Why is the punter always the PK holder on the Bills?

[PromoTheRobot]

I have to believe the turnover at punter on the Bills this year had some impact on Stephen Hauschka's kicking numbers. Every time we changed punters that new player would assume the place kick holder duty. But why? Why not a backup QB?  Wasn't Frank Reich the holder during the Bills SB years? In the name of consistency, why couldn't Matt Barkley be the holder? 

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have to believe the turnover at punter on the Bills this year had some impact on Stephen Hauschka's kicking numbers. Every time we changed punters that new player would assume the place kick holder duty. But why? Why not a backup QB?  Wasn't Frank Reich the holder during the Bills SB years? In the name of consistency, why couldn't Matt Barkley be the holder? 

 

He hasn't even been coming close to hitting the end zone on kickoffs.  I think his leg is just dead.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

He hasn't even been coming close to hitting the end zone on kickoffs.  I think his leg is just dead.

 

He hit the end zones all year before that cheap shot. But that's not what this thread is about.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He hit the end zones all year before that cheap shot. But that's not what this thread is about.

 

I don't recall him hitting the end zones prior to the cheap shot.  You cite the PK being a reason for his crappy kicking this year.  I thought suggesting another reason would be better than simply disagreeing.  Not a hijacking attempt, by any means.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't recall him hitting the end zones prior to the cheap shot.  You cite the PK being a reason for his crappy kicking this year.  I thought suggesting another reason would be better than simply disagreeing.  Not a hijacking attempt, by any means.

 

He wasn't a crappy kicker. Why do you think they call him "Hausch Money?"

[RoyBatty is alive]

Have you ever been to football practice, the punter and FG kickers hang out together for hours on end, only natural for the punter to hold, gives them something to practice beyond kicking.

 

And ask Romo about holding for the FG. Backup QBs have other things to do during practice

Edited January 3, 2019 by RoyBatty is alive

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't recall him hitting the end zones prior to the cheap shot.  You cite the PK being a reason for his crappy kicking this year.  I thought suggesting another reason would be better than simply disagreeing.  Not a hijacking attempt, by any means.

I think he's still injured tbh. That Miami kick he left short was one he nails w/ 15 yards to go usually. 

[Optometric Insight]

The punter is the holder for the majority, if not all, NFL teams. Whether that or something else affected H$ later in the season, tough to say. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He hit the end zones all year before that cheap shot. But that's not what this thread is about.

he sure did. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I really just think it is because they have nothing else to do. Since the kicker, long snapper, and punter don't have to participate in all of the football drills in practice they can go off, be their own entity, and master the timing of the snap hold kick process. Having a quarterback do it, when he has a million other things to worry about, is probably part of the thought process for coaches when they started doing this.  

 

Back in the day more quarterbacks did this, but it wasn't such a specialized skill. Now it has to have very specific timing etc. It needs to be perfect every time. Quarterbacks don't have time for that. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[Gugny]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He wasn't a crappy kicker. Why do you think they call him "Hausch Money?"

 

"Crappy," was unfair.  He definitely wasn't crappy.  Just less automatic than last year.

 

4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

he sure did. 

 

2017 - 51.32% touchbacks

2018 - 45. 45% touchbacks (30th).

[TigerJ]

The turnover for Buffalo at punter is highly unusual.  Punters are the usual PK holder on most teams for two reasons.  First is the relative stability at the position most of the time.  Second is the fact that punters, more than anyone else on the team are accustomed to catching long snaps.  I expect next season, Buffalo will continue the practice of using their punter as PK holder, and they will have the same punter through the entire season.

 

The turnover at PK holder obviously had an adverse effect on Hauschka's kicking, but I can't help but think that something else is going on.  Kickers typically have a long life span in the NFL.  Their legs don't just fall off after 10-12 years.  I'm not saying Buffalo should retain him.  I think that's a decision they should and will make in training camp next summer.  

Edited January 3, 2019 by TigerJ

[whatdrought]

Tony Romo taught teams to have nobodies be the holder. Don’t want the guy who might be playing QB to be the one who ruins the season cause he’s a dumbass. 

 

?

 

Mostly kidding- I agree with those who said it’s about time at practice. They’re just natural bedfellows. 

[Boatdrinks]

Reduced practice time in the CBA changed this for a lot of teams. No time available for backup QBs to be practicing with teams. The P is a natural choice. It would seem the Bills issue is at P. Fix that, and they’ll fix the PK holder problem. Hauschka’s problems stemmed from the turnover at P combined with that cheap shot blindside hit he took vs Jets. He’ll be fine after the offseason. 

[reddogblitz]

Just now, whatdrought said:

Tony Romo taught teams to have nobodies be the holder. Don’t want the guy who might be playing QB to be the one who ruins the season cause he’s a dumbass. 

 

?

 

 

I was at that game rooting for the Hawks.  Looked like it was over for us, then Tony first bobbles the snap and then while trying to run it in got show string tackled short of the goal line by my favorite guy (Jordon Babineaux, the Cowboy killer).    Jordon also intercepted a Blue Dreadslow (Dallas again) pass in 2005 and ran out of bounds in range for the kicker to win on a last second FG.

 

Two of my favorite non Bills in person football experiences. 

[gobills1212]

Its a skill that would be evaluated at some point. With the qb turnover this year, maybe its better the punter. That said, if they had a bqb with the skillz, then im sure hed get a shake. Punters usually handle it, have experience and thus get the gig. 

[Albany,n.y.]

The backup QB turned over as much as the punter this year.  Next year Corey Bojorquez will be the punter the entire year and hold.  

In earlier days the backup QB held for the Bills.  Yes, Frank Reich was the holder during the Super Bowl years, but back then there was a lot more stability on the roster with the same K, H, LS staying around for years.  The only change during the Super seasons was Christie replacing Norwood.  

 

Also, I thought the Bills should have IRd Hauschka right after the Jets game & brought in someone who was 100%.  Hauschka was clearly injured. 

[letsgoteam]

Hauschka missed his first FG attempt in Baltimore and then went 16/16 for his FG attempts until he missed a 55 yd FG in the Miami. He did miss his only XP earlier that game. The only thing that changed was that Darr started holding for Hauschka that game. Then in the next game he got his cheap shot against the Jets. I blame Darr and the cheap shot. I just hope that cheap hasnt shortened Hauschka's career.

 

It would be great if Barkley maybe became the holder (did he by any chance hold in college at any point, I do not follow USC)

[DC Tom]

37 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have to believe the turnover at punter on the Bills this year had some impact on Stephen Hauschka's kicking numbers. Every time we changed punters that new player would assume the place kick holder duty. But why? Why not a backup QB?  Wasn't Frank Reich the holder during the Bills SB years? In the name of consistency, why couldn't Matt Barkley be the holder? 

 

Keep in mind, they had no consistency at QB either, less even than at punter.

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

They should have an athletic ST guy be the holder. You could probably execute some cool fakes. Maybe you could use a guy that could run or pass. It would have been cool to use Joe Webb

[C.Biscuit97]

The kickers just hang out with each other and do nothing most of practice. So they just naturally become the holders.  I do think there is an advantage to having a qb be the holder though.

[CowgirlsFan]

38 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Have you ever been to football practice, the punter and FG kickers hang out together for hours on end, only natural for the punter to hold, gives them something to practice beyond kicking.

 

And ask Romo about holding for the FG. Backup QBs have other things to do during practice

Must you remind me ??

 

Oddly when the Cowboys play on Saturday vs the. Seahawks it will mark another anniversary to the day of the botched hold.

[PromoTheRobot]

41 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

2017 - 51.32% touchbacks

2018 - 45. 45% touchbacks (30th).

 

You are assuming the plan is to get a touchback every time. There are times kicking it short is better.

[MrEpsYtown]

19 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Next year Corey Bojorquez will be the punter the entire year and hold.  

 

I think Cory Carter will give him a run for his money next year. I think it will be a competition. 

[apuszczalowski]

I would assume the reasoning is because they want another mostly special teaser do it and the punter has no other role at that time. I cant think of a team that doesnt use the punter.

 

The bigger question would be why cant the regular centre also be the long snapper? Every team ends up using 2 roster spots on a guy doing a similar job. Wouldn't it be advantageous to have the regular centre be used to also snap during a punt?

[Royale with Cheese]

54 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think he's still injured tbh. That Miami kick he left short was one he nails w/ 15 yards to go usually. 

 

I've seen him hit the net, which I believe is 10 yards behind the goal post on a 54 yard field goal.  I think he's definitely still hurt.

[freddyjj]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have to believe the turnover at punter on the Bills this year had some impact on Stephen Hauschka's kicking numbers. Every time we changed punters that new player would assume the place kick holder duty. But why? Why not a backup QB?  Wasn't Frank Reich the holder during the Bills SB years? In the name of consistency, why couldn't Matt Barkley be the holder? 

 

28 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The backup QB turned over as much as the punter this year.  Next year Corey Bojorquez will be the punter the entire year and hold.  

In earlier days the backup QB held for the Bills.  Yes, Frank Reich was the holder during the Super Bowl years, but back then there was a lot more stability on the roster with the same K, H, LS staying around for years.  The only change during the Super seasons was Christie replacing Norwood.  

 

Also, I thought the Bills should have IRd Hauschka right after the Jets game & brought in someone who was 100%.  Hauschka was clearly injured. 

When Christie showed up in 1992 Jeff Mohr the P became the FG holder

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have to believe the turnover at punter on the Bills this year had some impact on Stephen Hauschka's kicking numbers. Every time we changed punters that new player would assume the place kick holder duty. But why? Why not a backup QB?  Wasn't Frank Reich the holder during the Bills SB years? In the name of consistency, why couldn't Matt Barkley be the holder? 

 

 

I believe this was discussed in an earlier thread on punters, but it really started as the new CBA kicked in limiting practice time.  Prior to that after the main practice was complete the back-up QB, kicker, and special teams unit would work on kicks and punts.  As the time was reduced - it was much more effective to allow the long snapper, punter, and kicker to go and work by themselves for 90% of practice getting in more kicks and then only bringing the entire units together for limited plays.  I believe this has led to much sloppier special teams in general around the league.

 

Therefore you now keep the back-up QB with the team doing regular drills and the punters and kickers can get in their work.  Most teams still have an emergency holder (either back-up QB or WR) in case of injury, but they get very limited snaps.

 

I do believe the change in punter had a major impact on his kicking, along with the injury, and the number of practice kicks to get the new punters ready to go.  It also seemed there were some very difficult wind conditions- for example at home against Miami the last week - one way the kick offs for both teams going into the wind were coming up at the 15-25 yard line.  Going the other way the ball was getting into the end zone.  Punts and the FG were also coming up short that way, while punts the other way were much better.  There were other games like this where he seemed to come up short kicking into the wind.

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

I would assume the reasoning is because they want another mostly special teaser do it and the punter has no other role at that time. I cant think of a team that doesnt use the punter.

 

The bigger question would be why cant the regular centre also be the long snapper? Every team ends up using 2 roster spots on a guy doing a similar job. Wouldn't it be advantageous to have the regular centre be used to also snap during a punt?

 

 

Nope - practice time is the biggest issue.  Better to have a specific LS and then them practice and just use someone as an emergency- so you don’t waste limited practice time.

[Mr. WEO]

19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You are assuming the plan is to get a touchback every time. There are times kicking it short is better.

 

Those "times" were unique to the Bills in 2018?

 

The Bills were 10th worst in kickoff returns, up from 17th the year before.  If that was by design, it wasn't a very good plan.

 

And I have seen it repeated many times that the problems with the Kicker was with his holds.  Any actual evidence these were bad holds?

[BringBackFlutie]

30 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I've seen him hit the net, which I believe is 10 yards behind the goal post on a 54 yard field goal.  I think he's definitely still hurt.

I think you're right.  Hauschka isn't only known for his accuracy.  His identity is probably more about his consistency on long FGs.  Didn't he hold the record for most 50+ yarders made without a miss, and also most 54+ yarders made in a single game?  

 

I don't think you go from that to being physically unable to kick >40 yards for the rest of the season.  He's not really old, either, so his leg can't suddenly be shot.  It's GOT to be an injury.

Edited January 3, 2019 by BringBackFlutie

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BringBackFlutie said:

I think you're right.  Hauschka isn't only known for his accuracy.  His identity is probably more about his consistency on long FGs.  Didn't he hold the record for most 50+ yarders made without a miss, and also most 54+ yarders made in a single game?  

 

I don't think you go from that to being physically unable to kick >40 yards for the rest of the season.  He's not really old, either, so his leg can't suddenly be shot.  It's GOT to be an injury.

 

He reached immediately for his back after he got cheap shotted.  If that lower back is still bad, that would absolutely take away range of motion and power.

[from_dunkirk]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have to believe the turnover at punter on the Bills this year had some impact on Stephen Hauschka's kicking numbers. Every time we changed punters that new player would assume the place kick holder duty. But why? Why not a backup QB?  Wasn't Frank Reich the holder during the Bills SB years? In the name of consistency, why couldn't Matt Barkley be the holder? 

 

 

The search function in the top right corner is your friend. The same question was asked here a month ago. People have been suspended for posting without checking first.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, from_dunkirk said:

 

 

The search function in the top right corner is your friend. The same question was asked here a month ago. People have been suspended for posting without checking first.

 

 

Seriously? Aren't we taking things a little too seriously? You tell me you search a topic every time  before you post?

[MJS]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Have you ever been to football practice, the punter and FG kickers hang out together for hours on end, only natural for the punter to hold, gives them something to practice beyond kicking.

 

And ask Romo about holding for the FG. Backup QBs have other things to do during practice

 

Yeah, this is the reason. A backup QB is getting practice reps as a QB and spends time in the QB room during meetings. A kicker and punter can spend ALL their time and ALL their focus on kicking and holding.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

"Crappy," was unfair.  He definitely wasn't crappy.  Just less automatic than last year.

 

 

2017 - 51.32% touchbacks

2018 - 45. 45% touchbacks (30th).

 

I think the touchbacks thing was part strategy too. I am sure Crossman talked about when he did a presser during camp. They felt good about their coverage unit's ability to pin people deeper than the 25 and so they didn't always feel the need to kick it out of the endzone. I might have totally imagined that but I am sure I recall it. 

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He reached immediately for his back after he got cheap shotted.  If that lower back is still bad, that would absolutely take away range of motion and power.

 

Agreed. Not sure why they didn't IR him immediately. 

[WhoTom]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You are assuming the plan is to get a touchback every time. There are times kicking it short is better.

 

^ This.  Anyone know the stats on KO returns that ended inside the 25?

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the touchbacks thing was part strategy too. I am sure Crossman talked about when he did a presser during camp. They felt good about their coverage unit's ability to pin people deeper than the 25 and so they didn't always feel the need to kick it out of the endzone. I might have totally imagined that but I am sure I recall it. 

 

O h I believe it, you know which teams does that often and quite well, the Pats, they kick it to one side, to about the 5 yard line, real high allowing the team to get downfield.

2 hours ago, CowgirlsFan said:

Must you remind me ??

 

Oddly when the Cowboys play on Saturday vs the. Seahawks it will mark another anniversary to the day of the botched hold.

Poor guy, all that he did that is what is remembered for.

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

^ This.  Anyone know the stats on KO returns that ended inside the 25?

 

 

 

I couldn't find a lot of decent kickoff stats, but what I did find is that Haushka kicked off 66 times.  34 were returned for 754 yards - which is a 22-yard return average.  I don't know where that stacks up vs. the rest of the league and it's more of a Special Teams issue than a Haushka issue, for sure.

[Misterbluesky]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He reached immediately for his back after he got cheap shotted.  If that lower back is still bad, that would absolutely take away range of motion and power.

Yes sir....