BADOLBILZ Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 24 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Well said and 100% accurate on both points. We're on the clock and we have 4 full seasons left to make a run before cap room becomes an issue. Going after someone who's personality would not allow him to be seen in Buffalo should've been obvious to Beane & Co. Realistically more like 3 full seasons left. If your QB pans out then the fat contract comes after season 4............the 5th year option itself is a big bump.........but you don't even let him play the 5th year @ $15M if you think he's a $30M franchise QB.......you get that long term deal done and keep the peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Lets keep calm. Julio is not even available. There is speculation he could be made available, but as of right now, he is not. Would I be interested in a trade for him, sure, who wouldn't like having an Elite WR. Do I think it will happen, absolutely not. Here is why. Brown killed his trade value and the Steelers leverage, so the price to acquire was going to be at a discount if you are willing to take on the contract. Julio will have no such discount. Its going to take premium trade assets to get him, and I don't see Beane both trading away high draft picks and then taking on that contract for a 30 year old WR who has had been banged up a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 46 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m not sure that’s an apt comparison. They gave up more for Watkins and most importantly he was a rookie. The whole point of this is to bring in a proven, top notch WR as the #1 and not to make a rookie absorb that role with a young QB. I do realize that your post is suggesting that you don’t think Josh will improve regardless of what is around him, which is something that no one knows (but I’d certainly like to see if he does, instead of surrounding him with crap). I’m pretty sure the team doesn’t share your opinion though otherwise they wouldn’t have drafted him. No one knows what he will be, yet. The issue is what is the best way to build an offense that would put your young qb in a position to succeed. Is it better to use the cap money for a very good receiver at the expense of using that cap money to bring in two good offensive lineman and also upgrade the receiver unit with a more productive TE and a good #2 caliber receiver. Having a good running game will surely help the qb and our offense. I would love to have a Julio Jones on our roster. But I wouldn't give up a first round pick for him and then have to give him top tier money at the expense of some other needs. If you review the proposed AB deal it was a very good deal for us because we exchanged first round picks and then had to consider the contract demands for the proposed player. It seems that Beane didn't even want to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I would explore giving up a draft pick or two in 2020, not this year. And I would explore this after the draft, if the Bills haven't done anything at the WR position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Would I take a motivated AB for a 3rd, a 5th, and that contract? Absolutely with Josh Allen still on his rookie contract and in desparate need of a weapon. It likely makes it more attractive to play here, boosts team morale knowing we have a legitimate shot at a deep playoff run, gives us a true assessment of Josh Allen, and we could draft a WR knowing that he could operate with the defense putting their focus on AB. Damn you Rapoport for wanting to get the story in first instead of getting it right. I wouldn't be angry now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: I'm stil confused why Bills fans care about money that isn't theirs. A lot of fans here care more about winning the salary cap than winning games. Have you been paying attention the past few years? How has giving bad contracts to players because "its not your money" worked out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, JohnC said: The issue is what is the best way to build an offense that would put your young qb in a position to succeed. Is it better to use the cap money for a very good receiver at the expense of using that cap money to bring in two good offensive lineman and also upgrade the receiver unit with a more productive TE and a good #2 caliber receiver. Having a good running game will surely help the qb and our offense. I would love to have a Julio Jones on our roster. But I wouldn't give up a first round pick for him and then have to give him top tier money at the expense of some other needs. If you review the proposed AB deal it was a very good deal for us because we exchanged first round picks and then had to consider the contract demands for the proposed player. It seems that Beane didn't even want to go there. If we were going to trade for Julio it would be possible to swap picks, say 1st and 2nd, and throw in a later round pick and that would give the Falcons the value of a late round 1st round pick. Ultimately I think that's were Julio's worth is, a late round 1st. A player like OBJ or Evans, because of age, is more worth that number 9 pick AND they already have a contract in place. The Bills swap of picks with Pitt that was being reported would have equated to a late 1st round pick at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I'm stil confused why Bills fans care about money that isn't theirs. A lot of fans here care more about winning the salary cap than winning games. You have to make things fit under the salary cap and teams can't spend money as judiciously as they want. Bills fans know this and want to build a team according to the rules of the cap. Nobody wants to win the salary cap more than games. That's just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Doc said: Have you been paying attention the past few years? How has giving bad contracts to players because "its not your money" worked out? You might want to sit down Doc, but good players get paid a lot of money! Is Star a great contract? Murphy? At least when Dareus signed his deal, he was all pro. If one of young guys becomes an all pro, they will get paid a lot of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 6 hours ago, thurst44 said: Frankly, I'm a bit tired of this mentality. They had almost the #1 defense last year, a lot of people at key positions heading towards their prime, and a lot of money to spend in free agency. If they get sign three good o-linemen, trade for Julio, and sign a pass rusher (this is before the draft -- where at worse we gave up a pick), why can't they be a contender this year? Teams make fast jumps all the time in this league. I'd argue that a great WR could help Allen progress. They can pay Julio and still easily have enough cap space to pick up linemen (and probably a few more players), and still have money going forward to extend White, Milano, Edmunds, Allen, etc. if/when the times come. wasting assets to get old WRs is not what we need. We need WRs, TEs, Olinemen, DT, DE, LB and RB . Julio is not going to help us but actually would set us back. Its not a mentality, its reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: wasting assets to get old WRs is not what we need. We need WRs, TEs, Olinemen, DT, DE, LB and RB . Julio is not going to help us but actually would set us back. Its not a mentality, its reality. How about using assets to get a good WR? He’s not old. So much obsession with getting players that are really young. We have tons of those. We need a mix of vets and young guys. Let’s get as good players as we can. You do realize it’s one contract for an offensive weapon and wouldn’t preclude other moves? They currently spend a total of 2.4 on the WR group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: How about using assets to get a good WR? He’s not old. So much obsession with getting players that are really young. We have tons of those. We need a mix of vets and young guys. Let’s get as good players as we can. You do realize it’s one contract for an offensive weapon and wouldn’t preclude other moves? They currently spend a total of 2.4 on the WR group. Do yo know how much it would cost to get Jones?? Probably two firsts and change . No way should we part with our first and next year's first plus more. Lets not forget the fact he has missed many games due to injury. Nothing wrong with getting a solid vet and draft some. Lets get some of these guys. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2019/03/08/nfl-free-agency-buffalo-bills-10-wide-receivers-devin-funchess/3071756002/ Edited March 10, 2019 by Buffalo Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Do yo know how much it would cost to get Jones?? Probably two firsts and change . No way should we part with our first and next year's first plus more. Lets not forget the fact he has missed many games due to injury. Nothing wrong with getting a solid vet and draft some. Lets get some of these guys. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2019/03/08/nfl-free-agency-buffalo-bills-10-wide-receivers-devin-funchess/3071756002/ Ok... I doubt that highly but that’s not the premise of this. I never said I would give that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 No thank you. Jones is still a great player, but towards the backend of his career and I don’t see his remaining good years aligning with the Bills being talented enough to compete at the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Ok... I doubt that highly but that’s not the premise of this. I never said I would give that up. True , but that is what i think it would take, i just dont think they want to get rid of him. But if they would take a third i would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 13 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: No. We are far from a contender , we need to keep our assets and work the draft and free agency. Completely disagree that we are far from a contender, I think we are going to be contenders next year . We were 5-5* and 1 no contest (Texans Game) with Allen as a starter behind an atrocious OL, which we'll definitely be upgrading , as well as playmakers. On Defense we literally lost 1 piece , an aging Kyle who was past his prime , his leadership will be missed though. The D can only get stronger as Edmunds and Co progress and we add some pieces to an already stacked unit. I just don't understand how ppl say we won't be contenders, especially since our Franchise QB final 6 gms were all 1 score or less , besides @NE which we lost by 12. I just don't see a big gap between us n other AFC teams , especially after what I anticipate to be a huge improvement to the O , we're going to be right in the thick of things. Beane seriously inquiring about AB also shows me that the Bills brass feel they are ready to be legit contenders in 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Only to pi$$ off AB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I haven’t read every post so I apologize if this has already been written. One of the most important acquisitions the great Bills teams of the early 1990s made was James Lofton at age 33. If Jones can be acquired I’m in favor, he would be a great help to a young QB and young WRs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Yes. Julio is worth it as a player and he fits the culture of what McDermott and Beane have built in Buffalo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I need more information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Pre FA my answer is no. Post FA who knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: Only to pi$$ off AB. When Josh is throwing bombs downfield to Julio and Carr is hurt again because his eyeliner seeped into his contact lens and AB is one McCarron booboo away from singing “Peterman Can” in a baseball stadium or parking lot or rec league field because they have no home... well who will be laughing then, amirite? Edited March 10, 2019 by YoloinOhio 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 24 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: When Josh is throwing bombs downfield to Julio and Carr is hurt again because his eyeliner seeped into his contact lens and AB is one McCarron booboo away from singing “Peterman Can” in a baseball stadium or parking lot or rec league field because they have no home... well who will be laughing then, amirite? This is worth repeating, just because....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You might want to sit down Doc, but good players get paid a lot of money! Is Star a great contract? Murphy? At least when Dareus signed his deal, he was all pro. If one of young guys becomes an all pro, they will get paid a lot of money. They missed on Murphy because he wasn’t healthy. It will be interesting to see if they keep him and if they do it’s because he’s finally healthy. But Star did what he was brought in to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I just want good WR talent.....dont care how we get it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danh920 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 If you do this, wait until after the draft so #9 is off the board. He was promised a raise and that will drive his price up, especially after obj and if hill gets paid. All that said, I'd feel better investing in the line while we get above average wrs, and more importantly, football players at the skill positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Julio is neutralized by a physical corner as we have seen in past when Bills played Falcons so no he is not worth that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 This is my perspective. As a GM, you only have so many resources each year to upgrade your team. Barring a trade, you only have three premium draft picks (Rounds 1-3). After that, pretty much everyone you pick is a long-shot for success. You only have so much cap space, and most good starters are going to run at least $8-10 million. After that, you are hoping to get production out of someone else's castoffs. Julio Jones would likely cost two premium draft picks and would then need a contract of roughly $18-20 million per season. In terms of resources - that's the equivalent of roughly four good starters. There is a time and place where this kind of move makes sense. The Bills are not there yet. The Bills are in Year 2-3 of their rebuild project, depending on whether you count the hiring of McDermott or the hiring of Beane as the starting point. They go into this offseason with anywhere from 5 to 8 significant holes on the roster. If we play our cards right, I think we can address most if not all of these holes in the next two months. But NOT if we are giving away all of our resources for one guy. Making a move for Jones now, would give us a premium WR on the outside. But it would hinder us from upgrading the O-Line. Which means Josh Allen is still running around with no time, our running game is still getting 1 yard on first down, and we are still struggling to move the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 All I can think, after reading this, is that you're right that the Falcons haven't been good since the super bowl, and that exciting win two years ago didn't really mean anything. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 35 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: When is the time to make that move? When a premium WR is the only thing standing between you and being a legitimate Super Bowl contender. 35 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: They could easily sign Julio and fill their offensive line needs at the same time. We currently need a WR, TE, OT, OG and C. We could also use a DT to replace Kyle Williams, and possibly some help with the pass rush. By next year, we will probably be needing a new RB and SLB. There is no way we can trade 2 first rounders (this was the trade presented by the OP) and nearly $20 million per year in cap space... and still have the ability to fill all these holes in the roster. I just don't see it. 35 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Still confused as to what Bills fans are scared of. A premium WR is going to make a lot of money.... and he is also going to help this offense immensely. It's not just the money alone. It's the cap space AND the draft picks. Smart teams build through the draft. This move would drastically hinder our ability to do that. Julio Jones is a great player. But he doesn't turn this team into a Super Bowl contender by himself. Making a move for him would hurt us in other places. If not the O-Line, then with our pass rush, or with the ability to acquire other weapons. To build this team for long-term/sustained success, we need to keep drafting well. Each and every year. This helps limit the holes in your starting lineup. This helps build depth in case of injuries. This protects us when Free Agents eventually leave. Blowing multiple key picks on ONE GUY (unless we are talking QB) is just not smart. Unless you are one player away, and only care about short-term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, mjt328 said: When a premium WR is the only thing standing between you and being a legitimate Super Bowl contender. We currently need a WR, TE, OT, OG and C. We could also use a DT to replace Kyle Williams, and possibly some help with the pass rush. By next year, we will probably be needing a new RB and SLB. There is no way we can trade 2 first rounders (this was the trade presented by the OP) and nearly $20 million per year in cap space... and still have the ability to fill all these holes in the roster. I just don't see it. It's not just the money alone. It's the cap space AND the draft picks. Smart teams build through the draft. This move would drastically hinder our ability to do that. Julio Jones is a great player. But he doesn't turn this team into a Super Bowl contender by himself. Making a move for him would hurt us in other places. If not the O-Line, then with our pass rush, or with the ability to acquire other weapons. To build this team for long-term/sustained success, we need to keep drafting well. Each and every year. This helps limit the holes in your starting lineup. This helps build depth in case of injuries. This protects us when Free Agents eventually leave. Blowing multiple key picks on ONE GUY (unless we are talking QB) is just not smart. Unless you are one player away, and only care about short-term success. No it wasn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 23 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: A link to a rumor is not proof of anything. As for the moderator thing.........not linking is not a fine-able offense per TOS........99% of what is said on here is in fact just one persons opinion and worth about as much as anything Jason LaCanfora says............though it bears note that moderators can also overstep TOS boundaries and penalize or ban people for disagreeing with their takes so proceed with caution Cuddy. The standard here is football discussion and civility. No, a link is not proof, but it serves as a good starting point for further discussion (who said it, how reliable are they known to be vs others who have said different things etc, how reliable is the source that published the rumor and so forth). If someone instead repeatedly tells people to do their own research followed by a little "I can post whatever I want" stomp of the feet, the inevitable conclusion is that they are either not very interested in discussion, or don't know how to do it very well and need to sit, watch, and hopefully learn for a while - independent of "disagreeing with (a mod's) take". If you have problems with the moderation, I suggest you discuss them privately with Scott. The above is a pretty "bad take" on a mod's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The standard here is football discussion and civility. No, a link is not proof, but it serves as a good starting point for further discussion (who said it, how reliable are they known to be vs others who have said different things etc, how reliable is the source that published the rumor and so forth). If someone instead repeatedly tells people to do their own research followed by a little "I can post whatever I want" stomp of the feet, the inevitable conclusion is that they are either not very interested in discussion, or don't know how to do it very well and need to sit, watch, and hopefully learn for a while - independent of "disagreeing with (a mod's) take". If you have problems with the moderation, I suggest you discuss them privately with Scott. The above is a pretty "bad take" on a mod's job. I apologize for the post sounding like an attack on moderators. That wasn't intended. I appreciate the difficulty of the job. Everyone gets emotional about the topics though and didn't want Cuddy to get in trouble. As far as the links...........I agree that they help, no doubt........but DEMANDING a link, as is often the case, is not promoting civility either. We see a lot of that. It can be done kindly. If not provided the respondent can disbelieve. In this case the subject matter was requesting a link to a rumor. I mean.......c'mon now folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) Julio needs to put some pressure on the Falcons. They are up against the cap and in no hurry to get his deal done but planning on working his deal in a manner to reduce his base salary and SAVE cap room. That's some old school caponomics right there. He could get the next 3-4 years guaranteed at close to $20M on the open market now and then get those dummy years added later or get another deal at the end of the current one......he's getting played by the Falcons. Interesting to see what happens after Tyreek Hill gets his deal done...........he and AB aren't the kind of teammates that JJ is and JJ is every bit as good if not better. Edited March 14, 2019 by BADOLBILZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Please please please please please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Yes...Yes ...Yes..More...More ...More...don't stop...don't stop......give it to Brandon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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