Nobody should be doubting Beane or McDermott

[COTC]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I must have missed something......on their first drive, Ravens moved down the damn field faster than Grant took Richmond....shouldn't that be on Frazier?.......who I still don;t think did squat in the pre-season about the Run D getting gashed badly...no Daboll creativity as in try anything?......Castillo's rock solid OL again?.....hard to watch guys like McVay (CREDIT to Wade as his DC) or Pederson get "it" in their respective 2nd years as HC's (and they don't clap clap clap).....it's too often and "OBDitis" fault....pretty sure one of Moo-Larkey's clubs still holds the team record for most scores on opening drives......come 2nd half adjustments, they got smoked faster than a pork shoulder butt............

Good post.  Low and slow baby!!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I will continue to doubt anyone who sees Nathan Peterman as an NFL QB.

 

...just baffling....guy looks good in TC as well as pre-season (granted they're rubber bullets)....go "live ammo" in the real deal and the guy collapses.........

[Peter]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

SoCo, the point some others see is that Beane's choices CREATED the dead cap situation that is now being used as a rationale to excuse other actions/lack of action.

 

Those may have been good choices, they may have been hard but necessary choices, or they may have been poor choices, but they are choices, and can be questioned, and in view of other decisions questioned. 

 

For example, they held a fire sale on Dareus and created $13.5M dead cap; then they signed 29 year old Star Lotulelei to a 5 year, $50M contract with a $6.7M cap hit this year. 

One viewpoint would be they traded a younger player who has shown more talent, for a long-term investment in an older, lesser talent.  Maybe it was a good move, or a necessary move, but can you see that it kind of isn't logically consistent with the idea of lacking the cap space to do anything this past year, AND with needing to get younger?

 

They created the situation that is now being used to excuse them.  Maybe it's a necessary situation, but the point is, the brutal dead cap and the limited cap space for FA this year are the result of situations they chose.

 

 

Yep.

 

This is kind of like the kid who kills his parents and then asks for the court's mercy because he is an "orphan."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

This pretty much says my point of view... 

 

 

 

 

 

And it's a point of view worth expressing, and may prove right over time.

 

But there are other points of view; it's not "beyond doubt" as a viewpoint

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, COTC said:

Good post.  Low and slow baby!!

 

...LMAO!......just got my new Camp Chef pellet smoker.....did brisket, ribs and bacon wrapped chicken breasts.....even had room left for Peterman if he preferred "non-contact smoked".....

[Heitz]

Just because some don't like or get the plan current management has, doesn't mean it's bad / wrong.  

 

Might be, might not be, we gonna find out...

[Augie]

Well, this has gone over about as I expected.  ?

Edited September 11, 2018 by Augie

[LEE1]

A lot of you make some interesting points. They do have a plan in place a plan they’ve been scheming since the regime change. They can stay the coarse that’s not the problem their long term plan might even pan out. But they knew and had ample time to address the monkey wrench that got thrown into their plans. Losing 2 starting OL and doing little to address it because it doesn’t go along with the PLAN is unacceptable and naive. But what’s done is done very little can be done to change it now. They have to make the necessary adjustments on offense to compensate. 2 rookie QB’s a weak OL so far unproductive WR’s. Simplify the offense quit running the offense under center use more screens and short passes. That takes pressure of inexperienced QB’s keeps defenses honest and opens up the run game. The Bills are in no way down and out like so many are saying. They don’t even have to change that long term plan just their strategy.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

They had plenty of time to adjust to the best 60% of the starting OL leaving. (not enough time left to scout is SO LAME)

Honestly, the OL was not good last year either (or the last 20 years for that matter).

Tyrod/McCoy made them LOOK serviceable because they were quick scramblers.

OL should have been majorly addressed. Been saying it for 20 years... but especially after losing those 3 guys. 

 

 

Glenn wasn’t much of a factor last season - the other two yes...

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

Well, this has gone over about as I expected.  ?

 

...depressing if it did NOT, right?............

[B Fan in LA]

2 hours ago, SoCoBills said:

These guys have a plan. Unfortunately though sometimes plans can be thrown off the rails by uncontrollable occurrences and even the best laid plans burn to ashes. 

 

I believe Beane and McD are constantly evaluating & constantly looking to improve the team but not at the expense of the bigger picture. If we have Wood & Incognito I think we are worlds better than we are right now. I think that makes our offense immediately competent. It’s eye opening to discover exactly how important the big guys along the inside of your OL are when you don’t have any good ones isn’t it?

 

McD botched the season with some terrible moves.

The perfect QB for this disastrous OLine is TT, and they gave him away for a 4th round pick.

Allen could've watched and learned from a seasoned vet for the whole season.

 

Those guys are dopes, IMHO.

 

[One Buffalo]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And it's a point of view worth expressing, and may prove right over time.

 

But there are other points of view; it's not "beyond doubt" as a viewpoint

 

True...  I have resigned myself to a miserable year this year, which means we will see lots of "sky is falling" chicken little's around here.  That is not to say that all criticism is unwarranted.  McBeane shouldn't get a free pass entirely, but I am of the mind that a year from now is when they should really start to be held to account.  Right now they are still laying the foundation, which includes digging out the old to make way for the new, painful and ugly work. A year from now we should be seeing the above ground product that can and should be critiqued.   

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...depressing if it did NOT, right?............

 

I’m almost numb to depression after Sunday. I mean.......REALLY? We waited all year for.....THAT? 

[GreggTX]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

They had plenty of time to adjust to the best 60% of the starting OL leaving. (not enough time left to scout is SO LAME)

Honestly, the OL was not good last year either (or the last 20 years for that matter).

Tyrod/McCoy made them LOOK serviceable because they were quick scramblers.

OL should have been majorly addressed. Been saying it for 20 years... but especially after losing those 3 guys. 

 

So what other positions should they not have addressed in order to address multiple weaknesses on the OL? QB? MLB? CB? DT? DE?

[Aussie Joe]

12 minutes ago, B Fan in LA said:

 

McD botched the season with some terrible moves.

The perfect QB for this disastrous OLine is TT, and they gave him away for a 4th round pick.

Allen could've watched and learned from a seasoned vet for the whole season.

 

Those guys are dopes, IMHO.

 

 

4th Round?

 

It was the first pick in the 3rd Round... at the time a lot of experts here said that he was not worth anything and they would have to cut him..

 

[Ayjent]

6 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

 

True...  I have resigned myself to a miserable year this year, which means we will see lots of "sky is falling" chicken little's around here.  That is not to say that all criticism is unwarranted.  McBeane shouldn't get a free pass entirely, but I am of the mind that a year from now is when they should really start to be held to account.  Right now they are still laying the foundation, which includes digging out the old to make way for the new, painful and ugly work. A year from now we should be seeing the above ground product that can and should be critiqued.   

I get the patience and understand it, but the evidence is starting to mount and I'm afraid the results aren't going to be much better next year.  I don't understand what all the cap space is going to do for the Bills other than get them into more bad contracts.

[Dr. K]

53 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

SoCo, the point some others see is that Beane's choices CREATED the dead cap situation that is now being used as a rationale to excuse other actions/lack of action.

 

Those may have been good choices, they may have been hard but necessary choices, or they may have been poor choices, but they are choices, and can be questioned, and in view of other decisions questioned. 

 

For example, they held a fire sale on Dareus and created $13.5M dead cap; then they signed 29 year old Star Lotulelei to a 5 year, $50M contract with a $6.7M cap hit this year. 

One viewpoint would be they traded a younger player who has shown more talent, for a long-term investment in an older, lesser talent.  Maybe it was a good move, or a necessary move, but can you see that it kind of isn't logically consistent with the idea of lacking the cap space to do anything this past year, AND with needing to get younger?

 

They created the situation that is now being used to excuse them.  Maybe it's a necessary situation, but the point is, the brutal dead cap and the limited cap space for FA this year are the result of situations they chose.

 

Precisely. 

[BuffaloBillies]

4 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

So what other positions should they not have addressed in order to address multiple weaknesses on the OL? QB? MLB? CB? DT? DE?

 

Personally, I was a trade down guy last year and will be again next year. Too many needs. Need multiple top-3 round talents on OL (as well as the other positions you list). Getting just one 5th round OL every year (for example) does not build a line. Need to totally invest in OL since it's been grossly ignored for a very long time. At one time, I think we had 6 picks in the top 3 rounds last year before the trades (is that right?). Would have been a good time to get 3 top-3 round linemen. Every position's important, obviously... just seems like OL is always an afterthought. Just my opinion, but I think OL is the most important position group on the team.

[oldmanfan]

They hopefully have the leaders of their offense and defense after last year's draft.  Now what?  

 

I recall all listening to Polian once explaining how he puts a team together.  He said you have to decide what positions you felt were essential, and that's where you spend your money.  His as I recall were QB, LT, WR, rush DE, and CB.  The rest you fill in as you can.

 

Given that, Beane and McD and their positions?  I think QB and MLB.  Got them, hopefully.  LT?  Should have that in Dawkins.  CB?  White.  They need a good pass rushing DE.  They need a good WR.  

 

If they go by a similar mindset to Polian, they need to fill in the D line, O line.  I personally disagree; I'd invest more in lines.  But the problem this year is the guys they use as O linemen aren't good enough.

 

So next year, lot of cap space, lot of draft picks.  Should be able to address a lot of needs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

So what other positions should they not have addressed in order to address multiple weaknesses on the OL? QB? MLB? CB? DT? DE?

 

C'mon Gregg, there are always different ways of accomplishing a task.  People want to take a snapshot at a particular point in time and then say "well what else should they have done?" but it's not that simple.

 

We had some of those weaknesses because we let the players walk when we could have re-signed them on quite reasonable contracts (EJ Gaines, Preston Brown) or traded them for peanuts and assumed a lot of dead cap (Dareus, plus additional cap to sign Star) or traded them for picks (Darby, Watkins, Taylor)

 

Maybe those were all necessary or wise moves, but it's totally fair to point out that we were bandaging self-induced wounds, and that the choices we made reflected the team's priorities - on which OL was either near the bottom, or mis-perceived as having been adequately addressed by the additions of Ducasse, Bodine, and Newhouse.

 

[yungmack]

3 hours ago, The_Dude said:

OP: “they got a plan.”

 

Me: Custer had a plan. 

Crazy Horse had a better one.

[eee1776]

Just watched the press conferences  of Fraz and Debol, I can believe the were at the same game I watched Sunday. But with that said This Sundays game at home should be a marked improvement from last week . If not, then I might have to  join the negative part of these post. Home game, west coast team, we should rock. 

[Green Lightning]

Anytime you get multiple blowouts over 17 games, you better worry and it's only natural to have a few doubts. Sunday's loss wasn't just a loss, it was a complete and utter disaster on every front. The worst ever opening day in out 59 year history and second worst loss ever is not a hill I want to die on stating nobody should have doubts. So for now, I'm staying the course, but several more of these and you're going to have more doubts than you know what to do with. 

[yungmack]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Please explain (given our dead cap situation) what offensive linemen was available to help our situation.....I will wait.

A dead cap situation they contributed to mightly.

[boater]

3 hours ago, SoCoBills said:

It’s eye opening to discover exactly how important the big guys along the inside of your OL are when you don’t have any good ones isn’t it?

Agree! Yet they cut deBeer today.

 

Granted deBeer was a project, but he was a project at a highly sought position. deBeer's agent tweeted that there is allot of interest in OL developmental prospects and that deBeer will land on his feet. 

 

lolz.. he'll be the next Jason Peters.

[Jon in Pasadena]

[yungmack]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you think he's singing Mama Mia?

 

 

 

"I bless the rains down in Africa..."

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, DougFlutie7 said:

Wrong, everyone should be doubting them. Stop pretending their God’s gift to football. Stop for one second and realize this roster is a dumpster fire. 

 

Williams had a plan

Mularkey had a plan

Buddy Nix had a plan

Dick Jaruron had a plan

Chan Gailey had a plan

Tom Donahoe had a plan

Doug Marrone had a plan

Doug Whaley had a plan

Rex had a plan

 

And now these guys have a plan.

 

I started out with these guys off the band wagon until I saw reason to get on.  I did last year.  Another start by Nasty Nate and I'm back off til I see reason to get back on.

 

I thought we had found guys that didn't need to gut the team in order to get all new guys in order to get close to .500 when they get fired in 2 to 3 years.

 

It's a results business.  Show me some results this year.

Edited September 11, 2018 by reddogblitz

[SoCoBills]

6 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Williams had a plan

Mularkey had a plan

Buddy Nix had a plan

Dick Jaruron had a plan

Chan Gailey had a plan

Tom Donahoe had a plan

Doug Marrone had a plan

Doug Whaley had a plan

Rex had a plan

 

And now these guys have a plan.

 

I started out with these guys off the band wagon until I saw reason to get on.  I did last year.  Another start by Nasty Nate and I'm back off til I see reason to get back on.

 

I thought we had found guys that didn't need to gut the team in order to get all new guys in order to get close to .500 when they get fired in 2 to 3 years.

 

It's a results business.  Show me some results this year.

 

Disgusting list of guys with plans in this response. I for the record didn’t hold much belief in any of them.

18 minutes ago, yungmack said:

A dead cap situation they contributed to mightly.

 

Better dead cap clearing soon than dead weight with the team for years to come. 

[ColoradoBills]

While I'm not to the point to demand to "stick my fingers in both their palms nail holes",

I must admit some of the luster has worn off. 

[SoCoBills]

12 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

While I'm not to the point to demand to "stick my fingers in both their palms nail holes",

I must admit some of the luster has worn off. 

 

 

Same. I agree we are seeing some guys learning and making mistakes but the overall plan I do understand. Get younger, draft elite talent where you can get it. Build a culture. Don’t overpay for low effort players. That said some mistakes have been made and signees aren’t working out how we’d have hoped. Sometimes though that’s what you get when you bargain shop. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by SoCoBills

[baskingridgebillsfan]

they entered the season with the worst o line in the league and the worst receiving crew in the league.  They spent 25 million in cap on Free agents and didn't address either.  They drafted what they hope is the qb of the future and gave him zero to work with.   Yeah i trust them.  I trust them will both be out of the league in two years

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

they entered the season with the worst o line in the league and the worst receiving crew in the league.  They spent 25 million in cap on Free agents and didn't address either.  They drafted what they hope is the qb of the future and gave him zero to work with.   Yeah i trust them.  I trust them will both be out of the league in two years

That is simply untrue.  They brought in a C and T in free agency and a WR in Kerley.  Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they did not address the issue.  

[fridge]

We’ve been blown out in 4 games under McDermott. Nearly a quarter of the time his team gets just demolished right off the field. 24% of his games. I am rooting for them as much as anyone, but let’s not pretend this game was a one-off.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, fridge said:

We’ve been blown out in 4 games under McDermott. Nearly a quarter of the time his team gets just demolished right off the field. 24% of his games. I am rooting for them as much as anyone, but let’s not pretend this game was a one-off.

It is concerning

[reddogblitz]

Just now, baskingridgebillsfan said:

they entered the season with the worst o line in the league and the worst receiving crew in the league.  They spent 25 million in cap on Free agents and didn't address either.  They drafted what they hope is the qb of the future and gave him zero to work with.   Yeah i trust them.  I trust them will both be out of the league in two years

 

If they do waste this season to get even better draft capital next year, then they better either make the playoffs in 2019 or get VERY close or their seats will be getting very hot if they still have seats that is.

[TheBeaneBandit]

Nobody should be supporting these guys either.  The book on these guys is a how to suck manuel and the team is a bunch of flat earther cult followers reading it step by step. 

[Mickey]

5 hours ago, SoCoBills said:

These guys have a plan.

 

Was the plan to get a franchise QB, trade away the seasoned, accomplished veteran who could have mentored him and have his reps split three ways in practice with two guys who have no future in this league? If so, McD nailed it, stuck the landing, 10.0 from the Russian judge. 

 

I want to trust the process but I can't pretend that this is looking good or build an argument subtle enough to delude me in to thinking this is all good.

[Rocbillsfan1]

5 hours ago, DougFlutie7 said:

Wrong, everyone should be doubting them. Stop pretending their God’s gift to football. Stop for one second and realize this roster is a dumpster fire. 

It’s a dumpster fire for a reason. Everybody thought we were tanking last year and when it finally happens people act all surprised. If Brandon Beane ends up picking the qb mlb, and defense tackle for the next 15 years it could be the best draft in bills history and you are ready to already fire him. Also add in the fact that he may have been giving us help last year on the dl to get white and Dawkins two players Carolina supposedly liked you could have a QB, left tackle, shut down corner, MLB, and DT in two years. That would be a huge success. Give this guy until the end of 2019 where he gets a chance to add more veteran talent and a bunch of top tier draft talent. Or you could just keep whining all year up to you. 

31 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

Was the plan to get a franchise QB, trade away the seasoned, accomplished veteran who could have mentored him and have his reps split three ways in practice with two guys who have no future in this league? If so, McD nailed it, stuck the landing, 10.0 from the Russian judge. 

 

I want to trust the process but I can't pretend that this is looking good or build an argument subtle enough to delude me in to thinking this is all good.

Having try hard tailor or paying a boat load of money for Sam Bradford to mentor Allen would have been just as big of a waste IMO. Let the kid play for !@#$s sake. We are married to Allen for better or worse for the next 3 to 4 years. 

[The_Dude]

2 hours ago, yungmack said:

Crazy Horse had a better one.

 

So you’re calling Belichick, Crazyhorse. I got ya. Can’t disagree.