The Punter Situation/New Punter

[Jay_Fixit]

Punters. Lol

[CSBill]

57 minutes ago, mead107 said:

So we needed a new punter thread. 

 

Like we needed another punter.

[JMF2006]

Just now, BillsFan692 said:

I think the point I was making got lost on you there, it was a very low risk move and who cares in the end. My point is that they were really wrong about him, couldn't they be really wrong about this rookie punter that has never played a snap before? 

 

The guy was a former 1st round pick if someone was wrong it was the Browns.

 

We needed to see if this guy could fit and he has speed so he was worth a look.

 

At 21 in waiver priority he likely doesn't make the drive down the I90 thats why the lowest compensation level was offered to get him here.

 

Might have been wrong but they are not leaving many stones unturned.

[BillsFan692]

13 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

The guy was a former 1st round pick if someone was wrong it was the Browns.

 

We needed to see if this guy could fit and he has speed so he was worth a look.

 

At 21 in waiver priority he likely doesn't make the drive down the I90 thats why the lowest compensation level was offered to get him here.

 

Might have been wrong but they are not leaving many stones unturned.

It's like you and I are having completely separate conversations -- why are you talking about Corey Coleman? I am only referencing Corey Coleman to highlight the fact that they thought he might have potential and then obviously he did not. Do you disagree with that assessment? I think everyone can agree on that one.

So the question I am posing is: Given that presupposition how can we be so sure that the new punter on our team -- a rookie that has yet to play an NFL snap, that we just acquired off the waiver wire only 7 days before the regular season begins, will actually work out and be decent and serviceable? 

And I am answering: We can't, the emperor has no clothes, they are basically throwing darts at the board with entire positions. 

Most of the counter arguments go something like "LOL PUNTER" or some such but I find it fascinating none the less. I mean hey it's a grim reality but one we should acknowledge even if it's "just the punter position", it provides insight into the overall operations of an NFL club (ours, the one we care a lot about!)

Edited September 3, 2018 by BillsFan692

[JMF2006]

1 minute ago, BillsFan692 said:

It's like you and I are having completely separate conversations -- why are you talking about Corey Coleman? I am only referencing Corey Coleman to highlight the fact that they thought he might have potential and then obviously he did not. Do you disagree with that assessment? I think everyone can agree on that one.

So the question I am posing is: Given that presupposition how can we be so sure that the new punter on our team -- a rookie that has yet to play an NFL snap, that we just acquired off the waiver wire only 7 days before the regular season begins, will actually work out and be decent and serviceable? 

And I am answering: We can't, the emperor has no clothes, they are basically throwing darts at the board with entire positions. 

Most of the counter arguments go something like "LOL PUNTER" or some such but I find it fascinating none the less. I mean hey it's a grim reality but one we should acknowledge even if it's "just the punter position", it provides insight into the overall operations of an NFL club (ours, the one we care a lot about!)

 

I know what your saying but CC was not a high risk gamble and neither is this kid.

 

Have you even seen his colledge stat line?

 

CS6 was average do you want to settle for average?

 

This kid might be a star at his position,crap even Lechler got cut this year.

[MrEpsYtown]

49 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

 

I have no issue with cutting/changing/trading/drafting punters and kickers. It's just going in to start a season and 7 days before the kick off of the opening game we totally dump what we have and bring in some rookie who hasn't even played in a pre-season game? Just seems mind boggling to me that type of, lets call it "Situation" would even be possible to happen at the NFL level -- you would just think they would have had a bit more planning and forsight then to be scrambling to grab an unknown rookie 7 days before kick off.

 

I think it's a very fair point. If they really disliked Schmidt they could have drafted Dickson or Scott or Townsend...maybe signed Marquette King when he was cut. 

 

That said I am ok with it. My guess is they had some agreement with this new punter, so they went ahead and drafted Austin Proehl...NE came calling and the punter screwed them and signed with NE instead. I think it happens a lot with UDFA. Bills were patient and got their guy. They must really like this guy, otherwise the move is questionable. 

[BillsFan692]

9 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

I know what your saying but CC was not a high risk gamble and neither is this kid.

 

Have you even seen his colledge stat line?

 

CS6 was average do you want to settle for average?

 

This kid might be a star at his position,crap even Lechler got cut this year.

Yeah I know what you mean, I am hoping that he works out great too and that we are set on the punter position for a while. I just find the process a little shocking to be making this type of move 7 days before the regular season kicks off. I think it's riskier than Coleman because with Coleman, so what if he doesn't work out you didn't really lose anything you just have what you had before. This I find to be more risky because it's your only punter you know? If he doesn't work out it's a bigger deal, in my opinion.

[JMF2006]

Just now, BillsFan692 said:

Yeah I know what you mean, I am hoping that he works out great too and that we are set on the punter position for a while. I just find the process a little shocking to be making this type of move 7 days before the regular season kicks off. I think it's riskier than Coleman because with Coleman, so what if he doesn't work out you didn't really lose anything you just have what you had before. This I find to be more risky because it's your only punter you know? If he doesn't work out it's a bigger deal, in my opinion.

 

2 weeks  ago when our rookie went down with an ACL they brought JR in.

 

CS6 was on borrowed time.

 

[Augie]

Let’s just GO FOR IT! 

[Just Joshin']

1 hour ago, StrikeParry said:

Hopefully this means McD grew a set and we’ll just go for it on 4th down all the time.

Brilliant.  This is not high school.

[Mr. WEO]

merge.....

[That's No Moon]

It's a little unnerving to know your punter is a person none of us have seen kick and your holder is person none of us have seen hold.  The way these kind of changes usually go is through a camp competition where we'd have a chance to see both players head to head.  If Bojoquez had kicked in pre-season it'd be easier to have a warm fuzzy about it.

 

Schmidt really wasn't very good and was extremely inconsistent in his own right.  Even last week, he pinned the Bears at the 1 then promptly shanked his next attempt (though he was bailed out by a friendly bounce).

 

The knock on Bojoquez is apprently placement which, admittedly is an issue.  If you have a coverage called to pin a guy in on the right and then the kick goes left you are very vulnerable to a big return.  One would also hope that bit is coachable.

 

I acknowledge your apprehension.  Hang in there.  Just think how tuned in you'll be to punts this weekend.

[Rochesterfan]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

It's like you and I are having completely separate conversations -- why are you talking about Corey Coleman? I am only referencing Corey Coleman to highlight the fact that they thought he might have potential and then obviously he did not. Do you disagree with that assessment? I think everyone can agree on that one.

So the question I am posing is: Given that presupposition how can we be so sure that the new punter on our team -- a rookie that has yet to play an NFL snap, that we just acquired off the waiver wire only 7 days before the regular season begins, will actually work out and be decent and serviceable? 

And I am answering: We can't, the emperor has no clothes, they are basically throwing darts at the board with entire positions. 

Most of the counter arguments go something like "LOL PUNTER" or some such but I find it fascinating none the less. I mean hey it's a grim reality but one we should acknowledge even if it's "just the punter position", it provides insight into the overall operations of an NFL club (ours, the one we care a lot about!)

 

 

I would totally disagree.  Colman had talent and potential- they wanted a shot to unlock it.  They saw that he was not making it and made adjustments.  That is what a team should do - not go oh well he is not going to give us what we need, but let’s keep him anyway and not try to get better.

 

They got a new punter at league minimum.  After week 1 they can easily go out and pick up Schmidt or Ryan or any of a handful of veterans without the guaranteed money sticking in.

 

This move was about money and for 1 week go ahead and complain- if the guy is better he sticks and if not they can move on.  It does give insight - the team is looking to improve even at the punter position.

 

The Bills are looking to get better and they are looking for talent - this is a way to get a guy in, save money, and leave the window open on multiple veteran punters that they can bring back with no guaranteed mony.

 

Don’t overthink this move. 

[bigK14094]

Do you suppose Bean had somebody watch this kid in Pats preseason practice?  I am guessing yes.....

[BillsFan692]

6 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Do you suppose Bean had somebody watch this kid in Pats preseason practice?  I am guessing yes.....

Just hopefully not the same guy who watched Corey Coleman, am I right?

[billieve420]

I seriously doubt our season lies on the foot of our new punter. So I am fine with the change as Schmidt wasn’t that good to begin with. Apparently the Pats kept him out of preseason games in hopes of stashing him on the practice squad. If it works out great if not go get another punter or even bring Schmidt back.

Edited September 3, 2018 by billieve420

[Green Lightning]

11 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

I seriously doubt our season lies on the foot of our new punter. So I am fine with the change as Schmidt wasn’t that good to begin with. Apparently the Pats kept him out of preseason games in hopes of stashing him on the practice squad. If it works out great if not go get another punter or even bring Schmidt back.

Until the new guy shanks a punt to our 24 yard line or bobbles the placement on a game winning field goal. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by Green Lightning

[mabden]

2 hours ago, brianthomas said:

they brought in Cory Carter.

 

 

I'm not worried at all & think its a good move

 

Carter would have won the job, IF he did not get hurt on that stupid roughing the kicker penalty.

 

Agreed, nothing to worry about and it looks like a good move. 

 

Bonus, we stuck it to NE Pats*****

[Bronxbomber21]

I would've stayed with the vet Ryan to play it safe

[jr1]

Terry's cheap

[billieve420]

26 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Until the new guy shanks a punt to our 24 yard line or bobbles the placement on a game winning field goal. 

 

How many times is that going to happen before he is replaced with someone else? If we are punting a bunch I doubt any of that will matter end of the day as we will probably be terrible.

 

i don’t mind McDermott replacing under performing players regardless how things play out. I wish he replaced 4/5ths of our offensive line unfortunately that is proving to be more difficult.

[B Fan in LA]

 

Hey man, RELAX........................

It's not like they hand the new punter a play book and tell him to start memorizing plays.

He does one freaking thing, receive the football cleanly, and then kick it................

 

Oh crap, that's two things............................anyway, forget all that..............

It's not like they cut Schmidt so he's gonna get signed by some other team 10 minutes later.

 

Punters are like sushi chefs........ you stick with yours and don't go to other places..............

 

If this new guy bombs, Colton will be available to come back..........I assure you of that!

The chances of him getting signed by somebody else are ZERO.

He's probably staying at an extended stay hotel in Buffalo for the season, just in case they call.

 

Now go get some much needed rest......................Scheeesch.....................kids....................

 

[joemac1114]

2 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

I think the point I was making got lost on you there, it was a very low risk move and who cares in the end. My point is that they were really wrong about him, couldn't they be really wrong about this rookie punter that has never played a snap before?  My larger point of course is that I consider this move to be more Risky than the Corey Coleman one, which was a very low risk who cares type of thing. 

I dont' really feel like the only punter on our team is a 'very low risk who cares type of thing' I feel like it's an important position, certainly not the most important but as noted in my original post, every position is ultimately an important one.

Taking  a flyer on a guy with great speed for a 7th round pick, doesn't show ineptitude on the part of Beane. Rather, it shows he was trying to improve the receiver position. Which everyone was complaining there were no speed guys. 

[bobblehead]

2 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

We only have 2 and this subject is at crisis level

Yes. The punter/punter thread situation at crisis level.  Because Corey Coleman sucked. 

[BillsFan692]

29 minutes ago, bobblehead said:

Yes. The punter/punter thread situation at crisis level.  Because Corey Coleman sucked. 

Way to put it all out there, bobblehead. Truly an inspirational post.

37 minutes ago, joemac1114 said:

Taking  a flyer on a guy with great speed for a 7th round pick, doesn't show ineptitude on the part of Beane. Rather, it shows he was trying to improve the receiver position. Which everyone was complaining there were no speed guys. 

Yeah sure, continual improvement is great -- but certainly the fact that Corey Coleman was trash and cut 2 weeks later shows that Bean misjudged the receiver. I mean sure he took a low-risk flyer on a guy that he thought may have had potential, but he was wrong and thankfully (and to his credit) it was low risk. 

Look I love bean and mcdermott, I'm a fan. I just don't think the actual punter position is as 'low risk' of a situation as Corey Coleman was -- although a lot of casual fans act like 'punter lol so what' but the truth is the punter like every other position on the team is an important one. With corey coleman, in that situation so what if he doesnt' work out, in this situation we won't even know at all what we have until the punter gets there -- heck he probably doesn't even know where the locker room is yet. We'll all find out if he's a good punter or not soon enough.... like on game day of the season opener.... YEESH.

And to the point of the original post, is this really how NFL clubs are run? Throwing darts at a board to fill the final position of your roster just 7 days before the start of a season opener? Just a bit shocking, don't you think?

 

Some have suggested that it is money related as the counter argument for the inexplicable nature of the entire situation -- I mean I suppose it's a plausible argument but I'm not so sure on that.

Edited September 3, 2018 by BillsFan692

[YattaOkasan]

You guys love punters so why not watch this 28 minute video of the kid.

I got through a bunch of kicks and damn he looks good. I love the fair catches on the 50 yarders. Also we love to talk about small schools.  This kid made the UNM ST look like all stars even against SEC competition. 

 

@BillsFan692 I agree they got the Coleman one wrong and others have made the point the cost wasn’t much. But I think they probably put more research on this punter than Coleman.  I feel like (someone who watches hard knocks can tell me) the Coleman trade was the Browns GM just calling Beane up to see if he wanted him. Beane said sure I have some spare change for a former 1st rounder. To steal a guy from under neath the hoodie requires research if he didn’t kick all preseason. 

 

It it was obvious they were moving on form Schmidt (agree carter would’ve won if not for injury). I’m pretty pumped for this kid but as has been said we will see. 

[Wagon Circler]

So let me see if I understand the OP.

BLAH BLAH BLAH COREY COLEMAN BLAH BLAH BLAH .

Is that about it?

[BillsFan692]

21 minutes ago, Wagon Circler said:

So let me see if I understand the OP.

BLAH BLAH BLAH COREY COLEMAN BLAH BLAH BLAH .

Is that about it?

Not at all. I'm not sure if it's a literacy issue or just comprehension in general but if you let me know I'd be happy to work with you on those issues.
 

21 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

You guys love punters so why not watch this 28 minute video of the kid.

I got through a bunch of kicks and damn he looks good. I love the fair catches on the 50 yarders. Also we love to talk about small schools.  This kid made the UNM ST look like all stars even against SEC competition. 

 

@BillsFan692 I agree they got the Coleman one wrong and others have made the point the cost wasn’t much. But I think they probably put more research on this punter than Coleman.  I feel like (someone who watches hard knocks can tell me) the Coleman trade was the Browns GM just calling Beane up to see if he wanted him. Beane said sure I have some spare change for a former 1st rounder. To steal a guy from under neath the hoodie requires research if he didn’t kick all preseason. 

 

It it was obvious they were moving on form Schmidt (agree carter would’ve won if not for injury). I’m pretty pumped for this kid but as has been said we will see. 

Yeah I am definitely hopeful that he is an upgrade and appreciate that video. Not really at all what I am pointing out or discussing -- which is rather the slap dash way in which we have arrived at our "solution" for punter just 7 days before the start of the regular season. 

And Corey Coleman who cares right? I mean so what. The only reason I'm ever mentioning Corey Coleman is simply to stave off the "Bean knows what he's doing he always gets it right trust the process" type of posts. Bean is pretty good in my personal opinion and I like him a lot, but it's foolish to pretend like he is always right and 100% knocks it out of the park on every pickup. 

Given that those truths are self evident (that we can't be certain about a guy until we have him in our hands for our own evaluation), is it not shocking that an NFL club would be making a move like this with a starting position just 7 days before the season kicks off? They must REALLY have not liked schmidt, because this is pretty risky move if the new rookie punter who has never even played a snap in the NFL isn't so hot.

I get that the punter isn't a glamorous position and it's definitely not the most important one, that doesn't mean it's not important at all. I can say for one thing there is no other position on the team where this "situation" would be appropriate. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by BillsFan692

[bobblehead]

6 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

  I feel like (someone who watches hard knocks can tell me) the Coleman trade was the Browns GM just calling Beane up to see if he wanted him. Beane said sure I have some spare change for a former 1st rounder. To steal a guy from under neath the hoodie requires research if he didn’t kick all preseason. 

 

 

There was definately a favor being called in, or something to that effect. It felt like something was up like that all along.  

 

[brianthomas]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Not at all, I'm not sure if it's a literacy issue or just comprehension but if you let me know I'm sure we can work through your issues together.

I'm curious, in all these posts questioning the competency of this staff for the way they addressed our punting situation, I haven't seen one of your thoughts on what you think they should've done differently. I've offered a few scenarios & addressed them in previous posts, but do you care to offer one yourself?

 

And regarding Corey Coleman, just because a player you take a flyer on doesnt pan out, it shouldn't serve as an indictment on their ability to evaluate talent. Perhaps if it were their own draft selections, such as say Josh Allen doesnt work out, or Tremaine Edmunds or if Tre White didnt, we could question their ability to judge talent. Because they invested time & significant draft capital pursuing those players. But with Corey Coleman it was just a stab in the dark. I think thats why you've been criticized so much for trying to make that comparison. They simply brought him in to see if a change of scenery would be a difference maker for him. It obviously wasnt & they parted ways with him.

 

And one final thought on that subject. Some times players just don't turn into what you hope they will be. Look at Corey Coleman for instance lol. Drafted by the Browns with the 15th pick of the 1st round. The Browns thought very highly of him & selected him but it didnt work out. Ryan Leaf, we all remember that name. Sometimes players are just busts. When teams draft players, theyre drafting very young men. Its a big transition coming from college & into the NFL. Theres no guarantees ever that a player is gonna work out.

[ddarlak]

Bills wanted to sign this kid but he went with the Patriots instead.

 

Bills waited until he was available and snapped him up.

 

As far as 7 days before season, so what, he's a punter.

[BillsFan692]

20 minutes ago, brianthomas said:

I'm curious, in all these posts questioning the competency of this staff for the way they addressed our punting situation, I haven't seen one of your thoughts on what you think they should've done differently. I've offered a few scenarios & addressed them in previous posts, but do you care to offer one yourself?

 

And regarding Corey Coleman, just because a player you take a flyer on doesnt pan out, it shouldn't serve as an indictment on their ability to evaluate talent. Perhaps if it were their own draft selections, such as say Josh Allen doesnt work out, or Tremaine Edmunds or if Tre White didnt, we could question their ability to judge talent. Because they invested time & significant draft capital pursuing those players. But with Corey Coleman it was just a stab in the dark. I think thats why you've been criticized so much for trying to make that comparison. They simply brought him in to see if a change of scenery would be a difference maker for him. It obviously wasnt & they parted ways with him.

 

And one final thought on that subject. Some times players just don't turn into what you hope they will be. Look at Corey Coleman for instance lol. Drafted by the Browns with the 15th pick of the 1st round. The Browns thought very highly of him & selected him but it didnt work out. Ryan Leaf, we all remember that name. Sometimes players are just busts. When teams draft players, theyre drafting very young men. Its a big transition coming from college & into the NFL. Theres no guarantees ever that a player is gonna work out.

I think Bean and McDermott are ahead of the curve, over all. They are competent enough and some of the best we have had in a while, I am really not on a crusade against them by any means. Still, even given those "warm feelings" I have for them, I can't help but find this situation to be mind boggling. If nothing else, it's just real eye opening to me about the way some of these things happen even at the most professional of levels.

As for my own solution to the "punter situation", if it was up to me and I was in charge of this decision -- I probably would have stuck with the guy I went all through off season with, minicamps OTA's, training camp and the actual pre-season, who also has been servicing the team in that position for 3-4 years, and if I was dead set on changing him I would have done it long before now, or I would ultimately wait until next season. Now I do understand they did try to bring in more camp bodies ahead of time to either A) improve schmidt or B) replace schmidt, but those guys just didn't work out.  Making this type of slap dash 'shoot from the hip' change to a final roster position just 7 days before the start of the regular season seems....  strange, mind boggling, and eye opening. 

But I suppose more then anything it speaks to their confidence level in what Schmidt was bringing to the table, I think in their minds maybe "They can't do worse" -- at least that's the only rational explanation I am able to come up with for these happenings.
 

18 minutes ago, ddarlak said:

Bills wanted to sign this kid but he went with the Patriots instead.

 

Bills waited until he was available and snapped him up.

 

As far as 7 days before season, so what, he's a punter.

Where did you read about the bills wanting to sign him before the patriots? I'd be curious to read up on more of that information -- that would probably change my thinking a bit. Also I have heard a few other posters mention 'stole him from under the hoodies nose'.. but I don't understand what they mean by that. I thought the patriots were not happy with this punter, that he was unable to 'earn any game time' because his performance at training camp and through the pre-season did not warrant any game time, was there some other information I missed on this topic?

Edited September 3, 2018 by BillsFan692

[Cheektowaga Chad]

My guess is if he looks bad in week one, ryan is signed to replace him for the rest of the season

[Norcalbillsfan]

I wonder if attitude had anything to do with it, it's not like he was an all pro. If he had a bad attitude or work ethic just being decent at your job won't keep you on the team. Just speculation, punters dont get a lot of media head lines.

[COTC]

It’s a head scratcher for sure. The timing is even more suspect. 

[eball]

Here's what happened.  The Pats*** punter stinks, but Belichick isn't going to just turn the job over to a rookie.  So they sign this Bojorquez kid and he's really good in practice.  But Belichick still isn't sure he's going to trust a rookie so he lets him practice but doesn't put him in games, and therefore nobody else gets tape on him.  At the end of preseason Belichick is still on the fence about turning the job over to a rookie but thinks he can slide Bo onto the PS because nobody has seen him kick.  Except Beane did his homework too because Schmidt hasn't been good and the Bills need to upgrade.

 

Bottom line:  Belichick's scheme failed, and while yes, the Bills are about to hand the job over to a kid who has never punted in an NFL game, they've got a week of practice with him and are willing to take the chance.  I like it.

[Wagon Circler]

Schmidt kind of stunk in the Bengal game, forcing their hand.

[BobChalmers]

11 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Teams do this all of the time. They cut and bring in new kickers all of the the time. The Adam Vinatieries and Shane Lechlers of the world are outliers. As Bills fans we have not had a lot of turnover in the kicking game for awhile because we had Moorman and Lindell all that time. It's standard operating procedure in the NFL. 

 

Remember before Lindell there was guys like Mike Hollis, Jake Arians etc etc. it happens. 

 

Shane Lechler was cut this weekend, btw!!

[Epstein's Mother]

I think I understand what the OP is getting at.  He's saying that Beane was hired to make roster decisions through the draft, trades and FA.  He further goes on to say that on balance he believes Beane is doing a passable job.  But, his main point is there are times (mainly the week before the regular season) when he should not attempt to upgrade the roster especially with a player that he is not familiar with. 

[HOUSE]

Answer: Don't punt