QCity Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: I think the real question is "would you draft Khalil Mack with next year's first rounder?" That's really not the situation at all. He's not 23 yrs old and we're not getting 5 years of control over him on a rookie deal. The question is how much do you give up for a DPOY that, when he's 28 yrs old next year, is going to want a $125M+ contract with $80M+ guaranteed. That certainly muddies the water a bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly101 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Imho there's zero chance of raiders letting him go, would be the worst move ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeIGiveADarn Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 1 hour ago, FearLess Price said: Yeah so you cant blame Gruden. Blame whoever made his contract witout accounting for maks salary. A good head coach is worth more than 1 player in most cases tho Gruden isn't helping the situation with his comments to the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 21 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: La Conjecture strikes again! 2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said: Then stand him up and make him a LB where he was already an all pro Not in the Bills current system. He's basically a 1v1 swap with Jerry Hughes, so the question is how much better than Hughes is he and how much money/ trade capital is that improvement worth. Personally, I'm dubious that the upgrade would be worth what that they'd have to give up for him. I would imagine Hughes plus a #1, minimum. Next year's #1 might be a very high pick where you could get a guy like Mack without having to give Hughes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, vincec said: La Conjecture strikes again! Not in the Bills current system. He's basically a 1v1 swap with Jerry Hughes, so the question is how much better than Hughes is he and how much money/ trade capital is that improvement worth. Personally, I'm dubious that the upgrade would be worth what that they'd have to give up for him. I would imagine Hughes plus a #1, minimum. Next year's #1 might be a very high pick where you could get a guy like Mack without having to give Hughes up. Next year’s #1 could also be a VERY good pass rusher (given the draft class), who would come at a fraction of what Mack would cost. One more consideration. I’m glad we have our FO to figure this all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 59 minutes ago, vincec said: La Conjecture strikes again! Not in the Bills current system. He's basically a 1v1 swap with Jerry Hughes, so the question is how much better than Hughes is he and how much money/ trade capital is that improvement worth. Personally, I'm dubious that the upgrade would be worth what that they'd have to give up for him. I would imagine Hughes plus a #1, minimum. Next year's #1 might be a very high pick where you could get a guy like Mack without having to give Hughes up. Why couldn't he play lb in our current system? Lorenzo Alexander does and Mack is way better in coverage. He has good speed and instincts. He can play both ends and all lb positions and could be a very good lb in our system but the contract would be huge for a 43 olb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxbomber21 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Would love to see Mack in a Bills jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Of course they did. The real questions are what do we trade and is he worth the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 At 27, how many more all pro years does he have left? 5? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 If there is even a chance you trade the motherload.... we have the QB, now we can have the QB of the defense who actually wants to be here, I can't even talk football with those who even mention jerry Hughes and Khalil Mack in the same breath, Mack has 40.5 sacks in 4 seasons and Hughes has 39.5 in 8, there is no real comparison at all, the pass rush we'd have would be unreal with Murphy, Mack and Louteleilei up the middle and meatball when he comes back. It probably wouldn't transpire anyways but people even questioning this is just hilarious to me. Maybe we need to relive the 2 Superbowls with new England/Giants, ask the Giants if they regretted the contracts of Strahan or JPP which I'm sure both were pretty high at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Kelly101 said: Imho there's zero chance of raiders letting him go, would be the worst move ever. The Raiders may not end up trading him but the mere fact that they're talking to other clubs tells you that there is definitely more than a "zero chance". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 His age alone doesn't fit with what we're trying to build IMO...same reason why the Sabres had no problem getting rid of O'Reilly because of the ages of the core being 19-22 years old. Doesn't make sense to give up draft picks and spend a ton of $$$$ on a guy who will be "old" once the young core they are building here are all in their prime years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, Augie said: I’d bet on the man with his own Brinks truck. I’ll say it again, even a decade ago Gruden wore people out, especially players. Too many players thought he was a weasel and had bad things to say from his Bucs days. I’m sure some liked him, but....I don’t see this as a big win for Raiders fans. ...NEITHER is Mark Davis........ Edited August 25, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 8/23/2018 at 11:26 PM, Happy Gilmore said: Lost in all this is the fact that Gruden is about to make the Raiders a worse team, and he hasn't even coached a game in his second stint with them. I see Chuckie fired in 2-3 years. Not think so. The Raiders do not have the money to pay out rest of that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Gruden is saying now that the Raiders might not have a back up QB (I could have told him that). Maybe we can throw in his choice of Peterman or a Mccarron with Shaq/Hughes and a 1st. If we learned anything from Gruden as a commentator, he loves every player in the league. He might be interested. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 8/23/2018 at 10:36 PM, njbuff said: Is this going to be the steamy subject now? If or until JA even slightly stumbles tomorrow. Then sentiment will immediately swing to us being in QB hell again and how we immediately need to draft the best quarterback next year AND trade for Rogers. Obviously we can no longer fit Mack under the cap at that point. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Gruden is saying now that the Raiders might not have a back up QB (I could have told him that). Maybe we can throw in his choice of Peterman or a Mccarron with Shaq/Hughes and a 1st. If we learned anything from Gruden as a commentator, he loves every player in the league. He might be interested. That was mentioned earlier in the thread. Gruden loves Peterman. This might all be waiting on Sunday's game. If Allen plays well and secures the starting role, the very trade you suggest might go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 14 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said: Why couldn't he play lb in our current system? Lorenzo Alexander does and Mack is way better in coverage. He has good speed and instincts. He can play both ends and all lb positions and could be a very good lb in our system but the contract would be huge for a 43 olb. Lorenzo Alexander is basically a 1 down LB that plays on rushing downs. He is a liability in pass coverage, as Mack would be if he played off the ball. That's fine for Lorax because of his age and heavy involvement with special teams but using Mack like that would be a complete waste of his ability. He needs to be a 3-4 OLB or RDE in a 4-3 so that he can stay on the field. He is basically an improved Jerry Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 3 hours ago, BillsPride12 said: His age alone doesn't fit with what we're trying to build IMO...same reason why the Sabres had no problem getting rid of O'Reilly because of the ages of the core being 19-22 years old. Doesn't make sense to give up draft picks and spend a ton of $$$$ on a guy who will be "old" once the young core they are building here are all in their prime years. That's one take. Another is that when Chuck Knox built a playoff team by their third year he did it by building through the draft but he also brought in some older vets as "rah rah" guys like ex-Rams LBer Isiah Robertson, ex-Steelers WR Frank Lewis to bring in leadership to that young team. I realize the team already has Kyle Williams, although this might be his last season. In my view, there is no timetable for a talent like Mack as he will instantly change the dynamic of the defense with his pass rush. The Bills already have a top secondary but it won't be as effective if there is little or no pass rush. With Mack, opponents will game plan around stopping him and from what I've seen that won't be happening. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 ....Jason should be along shortly with expert update and explicit details............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Quick question that will provide many answers. Are the same folks that hated the diaries trade the same folks questioning why Mack would be bad for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Limeaid said: Not think so. The Raiders do not have the money to pay out rest of that contract. That’s true, but I think we’re about to witness an epic, Browns-like dumpster fire in Oakland. It could get very ugly. 1 hour ago, The Red King said: That was mentioned earlier in the thread. Gruden loves Peterman. This might all be waiting on Sunday's game. If Allen plays well and secures the starting role, the very trade you suggest might go through. Please...I wish that were true, but no matter what Peterman does in these preseason games, he will have close to zero trade value until he lights it up in some real games. He might well get cut or stashed on the PS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I would not support any trade for Mack that involves Peterman. If Gruden needs a qb as part of the deal, he can have McCarron (don't want to lose McCarron, either, but if it means getting Mack, then yes). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Just now, ChasBB said: I would not support any trade for Mack that involves Peterman. If Gruden needs a qb as part of the deal, he can have McCarron (don't want to lose McCarron, either, but if it means getting Mack, then yes). You'd let a limited backup QB prevent the Bills from getting a dominant pass rushing DE ? I'm not sure how this makes any sense at all. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I’d be extremely happy if it was Peterman, Shaq Lawson 2 2s, a 3 for Mack and a 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 18 hours ago, QCity said: That's really not the situation at all. He's not 23 yrs old and we're not getting 5 years of control over him on a rookie deal. The question is how much do you give up for a DPOY that, when he's 28 yrs old next year, is going to want a $125M+ contract with $80M+ guaranteed. That certainly muddies the water a bit. how do you know what he wants in a contract? If that is what he is asking, he's going to be disappointed. No one will pay that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 He can be a strong side linebacker and a defensive end on passing Downs he is an all pro at 2 positions and an absolute force. People act like he is old at 27 lol he will be a stud till he is 35 lol the most dominate college player I have ever witnessed with my own eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: He can be a strong side linebacker and a defensive end on passing Downs he is an all pro at 2 positions and an absolute force. People act like he is old at 27 lol he will be a stud till he is 35 lol the most dominate college player I have ever witnessed with my own eyes Do you know of any with the contract that Mack will require? I like Mack, and he is versatile, but his value lies in getting after the QB. I would think he would be a DE for us, with the versatility to occasionally drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, QCity said: That's really not the situation at all. He's not 23 yrs old and we're not getting 5 years of control over him on a rookie deal. The question is how much do you give up for a DPOY that, when he's 28 yrs old next year, is going to want a $125M+ contract with $80M+ guaranteed. That certainly muddies the water a bit. ....here's my dopey Cliff Notes version assessment....BOTH Mack and Donald are shopping for "NORTH of Von Miller+ money"....if their clubs do it or if their clubs have to find willing trade partners to pull it off doesn't make a rat's azz bit of difference to them...HOWEVER, with it being doubtful so far that it could be their current clubs, it's much easier said than done.....major draft capital and major dollars are in the mix IMO....buyers??...stay tuned.......... Edited August 25, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, SWATeam said: Do you know of any with the contract that Mack will require? I like Mack, and he is versatile, but his value lies in getting after the QB. I would think he would be a DE for us, with the versatility to occasionally drop. being a strong side linebacker on 1st down would only help our defense he can still get tons of sacks on 2nd and third down Edited August 25, 2018 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) I still can’t decide if it’s a good idea or not for the bills...I’m still trying to figure out how they are going to getting a starting OG, C, and WR next year Edited August 25, 2018 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 3 hours ago, vincec said: Lorenzo Alexander is basically a 1 down LB that plays on rushing downs. He is a liability in pass coverage, as Mack would be if he played off the ball. That's fine for Lorax because of his age and heavy involvement with special teams but using Mack like that would be a complete waste of his ability. He needs to be a 3-4 OLB or RDE in a 4-3 so that he can stay on the field. He is basically an improved Jerry Hughes. Him moving to 43 olb would be after his skills diminish which is what I was replying to in your original post. He can do it but I'm not saying he should, pass rushers are much more valuable than coverage LBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack are vying to be the #1 defender in the league and want paid as such. Right now its Von Miller. I think $114M... So yes both want to be the highest paid. What if Mack sign x amount say, 5 year $120M, $65M guarantee and then Donald signs a 5 year $130M $80 guarantee... then 1 will feel slighted. Thing is, to be honest I don’t think the Rams nor the Raiders want to commit to that kind of contract. Not after the Raiders just signed Carr and Rams will be looking to extend Goff next soon. I truly think Donald and Mack know they aren’t gonna get what they want, both will more than likely be on new teams next year. That being said... they should be serious about trading. Even then I don’t see teams giving away a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 1 minute ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said: Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack are vying to be the #1 defender in the league and want paid as such. Right now its Von Miller. I think $114M... So yes both want to be the highest paid. What if Mack sign x amount say, 5 year $120M, $65M guarantee and then Donald signs a 5 year $130M $80 guarantee... then 1 will feel slighted. Thing is, to be honest I don’t think the Rams nor the Raiders want to commit to that kind of contract. Not after the Raiders just signed Carr and Rams will be looking to extend Goff next soon. I truly think Donald and Mack know they aren’t gonna get what they want, both will more than likely be on new teams next year. That being said... they should be serious about trading. Even then I don’t see teams giving away a bunch. ...Miller set the bar....cross it if you dare.....pretty much what it boils down to IMO.............. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...Miller set the bar....cross it if you dare.....pretty much what it boils down to IMO.............. True. I don’t see a DT getting there. Yeah Donald is a beast but he’s not Von Miller as far as getting to the QB, and Mack is the closest but he’s getting older and I truly don’t see the Raiders forking up nearly $50M per year on 2 players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Nihilarian said: That's one take. Another is that when Chuck Knox built a playoff team by their third year he did it by building through the draft but he also brought in some older vets as "rah rah" guys like ex-Rams LBer Isiah Robertson, ex-Steelers WR Frank Lewis to bring in leadership to that young team. I realize the team already has Kyle Williams, although this might be his last season. In my view, there is no timetable for a talent like Mack as he will instantly change the dynamic of the defense with his pass rush. The Bills already have a top secondary but it won't be as effective if there is little or no pass rush. With Mack, opponents will game plan around stopping him and from what I've seen that won't be happening. Don't forget about ex-Raiders LB Phil Villapiano. 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: You'd let a limited backup QB prevent the Bills from getting a dominant pass rushing DE ? I'm not sure how this makes any sense at all. Check out his avatar. That should tell you all you need to know... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, ExWNYer said: Check out his avatar. That should tell you all you need to know... And just like that @26CornerBlitz, he changed his avatar from Peterman to Allen. ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ExWNYer said: And just like that @26CornerBlitz, he changed his avatar from Peterman to Allen. ??? The previous was also Allen. Nervous Nate? Never! Edited August 25, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The previous one was also Allen. Nervous Nate? Never! Didn't mean you changed from Peterman to Allen. He did. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Just now, ExWNYer said: Didn't mean you changed from Peterman to Allen. He did. ? Nope. He still has Peterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts