Why the hell didn't we address the OLINE?

[CommonCents]

I said Bodine sucked as soon as the Bills signed him. Bengals fans were so glad when he left. I thought Groy would be serviceable, if that was his max effort he is in deep dodo. He looked like a rag doll all day.

 

I thought the line would be excited for the rookies first start. They went out there and got manhandled. 

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Maj may have something here.  I thought Miller was going to be better and he has regressed even more. 

Waiver wire and maybe a trade.  They have excess at RB, QB, TE, P, and S.  Package a player and a pick to try and find a serviceable G somewhere.

 Yeah I am kinds Grasping a bit with Kicking Mills inside because no telling if that trasnition could happen. But I know he is OK at RT so maybe getting him in that phone booth he will excel ( ala Andy Levitre)

[Prickly Pete]

Anyone know vets that might be available? Guys that have been cut? 

 

They have to do something.

[Nihilarian]

7 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Last year they also had Tyrod Taylor who was afraid to throw the football and Dennison whose play calling had many girlfriends & wives of posters able to predict the play pre snap! 

 

The problem is the communication imo.  Which is coachable. Woods was the big loss . He runs the line, calls the shifts ,etc and this QB and C competition didn't help  We now have 2 weeks to get some chemistry on that OL..

 

I know what we just witnessed was depressing, embarrassing and a disaster but McD clearly was shuffling the line mid game (another reason for the confusion, terrible communication) to make a final assessment . These factors won't be a problem week 1

7

The problem isn't just communication or lack thereof as it's more about lack of talent across the line. Dawkins looked decent last year because he had pro bowl Incognito next to him and this year he doesn't. Plus, now he probably needs to help whom ever is playing LG. 

 

You can't expect to replace three pro bowl players with backups/scrubs and have anywhere near the same success. Dawkins is about the only line player I have any hope for this season.

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

The problem isn't just communication or lack thereof as it's more about lack of talent across the line. Dawkins looked decent last year because he had pro bowl Incognito next to him and this year he doesn't. Plus, now he probably needs to help whom ever is playing LG. 

 

You can't expect to replace three pro bowl players with backups/scrubs and have anywhere near the same success. Dawkins is about the only line player I have any hope for this season.

Dawkins didn't play for a reason. I'm guessing because the coaches know what he provides , and that's quality LT play. I'd bet the house the ol looks way different come week 1

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, Kmart128 said:

I mean they tried... Just didn't have the money. We signed Newhouse and Bodine... and drafted Tellar. We tried to address it with what we had. Trading up twice in the first round hurt our draft picks we had.

Signing two guys ranked as one of the worst at their positions is not trying. Whaley was amazing at signings like that, and Beane is obviously lacking. They might want to hire a good pro personnel guy to help.

[MAJBobby]

This is a complete FO failure. They knew about Eric. Addressed it with Bodine/Groy (thats fine with the way Groy looked). 

 

Then Richie went into Crazy mode and DID NADA there. 

 

Ducasse needed to be replaced anyway but with Richie doing off the reservation now two OGs were needed and they sat on thier hands. 

 

I also know it is year 2 of a rebuild and the playoffs where a gift last year. But once again i see similiar mistakes in how this team is being built yet again. 

 

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, OJ Tom said:

Anyone know vets that might be available? Guys that have been cut? 

 

They have to do something.

 

Alex Boone and Zane Beadles for vet guards are available. 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, October 1918 said:

To point out the obvious, the interior of the O-line can't pass block at all. None of them. We can probably get by with Miller, but we're in big trouble at Center (they both suck) and left guard (ideally, we need Teller to win the job).

 

 

Between 2015-2017, the Bills generally had some good pieces to shore up the clunkers on the OL, namely Wood, Incognito, and Glenn.  That's how most NFL teams operate: better OLers help the lesser OLers play better.  The Bills problem is that they don't have ANY good OLers except perhaps Dion Dawkins, whose play has probably declined somewhat since he's no longer got Pro Bowler Richie Incognito playing inside him.

36 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

 

 

Beane was not here for the 2017 draft.  Repeat, Beane was not here yet when they took Zay.   This is a recording..........

 

McDermott was, however.  Essentially, Whaley was a subservient to both Ryan and McDermott, especially in the draft.   Just as Ryan dictated to Whaley, so McDermott dictated to Whaley.   Maybe Beane is subservient to McDermott or maybe they're on the same wavelength.  Obviously, the current Bills regime, however it's structured, doesn't care much, if at all, about the offensive side of the ball.

[Misterbluesky]

2 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Bean overpaid for the two #1's.....gave up a slew of 2's and 3's that could have rebuilt some positions of need like OL.  imho.

But the fan base demanded the organization to rid of Taylor and begin a new chapter,yet again,with a fresh young QB.We can't have our cake and eat it too,since we are not the queen of England.It's part of the process,I guess.We have a full set of picks next April and about 70 million in savings.Rome wasn't built overnight.We have many holes on this team ,there was no way we could have filled all of them..especially because we never planned to be without Wood and Richie.....those two key losses were our offensive "Death Blow"

[Nihilarian]

25 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Dawkins didn't play for a reason. I'm guessing because the coaches know what he provides , and that's quality LT play. I'd bet the house the ol looks way different come week 1

The Buffalo Bills had one of the very best left tackles in the league in Jason Peters and yet the line still stunk because he is only one player and can really only help himself and perhaps help out the LG somewhat. 

 

The main problem with the line against the starting defenses the last two games was not at LT but mostly at OC, OG positions and the overall line actually managed to run the ball at times. That will stop once teams stack the box to stop the run and dare to beat them with the pass. Plus, last time I looked the Bengals and Browns didn't field a top ten defense.

 

If Bills fans think things look bleak now just wait until they play the Ravens, Chargers, Vikings to start the season.

[dpberr]

I tink these OL problems chalk up to two centers having a very difficult time learning this offense. Looks like five men lost and in panic.

 

They are zagging when the defense zigs.

 

 

 

 

 

[BuffaloButt]

Other team OL guys that get cut will be better than what we've got so we better be looking and make some changes.  Most of our OL guys have shown they are not starting calibur. 

[JerseyBills]

26 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The Buffalo Bills had one of the very best left tackles in the league in Jason Peters and yet the line still stunk because he is only one player and can really only help himself and perhaps help out the LG somewhat. 

 

The main problem with the line against the starting defenses the last two games was not at LT but mostly at OC, OG positions and the overall line actually managed to run the ball at times. That will stop once teams stack the box to stop the run and dare to beat them with the pass. Plus, last time I looked the Bengals and Browns didn't field a top ten defense.

 

If Bills fans think things look bleak now just wait until they play the Ravens, Chargers, Vikings to start the season.

Solid points. Nonetheless , I guess you put way more into scrimmages than I do. 

 

The same Chargers team that looked far worse than the Bills and lost 34-7 in their scrimmage? Since you're basing so much off of our game, shouldn't the same be done for them?  

 

You'd think after last year when this board had the same predictions for a 9 win Bills team , you'd learn.. It's the NFL my man , imo I think McDermott is too good a coach to field an awful team 

 

 

[stuvian]

I'm sure things will be better with Dawkins playing but we'd be naive to think we'd get a franchise QB and Pro Bowl OL in the same year

[CLTbills]

3 hours ago, October 1918 said:

To point out the obvious, the interior of the O-line can't pass block at all. None of them. We can probably get by with Miller, but we're in big trouble at Center (they both suck) and left guard (ideally, we need Teller to win the job).

 

There was one early in the game, may have been the first one, Groy looked like a high school kid playing in his first game. It was embarrassing to watch.

[Foreigner]

A lot of smart people have said a lot of smart things on this subject and most are correct, but the bottom line

is the OL is broken and can't or won't be fixed this year, but stop talking about next year. The NFL is a now league. 

We may run out of QBs before the season is half over. This line couldn't protect my mother.

[frostbitmic]

If we start the same interior linemen that started today we may set a record for most QB's starting in a year.

 

After watching that pitiful display today does anyone still want to carry just 2 QB's on the roster ?

[Inigo Montoya]

2 hours ago, Foreigner said:

A lot of smart people have said a lot of smart things on this subject and most are correct, but the bottom line

is the OL is broken and can't or won't be fixed this year, but stop talking about next year. The NFL is a now league. 

We may run out of QBs before the season is half over. This line couldn't protect my mother.

 

Let's see what happens when the league makes their 53 man roster cuts next week.  There will be a handful of serviceable veteran O lineman across the league who get released because their particular team decides to go with a younger, cheaper player that they feel can step in and do the job.  We don't need a long term solution on the O-line right now, we just need a serviceable stop gap player (or three).  An older vet(s) with a little bit of gas left in the tank might be able to step in and help us out this year.

 

I think Buffalo will be an attractive destination for a vet with a year or two of playing time left because Buffalo will offer the one thing that most other places won't... playing time.  Is this situation optimal?  Hell no...  Is it probably our best chance to bolster the O-line before we get all three of our QBs killed?  Hell yes...

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Inigo Montoya

[Dadonkadonk]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

I'm sure things will be better with Dawkins playing but we'd be naive to think we'd get a franchise QB and Pro Bowl OL in the same year

Why? Edmunds is supposed to be ProBowl MLB in the future.  Do you think ProBowl players only come in the first round? 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Who was that guy we had that beat up those teenagers ?? We need him back.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[John from Riverside]

20 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Let's see what happens when the league make their 53 man roster cuts next week.  There will be a handful of serviceable veteran O lineman across the league who get released because their particular team decides to go with a younger, cheaper player that they feel can step in and do the job.  We don't need a long term solution on the O-line right now, we just need a serviceable stop gap player (or three).  An older vet(s) with a little bit of gas left in the tank might be able to step in and help us out this year.

 

I think Buffalo will be an attractive destination for a vet with a year or two of playing time left because Buffalo will offer the one thing that most other places won't... playing time.  Is this situation optimal?  Hell no...  Is it probably our best chance to bolster the O-line before we get all three of our QBs killed?  Hell yes...

 

 

Im not ducking flying pigs just yet....but I will say that it is frustrating that my eye sees Decausse is absolutely dreadful....and for a guy his size gets on roller skates as soon as he faces a quality interior linemen.....its pretty bad.   If a OG is cut that has ANYTHING left I hope we are making a serious play for him.

[Paulus]

Can Star play OG?

[Boatdrinks]

Trouble is there won’t be any cuts until the week before the regular season, most likely. Not much time to work anyone in. This line looks like it could be as bad as the ‘97 Bills with Clod Tollins at QB.  Man, that OL was putrid. 

[Yeezus]

5 hours ago, Kmart128 said:

I mean they tried... Just didn't have the money. We signed Newhouse and Bodine... and drafted Tellar. We tried to address it with what we had. Trading up twice in the first round hurt our draft picks we had.

 

lol none of those players make the bench for a majority of NFL teams buddy 

[Inigo Montoya]

12 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Trouble is there won’t be any cuts until the week before the regular season, most likely. Not much time to work anyone in. This line looks like it could be as bad as the ‘97 Bills with Clod Tollins at QB.  Man, that OL was putrid. 

 

Agree 100% Boatdrinks...   Even if we can snag a couple decent free agents after the cut downs it will take time for them to gel.  That's why I'm hoping that they keep Allen on the sidelines for the first few weeks and let Peterman take the reins.  I think Peterman won the starting job outright anyways. (don't want to start an argument about that point here)  As for the value of what Peterman has won, that's another matter all together.  He may have won himself a First Class ticket to injured reserve with our current O-line...

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Inigo Montoya

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Agree 100% Boatdrinks...   Even if we can snag a couple decent free agents after the cut downs it will take time for them to gel.  That's why I'm hoping that they keep Allen on the sidelines for the first few weeks and let Peterman take the reins.  I think Peterman won the starting job outright anyways. (don't want to start an argument about that point here)  As for the value of what Peterman has won, that's another matter all together.  He may have won himself a First Class ticket to injured reserve with our current O-line...

 

 

I think there is a arguement to be made that Peterman has done enough to earn the start against Baltimore......he is obviously improved over his play last year and behind what looks like worse protection.

 

This should not be a knock against Allen....whos time is going to come.....Peterman's QB rating has been outstanding.....I worry about certain passes because he floats them bad but he makes quick decisions....is accurate....and gets the ball out on a 2 to 3 step drop.

 

Let the OL get worked out and start Peterman......Nathan Peterman is going to be an excellent backup QB for us when Josh steps onto the field as the starter.

[stuvian]

5 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Why? Edmunds is supposed to be ProBowl MLB in the future.  Do you think ProBowl players only come in the first round? 

No, because as a Bills fan I have learned to keep expectations modest

[Kmart128]

5 hours ago, Yeezus said:

 

lol none of those players make the bench for a majority of NFL teams buddy 

 

What are you talking about? Bodine has been a starter for the Bengals for 4 years and never missed a game... He was never on a bench let alone never didn't make the bench. Newhouse was a starter last year for the Raiders and has been a starter on 4 different teams... You say they wouldn't even make an NFL bench when they've been starters throughout their careers. I'm not saying they are good starters but saying they wouldn't even make an NFL bench is laughable buddy.

[freeagentqb]

At this point the offense will have to game plan around these guys as they're not up to the competition.  Need moving pockets, draws, play action and other wrinkles to compensate.

[mannc]

Can we now put to bed the silly idea of trading next year’s first and third round picks to Oakland for another defensive player?  The value of that first rounder spiked after yesterday.

[mjt328]

1.  We didn't have much cap space, so all of our Free Agent signings were bargain-bin castoffs.  Specifically Russell Bodine to replace Eric Wood at Center, and Marshall Newhouse to compete with Jordan Mills at Right Tackle.

 

2.  Eric Wood's retirement was unexpected.  But at least it happened in January.  The Ritchie Incognito retirement was an even bigger shock, and didn't happen until the earl/mid of April.  By that point, the team was already wrapping up Free Agency and looking towards the draft.

 

3.  The Bills used their premium Day 1 picks on their two biggest needs.  Quarterback and Middle Linebacker.  Nobody can fault them for that. 

 

4.  Their next picks were used to fill Defensive Tackle, Cornerback and Wide Receiver, which were also massively huge needs.  They finally followed that up with O-Line, getting guard Wyatt Teller.  By that point, we were already through the 5th Round of the Draft.

 

 

We only had so many resources.

 

 

[jahbonas]

Its the price of trading up for Josh Allen.  Traded away LT Gordy Glenn  and then traded away 2 picks in rd2 that could provided OL help

[Nihilarian]

13 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Coaching can only get you so far if you don't have talent.

 

The Bills lacked talent last year but they didn't turn the ball over and were efficient on offense(thanks to whipping boy Tyrod Taylor) and an opportunistic defense.(better coaching from McDermott)

 

The offensive line lost two solid interior linemen and replaced them with worse players and Tyrods gone. 

 

They will lose 10 to 12 games this year, IMO.

1

I agree as Bills fans need to think of this season of 16 games with Peterman playing last years Chargers game over and over. The Bills have played the Bengals, Browns so far and neither are near the level of the Vikings, Chargers or Ravens defense wise. Scary stuff.

 

OTOH, If an assclown like Buddy Nix can find Pears and Urbik off of the waiver wire in 2010 to save the season I suspect Beane can do even better. This team is desperate for a quality center and two guards. That right tackle position could stand to be upgraded too. JMHO

 

If this FO wants to save this season and their new franchise QB, Beane had better move heaven and earth to make a trade somehow. 

5 hours ago, jahbonas said:

Its the price of trading up for Josh Allen.  Traded away LT Gordy Glenn  and then traded away 2 picks in rd2 that could provided OL help

They traded Tyrod so Allen was a must. Besides Glenn is already injured again. 

 

I'm not going to fault this FO for going after Edmunds but that is the pick that could have translated into some quality O linemen. 

[T master]

Bodine is a depth player at best from anything i have read from a Bengals site the job should be Groys to loose & just for the simple fact that Mills, & Ducasse are still pencilled in as starters makes me wonder about the competency of Castillo as the O line coach !!

 

He's not shown anything in a while that can prove he is a coach they need to keep to move into the future they are striving for I hope they can see that sooner rather than later !! 

 

Ducasse & Mills need to be traded out for Teller & Gerhard or the other guy they picked up from NE's practice squad if they are going to be bad on the O line don't let it be because of a vet that has a proven bad playing history go with a kid that could have a higher potential ... At least that way they have the excuse of the unknown on their side !! 

[jahbonas]

On 8/27/2018 at 1:05 PM, Nihilarian said:

I agree as Bills fans need to think of this season of 16 games with Peterman playing last years Chargers game over and over. The Bills have played the Bengals, Browns so far and neither are near the level of the Vikings, Chargers or Ravens defense wise. Scary stuff.

 

OTOH, If an assclown like Buddy Nix can find Pears and Urbik off of the waiver wire in 2010 to save the season I suspect Beane can do even better. This team is desperate for a quality center and two guards. That right tackle position could stand to be upgraded too. JMHO

 

If this FO wants to save this season and their new franchise QB, Beane had better move heaven and earth to make a trade somehow. 

They traded Tyrod so Allen was a must. Besides Glenn is already injured again. 

 

I'm not going to fault this FO for going after Edmunds but that is the pick that could have translated into some quality O linemen. 

 

 

As an option to Allen -  Teddy Bridgewater was there and could have decided to go Bridgewater & Peterman  and then have a 1st  & 2   2nds  to add  (2 OL & 1 LB)

[Nihilarian]

17 hours ago, jahbonas said:

 

 

As an option to Allen -  Teddy Bridgewater was there and could have decided to go Bridgewater & Peterman  and then have a 1st  & 2   2nds  to add  (2 OL & 1 LB)

Don't get wrong here as I love the Allen pick and was advocating for him long before many were even aware of him. I just don't care to see him ruined before he has a chance to develop. Allen was the right pick it's just that he is a bit of a project and needs some time to develop or a very stout line/run game to help him develop quicker.

As of now, it looks like the Bills have neither as teams will stack the box to stop the run and force the pass...then blitz when they do pass.  Peterman should start the season as QB. 

 

Beane needs to do some magic and conjure up a quality center, left/right guard, and right tackle. What's crazy is Dawkins was drafted to replace Mills at RT because he was a liability and now the weaker links are the inside linemen.

 

As for Bridgewater, he was an unknown due to his severe knee injury and nobody knows if he will ever hold up in a 16 game season. 

[BeginnersMind]

In response to the topic title "Why the hell didn't we address the O-Line?" 

 

First, consider the cap situation this year. It's terrible for the Bills, who are still paying a lot of dead cap space. It gets better next year. 

 

Second, last year and this, the Bills need:

 

QB, at least a couple if not 3 LB positions, all DL positions, backup RB, WRs, P, and then ... 2 pro bowl O-linemen retire. 

 

You can't fix the train wreck Whaley left behind in a year. They upgraded the LB some. They have a QB to groom. They tried to fix DL with limited cap hit with Star and Murphy. They got a decent RB. 

 

The WRs and OL got the least attention, not because they don't matter, but because there's only so much you can do. 

 

This rebuild of the dreck left behind by Whaley is going to take 3-4 years and in those years, we're going to see a lot of Star and Murphy types in and out as the Bills try to manage the cap.