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My Answer to a Question Murph asked P. King “Is Buffalo missing something with approach to Offense?”


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Going to read some names

 

Wade Phillips

Greg Williams

Dick Jauron

Rex Ryan

Sean McDermott

 

Defense, Defense, Defense.  ALL Defensive Minded/Philosophical coaches whose approach permeates from the top bottom.

 

now the other two Head Coaches? 

 

Doug Marrone, a Offensive Sided Coach, but who is almost just as conservative and Defensive Minded as any Defensive Coordiantor in the league.  I mean...Coach Marrone was quoted as saying he NEVER WANTED TO THROW.

 

That only leaves Chan Gailey as being the only true Offensive Minded Head Coach to have control in Buffalo.  And while Chan did have some things he was far from progressive or innovative and really was Used Goods.

 

and Mike Mularkey who frankly i just recalled because another poster pointed it out.  If I try all I recall was McGahee running the bills to the 9-7 record.

 

1 of 2 things will happen.

1.) Allen will be good and his abilities will mask all of McDermott’s conversativeness.

 

2.) Allen wont be good and he and McDermott will be removed.

 

IF that happens, we need to hope/plead that the Pegulas will finally identify a YOUNG, PROGRESSIVE, INOVATING OFFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACH.

Edited by RalphWilson'sNewWar
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Just now, buffalobillswin said:

Don't forget about Mike Mularkey, who was the offensive coordinator of the Steelers. Before McDermott they were definitely rotating between offense and defensive minded coaches. 

 

Bigger problem is the coaches we hire aren't good.

 

Crap forgot about Mularkey.  I guess that blows up my point a little.

 

but I still say the focus on defense Minded Head coaches at 6 vs. 2-3 on Offensive is still a strong case for putting too much focus on the wrong side of the ball.

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Just now, buffalobillswin said:

Don't forget about Mike Mularkey, who was the offensive coordinator of the Steelers. Before McDermott they were definitely rotating between offense and defensive minded coaches. 

 

Bigger problem is the coaches we hire aren't good.

It's more than that until the entire FO was cleared after the draft, we were a wash in old holdovers that had "done things this way for the better part of half a century".   


That old school mentality permeated OBD.    But we whiffed time and again on quarterbacks.   The team has no identity.   McDermott is trying to establish one, similar to what they have in Carolina.  Solid defense, and trying to by dynamic on offense.  It works in Carolina because they have the QB.   Whether we have the QB or not is another thread.  But the common denominator in every regime since Wade Phillips left is the lack of a QB.   We lose, coaches get fired, another guy comes in and cleans house, whiffs on a QB, rinse repeat.

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Just now, GoBills808 said:

Seriously, talk about burying the lead.

 

He said he didn’t think buffalo was missing anything philosophically aabout Offense.  Then I stopped listening as I started to think about all the Defensive Minded Head coaches we have had and how it has outnumbered the offensive minded head coaches 2-1

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A head coach should be just that - a head coach - and not a coordinator on either side of the ball.  Some examples:  Belichick was a DC for many years.  His greatest success with the Pats has been centered around their offense and scoring a ton of points.  Going a back a few years, Brian Billick came to the Ravens with his best success as an OC and he was considered an offensive genius.  He had great success and won a Super Bowl in Baltimore with great defense and a poor Trent Dilfer-led offense.  Mike Tomlin has been pretty successful with the Steelers, mostly based on offense, but was previously a defensive coach.  The point is that a good HC is a good HC, regardless of the side of the ball they came from.

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5 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

It's more than that until the entire FO was cleared after the draft, we were a wash in old holdovers that had "done things this way for the better part of half a century".   


That old school mentality permeated OBD.    But we whiffed time and again on quarterbacks.   The team has no identity.   McDermott is trying to establish one, similar to what they have in Carolina.  Solid defense, and trying to by dynamic on offense.  It works in Carolina because they have the QB.   Whether we have the QB or not is another thread.  But the common denominator in every regime since Wade Phillips left is the lack of a QB.   We lose, coaches get fired, another guy comes in and cleans house, whiffs on a QB, rinse repeat.

 

I agree, but it’s also the choices different Head coaches would make based on their own expertise and preference.

 

lets say Pegulas hired a Sean McDermott in 2017...with ONLY ONE DIFFERENCE, that guy was a Offensive Coordiantor from Carolina.

 

2017 - Does a Offensive Minded Head Coach trade away from P. Mahomes and/or D. Watson in favor of a CB?

 

Say we had a 1st Year Offensive Minded Head Coach for 2018 then...

 

2018 - If we still Draft Josh Allen does a Offensive Minded Head Coach keep the 2nd 1st Round pick and draft a Linebacker?  Or does he draft WR Calvin Ridley to give his Rookie QB a viable target to grow with over the next 4-5 seasons?

 

these decisions were all bred from McDermott’s defensive preference.

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9 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

He said he didn’t think buffalo was missing anything philosophically aabout Offense.  Then I stopped listening as I started to think about all the Defensive Minded Head coaches we have had and how it has outnumbered the offensive minded head coaches 2-1

 

You should consider changing the title.

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10 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

It's more than that until the entire FO was cleared after the draft, we were a wash in old holdovers that had "done things this way for the better part of half a century".   


That old school mentality permeated OBD.    But we whiffed time and again on quarterbacks.   The team has no identity.   McDermott is trying to establish one, similar to what they have in Carolina.  Solid defense, and trying to by dynamic on offense.  It works in Carolina because they have the QB.   Whether we have the QB or not is another thread.  But the common denominator in every regime since Wade Phillips left is the lack of a QB.   We lose, coaches get fired, another guy comes in and cleans house, whiffs on a QB, rinse repeat.

I think the problem is also philosophy.

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I know the emergence of the Rams with McVey and the Bears with Naggy has everyone talking about offensive-minded head coaches. However, I don't think it has much to do with whether the coach is offense-minded or defense-minded. Bill B may go down in history as the greatest head coach in NFL history, and he is a defensive guy. Beginning with Mularkey, three of the four head coaches (Mularkey, Chan, Marrone) that the Bills hired came from the offensive side of the ball.

 

For the Bills, the problem prior used to be that Ralph simply did not see value in paying top dollar for coaches.Hence, all of the retreads over the years. Recall that Marv was himself a retread at the time that he took over in 1986. I think Ralph finally learned the error of his ways when Jauron was fired in the middle of the 2009 season. At the time, the team even tried to court Bill Cowher and Mike Shannahan, and Ralph was reportedly willing to pay $10 per year for either. It was Cowher who recommended Chan.  At least Marrone, Rex and McDermott were somewhat in demand at the time that the Bills hired them.

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26 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Going to read some names

 

Wade Phillips

Greg Williams

Dick Jauron

Rex Ryan

Sean McDermott

 

Defense, Defense, Defense.  ALL Defensive Minded/Philosophical coaches whose approach permeates from the top bottom.

 

now the other two Head Coaches? 

 

Doug Marrone, a Offensive Sided Coach, but who is almost just as conservative and Defensive Minded as any Defensive Coordiantor in the league.  I mean...Coach Marrone was quoted as saying he NEVER WANTED TO THROW.

 

That only leaves Chan Gailey as being the only true Offensive Minded Head Coach to have control in Buffalo.  And while Chan did have some things he was far from progressive or innovative and really was Used Goods.

 

and Mike Mularkey who frankly i just recalled because another poster pointed it out.  If I try all I recall was McGahee running the bills to the 9-7 record.

 

1 of 2 things will happen.

1.) Allen will be good and his abilities will mask all of McDermott’s conversativeness.

 

2.) Allen wont be good and he and McDermott will be removed.

 

IF that happens, we need to hope/plead that the Pegulas will finally identify a YOUNG, PROGRESSIVE, INOVATING OFFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACH.

 

We can all agree that McDermott comes from a defensive background.

 

However, people who laugh at McDermott when he talks about 'controlling the line of scrimmage' or 'winning physical battles' don't understand what they are talking about. The Rams, Saints, Patriots, and Chiefs dominate the line of scrimmage (at least on the offensive side). They may do it with 3 or 4 wide or spread personnel, but that doesn't change the reality.

 

It is not like McDermott's vision is to line up in the I-formation with two TEs and just slug the ball down the field. I think that really is what Rex or Marrone wanted to do. 

 

The issues on offense are many but scheme or philosophy is not the problem. It's everything else that made an offense we knew would be weak turn out historically bad - dead money, lack of talent, unexpected injuries on the O-line, poor planning at the backup QB, brutal schedule, etc. 

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15 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I think the problem is also philosophy.

I don't disagree with you.  Every coach that comes in here has the same mindset "we're going to change the culture, and build a team that can compete in bad weather".   

 

Can we build a team that can compete in the NFL in 2018 and not 1978 pretty effing please????   They all want a solid running game and a great defense.   Meanwhile the Eagles/Rams/Chiefs are all building world beating offenses, and the Falcons and Saints are right there too.   

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44 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Going to read some names

 

Wade Phillips

Greg Williams

Dick Jauron

Rex Ryan

Sean McDermott

 

Defense, Defense, Defense.  ALL Defensive Minded/Philosophical coaches whose approach permeates from the top bottom.

 

now the other two Head Coaches? 

 

Doug Marrone, a Offensive Sided Coach, but who is almost just as conservative and Defensive Minded as any Defensive Coordiantor in the league.  I mean...Coach Marrone was quoted as saying he NEVER WANTED TO THROW.

 

That only leaves Chan Gailey as being the only true Offensive Minded Head Coach to have control in Buffalo.  And while Chan did have some things he was far from progressive or innovative and really was Used Goods.

 

and Mike Mularkey who frankly i just recalled because another poster pointed it out.  If I try all I recall was McGahee running the bills to the 9-7 record.

 

1 of 2 things will happen.

1.) Allen will be good and his abilities will mask all of McDermott’s conversativeness.

 

2.) Allen wont be good and he and McDermott will be removed.

 

IF that happens, we need to hope/plead that the Pegulas will finally identify a YOUNG, PROGRESSIVE, INOVATING OFFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACH.

I am on board with McBeane's immediate dismissal, as that will save us time in the long run.

 

It would also be great if Pegula ordered them to take a QB with our coming high first round pick for when Allen busts.  That will save us some time too at least in terms of having a backup shot at QB.  Doesn't mean the newly drafted QB will be any better but gotta keep taking QBs until we have one.

 

This whole thing is on pace to end at the end of next season, then more regime change, then more personnel change to make the new HC happy, etc.  

 

I'm just trying to save some time here. 

 

And YES, I would ONLY consider young, offensive minded HC candidates.  Not because that is totally necessary, but b/c I think it gives an advantage and creates the greatest chance for success.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Flip Johnson said:

 

We can all agree that McDermott comes from a defensive background.

 

However, people who laugh at McDermott when he talks about 'controlling the line of scrimmage' or 'winning physical battles' don't understand what they are talking about. The Rams, Saints, Patriots, and Chiefs dominate the line of scrimmage (at least on the offensive side). They may do it with 3 or 4 wide or spread personnel, but that doesn't change the reality.

 

It is not like McDermott's vision is to line up in the I-formation with two TEs and just slug the ball down the field. I think that really is what Rex or Marrone wanted to do. 

 

The issues on offense are many but scheme or philosophy is not the problem. It's everything else that made an offense we knew would be weak turn out historically bad - dead money, lack of talent, unexpected injuries on the O-line, poor planning at the backup QB, brutal schedule, etc. 

We simply don't have the players to execute the offensive philosophy.   A second problem is that Coach Daboll has not put a good game plan to put his rookie and sophomore QBs to succeed

 

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Offensive minded or defensive minded is a load of bunk that the media spews and fans buy into. 

 

A great head coach puts equal emphasis on all aspects of the game and has a strong say in who is personnel is across the board. 

 

The best coaches somehow have great coordinators in all phases of the game, then they lose them to other teams, and they bring in more great coordinators.  Even wonder why?  It because they oversee EVERYTHING and makes sure that its right. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Offensive minded or defensive minded is a load of bunk that the media spews and fans buy into. 

 

A great head coach puts equal emphasis on all aspects of the game and has a strong say in who is personnel is across the board. 

 

The best coaches somehow have great coordinators in all phases of the game, then they lose them to other teams, and they bring in more great coordinators.  Even wonder why?  It because they oversee EVERYTHING and makes sure that its right. 

 

 

So then, considering our offense is literally historically bad, you're saying Sean McDermott is not a good HC.

 

Yes?

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Offensive minded or defensive minded is a load of bunk that the media spews and fans buy into. 

 

A great head coach puts equal emphasis on all aspects of the game and has a strong say in who is personnel is across the board. 

 

The best coaches somehow have great coordinators in all phases of the game, then they lose them to other teams, and they bring in more great coordinators.  Even wonder why?  It because they oversee EVERYTHING and makes sure that its right. 

 

 

Thank you. I’ve read several mentions of Belichick and his being a “defensive” coach as an example for giving those guys some leeway. That misses the point by light years. Belichick knows more about EVERY phase of the game in EVERY situation of the game, including coaches like McVay and Nagy. If and when guys like McD can demonstrate that kind of all around command of the game, then Belichick comparisons will be more appropriate. 

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19 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Offensive minded or defensive minded is a load of bunk that the media spews and fans buy into. 

 

A great head coach puts equal emphasis on all aspects of the game and has a strong say in who is personnel is across the board. 

 

The best coaches somehow have great coordinators in all phases of the game, then they lose them to other teams, and they bring in more great coordinators.  Even wonder why?  It because they oversee EVERYTHING and makes sure that its right. 

 

 

Oh it isn't.  You have coaches like Payton,  McVay,  Reid, and Pederson who effectively serve as their own coordinator while turning the responsibility on the other side to a trusted assistant.  

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6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

So then, considering our offense is literally historically bad, you're saying Sean McDermott is not a good HC.

 

Yes?

 

 

 

No this is bigger than offense or defense or what the HC job was BEFORE he became the HC. 

 

 I think he needs 3 to 4 years to do a fair assessment.  My assessment will not be based on how good any one phase of the game is.  It will be on the teams overall performance measured by wins and losses. 

 

His first year was excellent in that he won 9 games even after roster was stripped down.  He had the team motivated and he overcame a horrible 3 game stretch were the defense was very poor.    

 

His 2nd year is a disaster and not likely to change.  He will be accountable for the play on the field and the rebuild of the roster.

 

So far in the past 1.5 seasons in the job he is not grading out very well. 

 

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9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Oh it isn't.  You have coaches like Payton,  McVay,  Reid, and Pederson who effectively serve as their own coordinator while turning the responsibility on the other side to a trusted assistant.  

You just proved my point,   Head coaches have been calling offensive plays since the 50's, 60's, 70's.  The coaches you named have offensive assistants but they call they shots.

 

Brown, Allen, Lombardi, Stram, Landry, Shula, Noll, Walsh, the list is endless.  Plays were sent down to Marv Levy too.   Then the specialty coordinator thing started and all this offensive minded/ defensive minded baloney started where some HC's let the two coordinators run the game.   But it does not have to be that way. 

 

My point is the HC is responsible for all of it, if he passes one or both phases of it to someone else that is his business. 

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Just now, Bob in STL said:

You just proved my point,   Head coaches have been calling offensive plays since the 50's, 60's, 70's.  The coaches you named have offensive assistants but they call they shots.

 

Brown, Allen, Lombardi, Stram, Landry, Shula, Noll, Walsh, the list is endless.  Plays were sent down to Marv Levy too.   Then the specialty coordinator thing started and all this offensive minded/ defensive minded baloney started where some HC's let the two coordinators run the game.   But it does not have to be that way. 

 

My point is the HC is responsible for all of it, if he passes one or both phases of it to someone else that is his business. 

 

I actually just proved my own point with the specific examples I provided although it varies from team to team with some HCs serving in the role of administrator. 

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1 hour ago, 2003Contenders said:

I know the emergence of the Rams with McVey and the Bears with Naggy has everyone talking about offensive-minded head coaches. However, I don't think it has much to do with whether the coach is offense-minded or defense-minded. Bill B may go down in history as the greatest head coach in NFL history, and he is a defensive guy. Beginning with Mularkey, three of the four head coaches (Mularkey, Chan, Marrone) that the Bills hired came from the offensive side of the ball.

 

 

BB knows offense just as much as defense. They have been running variations of his offense for 18 years now. These type of coaches no longer exist. Now hc run their side of the ball and pretty much give the opposite coordinator full control

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3 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

It's more than that until the entire FO was cleared after the draft, we were a wash in old holdovers that had "done things this way for the better part of half a century".   


That old school mentality permeated OBD.    But we whiffed time and again on quarterbacks.   The team has no identity.   McDermott is trying to establish one, similar to what they have in Carolina.  Solid defense, and trying to by dynamic on offense.  It works in Carolina because they have the QB.   Whether we have the QB or not is another thread.  But the common denominator in every regime since Wade Phillips left is the lack of a QB.   We lose, coaches get fired, another guy comes in and cleans house, whiffs on a QB, rinse repeat.

 

...nicely done "Pops".......except for the "trying to be dynamic on offense".....it is unconscionable that this gang could have whiffed so badly on offense......almost like it is an after thought......rehash of Jauron ball and REMOTELY trying to mimic the Yr 2000 Ravens SB champs.......sure the Woods retirement and Incognito meltdown had effects, and now Shady is Shadyless......but some of their personnel moves offensively sure as hell defy logic........no need to repeat......feel bad for Josh coming into this mess, working his tail off, keeping a positive team attitude and getting beat up when he should be sitting/learning......they have the 2019 draft and FA to show something substantially........if we're wallowing in the SAME manure at this time next year, I'd sure as hell lose patience if I was Pegula.........stay tuned........

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4 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

It's more than that until the entire FO was cleared after the draft, we were a wash in old holdovers that had "done things this way for the better part of half a century".   

 

It has not been cleared out.  Jim Overdorf has been there forever (that is an exaggeration but I cannot find when he was hired but he was working for Bills as far back as 1999) and is definitely an old holdover.

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4 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

I agree, but it’s also the choices different Head coaches would make based on their own expertise and preference.

 

lets say Pegulas hired a Sean McDermott in 2017...with ONLY ONE DIFFERENCE, that guy was a Offensive Coordiantor from Carolina.

 

2017 - Does a Offensive Minded Head Coach trade away from P. Mahomes and/or D. Watson in favor of a CB?

 

Say we had a 1st Year Offensive Minded Head Coach for 2018 then...

 

2018 - If we still Draft Josh Allen does a Offensive Minded Head Coach keep the 2nd 1st Round pick and draft a Linebacker?  Or does he draft WR Calvin Ridley to give his Rookie QB a viable target to grow with over the next 4-5 seasons?

 

these decisions were all bred from McDermott’s defensive preference.

Excellent post! ?

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10 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Going to read some names

 

Wade Phillips

Greg Williams

Dick Jauron

Rex Ryan

Sean McDermott

 

Defense, Defense, Defense.  ALL Defensive Minded/Philosophical coaches whose approach permeates from the top bottom.

 

now the other two Head Coaches? 

 

Doug Marrone, a Offensive Sided Coach, but who is almost just as conservative and Defensive Minded as any Defensive Coordiantor in the league.  I mean...Coach Marrone was quoted as saying he NEVER WANTED TO THROW.

 

That only leaves Chan Gailey as being the only true Offensive Minded Head Coach to have control in Buffalo.  And while Chan did have some things he was far from progressive or innovative and really was Used Goods.

 

and Mike Mularkey who frankly i just recalled because another poster pointed it out.  If I try all I recall was McGahee running the bills to the 9-7 record.

 

1 of 2 things will happen.

1.) Allen will be good and his abilities will mask all of McDermott’s conversativeness.

 

2.) Allen wont be good and he and McDermott will be removed.

 

IF that happens, we need to hope/plead that the Pegulas will finally identify a YOUNG, PROGRESSIVE, INOVATING OFFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACH.

We had the best screen game in the NFL under Gailey...Spiller was lethal on screens under him

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Two of the great offensive minds in NFL history were known as defensive guys when hired.

 

Tom Landry,  player/DC for the Champion Giants.

Bill Bellyache, DC of the Champion Giants.

 

Marv Levy was HC of a really good offensive team who was a Special Teams Coordinator.

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