Week Two: Bills at Giants

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

I think I have a pretty good idea what his stripes are after 2 years.

 

Again maybe you're right and he just needed that talented QB/roster to make his process work in a non conservative fashion.

 

But usually the best way to predict someone's future actions is to look at what they've done in the past.
 

I really don't care so long as we win.  That's all that matters.

so what is your point exactly? you don't believe in McD? maybe I'm reading you wrong?

 

so who's the next bills HC on your radar? since you don't really believe in McD.

[reddogblitz]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

It is his first HC job at any level.  Don't you expect people to learn and develop?  Is Bill Belichick the same coach he was after his first two seasons?  Were any of the great ones?

 

Anyway, I'm not really "arguing" with you but this is a point of frustration with me that people think they "know" who McD is at this point in his HC career.

 

OK, you don't know, but I suspect I do.

 

We're 34 games in.

 

We'll see.

[DJB]

Sterling Shepard out! Not that they were going to throw it to anyone other than Barkley or Engram

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by DJB

[reddogblitz]

4 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

so what is your point exactly? you don't believe in McD? maybe I'm reading you wrong?

 

so who's the next bills HC on your radar? since you don't really believe in McD.

 

Please tell me where I said I didn't like him.  I do.  My point is he is (or has primarily been for 34 games) a conservative coach.  Nothing wrong with that as long as you win.

 

I believe in Coach McDermott's ability to build a team and motivate his players.  He has been able to coach us to wins that past Buffalo teams have figured out how to lose, like Sunday and the snow game for example.

 

But I don't expect him to become some super aggressive coach.   Just don't see it.  But time will tell.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

Please tell me where I said I didn't like him.  I do.  My point is he is (or has primarily been for 34 games) a conservative coach.  Nothing wrong with that as long as you win.

 

I believe in Coach McDermott's ability to build a team and motivate his players.  He has been able to coach us to wins that past Buffalo teams have figured out how to lose, like Sunday and the snow game for example.

 

But I don't expect him to become some super aggressive coach.   Just don't see it.  But time will tell.

exactly, time will tell.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I think I have a pretty good idea what his stripes are after 2 years.

 

Again maybe you're right and he just needed that talented QB/roster to make his process work in a non conservative fashion.

 

But usually the best way to predict someone's future actions is to look at what they've done in the past.
 

I really don't care so long as we win.  That's all that matters.

 

If the Pats took in that philosophy, they wouldn't have hired Belicheck in the first place.  There's others out there too...

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

 

[Protocal69]

Sterling Sherpard (Giants WR) ruled out

[wiskibreth]

Cody Latimer (calf) is questionable for Week 2 against the Bills

https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player-news

[Protocal69]

7 minutes ago, wiskibreth said:

Cody Latimer (calf) is questionable for Week 2 against the Bills

https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player-news

Wow. A Wr with a calf issue even if he does play is bad. Giants got nobody left at WR

[Warcodered]

 

Looks like Andre Roberts is out too.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[PaattMaann]

6 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

SCHOOLS OUT!!!!!!!

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

 

https://www.bigblueview.com/2019/9/13/20863175/giants-bills-perspectives-pat-shurmur-josh-allen-bulletin-board-material?utm_campaign=bigblueview&utm_content=entry&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

" Apparently the “chance to be a starter” line is what stood out the most among what was otherwise a heaping pile of praise Shurmur offered Allen. "

 

So this is what passes for a "heaping pile of praise" these days?  Shurmer: "I can comment on what we thought of him. We thought he was a big, strong thrower. A guy that had a chance to be a starter in the NFL, and he has been for them. I think he’s made steady improvements. He’s a very strong-armed guy. He’s helped them win some big games already. Just like any young player, you see where he’ll make mistakes and then correct them. "

Now as a player evaluation of a young QB, it's measured, and it's not unreasonable for Allen.  But a "heaping pile of praise" for a modern NFL QB, it is not. No way, no how, and in no form.

[BillsFan4]

7 hours ago, eball said:

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with this statement.  The Bills of 2017 and 2018 were ill-equipped offensively, and a game strategy of trying to stay close and win in the end made sense.  I don't think we've seen what sort of coach McD is when he has a balanced team with a legitimate passing attack.

 

Do you think it was "conservative" for McD to allow Daboll/Josh the latitude to call 17 straight passing plays to start last week's game?

 

What I hear from McD is that he is not afraid to continuously learn and adapt.  Just because his experience comes on the defensive side of the ball doesn't mean he is "conservative."  I think we'll see just what sort of a coach he is if the offense continues to improve.

There was a good article about this on WGR

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/mcdermott-didnt-blink

 

Quote

Yet, in their Week 1 victory on the road, Daboll had Josh Allen drop back to throw on the first 17-plays to open the game. Yeah, 17-straight plays to open the game – that’s a real thing, people.

 

If you’re a Twitter guy or gal during Bills games, you were likely amongst the crowd yelling at your television and anger-tweeting about why the Bills weren’t running the football. Me? I was loving every single second of it, because it’s not like the Bills were scoring points, in fact, they were turning the ball over at an unsustainable rate. Yet, they remained aggressive in their play calling.

 

Most coaches – in fact (definitely) Sean McDermott - will see those struggles and turnovers and immediately encourage his offensive coordinator run the football. You just can’t let your young quarterback flounder in a close game, right?

 

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

https://www.bigblueview.com/2019/9/13/20863175/giants-bills-perspectives-pat-shurmur-josh-allen-bulletin-board-material?utm_campaign=bigblueview&utm_content=entry&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

" Apparently the “chance to be a starter” line is what stood out the most among what was otherwise a heaping pile of praise Shurmur offered Allen. "

 

So this is what passes for a "heaping pile of praise" these days?  Shurmer: "I can comment on what we thought of him. We thought he was a big, strong thrower. A guy that had a chance to be a starter in the NFL, and he has been for them. I think he’s made steady improvements. He’s a very strong-armed guy. He’s helped them win some big games already. Just like any young player, you see where he’ll make mistakes and then correct them. "

Now as a player evaluation, it's measured, and it's not unreasonable.  But a "heaping pile of praise", it is not. 

 

Definitely not a "heaping pile of praise."  Also definitely FAR from bulletin board material.  I have no idea what people (some Bills fans) are up in arms about.

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

My favorite line from that Giants writeup is the last one:

 

'...but hey, if that’s what the Bills need to get themselves hyped up for a game as opposed to going 2-0 for the first time since the 2014 season, then good luck with that...'

 

as if a team that just got absolutely barnstormed in a divisional game last week should be offering advice on how to get 'hyped up' for a game lololol

 

Newsflash Giants: your team isn't very good. You have a generational RB and literally nothing else to be proud of. The Bills are better and deeper than every other position top to bottom on the roster except maybe Remmers at RT and tight end. You're going to be getting points pretty much every game of the season except home against the Redskins, just stfu and accept it

 

 

[Don Beebe]

4 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

I say the same thing.

 

Who gives a flying frack what Colin Coward says.

 

The next time I listen to that guy would be the first time I listen to that guy.

I am 70 years old. My bar fighting days were over years ago, so why do I want to kick Colin's a$$?

[Golden*Wheels]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

Looks like Andre Roberts is out too.

Dang again? I want to see a nice kick return!

[Deranged Rhino]

Is it Sunday yet? 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Please tell me where I said I didn't like him.  I do.  My point is he is (or has primarily been for 34 games) a conservative coach.  Nothing wrong with that as long as you win.

 

I believe in Coach McDermott's ability to build a team and motivate his players.  He has been able to coach us to wins that past Buffalo teams have figured out how to lose, like Sunday and the snow game for example.

 

But I don't expect him to become some super aggressive coach.   Just don't see it.  But time will tell.

 

Do you not think that he's conservative because he had garbage for talent for two seasons?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Protocal69 said:

Wow. A Wr with a calf issue even if he does play is bad. Giants got nobody left at WR

 

Yep...if there is any strain or pull...the calf is probably the worst muscle to do that to.

[MAJBobby]

If the Bills really are a playoff team the Bills should win this game going away. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

46 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Definitely not a "heaping pile of praise."  Also definitely FAR from bulletin board material.  I have no idea what people (some Bills fans) are up in arms about.

 

It has to do with this kind of draft grading system (this is from nfl.com, but most sites have similar - scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the grading system). 

 

"Chance to become an NFL starter" is the 7th ranking, and the 4th or so of what is commonly seen.  So whereas Sam Darnold was graded 7.00, "Pro bowl caliber player" and QB Rosen and Mayfield were graded 6.19 and 6.02 respectively,  "should become instant starter", Josh Allen was given a grade for players more commonly seen in players drafted in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, maaaaaaaayyyybe late in the 1st to preserve the option year (as the Ravens did with Lamar Jackson)

 

Normally, once a player has NFL playing time under his belt, the conversation shifts to what he's done in the league.  Also, calling a QB a "big strong thrower" and "strong armed guy" is pretty much seen as a diss.  As Zierlein said, " (Allen's) ability to improve the mental part of his game will determine whether he's a good NFL starter or just another big, strong-armed guy."

 

So Shurmur is seen as saying "We saw him and still see him as a 2nd or 3rd round guy with a chance to play in the league"  instead of saying something diplomatic like "I'd rather talk about how he's played in the league - He's won some games for them.  He's shown improvement in his decision making.  Like most young players, he makes mistakes but he corrects them.  He's a tough competitor.  And of course, he's got that athletic ability, both the strong arm and the ability to run."

That's why it's seen as bulletin board material - 1) it seems to be discounting his league play to reiterate his draft profile 2) it's calling the Bills starting QB essentially a developmental guy who should have been drafted much later than he was

 

 

 

 

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It has to do with this kind of draft grading system (this is from nfl.com, but most sites have similar - scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the grading system). 

 

"Chance to become an NFL starter" is the 7th ranking, and the 4th or so of what is commonly seen.  So whereas Sam Darnold was graded 7.00, "Pro bowl caliber player" and QB Rosen and Mayfield were graded 6.19 and 6.02 respectively,  "should become instant starter", Josh Allen was given a grade for players more commonly seen in players drafted in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, maaaaaaaayyyybe late in the 1st to preserve the option year (as the Ravens did with Lamar Jackson)

 

Normally, once a player has NFL playing time under his belt, the conversation shifts to what he's done in the league.  Also, calling a QB a "big strong thrower" and "strong armed guy" is pretty much seen as a diss.  As Zierlein said, " (Allen's) ability to improve the mental part of his game will determine whether he's a good NFL starter or just another big, strong-armed guy."

 

So Shurmur is seen as saying "We saw him and still see him as a 2nd or 3rd round guy with a chance to play in the league"  instead of saying something diplomatic like "I'd rather talk about how he's played in the league - He's won some games for them.  He's shown improvement in his decision making.  Like most young players, he makes mistakes but he corrects them.  He's a tough competitor.  And of course, he's got that athletic ability, both the strong arm and the ability to run."

That's why it's seen as bulletin board material - 1) it seems to be discounting his league play to reiterate his draft profile 2) it's calling the Bills starting QB essentially a developmental guy who should have been drafted much later than he was

 

 

 

 

 

Wow.  Thanks for that explanation.  I take back what I said about this being bulletin board material.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Do you not think that he's conservative because he had garbage for talent for two seasons?

 

McDermott's qualities as a coach are one of the puzzling open questions for the Bills ultimate success.

 

There have been times when it seems as though he coaches our team to play above their abilities, as in 2017 when we broke the drought and when we contained Fournette in the playoff game.  If we'd had just a few more hosspower on offense, it seems as though we would have done it. 

 

There have been times when it seems like he's playing checkers against chessmasters, and the Bills get totally totally blown out.    Then the question becomes, is that because the Bills have, as you say, "garbage for talent" and no one could devise a game plan where we'd match up?  Or is it because of poor game plan strategy?  Or is it a combination?

 

I tend to think McDermott is a conservative coach, perhaps an overly conservative coach.  But I also think he's a guy who is dedicated to improvement and to learning from mistakes.  It's one of those things time will tell.

[Bob in STL]

On 9/9/2019 at 6:25 PM, SCBills said:

Will be interested to see our OL with a game under their belt together. 

 

More Singletary.  

 

Does Kroft play?

 

Do we see more of the deep ball?  

 

Andre Roberts availability?  Would be nice to get some stops deep in Giants territory and give him a couple shots at returns. 

Yes indeed.  

 

I want ant to see the OL take a positive step.  The Jets DL and LBs were a tough match.  More Singletary for sure.  That should bring a safety up and help set up the deep ball.  

[RochesterLifer]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

McDermott's qualities as a coach are one of the puzzling open questions for the Bills ultimate success.

 

There have been times when it seems as though he coaches our team to play above their abilities, as in 2017 when we broke the drought and when we contained Fournette in the playoff game.  If we'd had just a few more hosspower on offense, it seems as though we would have done it. 

 

There have been times when it seems like he's playing checkers against chessmasters, and the Bills get totally totally blown out.    Then the question becomes, is that because the Bills have, as you say, "garbage for talent" and no one could devise a game plan where we'd match up?  Or is it because of poor game plan strategy?  Or is it a combination?

 

I tend to think McDermott is a conservative coach, perhaps an overly conservative coach.  But I also think he's a guy who is dedicated to improvement and to learning from mistakes.  It's one of those things time will tell.

I think you're living in the past. They HAD garbage for talent:

- 2017 We were projected to tank. We went to the playoffs.

- 2018 We fielded a team using ~65% of a salary cap, finishing 6-10.

 

This year, we are fielding a full team, with a project QB beginning to develop. McDermott has overachieved so far and can be held to a higher level of accountability beginning now. Um, in my humble opinion. 

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Do you not think that he's conservative because he had garbage for talent for two seasons?

 

No.

[DuckyBoys]

McDermott is the best coach we've had in a long time.  Guy was a miracle worker in 2017 and last year given what he had to work with I would call a big success.  I think we'll see him be able to dictate what he wants to do as the talent keeps improving vs just trying to survive with strategy

[twist_to_open]

The injury report from Pro Football Talk posted Friday evening, not looking good for Giants WR corps.

Bills at Giants

The Bills ruled out CB Taron Johnson (hamstring) and WR Andre Roberts (quadricep) for their second straight game at MetLife Stadium. TE Tyler Kroft (foot) is considered doubtful to play.

WR Sterling Shepard (concussion), TE Garrett Dickerson (quad) and WR Darius Slayton (hamstring) are out for the Giants. WR Cody Latimer (calf) is questionable, so the Giants may be awfully thin at wideout this weekend.

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

McDermott's qualities as a coach are one of the puzzling open questions for the Bills ultimate success.

 

There have been times when it seems as though he coaches our team to play above their abilities, as in 2017 when we broke the drought and when we contained Fournette in the playoff game.  If we'd had just a few more hosspower on offense, it seems as though we would have done it. 

 

There have been times when it seems like he's playing checkers against chessmasters, and the Bills get totally totally blown out.    Then the question becomes, is that because the Bills have, as you say, "garbage for talent" and no one could devise a game plan where we'd match up?  Or is it because of poor game plan strategy?  Or is it a combination?

 

I tend to think McDermott is a conservative coach, perhaps an overly conservative coach.  But I also think he's a guy who is dedicated to improvement and to learning from mistakes.  It's one of those things time will tell.

Very well said. The one thing I know about McDermott is that he CAN make chicken salad out of chicken....droppings. I think he's already proven to be an adequate coach. Certain conservative traits create skepticism as to whether or not he can be a well above average or even great coach. Certain TRENDS create some optimism that he has what it takes to reach the next level; mainly (for me anyways), his team's collective performance in late game situations. They never seem rattled and I'm SOMEWHAT less likely to expect catastrophe. I feel like in some ways I know what to expect from him, but no idea in other respects. Puzzling is a good word. 

[Dr. Who]

24 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Very well said. The one thing I know about McDermott is that he CAN make chicken salad out of chicken....droppings. I think he's already proven to be an adequate coach. Certain conservative traits create skepticism as to whether or not he can be a well above average or even great coach. Certain TRENDS create some optimism that he has what it takes to reach the next level; mainly (for me anyways), his team's collective performance in late game situations. They never seem rattled and I'm SOMEWHAT less likely to expect catastrophe. I feel like in some ways I know what to expect from him, but no idea in other respects. Puzzling is a good word. 

If Allen is a franchise qb, he's got enough to end up a good to great coach, because he's got the D side covered.

[brianb386]

I think Allen gets his first 300+ yard day this Sunday.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, brianb386 said:

I think Allen gets his first 300+ yard day this Sunday.

 

That might not be a good thing if it happens......often when QB have unusually high passing yards, it means they’re struggling to bring their team back from a deep hole.

I’d prefer Allen to have 178 passing yards and the Bills to take a 21-3 lead into the 4th quarter ....and keep it

[Dr. Who]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That might not be a good thing if it happens......often when QB have unusually high passing yards, it means they’re struggling to bring their team back from a deep hole.

I’d prefer Allen to have 178 passing yards and the Bills to take a 21-3 lead into the 4th quarter ....and keep it

Or maybe Allen has 350 yards, 5 TDs and we're up 42 - 10. Dream big, fella.

[PetermansRedemption]

Man I really want Andre Roberts to get healthy soon. So disappointing he hasn’t been able to play in two games. Been so long since the Bills has a true game breaking return man.