Re-purposing Shady McCoy in the passing offense

[YoloinOhio]

Maybe keeping him and using in a different role is the way to go with Lesean...

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/1/30/18201603/lesean-mccoy-asked-to-make-something-out-of-nothing-in-passing-game-buffalo-bills-running-back

LeSean McCoy asked to make something out of nothing in passing game

The pattern of usage for LeSean McCoy gives us some fun stat oddities and shows how valuable the veteran can be

The NFL tracks some advanced stats, including yards after catch or “YAC” in their game statistics and information system. In that database for 2018 they recorded 135 NFL players in the “Receiving Leaders” category. While volume stats like catches (34) and yards (238) don’t show McCoy as an elite talent, he’s the tenth-highest qualifying player in the league when it comes to YAC.

At 8.47 YAC, McCoy is about two yards shy of top YAC man Austin Ekeler, but well ahead of the pack. Despite low volumes, this suggest McCoy was effective in the passing game once the ball was in his hands. Alone, this statistic would hardly be article worthy, so let’s discuss a more common stat and see where McCoy falls.

LeSean McCoy’s average yards per reception in 2018 was 7.00 yards. Go look at the YAC number again. That’s right. LeSean McCoy’s YAC average was higher than his yards per reception. Worded differently he averaged more yards after the catch than he averaged yards per catch. This is the result of McCoy’s average depth of target being 1.47 yards behind the line of scrimmage or -1.47 yards. Put another way: Shady was given nothing to start with in the passing game. In fact, he was given less than nothing and expected to make up the difference and then some.

 

Now I know what you might be thinking—“It’s common for a running back to get the ball behind the line of scrimmage”—and you’re absolutely right. But is it so common that the average depth of target is behind the line of scrimmage? Of the 135 qualifying receivers, only 15 of them had an average depth of target in the negative range.

One of the bigger questions surrounding McCoy isn’t comparing his peers to him, but to his former self. McCoy’s 8.47 YAC is his highest average since 2015 when he hit 8.94. He’s also rarely been asked to start from so far behind the line of scrimmage as he was in 2018. You have to go all the way back to 2012 where his average depth of target was -1.82 yards. When it comes to the short passing game, McCoy’s numbers compare favorably to his younger self.

[oldmanfan]

I would transition Shady to a third down back role.

[Boca BIlls]

I would get rid of Shady and use new RBs that dont dance in the hole.

[CaptnCoke11]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would transition Shady to a third down back role.

I would just release him and not blow 9 million on the cap for an old third down back.  

Another thing with him i can see happening.. The way his career is heading with dwindling production I can see him starting to cause problems in the locker room.  He already got benched for the start of a game for somethingbhe did.  

Edited January 30, 2019 by CaptnCoke11

[row_33]

27 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would transition Shady to a third down back role.

 

three hits and he is done for the day

 

[CommonCents]

Just now, CaptnCoke11 said:

I would just release him and not blow 9 million on the cap for an old third down back.  

Exactly. Year after year late round picks and UDFAs come into this league and contribute. There is zero reason to keep an older back when you don’t have his replacement on deck.

 

They should have drafted Chubb last year and got out in front of it, as I said a million times. Instead they signed another veteran in Ivory and went with the AARP approach with the backfield. 

 

Draft a guy in in the mid rounds, use a late rounder as a flyer and get rid of the old guys. They offer nothing but name recognition. 

[Logic]

People are hating on Shady way too much for his 2018 season.

I fully agree that he danced too much at times and needed to hit the hole with purpose more often.

HOWEVER...our offensive line was absolutely AWFUL at run blocking. Like really, REALLY bad at it. I lost count of the times that Shady was hit within 1 second of being handed the football. 

Those that say he's "washed up" or want to ship him out for peanuts are crazy, in my opinion. He didn't suddenly forget how to play football overnight. Get this man some legitimate offensive linemen and he'll do what he's always done.

I'm all for drafting a young guy to be Shady's heir apparent, but the speed with which so many Bills fans have given up on him -- after a year in which the team had a historically dreadful offensive line -- is baffling to me.

[Marv's Neighbor]

Would we  re-purpose his salary too?

[Shaw66]

36 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would transition Shady to a third down back role.

I don't know if third down back is the right characterizatuon, but a different role in the offense might make sense.  Making McCoy more of a primary target in the offense, using more west coast principles, probably stresses the defense significantly.  This ties in with the notion that Allen needs to go with the shorter option more often, to boost his completion percentage (also a west coast idea). 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

People are hating on Shady way too much for his 2018 season.

I fully agree that he danced too much at times and needed to hit the hole with purpose more often.

HOWEVER...our offensive line was absolutely AWFUL at run blocking. Like really, REALLY bad at it. I lost count of the times that Shady was hit within 1 second of being handed the football. 

Those that say he's "washed up" or want to ship him out for peanuts are crazy, in my opinion. He didn't suddenly forget how to play football overnight. Get this man some legitimate offensive linemen and he'll do what he's always done.

I'm all for drafting a young guy to be Shady's heir apparent, but the speed with which so many Bills fans have given up on him -- after a year in which the team had a historically dreadful offensive line -- is baffling to me.

I think you are right on point.  McCoy danced in holes that were closing fast due to the terrible line play.  The routes that he was asked to run were not downfield and didn't use his speed advantage over the linebackers that were covering him.  When you look at the way that the Cheatriots use James White, it is completely different from the use of McCoy.  White runs a lot of wheel routes, option routes underneath, and an occasional deep route up the seam against zones.  White is a huge part of their offence.  I believe McCoy is a faster and more illusive back than White.  McCoy has been a good receiver throughout his career. He isn't going to be the guy to pound it between the tackles 20 times a game but he can still be a big part of an effective backfield.  2019 should be the year that McCoy is sharing reps with his replacement.

[WhoTom]

Use Shady as the primary receiver on screens and quick slants. That makes up for the deficiencies in the o-line (which should be better next year, but probably not as good as we'd like it to be) and wreaks havoc on the D.

[Magox]

Shady has been a very good locker room asset and the Bills won't be in a cash crunch for 2019.  Even though he most likely won't play to his contracted value it would be best to keep him around for another year.  There are ways to use to him that would benefit the team and having him around to hopefully mentor a drafted RB would pay long-term dividends.

 

Unless the Bills plan on using all their cash which I think is highly unlikely, I don't see why they would look to drop him.  

[Logic]

25 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

I think you are right on point.  McCoy danced in holes that were closing fast due to the terrible line play.  The routes that he was asked to run were not downfield and didn't use his speed advantage over the linebackers that were covering him.  When you look at the way that the Cheatriots use James White, it is completely different from the use of McCoy.  White runs a lot of wheel routes, option routes underneath, and an occasional deep route up the seam against zones.  White is a huge part of their offence.  I believe McCoy is a faster and more illusive back than White.  McCoy has been a good receiver throughout his career. He isn't going to be the guy to pound it between the tackles 20 times a game but he can still be a big part of an effective backfield.  2019 should be the year that McCoy is sharing reps with his replacement.

YES!

When I look at how the Patriots use James White...and Rex Burkhead, and how the used to use Dion Lewis and Kevin Faulk, etc, etc, etc...it drives me absolutely NUTS that the Bills don't use Shady the same way in the passing game. He is more talented than ALL of the above running backs. Splitting him out into the slot or out wide against a linebacker or safety and sending him on a slant or drag route should be easy money every time. Utilizing him as a receiver out of the backfield on wheel routes and option routes - same thing. Easy money. Why don't the Bills do this? Everyone knows the Pats have bad receivers and that their running backs will be getting the ball in the passing game, yet they're STILL able to use them successfully, even with the defense knowing its coming. Again, why can't the currently receiver-deficient Bills do this? It's just maddening.

[CommonCents]

Draft Holyfield in the 3rd and forget about Shady. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I would just release him and not blow 9 million on the cap for an old third down back.  

Another thing with him i can see happening.. The way his career is heading with dwindling production I can see him starting to cause problems in the locker room.  He already got benched for the start of a game for somethingbhe did.  

 

I could see it - but we have no need of salary cap at the moment, and we aren't going to burn through the cap that we have.  So bring him to camp, and confirm if someone can actually take his job.

 

He has better hands than most incoming rookies and running backs in general, he doesn't fumble, he blocks well, and he's still tough to tackle 1x1.  Find me a guy that can do all those things AND be an effective 3 down back... and it'll cost you a premium pick.  

[Shaw66]

21 minutes ago, Magox said:

Shady has been a very good locker room asset and the Bills won't be in a cash crunch for 2019.  Even though he most likely won't play to his contracted value it would be best to keep him around for another year.  There are ways to use to him that would benefit the team and having him around to hopefully mentor a drafted RB would pay long-term dividends.

 

Unless the Bills plan on using all their cash which I think is highly unlikely, I don't see why they would look to drop him.  

People don't understand the locker room presence point about Shady.  They confuse his occasional off field issues with what kind of a teammate he is.  From what I see, he works his butt off and he doesn't complain. My sense is McBeane love him and will keep him.  What they should be doing is fixing the line and the offensive scheme to maximize his talents. In 2019 he likely will be the most talented non-qb on the offense, more talented than any receiver, so the Bills need to do a much better job taking advantage of those talents. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Maybe keeping him and using in a different role is the way to go with Lesean...

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/1/30/18201603/lesean-mccoy-asked-to-make-something-out-of-nothing-in-passing-game-buffalo-bills-running-back

LeSean McCoy asked to make something out of nothing in passing game

The pattern of usage for LeSean McCoy gives us some fun stat oddities and shows how valuable the veteran can be

 

 

 

He was simply used as a checkdown, as our offense was really vertical last season.  

 

One thing i notice when watching a team who uses their backs a lot in the passing game,  is how much they design plays for backs that aren't check downs.  They're identified pre-snap by a matchup they want to see, and whenever they see that matchup they run a play at that player.   Same goes for McCaffrey, Gurley, kamara, etc.  If they see a mismatch they are going that way with the ball.  

[TN Bills Fan]

Renegotiate his salary or move him out in a trade or just waive him.  Not a full-time back anymore.

[Buddy Hix]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

People are hating on Shady way too much for his 2018 season.

I fully agree that he danced too much at times and needed to hit the hole with purpose more often.

HOWEVER...our offensive line was absolutely AWFUL at run blocking. Like really, REALLY bad at it. I lost count of the times that Shady was hit within 1 second of being handed the football. 

Those that say he's "washed up" or want to ship him out for peanuts are crazy, in my opinion. He didn't suddenly forget how to play football overnight. Get this man some legitimate offensive linemen and he'll do what he's always done.

I'm all for drafting a young guy to be Shady's heir apparent, but the speed with which so many Bills fans have given up on him -- after a year in which the team had a historically dreadful offensive line -- is baffling to me.

RBs fall off a cliff production wise at his age. So it’s not “forgetting how to play”, but it’s the same result.

1 hour ago, Magox said:

Shady has been a very good locker room asset and the Bills won't be in a cash crunch for 2019.  Even though he most likely won't play to his contracted value it would be best to keep him around for another year.  There are ways to use to him that would benefit the team and having him around to hopefully mentor a drafted RB would pay long-term dividends.

 

Unless the Bills plan on using all their cash which I think is highly unlikely, I don't see why they would look to drop him.  

Didn’t Shady get benched last season? Doesn’t jive with the “great in the locker room” narrative.

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Buddy Hix said:

RBs fall off a cliff production wise at his age. So it’s not “forgetting how to play”, but it’s the same result.

I'd love to know how getting hit immediately upon receiving the hand-off indicates how his skills/production "fell off a cliff". Care to elaborate?

 

[wiskibreth]

1 hour ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

I think you are right on point.  McCoy danced in holes that were closing fast due to the terrible line play.  The routes that he was asked to run were not downfield and didn't use his speed advantage over the linebackers that were covering him.  When you look at the way that the Cheatriots use James White, it is completely different from the use of McCoy.  White runs a lot of wheel routes, option routes underneath, and an occasional deep route up the seam against zones.  White is a huge part of their offence.  I believe McCoy is a faster and more illusive back than White.  McCoy has been a good receiver throughout his career. He isn't going to be the guy to pound it between the tackles 20 times a game but he can still be a big part of an effective backfield.  2019 should be the year that McCoy is sharing reps with his replacement.

 

1 hour ago, Logic said:

YES!

When I look at how the Patriots use James White...and Rex Burkhead, and how the used to use Dion Lewis and Kevin Faulk, etc, etc, etc...it drives me absolutely NUTS that the Bills don't use Shady the same way in the passing game. He is more talented than ALL of the above running backs. Splitting him out into the slot or out wide against a linebacker or safety and sending him on a slant or drag route should be easy money every time. Utilizing him as a receiver out of the backfield on wheel routes and option routes - same thing. Easy money. Why don't the Bills do this? Everyone knows the Pats have bad receivers and that their running backs will be getting the ball in the passing game, yet they're STILL able to use them successfully, even with the defense knowing its coming. Again, why can't the currently receiver-deficient Bills do this? It's just maddening.

 

Absolutely!  I've been saying the same thing since training camp.  Linebackers are dead meat vs. McCoy.  It baffles me that in what everyone calls a "copy cat league" more teams don't copy New England more...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I would just release him and not blow 9 million on the cap for an old third down back.  

Another thing with him i can see happening.. The way his career is heading with dwindling production I can see him starting to cause problems in the locker room.  He already got benched for the start of a game for somethingbhe did.  

 

1/3 of that cap hit occurs in any case. 

[FLFan]

15 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said:

RBs fall off a cliff production wise at his age. So it’s not “forgetting how to play”, but it’s the same result.

Didn’t Shady get benched last season? Doesn’t jive with the “great in the locker room” narrative.

Yes, he got benched for one play for being late for the team bus.  Hardly makes him a locker room cancer.  Foster credited Shady for helping him get his head on straight after he was cut and then signed to the practuce squad.  That is a much better measure of his locker room value IMO.  

[Buddy Hix]

43 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'd love to know how getting hit immediately upon receiving the hand-off indicates how his skills/production "fell off a cliff". Care to elaborate?

 

Shady wasn’t hit immediately at the hand-off in most cases, he refused to hit the hole (however small or fleeting), IMO.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/123542/inside-slant-running-back-cliff-after-age-27

 

Here’s an older article I found that presents the data. The RB age cliff has been discussed for years in fantasy football, there are lots of articles on it.

31 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Yes, he got benched for one play for being late for the team bus.  Hardly makes him a locker room cancer.  Foster credited Shady for helping him get his head on straight after he was cut and then signed to the practuce squad.  That is a much better measure of his locker room value IMO.  

I was only aware of an infraction, didn’t know what it was for. Either way, I don’t recommend paying a guy top dollar for his locker room presence. But it seems like Beane has already committed to Shady so we shall see what he has left.

[Logic]

13 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said:

Shady wasn’t hit immediately at the hand-off in most cases, he refused to hit the hole (however small or fleeting), IMO.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/123542/inside-slant-running-back-cliff-after-age-27

 

Here’s an older article I found that presents the data. The RB age cliff has been discussed for years in fantasy football, there are lots of articles on it.

I was only aware of an infraction, didn’t know what it was for. Either way, I don’t recommend paying a guy top dollar for his locker room presence. But it seems like Beane has already committed to Shady so we shall see what he has left.

I understand the "running back production historically goes down at a certain age" argument. I just don't see any evidence that this has happened to McCoy yet. His problem last year was mental. Hesitance to hit the hole due to his not having faith that there would BE a hole most of the time. Mental hesitancy based on lackluster offensive line personnel does not equal "falling off the age cliff" to me. But we can agree to disagree.

[Buddy Hix]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

I understand the "running back production historically goes down at a certain age" argument. I just don't see any evidence that this has happened to McCoy yet. His problem last year was mental. Hesitance to hit the hole due to his not having faith that there would BE a hole most of the time. Mental hesitancy based on lackluster offensive line personnel does not equal "falling off the age cliff" to me. But we can agree to disagree.

Beane said Shady is coming back, and he doesn’t seem like a guy to go back on his word without cause. So unlike most disagreements, we should have an answer after next season as to Shady’s ability...I’m rooting for him and you.

[njbuff]

If the Dolphins are "Losing for Lawrence"........................

 

the Bills should go out and acquire Drake from the Dolphins and be done with it.

 

Drake is believed to want out of Miami, so it wouldn't cost the Bills much to get him.

[formerlyofCtown]

I think the Shady haters are abusing the same stuff as the JA haters.  Smoke away.

[LSHMEAB]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know if third down back is the right characterizatuon, but a different role in the offense might make sense.  Making McCoy more of a primary target in the offense, using more west coast principles, probably stresses the defense significantly.  This ties in with the notion that Allen needs to go with the shorter option more often, to boost his completion percentage (also a west coast idea). 

Yeah. I agree with this but I'll bite the bullet and offer a slight critique of Allen. He not only needs to check down more often, but also work on the timing. Just checking down does nothing if you don't give the back/tight end/whatever a chance to run with it. EJ and Trent Edwards were checkdown machines but they always seem to get guys killed. Allen didn't lead his receivers to destruction like those two. I'll give him that. But he was often a bit late or slightly off target. If he can get that down, it'll be a big deal.

 

Shady. I just don't know. From my vantage point, he appears to be done, but he pretty much NEVER had a lane. I think he's still respected around the league and teams keyed on him. Combine that with an atrocious run blocking unit, and there is a CHANCE he could have a productive 2019 with OL improvement. I expect him to be on the roster, so we should find out.

[row_33]

19 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I think the Shady haters are abusing the same stuff as the JA haters.  Smoke away.

 

Shady was the past, JA is the future.

 

You can like the future and put zero reliance on the past.

 

 

[billsfan89]

Personally if I were the GM I would waive him. 7 million in cap savings is huge and I would rather spend that money elsewhere and draft a RB and get a mid-level free agent who would cost much less. BUT if you are going to keep him then I think he is better served as a uber third down back. Draft a young guy for early downs, use Ivory (if you don't cut him) for short yardage, and have Shady only be in on 2nd and long and 3rd down. Use him similar to how NOLA uses Kamura. 

 

Overall I think Shady can be effective if his role is dramatically shifted, but if the Bills think they can get one more year out of him as a full time back they are sadly mistaken. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

Would we  re-purpose his salary too?

 

 

...therein lies the REAL question.....pretty tall tariff for one dimensional re-purposing with no guarantees for what would most likely be his last year....so do you look farther ahead??.......

[Mr. WEO]

42 of his 161 (26%) rushing plays were for zero or negative yardage.  Catching the ball behind the LOS is hardly foreign territory for him at this point in his career.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know if third down back is the right characterizatuon, but a different role in the offense might make sense.  Making McCoy more of a primary target in the offense, using more west coast principles, probably stresses the defense significantly.  This ties in with the notion that Allen needs to go with the shorter option more often, to boost his completion percentage (also a west coast idea). 

There's gotta be a way Daboll can use him like Belichick uses White?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

Pretty sure using the term "re-purpose" is a sign of low T.

[Mat68]

If he is back in 2019 I think it would have to be in a role player capacity.  Buffalo should not enter the season depending on McCoy for their rushing attack. A younger FA and a rookie need to be added.  Utilized in an uptempo spread out package would play to his strengths.  Like how NE uses white.q

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

Shady was the past, JA is the future.

 

You can like the future and put zero reliance on the past.

 

 

I still think Shady has a couple good years left.  Ill take one of em.  Dont get me wrong, I think we need to draft a RB after the second unless someone spectacular is there in the 2nd.

[Spielman]

10 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Draft Holyfield in the 3rd and forget about Shady. 

My thoughts exactly .  Or Montgomery 

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. I agree with this but I'll bite the bullet and offer a slight critique of Allen. He not only needs to check down more often, but also work on the timing. Just checking down does nothing if you don't give the back/tight end/whatever a chance to run with it. EJ and Trent Edwards were checkdown machines but they always seem to get guys killed. Allen didn't lead his receivers to destruction like those two. I'll give him that. But he was often a bit late or slightly off target. If he can get that down, it'll be a big deal.

 

Shady. I just don't know. From my vantage point, he appears to be done, but he pretty much NEVER had a lane. I think he's still respected around the league and teams keyed on him. Combine that with an atrocious run blocking unit, and there is a CHANCE he could have a productive 2019 with OL improvement. I expect him to be on the roster, so we should find out.

I think what you say is correct, certainly about Allen. That's what I saw on his short balls. I think it's a concentration issue.  And recognition.  But you describe the problem well. 

 

As for Shady, I didn't think he looked different in 2018. I really think he had very few opportunities. People keep talking about how Belichick uses his backs, and Shady is still better than those backs the Pat's use. Its more about scheme.   I think that is on Daboll.  And that has to do with whether Daboll can create some kind of passing offense generally.  

 

 

[LeGOATski]

Go full Madden and moved McCoy to slot receiver.

 

Just move him around everywhere. It'll be fun.