Fouts or Rivers? Young or Montana?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I think these are the two most difficult choices to make when evaluating teams best QB.

NFL.com chose Rivers but I would go with Fouts.  He is a better pure passer and if he were allowed to play with today's rules he would be unstoppable. 

Young is in my top 5 QB of all time, but Montana is still my top choice. Again if Montana played today with his combination of athleticism and a accuracy, he would pass like Brady and add 400 yards on the ground.

 

[row_33]

Fouts and Montana without more than a millionth of a second of hesitation.

 

[BruceVilanch]

Montana and Fouts would torch the league if they played today. 

[billsintaiwan]

29 minutes ago, row_33 said:

Fouts and Montana without more than a millionth of a second of hesitation.

 

Young and Montana are closer. Fouts was like Marino before Marino. 

[bills11]

Easily Fouts and montana...both were just better passers and QBs then the latter...young was much closer to Montana then rivers to Fouts but nonetheless inferior .

[Doc Brown]

Montana and Young are close.  Young put up slightly better regular season passing numbers in terms of passer rating and was a far superior runner.  Both had decent WR support, average running support, and had pretty good defensive support throughout their careers.  Montana put up unreal numbers (for the time) in the playoffs and obviously his 4-0 Superbowl record warps Young's 1-0 record.  I'd go with Montana but it's not a runaway.  Fouts over Rivers btw.

[VADC Bills]

I would go with Fouts and Montana.

Rivers doesn't really impress though he is solid.

Young took about 6 years to get it going.

I think the best thing to happen to Young was to play behind Montana.

[Thurman#1]

 

Rivers and Montana.

 

Fouts was very good, especially for his time, but he threw a lot of INTs. Some of that was desperation from being on a bad team and being behind a lot. Not all of it. 254 TDs and 242 INTs. It's a bit startling to see. And yeah, it was harder back then to put up great stats, I get that. Still. Plus Fouts had about 5 - 6 years when he was very good and in the rest, he wasn't hitting on all cylinders.

 

 

I liked Fouts a lot, both then and now, but Rivers is terrific. He's underappreciated.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Thurman#1

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

Rivers and Montana.

 

Fouts was very good, especially for his time, but he threw a lot of INTs. Some of that was desperation from being on a bad team and being behind a lot. Not all of it. 254 TDs and 242 INTs. It's a bit startling to see. And yeah, it was harder back then to put up great stats, I get that. Still.

 

 

I liked Fouts a lot, both then and now, but Rivers is terrific. He's underappreciated.

 

 

There you have it, someone with useless stats.... 

[Bill from NYC]

FWIW, Fouts had one of the best groups of receivers ever to play on one team.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

FWIW, Fouts had one of the best groups of receivers ever to play on one team.

 

Best team to never win it all for me, since 1973

 

should have won it in the wide open 1980 season 

1 hour ago, High Football IQ said:

Rivers is an all time great but unless the Chargers can get to a SB and win one the next few years he'll always be overlooked in the annals of NFL history.

 

Shouldn’t take a fan more than 15 seconds to come up with 10 QBs who totally blow away Rivers, that all time great list has how many?  50 or 100?

 

 

[RyanC883]

Rivers and Montana.  

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I think these are the two most difficult choices to make when evaluating teams best QB.

NFL.com chose Rivers but I would go with Fouts.  He is a better pure passer and if he were allowed to play with today's rules he would be unstoppable. 

Young is in my top 5 QB of all time, but Montana is still my top choice. Again if Montana played today with his combination of athleticism and a accuracy, he would pass like Brady and add 400 yards on the ground.

 

 

You think Montana would run for 400 yards on the ground?  Um, he averaged less than 9 yards rushing per game.  Why exactly do you think he would rush for 400 yards in today’s even faster NFL when he didn’t do it in his own era?

 

To the original question: 

 

Fouts by a wide margin.

 

Monatana by a slim margin

 

BUT, Young may be the better choice if they both were playing in today’s game.  People tend to forget just how good Young was, in fact, SF traded away Montana who still had a couple years left just to get Young at the helm.  Similar to GB with Favre and having a young stud waiting on the bench.  Young’s game is similar to Rodgers too in terms of athleticism and accuracy.  Young is a top 5 QB all time IMO, and had he had a longer run at the top, he likely would be a consensus top 3.

 

 

[row_33]

 

 

young as top 5?  That’s Acid trip fanatical unreal devotion, I don’t care the slightest to know why you see it that way.... nice troll attempt though 

 

[Rico]

34 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

 

young as top 5?  That’s Acid trip fanatical unreal devotion, I don’t care the slightest to know why you see it that way.... nice troll attempt though 

 

Maybe 1 of the top 5 most entertaining to watch... but if I want to win a very big game, I’m not picking him, that’s for damn sure. 

 

[hondo in seattle]

I think yards are an underutilized statistic for quarterbacks.  As Hank Stram famously said, the job of the offense is to "matriculate" the ball down the field.  

 

And that's what Fouts did.  He piled up the yards.  In 1981, for example, Fouts passed for nearly 5,000 yards in a season where no other QB passed for over 4,000 - not Montana, Bradshaw, Theisman, Manning, Stabler, Jaworski, Andersen, Plunkett or anyone else.  

 

I don't dismiss Rivers' skills.  But Fouts was special in his era.  

[dma0034]

Skipped past Brees on the road from Fouts to Rivers (which I understand).

 

I would take Young over Montana. Fouts over Rivers.

[Just Joshin']

Young was great but not as good as Montana.  I wonder if people taking Young have ever watched Montana.

 

Fouts would be my choice over Rivers.  Rivers is very good but Fouts was dominant.  Rivers has had many good years but what is is signature moment?  Good for a long time is not enough.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

58 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

 

young as top 5?  That’s Acid trip fanatical unreal devotion, I don’t care the slightest to know why you see it that way.... nice troll attempt though 

 

What is your top 5? Young is 3rd all time in QB rating so I'm unclear why you think it is unreal?

Mine shifts around from time to time and is to some degree on how much I factor in the era they played.

Mine currently is Brady, Montana, Manning, Favre, Young, followed by Elway, Rodgers, Marino and Brees. I know many think more highly of Brees and Rodgers than where I have them listed. Right or wrong I think Brady and Manning are better than Brees and Rodgers and I'm compensating for the era in which they played for the others.

Just my opinion but at least the career QB rating suggests I'm not far off

3 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

There you have it, someone with useless stats.... 

What is the useless stat? Interceptions? 

If Favre throws two less INTs he probably wins two more SuperBowls. 

As for important stats yes you can say wins and losses but I favor YPA and TD/INT ratio.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You think Montana would run for 400 yards on the ground?  Um, he averaged less than 9 yards rushing per game.  Why exactly do you think he would rush for 400 yards in today’s even faster NFL when he didn’t do it in his own era?

 

To the original question: 

 

Fouts by a wide margin.

 

Monatana by a slim margin

 

BUT, Young may be the better choice if they both were playing in today’s game.  People tend to forget just how good Young was, in fact, SF traded away Montana who still had a couple years left just to get Young at the helm.  Similar to GB with Favre and having a young stud waiting on the bench.  Young’s game is similar to Rodgers too in terms of athleticism and accuracy.  Young is a top 5 QB all time IMO, and had he had a longer run at the top, he likely would be a consensus top 3.

 

 

This is one of the craziest/best ever runs by a QB in NFL history--but I'm still picking Montana overall as the best franchise QB for them:

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

9 hours ago, row_33 said:

Fouts and Montana without more than a millionth of a second of hesitation.

 

I agree but I have heard several defenders say that they would rather play against Montana than Young.

[KGun12TD]

I never get the Young vs Montana. Montana all the time without a thought.

[Alphadawg7]

49 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

This is one of the craziest/best ever runs by a QB in NFL history--but I'm still picking Montana overall as the best franchise QB for them:

 

 

 

Yup, and I remember it vividly as I watched that live with my Dad.  

 

You wont get any argument from me or anyone else by picking Montana over Young in this discussion, I mean he is and always will be in the GOAT conversation.  He is also the face of that franchises entire history.  

 

But I will say this, had Young been the QB of the same 49er teams that Montana was, he would have also easily have been 4-0 in the same SB's and probably has an even better statistical career.  He was that good and more athletic as you can see in this video.  

 

This is why when I make my top 5 of all time QB list, Steve Young is always in there and I have him ahead of guys like Peyton Manning, Elway, etc.  My list as of right now is:

 

1.  Brady - Not only is his play elite, but when you look at what he has had to work with in terms of talent compared to someone like Montana, its insane what he has accomplished.  

2.  Montana - Its a close race here, but the massive talent gap between Brady and Montana's supporting cast is why I can't put him at the top anymore over Brady.

3.  Unitas - This is more honorary for me as I didn't watch him play, but just about everyone who has always has him here, so he clearly deserves it. 

4.  Young - As talented as anyone on this list.

 

At 5, its quite debatable for me as I can see cases for guys like (in no particular order) Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Elway, or Marino.  And honestly, be hard to argue against any of them being the 5th guy to round out the top 5.  

[GreggTX]

But would Johnny U make it in today's NFL?

 

I do agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Marino deserves at least a mention here along with Peyton.

Edited June 6, 2019 by GreggTX

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 hours ago, row_33 said:

Fouts and Montana without more than a millionth of a second of hesitation.

 

 

...yup...not even close..........and having Air Coryell and Bill Walsh running the respective shows sure helped.......

[Rico]

50 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yup, and I remember it vividly as I watched that live with my Dad.  

 

You wont get any argument from me or anyone else by picking Montana over Young in this discussion, I mean he is and always will be in the GOAT conversation.  He is also the face of that franchises entire history.  

 

But I will say this, had Young been the QB of the same 49er teams that Montana was, he would have also easily have been 4-0 in the same SB's and probably has an even better statistical career.  He was that good and more athletic as you can see in this video.  

 

This is why when I make my top 5 of all time QB list, Steve Young is always in there and I have him ahead of guys like Peyton Manning, Elway, etc.  My list as of right now is:

 

1.  Brady - Not only is his play elite, but when you look at what he has had to work with in terms of talent compared to someone like Montana, its insane what he has accomplished.  

2.  Montana - Its a close race here, but the massive talent gap between Brady and Montana's supporting cast is why I can't put him at the top anymore over Brady.

3.  Unitas - This is more honorary for me as I didn't watch him play, but just about everyone who has always has him here, so he clearly deserves it. 

4.  Young - As talented as anyone on this list.

 

At 5, its quite debatable for me as I can see cases for guys like (in no particular order) Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Elway, or Marino.  And honestly, be hard to argue against any of them being the 5th guy to round out the top 5.  

If a healthy Montana was still the QB on those Steve Young-led 49ers teams after he left, odds are he would have more than 1 additional ring. It’s comparing a great regular-season QB to $$$.

[RobbRiddick]

Young was fantastic but I'd still go with Montana. I used to be adamant that he was better than Brady, when you took into account changes in rules etc. but now I'm not so sure, because there's no denying Brady's excellence, even if I do hate him.

 

Two things that I do put in Montana's favor over Brady:

 

1. Brady has never torched a team in the SB, as in completely dominated them start to finish. Montana did. He dismantled the Broncos defense (which was number 1 in the NFL that year I believe) from start to finish.

 

2. And this one is just my own subjective opinion, if I had a gun to my head and had to pick one QB from history to take my team down the field for a winning TD in the final 2 minutes, I'd choose Montana. Brady would be second, but Joe Cool would still be my absolute number one. 

[wppete]

Rivers and Montana

[Victory Formation]

If i could pick anyone to play for us right now today excluding Josh Allen:

 

1. Brady

2. Peyton Manning

3. Montana

4. Marino

5. Favre

6. Brees

7. Elway

8. Young

9. Rodgers

10. Kelly

 

Based off of tastes, conjecture, personality, style and grace.

 

[mjt328]

I'm not old enough to have seen Dan Fouts play. 

So no opinion on the Chargers side.

 

Joe Montana gets the vote over Steve Young, and it isn't really close.

The 49ers had both QBs for years, and never considered going with Young until Montana was past his prime.

Once Young stepped in, he was fantastic... but he never reached the levels of his predecessor.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

I'm not old enough to have seen Dan Fouts play. 

So no opinion on the Chargers side.

 

Joe Montana gets the vote over Steve Young, and it isn't really close.

The 49ers had both QBs for years, and never considered going with Young until Montana was past his prime.

Once Young stepped in, he was fantastic... but he never reached the levels of his predecessor.

 

 

 

...LOL...had tickets and tripped planned to ND in 1976 for Pitt vs ND......Montana ended up on IR and got to watch Slager led Domers get smoked by Dorsett and Pitt 31-10...TD bounced outside off tackle and went 61 yards to "the house"....

[Punching Bag]

12 hours ago, billsintaiwan said:

Young and Montana are closer. Fouts was like Marino before Marino. 

 

I do not remember Fouts that well.  Was he good at getting his RBs destroyed like Marino too?

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not remember Fouts that well.  Was he good at getting his RBs destroyed like Marino too?

 

 

..Coryell was as masterful as Marchibroda IMO.......Kellen Winslow SR was one of his favorite targets.....Fouts and SD were always fun to watch...saw this game in its entirety and it was a true classic...

 

The Epic in Miami was the National Football League AFC divisional playoff game between the San Diego Chargers and Miami Dolphins that took place on January 2, 1982 in the Miami Orange Bowl. The game, won by the Chargers in overtime, 41–38, is one of the most famous in National Football League lore because of the conditions on the field

 

Team Stats

	SDG	MIA
First Downs	34	25
Rush-Yds-TDs	29-149-1	28-78-1
Cmp-Att-Yd-TD-INT	33-54-433-3-1	31-48-423-4-2
Sacked-Yards	2-18	3-29
Net Pass Yards	415	394
Total Yards	564	472
Fumbles-Lost	3-3	2-1
Turnovers	4	3
Penalties-Yards	9-55	7-50

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

I think Young's peak may have been better than Montana's.  Also I wonder sometimes if Dan Marino would have won a ton of rings in this era and been considered the GOAT.

[Bob in STL]

Montana >> Young 

Fouts >>> Rivers

[KD in CA]

Montana was Brady in the era where you were allowed to touch the QB.  Brady playing in the 80s would have retired 10 years ago.

[LSHMEAB]

I think Young was a better QB than Montana and played on lesser teams(excluding 95). Walsh was at the end of the line by the time Young took over.

 

When we start taking about things like GOAT, championships become a polarizing issue. Montana was absolutely clutch, so you can't completely dismiss that angle. Still going with Young.

[Cripple Creek]

10 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

FWIW, Fouts had one of the best groups of receivers ever to play on one team.

He had 3 good ones ,

SF had Rice and John Taylor

Pittsburgh Swan and Stallworth

St Louis Holt, Bruce, Az -Zahir Hakim & Proehl

Washington Monk, Clark, Sanders

Biletnikoff, Branch

Clayton, Duper, Moore

Carter, Moss, Reed

 

Joiner, Winslow and Jefferson are top 5ish for sure.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Cripple Creek
forgot to type Stallworth

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

He had 3 good ones ,

SF had Rice and John Taylor

Pittsburgh Swan and

St Louis Holt, Bruce, Az -Zahir Hakim & Proehl

Washington Monk, Clark, Sanders

Biletnikoff, Branch

Clayton, Duper, Moore

Carter, Moss, Reed

 

Joiner, Winslow and Jefferson are top 5ish for sure.

 

 

..NICELY done bud..........some damn good football watchin' right there..............

[Cripple Creek]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..NICELY done bud..........some damn good football watchin' right there..............

 

People often talk about what this QB would do in today's game.  Same can be said for WRs.  Can you imagine Bambi with room to roam?