Receiver competition with two games left

[NewEra]

36 minutes ago, mrags said:

He had a vet day off. He’s been more than fine with Allen all summer. 

If we keep Dimarco over Wade, Gore, McClpud, McKenzie, Williams, Yarborough, and a half a dozen others... I will vomit 

I’d take dimarco over Ray Ray every day of the week.  Ray Ray has done absolutely zippo minus a couple mcdermott comments 

[MAJBobby]

16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’d take dimarco over Ray Ray every day of the week.  Ray Ray has done absolutely zippo minus a couple mcdermott comments 

 

Devils Advocate is what has DiMarco ever done besides be talked up about ST?

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Devils Advocate is what has DiMarco ever done besides be talked up about ST?

Well first of all, he plays all four special teams units. A player that plays all four special teams units is more valuable than a back-end receiver who doesn't really contribute on special teams. So even if special teams were ALL that Dimarco did, he would be worth keeping over a non-ST contributing depth receiver.

But it's NOT all he does. He plays about 20-30% of the offensive snaps. Daboll's offensive playbook is extremely similar to New England's. It features a fullback. In the NFL, your offensive system either features a fullback or it doesn't. Daboll's does. You could employ a back-end-of-the-roster TE as a fullback, but he probably wouldn't be any good at it.

Unless and until the Bills change offensive coordinators and offensive playbooks, you can count on them continuing to employ and use a traditional fullback.

[FlaFitz1]

1 hour ago, Best Player Available said:

Jones is not a go to player. When Allen does go to him.He drops it.

Except late in garbage time against the pats***. 

 

Jones was targeted 102 times last season and had 2 drops

Foster was targeted 44 times and had 2 drops

Beasley was targeted 87 times by Dallas last year and had 2 drops

Brown was targeted 97 times in Baltimore and dropped 6

McKenzie saw 30 targets with 1 drop

Roberts targeted 18 times dropped 1

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, FlaFitz1 said:

 

Jones was targeted 102 times last season and had 2 drops

Foster was targeted 44 times and had 2 drops

Beasley was targeted 87 times by Dallas last year and had 2 drops

Brown was targeted 97 times in Baltimore and dropped 6

McKenzie saw 30 targets with 1 drop

Roberts targeted 18 times dropped 1

 

I don't believe that is correct. Jones had more drops than just 2. Where in the world did you get that?

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Yeldon is toast.

 

I sure hope they keep Wade on the 53. I think there is a reasonably good chance (50/50) Gore is cut or McCoy is traded or possibly cut. 

 

Where exactly has John Brown been? I believe he has two targets and 1 catch in two pre-season games with a goose egg in the last game. I'm sure his spot is safe, but he has seen very little action. I didn't think it was possible at first but I just don't see the value in keeping Zay Jones. He's being consistently outplayed or at least matched by guys drafted much lower than him. If he were not a high draft pick it wouldn't even be a debate about whether he would be cut or not. Maybe they try work a trade for him as it is likely another team could see value in him still and think they can get more out of him. Maybe Washington or the New York Giants? Send Washington Zay and a 2nd rounder for Trent Williams?

I don’t think that Yeldon is out of it.  He is a proven NFL performer and I thought that he ran well this week against the Panthers.  He is a good receiver out of the backfield as well.  I’m not saying that he is a lock to make it, but I don’t think he is out of the competition yet.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

With Tyree Jackson on the field it is impossible to judge any WR playing in the 2nd half,something needs to change here

Can the Bills claim a hardship exception and force him back to UB?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, RochesterLifer said:

I disagree. I understand this is not a popular thought, but I believe DiMarco is in at fullback. Short yardage situations and getting seven in the red zone are critical. Shady's two yard TD run against Carolina was not an exciting highlight, because it looked so routine. Shady got to the end zone (I believe) untouched. If you look at when he crossed, you'll see DiMarco sealing the right side of the hole, taking out a linebacker. That's the difference between 7 and 3. Not sexy, just winning football.

 

He plays special teams as well. Core teams players have more value than 6th wide receivers who don't play... 

[ProcessAccepted]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Does he have an injury or veteran rest day?

 

I'm just curious about Brown. Not having access to the practices, I haven't really seen him contribute and don't know what kind of connection him and Allen will have.

Here you go with a couple of examples. It'll be alright

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-josh-allen-to-john-brown-touchdown

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-allen-to-brown

 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Does he have an injury or veteran rest day?

 

I'm just curious about Brown. Not having access to the practices, I haven't really seen him contribute and don't know what kind of connection him and Allen will have.

 

His spot is safe, all reports from practice are that he has looked very strong

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Is Foster truly a lock? 

[ddaryl]

4 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Is Foster truly a lock? 

 

 

I don't think so. He needs to start showing some thing. If Duke Williams shows something in preseason 3 I'd be worried if I was Foster

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Brown Jones Beasley Roberts seem to be locks.

Foster gets more time with 1s than anyone else so it really comes down to McKenzie vs Williams. And Williams probably ends up on the PS if I had to guess. He could conceivably sign elsewhere too but that's my guess. 

[FlaFitz1]

32 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

 

I don't believe that is correct. Jones had more drops than just 2. Where in the world did you get that?

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=30150

 

[billykay]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I'm not really sure why the Bills would want to trade away their leader in touchdown receptions from last year for a late round pick. Seems like bad business.

To make room for another worthy WR on the roster.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

McKenzie has popped so much during the games, not only in the preseason but also in the regular season last year. At this point it would seem rather foolish to let him go. He's a very dangerous weapon on offense AND special teams.

 

You have a primary X, a primary Y, and a primary slot, and you have backups for all three. Some teams will keep a 7th receiver as a specialist. This is what I would do if I were the Bills...

 

X: Brown, Foster
Y: Jones, Williams
Slot: Beasley, McKenzie

Specialist: Roberts

I actually think this is a position on the roster where the Bills need to keep an extra player. It is not unheard of to keep 7, especially when you have such a great specialist in Roberts and you have so many unique skill sets that you don't want to lose.

 

You might even see McCloud and Phillips on the practice squad, too!

 

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, billykay said:

To make room for another worthy WR on the roster.

What makes any of the other receivers that he would be cut in favor of -- none of whom have ever caught a regular season touchdown -- worthy of booting him off the roster? The fact that they impressed in camp or a preseason game?

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

25 minutes ago, FlaFitz1 said:

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=30150

 

 

 

It’s not just about drops. It’s about the fact that when Allen targets Zay a negative play is the result far too much. Search receivers on Pro Football Reference with 100+ targets and sort by catch percentage. He comes up ranked 25th out of 28 WR’s and has a much lower YPC and YPT average than 90% of the receivers on the list. 

 

At the very least he needs to be targeted far less than he was last year unless him and Allen start to connect on the same page more often.

 

And of course we saw the same problems when Tyrod was QB too. And last year Foster managed to have a much higher ypc and catch percentage than Zay. The common denominator in Zay’s lack of production seems to be Zay himself thus far.

 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2018&year_max=2018&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos[]=wr&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2019&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=pick_overall&conference=any&draft_pos[]=qb&draft_pos[]=rb&draft_pos[]=wr&draft_pos[]=te&draft_pos[]=e&draft_pos[]=t&draft_pos[]=g&draft_pos[]=c&draft_pos[]=ol&draft_pos[]=dt&draft_pos[]=de&draft_pos[]=dl&draft_pos[]=ilb&draft_pos[]=olb&draft_pos[]=lb&draft_pos[]=cb&draft_pos[]=s&draft_pos[]=db&draft_pos[]=k&draft_pos[]=p&c1stat=targets&c1comp=gt&c1val=100&c2stat=pass_sacked&c2comp=gt&c5val=1.0&order_by=catch_pct

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, djp14150 said:

I look st it and say the team has 

 

2 qb

9 OL

13 WR/TE/RB

1 Returner 

 

on D

8 DL

6 LB

1 OLB/DE

10 DB

 

3 ST..k, p, ls

 

for recrivers

 

4 RB 

5 WR

3 TE

1 returner (WR)

1 best player left

 

i don’t see the bed to keep a FB. Use a TE in this role.

1 bext left

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are real close to what the team will look like position wise to start the season especially if Kroft starts out on PUP.

Roberts showing worth as a WR pretty much takes away any fantasy of 7 WR on the team.

DiMarco is a key unknown.

 

The only other wrench in the works is if McDermott doesn't go with a 25 balance on O and D.

I think there is a chance he goes 26-O and 24-D (it was that way for some time last year) especially if key STers are on O.

 

Lots of posters are saying a lot of the Bills cuts will get snatched up by other teams.

History shows that is usually not the case.

A couple surely may but I think more than a few good players will make it onto the PS.

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Is Foster truly a lock? 

Tough to say, but I don't see the coaching staff giving up on him.

 

He had a horrible preseason last year too. Then later on he put it together and was playing very good in the second half of the season.

 

He might not be a lock, but I think he will make the final 53.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Mark Vader

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Taking 6. And after week two this is what I am thinking

 

Brown

Jones

Foster

Beasley

Roberts 

 

so comes down to size or shiftiness 

Williams - Size

McCloud - Shiftiness 

 

Also could very well keep and Extra WR to start season depending on Kroft

 

Kroft - PUP

Knox

Sweeney

 

so do you cut Lee Smith for an extra WR spot? 

 

McKenzie has to be ahead of Ray Ray right now.  He’s pulled away the last 2 weeks IMO

[Don Otreply]

The thing is,  no-one feels confident that Jones will catch what’s thrown to him, even his die hard fans don’t feel super confident. My feeling on this is that he is scared of the hit that’s inevitably coming in close quarters and this effects his catch in the clutch moments.  Saw eight drops in the five minutes of drops video, might have been more. That was only the games with JA at Qb.

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited August 18, 2019 by Don Otreply

[Patrick Duffy]

41 minutes ago, FlaFitz1 said:

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=30150

 

 

Well, that clearly has to be a typo or just wrong because I know Zay Jones dropped more than just 2 passes in all of last season. Hell I saw him drop 2 in just one game last year much less the whole season.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, FlaFitz1 said:

 

Jones was targeted 102 times last season and had 2 drops

Foster was targeted 44 times and had 2 drops

Beasley was targeted 87 times by Dallas last year and had 2 drops

Brown was targeted 97 times in Baltimore and dropped 6

McKenzie saw 30 targets with 1 drop

Roberts targeted 18 times dropped 1

 

Wrong.  Zay has way more drops and here is video evidence.  This is just the 10 games with Allen and doesn’t even include the 4 games with NP and DA. Zay is on this reel more than any other WR at 8 or 9 times.

 

 

The “dropped ball” stat that is tracked is highly inaccurate every year. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Mrbojanglezs]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong.  Zay has way more drops and here is video evidence.  This is just the 10 games with Allen and doesn’t even include the 4 games with NP and DA. Zay is on this reel more than any other WR at 8 or 9 times.

 

 

The “dropped ball” stat that is tracked is highly inaccurate every year. 

 

Thank you for this. The throw at 47 seconds of this video is exactly why I'd rather have Duke Williams on this team. Zay disappoints far too often with his hands, and he is afraid of contact 

[Nelius]

3 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Am I crazy for wanting Duke on the team over Zay? Duke looks like he has way better hands for contested catches over the middle. 

 

 

How about Duke over Foster? I don't get the blind Foster love on here, especially when coupled with blind Zay Jones hate. Why is Foster so safe if Zay is presumably on the bubble?

[pennstate10]

I don't think it's a crazy idea to keep 7 WR. This would include both Williams and McKenzie. Williams, I think, may be the only WR on the roster with the ball skills to high point contested catches. 

 

What other spot spot would you "short "?

 

i think either TE or LB. because Bills base offense is 11 personnel, and their base defense is a 4-2-5. I'm using base here to signify most common alignment. 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

How about Duke over Foster? I don't get the blind Foster love on here, especially when coupled with blind Zay Jones hate. Why is Foster so safe if Zay is presumably on the bubble?

 

Foster at least contributes speed to the offense. Defenses have to worry about him over the top. I mean I'm disappointed with him this offseason but he still puts stress on the opposition. Zay is just a guy. He doesn't provide anything special. If we're picking between 2 receivers with hand problems I'll take the speedy guy.

[Mrbojanglezs]

11 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

I don't think it's a crazy idea to keep 7 WR. This would include both Williams and McKenzie. Williams, I think, may be the only WR on the roster with the ball skills to high point contested catches. 

 

What other spot spot would you "short "?

 

i think either TE or LB. because Bills base offense is 11 personnel, and their base defense is a 4-2-5. I'm using base here to signify most common alignment. 

You might be able to short TE keep 3 with Sweeny, Knox, Smith with kroft on PUP coming back to make it 4 then make a decision at WR or other position then 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Mrbojanglezs

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

I don't think it's a crazy idea to keep 7 WR. This would include both Williams and McKenzie. Williams, I think, may be the only WR on the roster with the ball skills to high point contested catches. 

 

What other spot spot would you "short "?

 

i think either TE or LB. because Bills base offense is 11 personnel, and their base defense is a 4-2-5. I'm using base here to signify most common alignment. 

 

Only dressing 46 on game day.  There is a good chance only 5 WR dress.

[BullBuchanan]

If Duke makes one more big catch I could see it going:

 

Brown 

Beasley

Zay

Foster

Roberts 
Williams

I just don't see what McCloud and McKenzie offer that you can't find anywhere.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by BullBuchanan

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Well first of all, he plays all four special teams units. A player that plays all four special teams units is more valuable than a back-end receiver who doesn't really contribute on special teams. So even if special teams were ALL that Dimarco did, he would be worth keeping over a non-ST contributing depth receiver.

But it's NOT all he does. He plays about 20-30% of the offensive snaps. Daboll's offensive playbook is extremely similar to New England's. It features a fullback. In the NFL, your offensive system either features a fullback or it doesn't. Daboll's does. You could employ a back-end-of-the-roster TE as a fullback, but he probably wouldn't be any good at it.

Unless and until the Bills change offensive coordinators and offensive playbooks, you can count on them continuing to employ and use a traditional fullback.

Thanks. I didn't understand the case for Dimarco.  This explains it and answers the question. He is in. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Shaw66

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

Foster is NOT getting cut.

 

Be serious, people.

 

 

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

I'm not really sure why the Bills would want to trade away their leader in touchdown receptions from last year for a late round pick. Seems like bad business.

Welcome to roster management when you have depth.  When you have more options than you have slots, you look at potential and trade value.  You certainly dont look at history.

 

It's unlikely Jones will ever lead this team in TDs again.  He has trade value.  Williams has more potential.  In that situation, even though Jonea may be in the top 6 in terms of current performance, a year from now the Bills may be better off having gotten a po k for him now and having let someone else grow into something.  

 

If Jones isnt in the top 3 receivers, his best use may be as trade bait. 

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Foster at least contributes speed to the offense. Defenses have to worry about him over the top. I mean I'm disappointed with him this offseason but he still puts stress on the opposition. Zay is just a guy. He doesn't provide anything special. If we're picking between 2 receivers with hand problems I'll take the speedy guy.

 

 

We have speed in spades with Brown McKenzie Beasley Roberts ..What we need is tall WR who can go up and make the circus catch with a sick arm radius.. If Duke can make catches like he did in Carolina sign me up

[Shaw66]

48 minutes ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

Foster is NOT getting cut.

 

Be serious, people.

 

 

I raised the question because it seems to me that Brown, Beasley and Roberts are the only locks.  I can imagine scenarios where any of the others is cut/traded.  

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

I raised the question because it seems to me that Brown, Beasley and Roberts are the only locks.  I can imagine scenarios where any of the others is cut/traded.  

 

I wasn't referring to you, actually.  I'm a big fan of your posts.  I should have quoted others.  My bad.  That being said, I think Foster is an absolute lock.  For an UDFA to have contributed as much as he did last year, and then to all of a sudden just throw him to the curb... doesn't make sense to me.

[Shaw66]

46 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

 If Duke can make catches like he did in Carolina sign me up

Never saw Zay make a catch like Duke's TD.  That kind of ability is special.

[Rocky Landing]

I think a lot of folks here consider it a given that there will be six WRs. I don't believe this is the case. Beane had mentioned on more than one occasion the possibility of only carrying five. I also think that we could carry four TEs, and four RBs, which would make a five WR scenario almost certain. And, at that point, I think the competition if far less settled. Brown, Beasley, Roberts, Jones, Foster would be the conventional wisdom, but I could certainly see Jones, or Foster losing out to some of the other guys fighting for a spot.

[eball]

5 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Does he have an injury or veteran rest day?

 

I'm just curious about Brown. Not having access to the practices, I haven't really seen him contribute and don't know what kind of connection him and Allen will have.

 

No injury, just didn't dress.  If you've noticed this weekend, a lot of "no doubt" starters have been rested by teams.  Brown is clearly the #1 receiver for the Bills, based upon his performance in practice and via every media member who has commented on the subject.  He and Allen have had lots of work together in camp.