Stephon Gilmore - first team AP All-Pro

[thebandit27]

12 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

 

Quick google proves you wrong:

Jeffery pulled down a diving catch in the second quarter that Foles threaded between safety Patrick Chung and Gilmore, the Patriots’ corner who played three seasons with Jeffery with the Gamecocks after coming to Columbia as part of a program-changing recruiting class under Steve Spurrier.

 

Yeah, I’m sure it wasn’t Gilmore’s fault Eagles ran at 6.1 yards a clip either. He’s the same player he was in Buffalo, except they ignore his defensive holding in New England. He is a hack in coverage, blames everyone else when he gets burned, and is putrid against the run.

 

Apparently it was only the 2nd hall in which he allowed zero catches. For the game, he allowed 3 for 19 yards:

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/02/06/how-the-patriots-secondary-graded-in-super-bowl-lii-without-malcolm-butler

 

#shredded

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yep. That's exactly as I see it. People have a hard time accepting that the Bills could have made a wise decision to let him walk AND Gilmore is among the best corners in football. It's not an either or proposition. 

 

Absolutely zero complaints with this regime's ability to evaluate and acquire cornerbacks.

 

But that really isn’t the issue - it’s a matter of opportunity cost and resource allocation - letting Gilmore walk was part of the calculus that included passing on Mahomes and trading down for Tre... that’s the issue.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Bills fans’ evaluations of Gilmore should be used as an objective yardstick of football acumen.

 

The best coach in history thought he was worth paying to be the top corner in the league, and he proved that decision to be the correct one by playing like the best corner in the league.

 

But he didn’t smile on draft day and pointed at a teammate once so...

 

Your post should never happen, for a variety of reasons including that the premise of it was debunked upthread and it’s a nonsense point in any event.  This is what I mean...

Rubbish. How many times did Gilmore make AP all pro team when he was a Bill ? Honestly, it’s possible to not like Gilmore and still know something about football. Not everyone on this board washes Patriot balls and thank goodness for that.

[BillyWhiteShows]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

But that really isn’t the issue - it’s a matter of opportunity cost and resource allocation - letting Gilmore walk was part of the calculus that included passing on Mahomes and trading down for Tre... that’s the issue.

...and a big fan of hindsight apparently

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Really? For a guy that's been a fan since 73, it's hard to believe you don't remember how quickly our fans changed their tune about Antoine Winfield when he went to Minnesota. He went from gritty and great to small and stone hands.

why would you say I would not of remembered? had not seen him mentioned. I will however admit that the memory isn't what it once was.

 

time tends to do that.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Apparently it was only the 2nd hall in which he allowed zero catches. For the game, he allowed 3 for 19 yards:

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/02/06/how-the-patriots-secondary-graded-in-super-bowl-lii-without-malcolm-butler

 

#shredded

very weird. There is another set of stats in the same article with him being targeted 5 times and giving up 1 catch for 7 yards with 2 BUs. I also read in another spot that he had two BUs. Anyway, 3 catches on 6 attempts for 19 yards is good -- 50 percent completion rate for 3.3 ypa.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

But that really isn’t the issue - it’s a matter of opportunity cost and resource allocation - letting Gilmore walk was part of the calculus that included passing on Mahomes and trading down for Tre... that’s the issue.

I'd rather have Mahomes and Gilmore FWIW, but I'm gonna avoid that rabbit hole today.?

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

But that really isn’t the issue - it’s a matter of opportunity cost and resource allocation - letting Gilmore walk was part of the calculus that included passing on Mahomes and trading down for Tre... that’s the issue.

Not really. It had something to do with drafting White and that can be a sound strategy. Passing on Mahomes was / is an ( organizational) issue but it had zero to do with Gilmore .

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The badmouthing of Gilmore when he was on the Bills was insane. He’s always been a very good and often great corner. Yes, he got too many penalties but many of them were unwarranted. 

 

I will say.....he’s nothing special when he’s playing with a club for a hand.  

 

 

?

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

why would you say I would not of remembered? had not seen him mentioned. I will however admit that the memory isn't what it once was.

 

time tends to do that.

No intention of coming at you personally for memory issues. Just pointing out that as fans, we do tend to change our tune on players once they're no longer part of the team.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'd rather have Mahomes and Gilmore FWIW, but I'm gonna avoid that rabbit hole today.?

And most fans would concur with this sentiment regardless of their dislike / liking of Gilmore 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Not really. It had something to do with drafting White and that can be a sound strategy. Passing on Mahomes was / is an ( organizational) issue but it had zero to do with Gilmore .

I also think that short of a franchise tag, which the Bills would never have done (and I don't even know if they could have done it that year), there was no way he was going to resign with Buffalo. He was moving on regardless. 

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I care about this message board and its overall quality. Individual players that are no longer Bills though? Nah. Happily moved on to the current team.

 

No I think you care about Gilmore. If you didn’t you wouldn’t post your nonsense every page. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

No intention of coming at you personally for memory issues. Just pointing out that as fans, we do tend to change our tune on players once they're no longer part of the team.

lets put it this way. many players, as you've said, tarred and feathered, many. I too am guilty of such. maybe not so harshly, but am none the less. not all, but most. I'll catch a lot of hell (not that it bothers me, like water on a ducks back) for it but I was never on big stuff like the majority and still have nothing bad to say about him. he was one of my favorite players when at alabama and was stoked when he was drafted by the bills. no need to go any further, points have been taken.

 

as for coming at me personally, never crossed my mind, we're good man.

[nedboy7]

10 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

...and a big fan of hindsight apparently

 

Ooooh. The hindsight card. Well played kid. 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

He was always a very good corner. He had a rough stretch of 5 games his final year some of which was on him but a lot of which was on breakdowns in Rex's laughable scheme. He wad bordering top 10 when he was here, he had a slow first month in New England and has been all but elite ever since. 

 

Bills fans never warmed to him. I have always believed it was the draft day thing. But he was one of the best players on the team throughout his time here. 

And the draft day thing was a total myth. He was not pissed about the Bills at all, he was being reflective of getting here to being a top ten pick after working his whole life for it, and is a quiet guy a lot of the time when he is not on the field.

[Magox]

I think we need to Unify as a fanbase and nothing unites us Bills fans as much as talking about Sammy Watkins.  Let's talk about him.

[BillyWhiteShows]

7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Ooooh. The hindsight card. Well played kid. 

 

Only because he already took the weak “you start multiple threads” card, first 

[HappyDays]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Eh? Where did you get that from? This thread ia mainly saying Gilmore is good, always has been good and was under appreciated by Bills fans while he was here. 

 

Admittedly I skimmed the thread but seemed like people were complaining we let him go. He is a good corner when he tries, I'm still quite happy he's not on the team because he gave up too often for my liking. Patriots fans hated him last year. This year he turned it around. I don't think he was underappreciated here. Most fans understand he played decently but never reached the level where his attitude was worth it. I can accept a diva on the team but they better be an elite talent. He was just above average while he was here. Very similar to Sammy Watkins honestly. JMO.

[Kelly the Dog]

17 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I will say.....he’s nothing special when he’s playing with a club for a hand.  

 

 

?

Whaddya talking about?! He's one of the best club-players of all-time, including JPP! And Tom Dempsey's hero!

[nedboy7]

Let’s all just calm down and consider that if Allen was to play CB he would be ten times better than Gillmore.   

[Magox]

Gilmore is an excellent corner and has always been good.  Very physical in coverage and played very good man to man. 

 

The reason why he is hated on from portions of the fanbase is because he came off as aloof, he never took blame for his play and he wasnt always the most willing tackler and when you combine that with a franchise that had never whiffed the playoffs while he was here, this is a common reaction that you would expect from any NFL fanbase.

 

Going to the Pats didnt do him any favors either.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Magox

[BuffaloHokie13]

55 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You were wrong, but that's OK. I was completely unaware of Virgil's thread when I began this and actually came across the news about the All-Pro team outside of this board. I was less interested in what Virgil was interested in (the lack of Bills) anyway than in who actually made it.

Fair 'nuff. Carry on!

43 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Did you just call me fat?

Only in certain light.

[HappyDays]

26 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

But that really isn’t the issue - it’s a matter of opportunity cost and resource allocation - letting Gilmore walk was part of the calculus that included passing on Mahomes and trading down for Tre... that’s the issue.

 

Passing on Mahomes and all the other QBs for that matter rests on Pegula alone. We had a new head coach and a lame duck GM. There was never a chance a 1st round QB would be taken. You can trace that back to the decision to hire Rex Ryan and therefore creating organizational instability. Letting Gilmore walk had nothing to do with it.

[BillyWhiteShows]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Fair 'nuff. Carry on!

Only in certain light.

 

Its 2019, the term is big-boned” not f**!

[LSHMEAB]

5 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Let’s all just calm down and consider that if Allen was to play CB he would be ten times better than Gillmore.   

Probably intercept every pass thrown his way and either return it for a TD himself or throw a perfect lateral that results in a TD provided the guy he throws it to doesn't screw it up.

[st pete gogolak]

Honestly, is there a single Bills fan who misses this guy?  I've never seen a player avoid contact like Gilmore did in the year before free agency.  It was a total joke. 

[Boatdrinks]

21 minutes ago, Magox said:

I think we need to Unify as a fanbase and nothing unites us Bills fans as much as talking about Sammy Watkins.  Let's talk about him.

Oddly enough although I never cared for Stephon, I liked Sammy and still do. Of course, that would end if he ever wore a Pats uniform. 

[Rico]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He's much maligned because he didn't do his most important job..........which was to draft and develop a QB.

 

Nix failure to do so is the reason for the most recent tear down.

 

Like him or not Whaley was like the ball in the pinball machine........lead into harms way by the outgoing Nix and left to draft the best available QB in a wing-and-prayer class of QB's........and then batted around between 3 head coaches orders and a new owner's ignorance(Dareus' contract was on Terry Pegula).

 

What Buddy didn't understand is that in the modern NFL you get the QB first.........they can play 15-18 years..........and then you build around them.

 

Since then teams like the Seahawks have made this into a league-wide model for how to handle your business.

 

 

Agreed. Fortunately for us, Beane understands this,   and executed a plan to get his franchise QB. McD of course first had to wait for Beane’s dim-witted predecessor to be shown the door.

 

As for Nix, I do think Gilmore and yes Dareus were very good picks in the 1st round, but he would’ve much been better served trying to get a QB instead. I particularly feel bad for MD, he couldve been an all-time great but he got picked by the wrong team at the wrong time.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Rico

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Honestly, is there a single Bills fan who misses this guy?  I've never seen a player avoid contact like Gilmore did in the year before free agency.  It was a total joke. 

That all i recall of him.
and maybe how he looked back at the safeties when someone got past him.which they did.
Highly skilled player

 whom i still loathe.

 Tre is my kind of player.

and he hits. Last week was proof

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

Agreed. Fortunately for us, Beane understands this,   and executed a plan to get his franchise QB. McD of course first had to wait for Beane’s dim-witted predecessor to be shown the door.

 

As for Nix, I do think Gilmour and yes Dareus were very good picks in the 1st round, but he would’ve much been better served trying to get a QB instead. I particularly feel bad for MD, he couldve been an all-time great but he got picked by the wrong team at the wrong time.

Bills have ruined more than one players career.... tis true enough

[vincec]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Whaley sucks.  Too bad Gilmore didn’t smile on draft day!!!

Nix.

[gordong]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

^^^

^^^

^^^

^^^

 

The dishonor roll of embittered Bills fans hating on ex-Bills who wanted to play on winning teams or wanted to be paid market value for their skills surfaces every time such a player does well on his new team.  Maybe you fools should focus your bitterness on the Bills ownership, front office, and coaching staff who keep letting talented players leave while fielding a roster filled with non-NFL caliber players in the name of some cliche like "it all about the process" when it's really all about how big a profit the billionaire owner rakes in.

 

 

Who's better?

 

 

It's not Tre's "persona".  It's that White plays for the Bills currently and Gilmore no longer does.  When the Bills decline to re-sign White and he moves on (as they've done for all their top corners over the years), the same cretins will surface with the same hatred for him as they now have for Gilmore. 

so...   ***** him....

[Nuncha]

Glad he is gone and White is here....

[Rico]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Really? For a guy that's been a fan since 73, it's hard to believe you don't remember how quickly our fans changed their tune about Antoine Winfield when he went to Minnesota. He went from gritty and great to small and stone hands.

I don't know about that. All through Lil Antoine's time on the Bills, I thought he was a good tackler with marginal pass coverage skills and zero playmaking skills who was beloved by kids and other vertically-challenged Bills fans. Then he went to the Vikings and became great, just a stunning turnaround.

[ProcessTruster]

5 hours ago, napmaster said:

Can't pay Gillmore when you give Dareus $100M.  I sure miss Whaley.

bingo.   well said

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Agreed. Fortunately for us, Beane understands this,   and executed a plan to get his franchise QB. McD of course first had to wait for Beane’s dim-witted predecessor to be shown the door.

 

As for Nix, I do think Gilmore and yes Dareus were very good picks in the 1st round, but he would’ve much been better served trying to get a QB instead. I particularly feel bad for MD, he couldve been an all-time great but he got picked by the wrong team at the wrong time.

 

I give McBeane credit for being the first Bills regime of the century to understand that you have to actually develop young players.

 

The Bills drafted a bunch of 20-21 year old underclassmen in round one during the drought and just set them loose in a rudderless organization.

[BillsVet]

Reading some replies here, you might believe Gilmore personally visited select fans and gave them the finger on his way to New England.  

 

Guy was voted First Team All-Pro and it's a good topic for discussion.  

 

Threads like this bring out some of the best and also some of the worst posters.   

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, napmaster said:

Can't pay Gillmore when you give Dareus $100M.  I sure miss Whaley.

Wrong. They could have paid him.  They could have tagged him.  They could have extended his deal the year prior.

Bad decision by Whaley not to extend.  Worse decision by McD to not bring him back.

29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I give McBeane credit for being the first Bills regime of the century to understand that you have to actually develop young players.

 

The Bills drafted a bunch of 20-21 year old underclassmen in round one during the drought and just set them loose in a rudderless organization.

McD is the one who chose not to bring back Gilmore, Woods, and gave up on Dareus and Watkins.  So he is as much to blame as anyone.  I wanted Gilmore and was upset Whaley didn't extend him after his fourth year.  There was no reason to give TT the money he got.  They could have signed Gilmore instead and made TT prove it another year. Same mistake with Fitz earlier.  As for Woods, they were priced out of the market for him.  I have no revisionist history on that move. LA paid him like a star and he was at best a complimentary piece in Buffalo.  

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Wrong. They could have paid him.  They could have tagged him.  They could have extended his deal the year prior.

Bad decision by Whaley not to extend.  Worse decision by McD to not bring him back.

McD is the one who chose not to bring back Gilmore, Woods, and gave up on Dareus and Watkins.  So he is as much to blame as anyone.  I wanted Gilmore and was upset Whaley didn't extend him after his fourth year.  There was no reason to give TT the money he got.  They could have signed Gilmore instead and made TT prove it another year. Same mistake with Fitz earlier.  As for Woods, they were priced out of the market for him.  I have no revisionist history on that move. LA paid him like a star and he was at best a complimentary piece in Buffalo.  

 

 

You are correct........they certainly could have paid Gilmore.    

 

And yes I've also been critical of McBeane for tearing it down.    It wasn't necessary.   Hopefully it works out but the team they inherited wasn't really tear down material.   I thought then and still think they took the easy way out.  Lot's of built-in excuses when tearing it down and the easy part is getting back to mediocrity(which is where they are now).   Hopefully it works out. 

[Reader]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

Gilmore is an excellent corner and has always been good.  Very physical in coverage and played very good man to man. 

 

The reason why he is hated on from portions of the fanbase is because he came off as aloof, he never took blame for his play and he wasnt always the most willing tackler and when you combine that with a franchise that had never whiffed the playoffs while he was here, this is a common reaction that you would expect from any NFL fanbase.

 

Going to the Pats didnt do him any favors either.

 

I wonder if he would have been worth his contract if he stayed here. Didn't he improve in NE, when Patricia/Belichick basically gave up on trying to make Gilmore play zone and man and exclusively focus on man to man coverage? I'm not sure the same result would have happened here.