Pro Football Network: Bills one of teams in on Clowney trade

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Off the top of my head:

Reggie Bush

Marques Colston

Rod Woodson

Vontaze Burfict

Travis Kecle

Dan Marino

Melvin Gordon

How large would your list be if the question was how many players who had this particular surgery never returned to their original form?

[BuffaloBaumer]

Bills can't do this deal, there is no reason for such a huge contract when you already have a great TEAM defense. Stay the course!

[Just Joshin']

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I'm not completely sure about that.  The CBA appears to be "gray" on that point.  In my reading the July 15 clause pertains only to the relationship between the player and the "original" club - meaning that the player can't sign anything other than the franchise tender with the franchising club beyond July 15.  If, however, the player lands on another roster, then it doesn't look like the prohibition against an extension, etc., would apply to the player's relationship with his new club.  Maybe it's been arbitrated and a result contrary to my interpretation was reached - I don't have enough concern to look it up.  But I'm not convinced that Clowney couldn't sign long-term with a team other than the Texans to the extent he is traded while on his franchise tender. 

 

EDIT:  There also could be language elsewhere in the CBA pertinent to this point.  I read one paragraph somewhere b/w pages 44 and 51.  So to get a clear answer on this somebody would have to read the entire CBA (I assume there's an integration clause in the compact) and check any arbitration decisions on the topic. 

You seem to be the only person with this opinion.  I am not referencing folks on this site but experts who cover the NFL.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I'm not completely sure about that.  The CBA appears to be "gray" on that point.  In my reading the July 15 clause pertains only to the relationship between the player and the "original" club - meaning that the player can't sign anything other than the franchise tender with the franchising club beyond July 15.  If, however, the player lands on another roster, then it doesn't look like the prohibition against an extension, etc., would apply to the player's relationship with his new club.  Maybe it's been arbitrated and a result contrary to my interpretation was reached - I don't have enough concern to look it up.  But I'm not convinced that Clowney couldn't sign long-term with a team other than the Texans to the extent he is traded while on his franchise tender. 

 

EDIT:  There also could be language elsewhere in the CBA pertinent to this point.  I read one paragraph somewhere b/w pages 44 and 51.  So to get a clear answer on this somebody would have to read the entire CBA (I assume there's an integration clause in the compact) and check any arbitration decisions on the topic. 

 

From CBS Sportsline on trading Clowney:

 

The CBA prohibits any discussion about a new contract or even agreement in principle and impacts both the agent and the team with potential fines/loss of draft picks. See Below:

 

The Bills do have one advantage in Gaines that already negotiated an extension as GM of the Texans that was blocked by O’Brien.  So the Bills already know what parameters the Clowney camp is looking for.

 

 

 

Trade difficulties

Rumors of the Texans trading Clowney began gaining traction last week. A Clowney trade is easier said than done.

Several factors complicate a trade. Since players with unsigned tenders can't be traded until under contract, Clowney essentially has veto power on being dealt. The multi-year contract restriction also applies to any team acquiring Clowney in a trade.

The inability to sign Clowney long-term in conjunction with a trade should limit the draft choice compensation the Texans can get in return. Under ordinary circumstances, the Texans would likely able to get something between the second round pick the 49ersgave the Chiefs for Ford and the first round pick the Seahawks received from the Chiefs to get Clark.

If trade talks become serious, Clowney should make it abundantly clear he won't exercise his de facto no trade clause provided the one year contract he signs has language preventing him from being designated as a franchise or transition player in 2020. Insistence on this clause would be an additional complication.

A team must have enough salary cap room to absorb Clowney's current franchise tender of $15,967,200 in order to trade for him. Just over half of the NFL's 32 teams have enough cap space to fit in Clowney's franchise tender. Practically speaking, the number is less because of the change of salary cap accounting on September 5 when all players under contract start counting instead of the top 51 players. $2 million to $4 million of cap room is routinely lost with the change, which teams are already factoring into their cap management.

 

 

 

To make matters worse, the CBA also expressly prohibits any discussions about a new contract or any type of agreement in principle now that would go into effect after the regular season ends. The penalties would be an effective deterrent from violating the rules. Clowney and his agents, Bus Cook and Donald Weatherell, would be subject to a fine up to $500,000. Commissioner Roger Goodell could impose a fine for as much as $6.5 million on the team where up to two first round picks could also be forfeited. The team employees involved could be facing a year suspension and would have the same financial exposure as Clowney and his agents.

[H2o]

Have we found out what number Clowney will be wearing in Buffalo yet?

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, H2o said:

Have we found out what number Clowney will be wearing in Buffalo yet?

Or Miami ... or Seattle.. or Philly. Those are the 4 reported teams on trade talks.

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Or Miami ... or Seattle.. or Philly. Those are the 4 reported teams on trade talks.

Seattle gets rid of Frank Clark, but is gong to trade for Clowney? That seems like hustlin backwards to me. They need to be trying to trade for Trent Williams. 

Philly? Eh, maybe. 

Miami? I don't think anyone wants to go there right now. 

[RiotAct]

6 minutes ago, H2o said:

Have we found out what number Clowney will be wearing in Buffalo yet?

69

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Here's what I believe: he has a better chance of enhancing his value playing with a contending team with a defense his presence would make elite, than some pastel vacation destination. Maybe he stays or maybe not. As long as we don't trade the farm for him, I'm good. But if he wants to play elite defense, have a decent shot at the playoffs and maximize his free agent value, Buffalo is that team.

The person I was quoting wasn’t quite as clear minded. 

 

Define the farm? Starting tackle?

26 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

 

Just kidding

 

You should be kicked to the curb.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Cripple Creek

[Just Joshin']

Seems like this topic has run its course.......

[Kirby Jackson]

Been a while since these have been on here:

 

 

[apuszczalowski]

5 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

Seems like this topic has run its course.......

Well in a few hours the "24-48 hour" prediction will be up.......

 

As for the fake tweet, the only reason I knew it was fake was because of the inclusion of Singletarry. I could see Dawkins and a conditional pick (probably also see a conditional pick coming back to Buffalo) and a RB like Yeldon as being a deal for Clowney

[SectionC3]

32 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

From CBS Sportsline on trading Clowney:

 

The CBA prohibits any discussion about a new contract or even agreement in principle and impacts both the agent and the team with potential fines/loss of draft picks. See Below:

 

The Bills do have one advantage in Gaines that already negotiated an extension as GM of the Texans that was blocked by O’Brien.  So the Bills already know what parameters the Clowney camp is looking for.

 

 

 

Trade difficulties

Rumors of the Texans trading Clowney began gaining traction last week. A Clowney trade is easier said than done.

Several factors complicate a trade. Since players with unsigned tenders can't be traded until under contract, Clowney essentially has veto power on being dealt. The multi-year contract restriction also applies to any team acquiring Clowney in a trade.

The inability to sign Clowney long-term in conjunction with a trade should limit the draft choice compensation the Texans can get in return. Under ordinary circumstances, the Texans would likely able to get something between the second round pick the 49ersgave the Chiefs for Ford and the first round pick the Seahawks received from the Chiefs to get Clark.

If trade talks become serious, Clowney should make it abundantly clear he won't exercise his de facto no trade clause provided the one year contract he signs has language preventing him from being designated as a franchise or transition player in 2020. Insistence on this clause would be an additional complication.

A team must have enough salary cap room to absorb Clowney's current franchise tender of $15,967,200 in order to trade for him. Just over half of the NFL's 32 teams have enough cap space to fit in Clowney's franchise tender. Practically speaking, the number is less because of the change of salary cap accounting on September 5 when all players under contract start counting instead of the top 51 players. $2 million to $4 million of cap room is routinely lost with the change, which teams are already factoring into their cap management.

 

 

 

To make matters worse, the CBA also expressly prohibits any discussions about a new contract or any type of agreement in principle now that would go into effect after the regular season ends. The penalties would be an effective deterrent from violating the rules. Clowney and his agents, Bus Cook and Donald Weatherell, would be subject to a fine up to $500,000. Commissioner Roger Goodell could impose a fine for as much as $6.5 million on the team where up to two first round picks could also be forfeited. The team employees involved could be facing a year suspension and would have the same financial exposure as Clowney and his agents.

Probably written by a sports journalist, not a lawyer.  To be taken with a grain of salt. 

 

Read the first sentence in this clause.  I'm not saying it's dispositive, just "gray" - it looks to me like the prohibition against post-July 15 extensions could apply only to the franchising team.  What makes it "gray" is the last clause of the paragraph.  The question is whether the first clause (or anything else in the CBA, which I haven't bothered to and won't read) changes the interpretation of this language.  

 

With respect to your underlined language, Clowney isn't under contract and therefore is free to negotiate as he sees fit.  Not sure how the penalty language would apply to a team to which he is traded if the conversations occur prior to the signing of the franchise tender.  

 

***

 

Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 15 of the League Year (or, if July 15 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be extended until after the Club’s last regular season game of that League Year.

[whatdrought]

8 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

Seems like this topic has run its course.......

 

Seems like we have to at least get past the 4:45 time range that Lombardi referenced. That being said, there seems a wide consensus that he will be traded, and until he's traded somewhere that isn't buffalo, ya never know. 

[H2o]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Been a while since these have been on here:

 

 

Still love watching this one every now and again

 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

Seems like this topic has run its course.......

 

 

Barring someone stepping up and becoming a pass rushing force for the Bills the Clowney discussion is likely to continue until he signs a long term contract next spring.

 

I get that some hopeless click-aholics can't even function amidst ongoing speculation but that's not actually an everyone problem........it probably just feels like it to them.     

[Charles Romes]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Been a while since these have been on here:

 

 

 

These HS videos are hilarious. Did any of these HS opposing coaches facing Clowney consider a double team.   He was only like a foot taller than anyone else.  

[JXCOL3]

My life the last 24hrs.

[dezertbill]

John McClain of the Houston Chronicle believes a trade is already in place.  What's holding it up is whether Clowney comes in and signs his offer sheet.

 

He believes it's for a LT.  Possibly Williams w/ the Redskins?

 

"I think coach Bill O’Brien, the de facto general manager, has a deal worked out with another team, but he can’t complete the trade until Clowney is under contract. He’s due to make $15.97 million this season after he signs the tender.

 

“Until he decides to come in and sign his tender, the ball’s in his court relative to playing for the Texans,” O’Brien said after Saturday’s loss. “Until he signs the tender, there’s not much to talk about. I don’t have any idea of a specific date that he’ll decide if he wants to be here"

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/mcclain/article/Jadeveon-Clowney-on-his-way-out-of-town-14376454.php

 

OR....

 

Would Beane trade Dawkins for Clowney, then turn around and swing a trade for Trent Williams??

 

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by dezertbill

[Kirby Jackson]

25 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

 

These HS videos are hilarious. Did any of these HS opposing coaches facing Clowney consider a double team.   He was only like a foot taller than anyone else.  

Yeah, I remember when he was being recruited these videos were floating out there and just absurd. He looks like Andy Reid at the punt, pass and kick competition 

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, dezertbill said:

John McClain of the Houston Chronicle believes a trade is already in place.  What's holding it up is whether Clowney comes in and signs his offer sheet.

 

He believes it's for a LT.  Possibly Williams w/ the Redskins?

 

"I think coach Bill O’Brien, the de facto general manager, has a deal worked out with another team, but he can’t complete the trade until Clowney is under contract. He’s due to make $15.97 million this season after he signs the tender.

 

“Until he decides to come in and sign his tender, the ball’s in his court relative to playing for the Texans,” O’Brien said after Saturday’s loss. “Until he signs the tender, there’s not much to talk about. I don’t have any idea of a specific date that he’ll decide if he wants to be here"

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/mcclain/article/Jadeveon-Clowney-on-his-way-out-of-town-14376454.php

 

OR....

 

Would Beane trade Dawkins for Clowney, then turn around and swing a trade for Trent Williams??

 

 

If he trades Dawkins Nweke (spelling??) goes to LT and Ford to RT.

[whatdrought]

59 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Been a while since these have been on here:

 

 

 

Freak's of Nature check under their bed for this guy... 

[JoPar_v2]

I mean, Trent Williams for Clowney seems to make almost too much sense. Williams is adamant about never ever returning to that viper pit in Washington and Snyder’s stupid enough to make a trade for a guy with no guarantee he’ll resign after this year.

Edited August 26, 2019 by JoPar_v2

[Rochesterfan]

56 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Probably written by a sports journalist, not a lawyer.  To be taken with a grain of salt. 

 

Read the first sentence in this clause.  I'm not saying it's dispositive, just "gray" - it looks to me like the prohibition against post-July 15 extensions could apply only to the franchising team.  What makes it "gray" is the last clause of the paragraph.  The question is whether the first clause (or anything else in the CBA, which I haven't bothered to and won't read) changes the interpretation of this language.  

 

With respect to your underlined language, Clowney isn't under contract and therefore is free to negotiate as he sees fit.  Not sure how the penalty language would apply to a team to which he is traded if the conversations occur prior to the signing of the franchise tender.  

 

***

 

Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 15 of the League Year (or, if July 15 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be extended until after the Club’s last regular season game of that League Year.

 

 

Whatever - you read it how you want - the same thing as CBS is being reported everywhere and you are alone standing out their with your opinion.

 

You understand that places like CBS, ESPN etc - have actual lawyers versed in the CBA and understanding this.  

 

You also realize this this was discussed with the same issues every year when a player passes the July deadline and it is always reported that after that date no financial contract can be discussed even after a trade, but you know best.  For example - Bell last year.

[ComradeKayAdams]

1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said:

I mean, Trent Williams for Clowney seems to make almost too much sense. Williams is adamant about never ever returning to that viper pit in Washington and Snyder’s stupid enough to make a trade for a guy will no guarantee he’ll resign after this year.

 

Clowney probably doesn't want to play for the Skins because they aren't expected to be remotely competitive this year. Maybe a 3-way trade between the Bills, Texans, and Skins is possible? Does Washington have a burning desire for Zay Jones, perhaps???!!!

[JoPar_v2]

1 minute ago, KayAdams said:

 

Clowney probably doesn't want to play for the Skins because they aren't expected to be remotely competitive this year. Maybe a 3-way trade between the Bills, Texans, and Skins is possible? Does Washington have a burning desire for Zay Jones, perhaps???!!!

 

I don’t think any team has assigned any trade value to Jones, and I like Zay a lot. 

 

And I don’t think any current player wants to play for Washington, Clowney included, but he wouldn’t have a choice (unless he decides to just sit out forever and not sign the franchise tag tender.)

[BUFFALOTONE]

I may be on the minority but I am not a fan of Dawkins, seems soft and inconsistent. Watching him in preseason has been a total let down considering the upgrades we made to the OL. Any deal that moves Dawkins on to another team I am fully in support of. 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

I may be on the minority but I am not a fan of Dawkins, seems soft and inconsistent. Watching him in preseason has been a total let down considering the upgrades we made to the OL. Any deal that moves Dawkins on to another team I am fully in support of. 

Yeah, he doesn't really impress me.

[SectionC3]

27 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Whatever - you read it how you want - the same thing as CBS is being reported everywhere and you are alone standing out their with your opinion.

 

You understand that places like CBS, ESPN etc - have actual lawyers versed in the CBA and understanding this.  

 

You also realize this this was discussed with the same issues every year when a player passes the July deadline and it is always reported that after that date no financial contract can be discussed even after a trade, but you know best.  For example - Bell last year.

 

 

Sure those outlets have lawyers.  But did they contribute to the story?  And, for what it's worth, you still haven't contradicted my point about the ambiguity of the clause. 

 

Finally - maybe, just maybe, it would behoove players to get sharp lawyers for agents as opposed to the knuckleheads a lot of them tend to hire.  Drew Rosenhaus might seem like a putz, but look at what he did for Antonio Brown on the helmet issue.  He thought of things that nobody else bothered to explore under the CBA, and he kept the issue alive for his client for a lot longer than most would have expected. 

 

[CaptnCoke11]

Board meltdown when Clowney traded to a team other than Buffalo 

[SectionC3]

32 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Whatever - you read it how you want - the same thing as CBS is being reported everywhere and you are alone standing out their with your opinion.

 

You understand that places like CBS, ESPN etc - have actual lawyers versed in the CBA and understanding this.  

 

You also realize this this was discussed with the same issues every year when a player passes the July deadline and it is always reported that after that date no financial contract can be discussed even after a trade, but you know best.  For example - Bell last year.

 

For what it's worth, the league would have a better argument if the clause read something like "Any player who is designated a Franchise Player shall have until 12:00 p.m. on July 15 to sign a multiyear contract . . . ."  The fact that it doesn't read that way supports the idea that the clause is meant to apply to the franchising team, not to the player.  

[Cornette's Commentary]

24 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Yeah, he doesn't really impress me.

Which offensive lineman does impress you?

[Rochesterfan]

5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

 

Sure those outlets have lawyers.  But did they contribute to the story?  And, for what it's worth, you still haven't contradicted my point about the ambiguity of the clause. 

 

Finally - maybe, just maybe, it would behoove players to get sharp lawyers for agents as opposed to the knuckleheads a lot of them tend to hire.  Drew Rosenhaus might seem like a putz, but look at what he did for Antonio Brown on the helmet issue.  He thought of things that nobody else bothered to explore under the CBA, and he kept the issue alive for his client for a lot longer than most would have expected. 

 

 

 

I have already contradicted with actual reported info - on the other hand you have only given your opinion that differs from everyone else.  Show me a case that went you way and I will believe it.  Up until now it has not happened and has been reported by multiple outlets that it can’t happen per the CBA.

 

Yeah a sharp lawyer that lost 2 appeals that were found baseless and his client had to go back and do exactly what the league and NFLPA agreed to.  Plus it made his client look like a whining idiot and forced the GM to demand he return an lo and behold - AB backs down totally like a baby.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Rochesterfan

[JoPar_v2]

28 minutes ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

I may be on the minority but I am not a fan of Dawkins, seems soft and inconsistent. Watching him in preseason has been a total let down considering the upgrades we made to the OL. Any deal that moves Dawkins on to another team I am fully in support of. 

 

That’s fair I guess, but I hope you are taking into account the tremendous downgrade at LG last season compared to who he was playing next to his rookie year.

[Logic]

The only two reputable, reliable sources to speak on this rumor so far have both stated that they move isn't likely. 

The only people keeping this rumor alive are bored Bills fans. It ain't happening.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Yeah, he doesn't really impress me.

 

Ya I notice it even last year for him. Was giving him the benefit of the doubt for better O-Line. People really over rate him.

[Cornette's Commentary]

Just now, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Ya I notice it even last year for him. Was giving him the benefit of the doubt for better O-Line. People really over rate him.

So, what should Beane and McDermott do?  Move Dawkins to LG, move Nsekhe to LT, and move Ford to RT?

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Which offensive lineman does impress you?

 

They have have there strength and weakness. But with a better O-Line still doubts me. Spain great run blocker awful in pass. People under value him. But Dawkins people really over rate him.

Just now, Cornette's Commentary said:

So, what should Beane and McDermott do?  Move Dawkins to LG, move Nsekhe to LT, and move Ford to RT?

 

Not much you can do. At this point. But if Texans asking for Dawkins for a good player you take it. But no need to make make something less than worth it. It's a reason why Gm and coach do this. I wouldn't complain if they do if they don't.. If there thinking trade. Just a opinion. 

[Just Joshin']

10 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

 

Sure those outlets have lawyers.  But did they contribute to the story?  And, for what it's worth, you still haven't contradicted my point about the ambiguity of the clause. 

 

Finally - maybe, just maybe, it would behoove players to get sharp lawyers for agents as opposed to the knuckleheads a lot of them tend to hire.  Drew Rosenhaus might seem like a putz, but look at what he did for Antonio Brown on the helmet issue.  He thought of things that nobody else bothered to explore under the CBA, and he kept the issue alive for his client for a lot longer than most would have expected. 

 

Does AB have his old helmet - nope.  An agent can create what ever set of facts he/she wants but that does not mean they will prevail.  Clowney  can not sign and is not disputed by either side based on the CBA. If even remotely possible, it would have been pursued by now.

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

So, what should Beane and McDermott do?  Move Dawkins to LG, move Nsekhe to LT, and move Ford to RT?

Its too late for multiple moves

 

We have enough LG's now that have been getting reps at LG

Nsekhe to LT where he has played before

Ford has been playing RT.....no need to move him

Dawkins and Shady traded for 1 year of Clowney