Virgil Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 In the NBA, you hear about the ridiculous practice routines some of the greats have. I think Kobe wouldn’t start warm-ups until he hit like 500 free throws. In any case, the muscle memory or whatever is a pledged method for success in the NBA. In the NFL, I usually here about coaches working on players footwork or release point to affect accuracy. My question is this, what players have been know to increase their accuracy over the years and what did they do? For some of the greats that I remember early in their career like Brady and Ben, they started them in a more controlled offense where they’d throw to one read while averaging around 150 yards per game. Simple throws, low turnovers, basic. Then, over time, things expanded and it almost felt like confidence is how they grew them. It’s just an interest concept to me, teaching accuracy. So many of these guys have been throwing the football since they were 5 years old and now we want them to take a step forward in their early 20’s. It’s happened, I’m just curious for stories that made it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I tend to think accuracy issues are largely mental and incredibly difficult to overcome. I would posit that only confidence can dramatically reform a QB's accuracy issue. I understand the elements of footwork, etc. just as I understand proper form for free throws. I just think accuracy is one of those things that you either have or you don't. Allen just might be someone good enough in other areas(mobility, arm strength) to overcome lack of precision passing. I saw glimpses of what could be yesterday. He's going to have to get A LITTLE more accurate, but it won't be by leaps and bounds and it may not need to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) Basketball is definitely muscle memory for shot mechanics. I would think a QBs throwing motion is also muscle memory so reps would help in general. But accuracy I'm not sure. Particularly when it comes to making throws on the run and from weird angles a QB has to deal with. My opinion is that accuracy for QBs is more art than science. Edited December 3, 2018 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I think the biggest issue is ability vs. consistency. Some guys can make throws, but not consistently- this seems to be where practice is necessary. Other guys just can't make the throw and usually it isn't going to be teachable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 IMO, this issue about his accuracy has become so overblown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, billsfan1959 said: IMO, this issue about his accuracy has become so overblown... This isn’t about Allen specially nor am I mentioning him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I think it's incredibly more difficult to be an accurate QB than be a 90% free-throw shooter. So many different variables into every single pass during a game as opposed to shooting at a stationary target at a fixed distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, Virgil said: This isn’t about Allen specially nor am I mentioning him. Maybe not; however, my guess is that every one who posts in this thread will be referring to Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, stony said: I think it's incredibly more difficult to be an accurate QB than be a 90% free-throw shooter. So many different variables into every single pass during a game as opposed to shooting at a stationary target at a fixed distance. Like hitting a moving target with wind conditions 40 yards down field? It’s really crazy when you think about it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Since you mention FT’s, it sure helps where the rim and shooter are in the exact same place every time, and there are no 300 Monsters trying to take your head off! (And some guys still can’t make FT’s at a reasonable rate.) As was noted above, confidence is one of the most underrated factors in sports. Look at David Duval or Chuck Knoblauch for the extreme cases (or maybe Charles Barkley if you’re brave enough!). There’s a lot to technique and all the other stuff, but even if you do all the right things, you need confidence. (My second serve knows the difference!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I tend to think accuracy issues are largely mental and incredibly difficult to overcome. I would posit that only confidence can dramatically reform a QB's accuracy issue. I understand the elements of footwork, etc. just as I understand proper form for free throws. I just think accuracy is one of those things that you either have or you don't. Allen just might be someone good enough in other areas(mobility, arm strength) to overcome lack of precision passing. I saw glimpses of what could be yesterday. He's going to have to get A LITTLE more accurate, but it won't be by leaps and bounds and it may not need to. ...QB's accuracy is under extremely more pressure when factoring <5 seconds to go through reads, progressions and THEN make the accurate throw......look at the luxury of time a hoopster has when shooting free throws...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, stony said: I think it's incredibly more difficult to be an accurate QB than be a 90% free-throw shooter. So many different variables into every single pass during a game as opposed to shooting at a stationary target at a fixed distance. 15 minutes ago, Virgil said: Like hitting a moving target with wind conditions 40 yards down field? It’s really crazy when you think about it Free-throw shooters also don't have 6'4" 300lb men running after them trying to drive them to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, Gugny said: Free-throw shooters also don't have 6'4" 300lb men running after them trying to drive them to the ground. Unless they are doing it all wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 15 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...QB's accuracy is under extremely more pressure when factoring <5 seconds to go through reads, progressions and THEN make the accurate throw......look at the luxury of time a hoopster has when shooting free throws...... By that logic, doesn’t it almost have to be complete muscle memory? I feel like reps and nerves get you there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Virgil said: By that logic, doesn’t it almost have to be complete muscle memory? I feel like reps and nerves get you there ...does muscle memory imply repetitive motion?......reps and nerves combined vary by situation...unless I'm misunderstanding you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, Virgil said: In the NBA, you hear about the ridiculous practice routines some of the greats have. I think Kobe wouldn’t start warm-ups until he hit like 500 free throws. In any case, the muscle memory or whatever is a pledged method for success in the NBA. In the NFL, I usually here about coaches working on players footwork or release point to affect accuracy. My question is this, what players have been know to increase their accuracy over the years and what did they do? For some of the greats that I remember early in their career like Brady and Ben, they started them in a more controlled offense where they’d throw to one read while averaging around 150 yards per game. Simple throws, low turnovers, basic. Then, over time, things expanded and it almost felt like confidence is how they grew them. It’s just an interest concept to me, teaching accuracy. So many of these guys have been throwing the football since they were 5 years old and now we want them to take a step forward in their early 20’s. It’s happened, I’m just curious for stories that made it happen. I personally do not think they are even in the same ballpark. Free throws - no matter what court are all identical- same with like the 3 point line. Baskets are the same height, everything is identical. Therefore once you get proper muscle control - you should be able to repeat that over and over. Passing - every field is somewhat different with the pitch (slope from mid field to the sidelines), the weather, and the throws. Therefore every time you step on a field it will be different from the last time you played. The footwork, hips, release point, etc. all play a role in accuracy as far as I can tell. The goal is to get as much of that consistent so that when variables start to change you can get the throw off without thinking. I think the more more you can control and standardize - the more consistent you will be and that seems to come with time - looking at several QBs about year 3 and 4. That seems to be the point for many where more things fall into place and they do not have to think so much. You see it with Big Ben, Brady, Brees, Rivers, and even to a lesser degree Eli. Year 1 and 2 the completion percentage was lower and the game to game consistency was less. Then games start to balance out more with fewer ups and downs. Just a cursory glance and most QBs seem to up their completion percentage by 2-3 percent - although Brees saw a huge jump 7% on average. I would not expect JA to become a 65-70% guy like Brees, but 59-61% down the road with a higher YPA would be reasonable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) I dont think Allen will be a high completion % qb. Now I do see room for improvement. I am very impressed with his ball placement on balls in side 25 yards. Seem to be able to place it. Something Ej and Taylor didn't do. Something Fitz was spotty with. Imo it's a chemistry thing. His wrs are young and new, Allen had limited reps in preseason and was out for 4 weeks. An off season of guys catching passes from Allen will sure up somethings. Having guys who can go get the ball in the air will help too. Edited December 3, 2018 by Mat68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Virgil said: Like hitting a moving target with wind conditions 40 yards down field? It’s really crazy when you think about it we went through a few years with a QB who had no concept of throwing into the WR's well-drawn-out and practiced pattern he couldn't throw a ball to a target 40 yards away with a strong wind behind him so this is refreshing and gives hope even for 4 games of no use but improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Whether it's Basketball 3-pointers, or Golf shots, slapshots or even throwing darts, I believe that accuracy can be improved with proper technique and practice, but for an NFL QB, that will only help to a certain point. The problem an NFL QB faces is that literally every throw is a totally different set of circumstances, and you can't "muscle memory" every single throw you'll ever need to make. Can a QB become more accurate? YES. But if you're not starting from a point of good or better, you;re not going to become great or GOAT through technique and reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, wiskibreth said: Whether it's Basketball 3-pointers, or Golf shots, slapshots or even throwing darts, I believe that accuracy can be improved with proper technique and practice, but for an NFL QB, that will only help to a certain point. The problem an NFL QB faces is that literally every throw is a totally different set of circumstances, and you can't "muscle memory" every single throw you'll ever need to make. Can a QB become more accurate? YES. But if you're not starting from a point of good or better, you;re not going to become great or GOAT through technique and reps. has a QB honestly reset his throwing abilities after signing an NFL contract? I'm sure they did their best with Tebow, and it just ain't shaking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Virgil said: In the NBA, you hear about the ridiculous practice routines some of the greats have. I think Kobe wouldn’t start warm-ups until he hit like 500 free throws. In any case, the muscle memory or whatever is a pledged method for success in the NBA. In the NFL, I usually here about coaches working on players footwork or release point to affect accuracy. My question is this, what players have been know to increase their accuracy over the years and what did they do? For some of the greats that I remember early in their career like Brady and Ben, they started them in a more controlled offense where they’d throw to one read while averaging around 150 yards per game. Simple throws, low turnovers, basic. Then, over time, things expanded and it almost felt like confidence is how they grew them. It’s just an interest concept to me, teaching accuracy. So many of these guys have been throwing the football since they were 5 years old and now we want them to take a step forward in their early 20’s. It’s happened, I’m just curious for stories that made it happen. no...But with allen there is some hope because sometimes he is accurate. 10 minutes ago, wiskibreth said: Whether it's Basketball 3-pointers, or Golf shots, slapshots or even throwing darts, I believe that accuracy can be improved with proper technique and practice, but for an NFL QB, that will only help to a certain point. The problem an NFL QB faces is that literally every throw is a totally different set of circumstances, and you can't "muscle memory" every single throw you'll ever need to make. Can a QB become more accurate? YES. But if you're not starting from a point of good or better, you;re not going to become great or GOAT through technique and reps. and probably the more you practice the worse you will become--start thinking too much etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, wiskibreth said: Whether it's Basketball 3-pointers, or Golf shots, slapshots or even throwing darts, I believe that accuracy can be improved with proper technique and practice, but for an NFL QB, that will only help to a certain point. The problem an NFL QB faces is that literally every throw is a totally different set of circumstances, and you can't "muscle memory" every single throw you'll ever need to make. Can a QB become more accurate? YES. But if you're not starting from a point of good or better, you;re not going to become great or GOAT through technique and reps. While every throw has (largely) a different set of circumstances and requirements that surround it, getting experience will count for a lot. More experience = more instances of similar sets of circumstances, which leads to better placement/accuracy. It's why 'live' reps are so important, imho. Tbh, I don't think that Allen is an innately innaccurate thrower, if anything, I think he's actually very accurate. The problem being that he's accurate when he gets himself properly set, which is often not the case under game situations. Again, live reps and footwork, will go a long way to sorting it out. One thing I will say about Allen, is that I see signs that he's working on things, even when they might not come off. An example of this would be the bomb to Foster. I thought he took some off of that throw, because he didn't think Foster would get there. He just didn't get it quite right. Imho, we are likely to spend quite a few years wrangling over Allen's numbers. Last week it was only 8 from 19, which looks horrible, except you have drops, catches that get pulled back for penalties, none of which are being accounted for in the stats. This week you have the Hail Mary interception, that will skew his numbers, and yet I don't think anyone actually blames him for that, yet they will still put it into an anti argument. Apologies for falling into the trap of making this about Allen, but the first part is still relevant, imho, to any QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, row_33 said: has a QB honestly reset his throwing abilities after signing an NFL contract? I'm sure they did their best with Tebow, and it just ain't shaking out. Well, it's not a ton, but here's a some... And like I said... you can only take the improvement so far with continued experience and practice. Mathew Stafford: Roughly 60% comp early, roughly 66% of late Ryan Tannehill: <60% early, 66 lately Alex Smith <60% early, 67 last two seasons (before injury). Drew Brees, yeah, he's always been very good, but even he took his comp % from 65% up to a now godly 70+% even Pyton Manning went from 62 up to 68% in his prime years. Yeah, I know there's allot more to accuracy than completion %, but I don't have a historical database of QB over time, and what exactly led to their accuracy improvement, but it does suggest that improvement is possible. 5 minutes ago, Buddo said: While every throw has (largely) a different set of circumstances and requirements that surround it, getting experience will count for a lot. More experience = more instances of similar sets of circumstances, which leads to better placement/accuracy. It's why 'live' reps are so important, imho. Tbh, I don't think that Allen is an innately innaccurate thrower, if anything, I think he's actually very accurate. The problem being that he's accurate when he gets himself properly set, which is often not the case under game situations. Again, live reps and footwork, will go a long way to sorting it out. One thing I will say about Allen, is that I see signs that he's working on things, even when they might not come off. An example of this would be the bomb to Foster. I thought he took some off of that throw, because he didn't think Foster would get there. He just didn't get it quite right. Imho, we are likely to spend quite a few years wrangling over Allen's numbers. Last week it was only 8 from 19, which looks horrible, except you have drops, catches that get pulled back for penalties, none of which are being accounted for in the stats. This week you have the Hail Mary interception, that will skew his numbers, and yet I don't think anyone actually blames him for that, yet they will still put it into an anti argument. Apologies for falling into the trap of making this about Allen, but the first part is still relevant, imho, to any QB. No argument from me. I do believe he can get better given time, experience and reps, but lets not start believing he's going to be Drew Brees in a couple seasons. Edited December 3, 2018 by wiskibreth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Anyone that is 22 years old should be able to improve with training and practice any athletic activity (except for maybe female gymnasts who seem to peak at younger ages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I would equate free throws with field goals. The “routine” and the repeatable mechanics matter more. General passing is closer to taking a shot in hoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: IMO, this issue about his accuracy has become so overblown... But it isn’t. He literally has never been like a 55% passer his whole career. It matters whether you think so or not. Those 5 passes missed can be the difference between Ws and Ls. In todays nfl, if you aren’t a 60% passer, you aren’t a starting level qb. Allen is a Rookie on a bad offense so he gets pass. But it needs to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Shooting is about touch & hand eye coordination. Passing is all those things coupled with timing, velocity & the X-Factor the WRs ability to catch. The rim is a stationary object. An accurate QB needs quick muscle twitch as much as brute arm strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 People confuse the concept of accuracy with that of precision. The classic example of this is throwing darts at a dartboard. Let's say you aim at the bulls eye and keep hitting the inner 10 ring. Hit it the same spot every time. You're very, very precise but you're not accurate. Now, let's say you didn't hit the bulls eye but you surround it pretty closely with all your darts. Now you're very accurate, but not precise. When people critique accuracy they really are critiquing precision. Can you stick the ball exactly in the same spot every time? I think there are very few QB that are incredibly precise. Most good ones are really accurate; the ball is always within the receiver's catch radius. And ideally of course you want high precision AND high accuracy. But that's very rare. Now, can you teach accuracy? Obviously yes or guys like Brady wouldn't go back to his coaches and work on drills every off season. Muscle memory helps in any athletic endeavor, whether it be throwing a football or baseball, kicking a soccer ball, golf swing, shooting free throws. As a QB it may take more as you would have to maintain that with large humans gunning for you, but it certainly can be worked on and improved 35 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: But it isn’t. He literally has never been like a 55% passer his whole career. It matters whether you think so or not. Those 5 passes missed can be the difference between Ws and Ls. In todays nfl, if you aren’t a 60% passer, you aren’t a starting level qb. Allen is a Rookie on a bad offense so he gets pass. But it needs to get better. Math is not your strong suit. Let's say you throw 30 passes in a game. Complete 18 and it's 60%. Know what 55% is? Completing 16.5 passes. Or 1.5 passes less a game. So let's say you have everyone covered and throw one out of bounds so you don't take a sack. Or your WR drops one or runs a bad route. There's your difference between this supposed magical 60% vs. 55% completion percentage. And it has absolutely nothing, as in zero, to do with accuracy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 The rim doesn't jump or dive after the thrower's crappy throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 From what was written prior to the draft and in camp and pre-season Allan was much more accurate. So if yo'u're going to argue that you can't teach accuracy, how was he more accurate in the offseason? Then the regular season starts and less accurate. What happened, likely panic tended to set in and he forgot everything he worked on off-season. As he plays and practices more as they say, "The game will slow down for him", at that point when he has time to think whats going on back there, maybe what he worked on off-season will also come back to him. He may not become Drew Brees type accurate, but with all his other talents, more than capably QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Virgil said: In the NBA, you hear about the ridiculous practice routines some of the greats have. I think Kobe wouldn’t start warm-ups until he hit like 500 free throws. In any case, the muscle memory or whatever is a pledged method for success in the NBA. In the NFL, I usually here about coaches working on players footwork or release point to affect accuracy. My question is this, what players have been know to increase their accuracy over the years and what did they do? For some of the greats that I remember early in their career like Brady and Ben, they started them in a more controlled offense where they’d throw to one read while averaging around 150 yards per game. Simple throws, low turnovers, basic. Then, over time, things expanded and it almost felt like confidence is how they grew them. It’s just an interest concept to me, teaching accuracy. So many of these guys have been throwing the football since they were 5 years old and now we want them to take a step forward in their early 20’s. It’s happened, I’m just curious for stories that made it happen. Accuracy is such a tough one to discuss on a fan level. So many layers... is the read correct? Ie did both he and receiver forecast the defender the same AND correctly to pick a place to connect. If either get it wrong - a great threw looks erratic easily. He could perfectly hit the dinner plate he targets 40 yards away and get called inaccurate simply by aiming at the wrong plate for instance. Did he expect the wr to be a step slower or did the ball slip a tiny bit? did he misread wind? then you get into footwork, release, arm strength (many of fitzs bad throws were a case of arm strength as much as “accuracy”), trajectory/touch and so on. Right now he’s got to learn a little of all of it (minus the arm strength... ) Edited December 4, 2018 by NoSaint 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Virgil said: In the NBA, you hear about the ridiculous practice routines some of the greats have. I think Kobe wouldn’t start warm-ups until he hit like 500 free throws. In any case, the muscle memory or whatever is a pledged method for success in the NBA. In the NFL, I usually here about coaches working on players footwork or release point to affect accuracy. My question is this, what players have been know to increase their accuracy over the years and what did they do? For some of the greats that I remember early in their career like Brady and Ben, they started them in a more controlled offense where they’d throw to one read while averaging around 150 yards per game. Simple throws, low turnovers, basic. Then, over time, things expanded and it almost felt like confidence is how they grew them. It’s just an interest concept to me, teaching accuracy. So many of these guys have been throwing the football since they were 5 years old and now we want them to take a step forward in their early 20’s. It’s happened, I’m just curious for stories that made it happen. Just saying here regarding this controversial issue. My research indicates that passing accuracy specifically from the pocket is absolutely a trainable psycho motor skill. It’s predominantly a matter of footwork and poise i.e., concentration. It seems to be a total myth that accuracy from the pocket cannot be taught and improved. And, in that respect, I have a fair amount of confidence that Josh can do this because he is intelligent and he is a hard worker. I believe he has started to show this already. My research also indicates that passing accuracy while on the move is not particularly trainable and is an inherent skill.However, I would encourage my fellow posters to do their own research on this and post their takes or opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: People confuse the concept of accuracy with that of precision. The classic example of this is throwing darts at a dartboard. Let's say you aim at the bulls eye and keep hitting the inner 10 ring. Hit it the same spot every time. You're very, very precise but you're not accurate. Now, let's say you didn't hit the bulls eye but you surround it pretty closely with all your darts. Now you're very accurate, but not precise. When people critique accuracy they really are critiquing precision. Can you stick the ball exactly in the same spot every time? I think there are very few QB that are incredibly precise. Most good ones are really accurate; the ball is always within the receiver's catch radius. And ideally of course you want high precision AND high accuracy. But that's very rare. Now, can you teach accuracy? Obviously yes or guys like Brady wouldn't go back to his coaches and work on drills every off season. Muscle memory helps in any athletic endeavor, whether it be throwing a football or baseball, kicking a soccer ball, golf swing, shooting free throws. As a QB it may take more as you would have to maintain that with large humans gunning for you, but it certainly can be worked on and improved Math is not your strong suit. Let's say you throw 30 passes in a game. Complete 18 and it's 60%. Know what 55% is? Completing 16.5 passes. Or 1.5 passes less a game. So let's say you have everyone covered and throw one out of bounds so you don't take a sack. Or your WR drops one or runs a bad route. There's your difference between this supposed magical 60% vs. 55% completion percentage. And it has absolutely nothing, as in zero, to do with accuracy. Good post and spot on. People take such simplistic approach to this. If you don’t hit the magical 60% then, clearly, you are an inaccurate passer. So much to every single throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Anything can be improved with practice. From kicking fgs, hitting golf balls, hitting baseballs, etc to a point where its maximized. Allen isnt there yet, hes nowhere near the wart thats being portrayed by the group that paimts the bulletriddled argument. He can improve and already has. If you cant see that then maybe find a different sport to partake, or practice on understanding what you are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Good post and spot on. People take such simplistic approach to this. If you don’t hit the magical 60% then, clearly, you are an inaccurate passer. So much to every single throw. I think you can’t dismiss it like that because so many elite QB’s find a way to do it. Yes, Brady is a mirage of short passes, but not all do that. That argument could go both ways to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: Good post and spot on. People take such simplistic approach to this. If you don’t hit the magical 60% then, clearly, you are an inaccurate passer. So much to every single throw. To be fair, 60% isn’t some magical threshold but it’s typically helpful in success as it’s a pretty low mark. 60% flat would be 30th in the league. Even 65% only gets you to 25th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortchaz Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 A quarterback’s accuracy can be talked about two ways, and they are often conflated. The two ways are · Ability to place the ball exactly where they want it · Ability to understand exactly where the ball should be placed There is no easy way to measure the quarterback’s ability to do both. This is such a nuanced and complicated subject; a text book could be written about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills11 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Virgil said: In the NBA, you hear about the ridiculous practice routines some of the greats have. I think Kobe wouldn’t start warm-ups until he hit like 500 free throws. In any case, the muscle memory or whatever is a pledged method for success in the NBA. In the NFL, I usually here about coaches working on players footwork or release point to affect accuracy. My question is this, what players have been know to increase their accuracy over the years and what did they do? For some of the greats that I remember early in their career like Brady and Ben, they started them in a more controlled offense where they’d throw to one read while averaging around 150 yards per game. Simple throws, low turnovers, basic. Then, over time, things expanded and it almost felt like confidence is how they grew them. It’s just an interest concept to me, teaching accuracy. So many of these guys have been throwing the football since they were 5 years old and now we want them to take a step forward in their early 20’s. It’s happened, I’m just curious for stories that made it happen. Accuracy is part mechanics and technique part natural talent..you can't teach a guy who throws the ball wildly innacurate like ej Manuel to throw with pinpoint accuracy because his base natural mechanics preclude him from being that way ...if you want a basketball analogy ..throwing is more akin to a jumpshot...every team employs shooting coaches and players have experts available to tweak their shot etc..but you can't teach DeMar DeRozan to shoot threes like Stephen curry that's where the natural ability part comes in. Allen has relatively good base mechanics but they still don't hold up properly under duress..Allen will never be as accurate as drew Brees but he can definitely reach his " ceiling" as far as being accurate . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 8 hours ago, NoSaint said: To be fair, 60% isn’t some magical threshold but it’s typically helpful in success as it’s a pretty low mark. 60% flat would be 30th in the league. Even 65% only gets you to 25th. Not arguing with you there. However, completion percentage doesn't, in and of itself, provide a complete assessment of accuracy. When I look at Allen, both at Wyoming and with the Bills, I do not see his accuracy as an issue that will prevent him from becoming a franchise caliber QB. I see a QB that is always looking to push the ball downfield (at the top of the league in length of pass per attempt), who throws a lot of passes into tight windows, who throws a lot of passes while moving to extend plays, all while playing with limited talent on the OL and at the offensive skill positions. It is just my opinion; but, I think Allen's style of play, rather than ability, is likely to keep him in the sub 60% completion range (much like Cam Newton, who has spent much of his career in that range). I know this much: After watching Allen the last two games, I didn't walk away thinking, "I wish he was a more accurate passer." I walked away thinking that I loved his willingness to attempt the kind of throws I have been waiting for from our QBs since Kelly. I also walked away thinking this rookie QB just threw 5 or 6 passes that only a handful of quarterbacks could ever make. Again, just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) accuracy is like sinking 3 point shots off the dribble. Ya can't be a PG and have no ability to do it. but .350 plus is very nice arsenal to have in addition to arm power. That overthrow to Robert Foster was a 40% chance play JA hits it at this point in his career IMO. You take that shot all day given the reward vs probability.. not horrible, but it would be nice if he had a higher % there. Edited December 4, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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