wanted to say that while I agreed with some of his article, I never like the way these guys can come across...it does sometimes offend our sensibility as fans. I hope you don't lose any sleep over it either.

 

Not a chance!  Like you I find it annoying but that's about it.

 

 

[Trogdor]

Edmunds and Ford are in the same boat for me. Both of them are great football players in the wrong position. I don't think it's a surprise that many in the draft had Edmunds at OLB and Ford at RG. I'm not sure if it's just trying to justify their draft slot, but that's where they end up when this testing is over IMO. I'm still a big fan of Edmunds though and he can be a force at OLB. I'm not even sure that he is running the defense like some people believe. The safeties seem to come up and make changes pres-nap, but I don't see Edmunds moving guys around that often. Before I get flamed, I still really like Edmunds lol keep that in mind. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Why is everyone so sure that Edwards has been bad? Could it be that he’s trying to maintain his gap (fit it up, as Dave Wanstedt would say) more than anything. 

 

It would be interesting to hear someone that really knows football to analyze his play. 

[Rocket94]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Not a chance!  Like you I find it annoying but that's about it.

 

 

Hell, sometimes I read those columns for a good laugh. I love their dignified and "esteemed" opinions! Real bad TV is good too!

[WideNine]

17 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Edmunds and Ford are in the same boat for me. Both of them are great football players in the wrong position. I don't think it's a surprise that many in the draft had Edmunds at OLB and Ford at RG. I'm not sure if it's just trying to justify their draft slot, but that's where they end up when this testing is over IMO. I'm still a big fan of Edmunds though and he can be a force at OLB. I'm not even sure that he is running the defense like some people believe. The safeties seem to come up and make changes pres-nap, but I don't see Edmunds moving guys around that often. Before I get flamed, I still really like Edmunds lol keep that in mind. 

 

No flaming.

 

Have not noticed the safeties making the adjustments, but would not be shocked if they and Lorax with their experience take that on more often than not.

 

Will look for it, but as a group they all seem to communicate a lot which is a good thing.

 

The defence overall is pretty solid, but that does not mean there are players that do not need to step up their game, or areas that the team does not need to work on.

 

Last year NE had a lot of success running the ball on us. Our LBs were late hitting the holes, we did not set the edges, and blockers were getting out to the second level.

 

Never know what ol' Belichick is going to cook up for us this time.

 

 

 

[Protocal69]

2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I always thought Edmunds would be better suited in a pass rushing capacity rather than MLB....he just doesn’t seem to have the natural instincts imo....

I also thought that Milano had the natural instincts to play MLB

[Big Blitz]

I don't disagree with a thing in that article.  Edmunds and Oliver have done very little.  So far. 

 

But I don't know how you can't acknowledge the overall numbers against 3 of the best backs in the league.  We did fine and thru 2 quarters we held a QB and an offende that was on fire for 2 games to less than 50 yards.  Someone's doing something right.   

 

We will see how they handle Chubb, Henry, Zeke, and Conner.   Edmunds and Oliver have to be better by the 2nd half of the season.  I think they will.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I think this is the unique moment when almost everyone is correct.  The criticism is fair.  He is only 21.  He has made some plays but not as many as one typically sees from the MLB position.  At this point in his career he may be better suited for OLB - less need to diagnose plays and can just rush or drop in coverage.   Maybe he is better suited at OLB for his entire career.  Who knows.  

But at this point, barring injury you stay the course and let him learn MLB.  If he doesn't get better by year end then they face a difficult off-season decision to move him to OLB and draft a new MLB.  But for now, you just let him play and learn.

 

[Paulus]

Edmunds has made some brilliant plays this year, and is a clutch player. Yes, he makes mistakes, just like Josh. Young players, playing clutch ball at an elite level. There is no reason to get big headed, but there is also no reason to be all Monday morning QB, without acknowledging their clutch performances. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I always thought Edmunds would be better suited in a pass rushing capacity rather than MLB....he just doesn’t seem to have the natural instincts imo....

TREMAINE: I re-watched the entire Cinncy game. Edmunds does struggle to play MLB. Its like he has no clue where the hole will be to fill? He's fast as hell but the MLB instincts are not there yet. He is so young so hopefully time will help?

ST:  Both punt and kickoff teams were awful in blocking and tackling.

JOSH: Bills fans will have to be patient.  He is still an improving "work in progress". He's going to continue to learn from mistakes. He's not Mahomes but he just could be a top 10 qb someday. Get rid of the ball sooner and get your eyes involved on progressions.

GORE: He was amazing considering his age and mileage. But we still need Devin back soon. Wouldn't surprise me if we draft another rb in april. 

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

I think people forget he just turned 21 years old in May...he is still young and learning things...the Bills defensive vets to a man believe he is a hall of fame caliber player so either we can believe their opinions or the opinions of some fat sportwswriter who probably never even played ? past pop warner or high school...

 

I think Edmunds has everything you want in an MLB in this scheme and its only a matter of time before he becomes a force to be reckoned with.

Whachoo got against fat guys??

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

A few voices in the wilderness last year that Edmunds' play was troubling.  They were met with a chorus that said he was young and instincts could more or less be learned from film study, game experience, et al.  

 

It's still early, but there are four players (Dawkins, Z. Jones, Edmunds, and Ford) Buffalo traded up for during the McBeane years who aren't improving.  

Ford isn’t improving? ?The kid has played a total of around 33 minutes of actual NFL game play (approx 11 mins, 3 games). You’re ready to call him a Bust & Fire McBeane?

 

Jesus H. Tough crowd.

[BillsVet]

8 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Ford isn’t improving? ?The kid has played a total of around 33 minutes of actual NFL game play (approx 11 mins, 3 games). You’re ready to call him a Bust & Fire McBeane?

 

Jesus H. Tough crowd.

 

Perhaps the wrong word to use was improving, but you're the one using the term "bust."  Point remains that they traded up in the second round a few slots for him to be an OT and he hasn't shown the footwork to handle speed on the outside. 

 

That's the concerning part.  You don't learn how to be faster out of your stance.  It's either there or it isn't. 

[DCOrange]

9 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

I don't disagree with a thing in that article.  Edmunds and Oliver have done very little.  So far. 

 

But I don't know how you can't acknowledge the overall numbers against 3 of the best backs in the league.  We did fine and thru 2 quarters we held a QB and an offende that was on fire for 2 games to less than 50 yards.  Someone's doing something right.   

 

We will see how they handle Chubb, Henry, Zeke, and Conner.   Edmunds and Oliver have to be better by the 2nd half of the season.  I think they will.  

 

This just isn't an accurate description of Cincinnati. They put up 20 and 17 points the first two weeks (and 7 of those was simply a duck that Dalton threw where the safety had an easy INT and mistimed the jump, allowing Ross to walk into the end zone instead) and put up 17 this week. After 429 yards of offense in week 1 (including the aforementioned duck), they followed it up with 316 yards last week; Buffalo allowed 306.

 

Cincinnati is a bad offensive team and while Buffalo's defense did a very good job in the first half, the 2nd half led to Cincinnati getting what will likely be their usual production.

 

I think Buffalo's defense is elite, but we've played probably 3 of the bottom 5-8 offensive teams in the league so far this year. New England is a gigantic step up, and I suspect it will be too much of a step up. Could obviously say the same about New England's defense as well (and their offense for that matter), but they've aced the eye test to this point whereas the Bills have been more of a B in that regard.

Edited September 24, 2019 by DCOrange

[PaattMaann]

12 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

In the context of the defense Edmunds is doing a good job imo.  He can cover and his ability to go sideline really prevents backs from getting to the edge.  This defense is all about every man playing their role.  I think there are a lot of defenses that you could drop Edmunds into and his stats would increase significantly.  He is doing exactly what he needs to in this defense.  Can anyone argue with the results?

 

in the second half of the Bengals game, YES! Which is what Sal is doing here....

 

I was in the stands and spent the entire 3rd quarter complaining about Edmunds getting HANDLED routinely...the biggest glare was him getting owned by the WR on the big game. 

 

Sal is right to point out Edmunds faults here, as the leader of the defense we need more out of him on a consistent basis. Thats not to say he hasnt had good games/moments, its pointing out that this super young and green LB has a long ways to go, and could be a potential liability sunday vs the patriots if they identify and exploit him.

 

It is OK to point out some negatives when they exist. I am happy as HELL to be 3-0 and am an eternal optimist, those of you who think this is anything other than a good reporting job are looking for smoke and fires where there arent any. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

The criticisms are well founded.  The Bills should have won this game easily and yet they were very close to losing it.  I will take w’s all the time but against a stronger team they  would have lost. 

 

Cincy, now 0-3 took Seattle, now 2-1 to the wire IIRC   Or at least made it a close game.  

Dalton is a good QB.  circumstances, situations and a clueless coach?  (as of now) 

[nedboy7]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I think this is the unique moment when almost everyone is correct.  The criticism is fair.  He is only 21.  He has made some plays but not as many as one typically sees from the MLB position.  At this point in his career he may be better suited for OLB - less need to diagnose plays and can just rush or drop in coverage.   Maybe he is better suited at OLB for his entire career.  Who knows.  

But at this point, barring injury you stay the course and let him learn MLB.  If he doesn't get better by year end then they face a difficult off-season decision to move him to OLB and draft a new MLB.  But for now, you just let him play and learn.

 

 

Get this rational ***** out of here!!!! 

Come back w some pure disdain.  For anyone!!

Edited September 24, 2019 by nedboy7

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

13 hours ago, MJS said:

"We all expected big strides from the 21-year-old in his second NFL season, but in these first three games, Edmunds has been a ghost. He has 19 tackles, only one for lost yardage, and two pass breakups."

 

That's a ghost? 5 tackles a game, pass breakups, and a tackle for loss?

 

 

 

Uh, yeah. Five tackles per game is extremely low for an MLB

[GG]

Realistically, Edmunds should be the Zo replacement next year.

[May Day 10]

I can't fault anyone for having these viewpoints at this time (nor can I fault anyone for being all-in excited).

 

 

The Bills have been here before in recent memory.  They have been knocked down, and have completely collapsed.  I realize the players, coaches, etc are different... but if you look at the games and competition so far, you can easily get to 'pump the brakes' territory.  Various warning signs and trends that you cannot get away with against the NE and KCs of the world.  While they were the better team in all 3 games so far, it isn't far fetched to say they could have found themselves 1-2 at this point with a little misfortune.

 

I guess I am kind of in between.  I don't think they are ready yet for the upper echelon teams... they are in the middle/upper-middle class.  However, the schedule looks very favorable and 10-12 games will be there for the taking.  Most likely would have an away game at Baltimore or maybe Houston, and both are winnable.  This type of season would be monumental for a young team with a young QB trying to figure out how to win.  Got some bucks next year to spend and we could find the Bills truly in the NFL top 5 teams for real.  

[Aussie Joe]

He says that Star’s contract “might be the worst deal on the team”..

 

Might?

 

Since Clay has been moved on there isn’t anyone else close..

[MDH]

I'll say this about the Jet sweep on the 3rd and 1 that nobody seems to be recognizing. Daboll was going for the home run, he wasn't just trying to pick up the 1st. The Bengals did an awesome job of not overreacting to the Gore fake up the middle because if their edge contain crashed hard to the middle McKenzie would have been off to the races down the sideline. This is the type of play that when it works fans are saying, "WHAT A CALL!" but when it fails they're scratching their heads wondering why they didn't just hand it up the middle and pick up easy first down.

[BillsVet]

17 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I can't fault anyone for having these viewpoints at this time (nor can I fault anyone for being all-in excited).

 

 

The Bills have been here before in recent memory.  They have been knocked down, and have completely collapsed.  I realize the players, coaches, etc are different... but if you look at the games and competition so far, you can easily get to 'pump the brakes' territory.  Various warning signs and trends that you cannot get away with against the NE and KCs of the world.  While they were the better team in all 3 games so far, it isn't far fetched to say they could have found themselves 1-2 at this point with a little misfortune.

 

I guess I am kind of in between.  I don't think they are ready yet for the upper echelon teams... they are in the middle/upper-middle class.  However, the schedule looks very favorable and 10-12 games will be there for the taking.  Most likely would have an away game at Baltimore or maybe Houston, and both are winnable.  This type of season would be monumental for a young team with a young QB trying to figure out how to win.  Got some bucks next year to spend and we could find the Bills truly in the NFL top 5 teams for real.  

 

A team can only cover up a major personnel weakness for so long.  In '11 it was an offense predicated on timed pass routes to minimize Fitz's weak arm.  As soon as NYJ took those routes away, the Chan had nothing really left.  Their 5-2 start evaporated into a 6-10 finish.  

 

This team is clearly better and the QB isn't physically limited. Agree that there are some troubling signs, mostly on offense where they've had some bad quarters in which they don't move the ball well. 

 

 

[May Day 10]

well, if they beat New England, you will have trouble tethering my head to this planet

[IDBillzFan]

12 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

It would be interesting to hear someone that really knows football to analyze his play. 

 

Good point. I appreciate Maiorana's writing, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear from someone who has vast, proven experience as an analytical writer who can truly evaluate MLB play.

 

Someone like, y'know, Jerry Sullivan.

[GG]

26 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Good point. I appreciate Maiorana's writing, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear from someone who has vast, proven experience as an analytical writer who can truly evaluate MLB play.

 

Someone like, y'know, Jerry Sullivan.

 

In fairness, this has been noted by many people.  He exhibits the polarity of over-aggressiveness and timidity in run support at the worst times.

[Nick the Greek]

I usually like Sal, but this is Schopp and Bulldog negativity. 3-0 and we still suck. BLAH BLAH BLAHHHHH. 

[ddaryl]

There are flaws in the team that will be exposed this weekend if we don't play a tighter clean game.

 

That being said why do people here suddenly expect a fully gutted team 2 seasons removed to have every single position filled by an All-Pro. We have youth at many key positions and getting better comes with playing time... 

 

We will need to see how they clean up the slop starting this weekend. I surely expect to see things improve as the year moves forward. I'm not going to be calling for peoples heads if improvement is happening. Right now we are 3-0... Sloppy but gutty wins.. Can't really complain to much.

 

I do not expect to win this weekend because of the sloppy play against an elite franchise.. I don't think we can clean it up enough yet. Hopefully they will play tough and make it a game. Hopefully they prove me wrong and win, but if I'm gambling I'm taking NE and giving the points

[SoTier]

8 minutes ago, Nick the Greek said:

I usually like Sal, but this is Schopp and Bulldog negativity. 3-0 and we still suck. BLAH BLAH BLAHHHHH. 

 

Right on, man!!!  How dare anybody criticize the Bills!  They're 3-0, and their play has been as perfect as their record.  The Pats are DOOMED!

 

//sarcasm off

 

 

[Nick the Greek]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Right on, man!!!  How dare anybody criticize the Bills!  They're 3-0, and their play has been as perfect as their record.  The Pats are DOOMED!

 

//sarcasm off

 

 

Correction.

 

You are the one that’s gloom and DOOM! 

[BillsVet]

7 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

There are flaws in the team that will be exposed this weekend if we don't play a tighter clean game.

 

That being said why do people here suddenly expect a fully gutted team 2 seasons removed to have every single position filled by an All-Pro. We have youth at many key positions and getting better comes with playing time... 

 

We will need to see how they clean up the slop starting this weekend. I surely expect to see things improve as the year moves forward. I'm not going to be calling for peoples heads if improvement is happening. Right now we are 3-0... Sloppy but gutty wins.. Can't really complain to much.

 

I do not expect to win this weekend because of the sloppy play against an elite franchise.. I don't think we can clean it up enough yet. Hopefully they will play tough and make it a game. Hopefully they prove me wrong and win, but if I'm gambling I'm taking NE and giving the points

 

It's dramatic to claim fans want an All-Pro at every position, but having a few definitely helps when a team needs to exploit a match-up disadvantage.

 

Still, while young at certain positions, this is a veteran team.  I think some people see a young QB and conclude based on the rebuilding their roster is inexperienced.  They're not.  Buffalo is tied for 24th in terms of oldest roster:

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2019-edition/

 

There's a lot of football left, but this Sunday they have an opportunity to show how far they've come. 

 

[oldmanfan]

I thought his column was reasonable enough.  Edmunds is a 21 year old still learning how to play the position.  He needs to read better and fight off blocks more in the run game, but I think he's better in pass protection than Sal is giving him credit for.  He'll continue to develop.  Will Belichick and Brady exploit his relative youth and inexperience Sunday?  Undoubtedly.  Will having the GOAT HC and QB put one over on you mean Edmunds is terrible?  Not unless that means every other MLB in the league is terrible when they play the Pats. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by oldmanfan

[ddaryl]

5 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's dramatic to claim fans want an All-Pro at every position, but having a few definitely helps when a team needs to exploit a match-up disadvantage.

 

Still, while young at certain positions, this is a veteran team.  I think some people see a young QB and conclude based on the rebuilding their roster is inexperienced.  They're not.  Buffalo is tied for 24th in terms of oldest roster:

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2019-edition/

 

There's a lot of football left, but this Sunday they have an opportunity to show how far they've come. 

 

 

 

There are definitely plenty of posters here already wanting to see Ford sit and ready to call him a disappointment… and there are growing numbers of people losing patience with Tremaine. So I think that's the dramatic portion of this show. Edwards is still very young and could still be playing college ball this year if he had chosen that route.

 

QB MLB RT DT are very key positions that most are talking about under performing...   So my general reference to youth could of been elaborated on. But I was kind of following the flow of the thread.

 

Allen can't miss plays and leave points on the board. Edwards needs to make more dynamic plays from the middle. I think Oliver is doing well, and from what I read Ford needs quicker feet...   If these 4 players all step up their game this week then we can surely win this game.... However I do feel that their is fleeting patience for this core starting to seep in and I feel its still to early for that level of criticism.