Joe B: Adolphus Washington has played poorly in TC and may be cut

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The real issue with Adolphis is; Kyle, Star and the rook are locks.  

 

The real issue is on the field in actual games Adolphus has... well... sucked

 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Whaley bashing in jest is ok though isn’t it? 

 

Reality is the guy has an eye for talent, but building a team?  Not quite so sure. Sammy is a fine example.  All the talent in the world- but so far he’s been found expendable by two teams... what’s the prediction he plays out his whole deal in kc? 

 

The new guys seem to prioritize team and scheme over talent. Time will tell how well it works. 

 

The real issue with Adolphis is; Kyle, Star and the rook are locks.  

Dude definitely had his faults but he got us some serious talent.  In a perfect world, I like the combo of Whaley/ McDermott because it feels like Beane is just a figurehead and it’s all McDermott making the calls. If Allen is a hit, they are geniuses 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1). I agree you shouldn’t trade up for a receiver in the first.  But Sammy was the clear 1 and thought to have Julio ability.  Also, he is getting paid $16 million dollars by one of the best offensive coaches in the nfl.  Do you think Zay will ever command that much?

 

2) we traded up to get Zay because we hired his wr coach and JuJu was still on the board.  

 

3). We gave up a good amount to get Allen.  If any of the qbs end up being better than him, it looks like a bad move.  

 

I try to be consistent.  I think trading up was the worse part of Whaley as a GM.  So I don’t like the trade ups with the new regime.  If Allen become a stud, who cares.  But I do think a general rule of thumb for GMs is don’t trade up unless it’s for a qb.  And if you do that, you better get the right one.  You want as many chances at the lottery as possible.

 

Since you mention trading up, Whaley had some nice trade downs. Consider with the bills first 2013 pick they picked up Shady + one year of a nearly DROY MLB. That’s acceptable 

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

I read this article yesterday and it didn't say he was "likely" to be cut.  It said, he was in danger of being cut if he didn't turn the corner. 

 

"Based on what we saw last year from Washington and what we've seen so far in training camp, I would not at all be surprised if Washington ends up on the wrong side of the roster bubble when final cuts come down at the end of the preseason. He needs to turn it around and quickly before it's too late."

  

 If I remember it correctly, I think Joe B. had the same exact narrative about Adolphus last year and the guy ended up playing the second most snaps on the defensive line.  

 

Good point.  But,  to be fair, the D line last year was abysmal against the run.  So with a guy like Phillips ahead of him. A. Washington could be cut.  Esp. if a better player is cut from another team or becomes available.  

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

Weird how different people have such different takes on the same player.  Joe B has also said:

 

To this point in training camp, Washington has been mainly invisible and has only one win during 1-on-1 drills out of a total of 10 tries. His only win by my count came against rookie Wyatt Teller, and the remainder of the time right guard John Miller has dominated him on most reps. If you combine his lack of a presence early on with the fact that the Bills have already started giving Harrison Phillips work at Washington's three-technique position, it all is not adding up well for the past Doug Whaley selection. 

 

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-7-observations-from-2018-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-5

 

These 1 on 1's seem difficult to grade for me.  There is another narrative that Miller is MUCH IMPROVED.  So, is Washington bad, or is Miller dominant?  

 

How's Miller looking against Phillips?  

 

Can't wait for preseason games!!!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude definitely had his faults but he got us some serious talent.  In a perfect world, I like the combo of Whaley/ McDermott because it feels like Beane is just a figurehead and it’s all McDermott making the calls. If Allen is a hit, they are geniuses 

 

I thought that was the plan. Whaley is a process guy too, or at least talked the talk. 

 

Something about those two seemed not to click.

 

my w.a.g. is Whaley is a talent first guy, McD is a locker room / scheme first guy. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, 416BillsFan said:

If Beane can't orchestrate a straight up Mack for Washington trade we should cut our losses and bring back Buddy Nix!

Buddy Nix must be pushing 80 years old!  There's no way he can play d tackle!  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Fake news click bait thread title alert!!!!?

 

One mook says he's "at risk...of potentially getting cut" and that transforms into likely to be cut?

Just like with FAKE news ....  it's up to the listener to determine how to sort through the BS. 

 

 

[TPS]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Washington was atrocious on the field last season.  He needs to have a really good camp and pre-season for me to give him a break.  

I posted this in some other Washington thread, but his overall stats (except sacks) were better than Kyles when adjusted for snap counts. I'm sure you're opinion s based on what you observe, not the stats.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, TPS said:

I posted this in some other Washington thread, but his overall stats (except sacks) were better than Kyles when adjusted for snap counts. I'm sure you're opinion s based on what you observe, not the stats.

 

Yea it isn't stats. He was constantly overpowered at the point of impact and out of position in the run game. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Semantics... it transforms into Joe B thinks he sucks ?. But sure I’ll change the title so no one else feels baited into clicking ?

 

 

Are we sure about that?  Joe seemed pretty non-committal.

 

?

[Kmart128]

I'm not sure about that... Washington is our only 3 tech besides Williams. Hughes and Phillips are both 1 Techs. If we were gonna cut Washington I'd assumed we would have signed Crick over Hughes.

[Matt_In_NH]

4 hours ago, eball said:

This is odd.  Kirwan (at camp yesterday) was praising Washington, unless I misheard.

And so was Beane, saying Adolphus finally "get it"

[John from Riverside]

I said this earlier

 

I didnt understand what ppl were seeing with Adolphus Washington....when he is on the field the running defense is aweful.....and he very seldom actually gets to the QB.

 

It would not shock me to see him go and have Shaq Lawson play more interior pass rusher.....and also getting Horrible Harry onto the field more......which would open up a spot to keep 3 qbs

[Fr. Jerk]

[fridge]

At times when I’ve focused on a Washington in games he’s actually looked pretty good.  I don’t understand the hate here.

[Rico]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Weird how different people have such different takes on the same player.  Joe B has also said:

 

To this point in training camp, Washington has been mainly invisible and has only one win during 1-on-1 drills out of a total of 10 tries. His only win by my count came against rookie Wyatt Teller, and the remainder of the time right guard John Miller has dominated him on most reps. If you combine his lack of a presence early on with the fact that the Bills have already started giving Harrison Phillips work at Washington's three-technique position, it all is not adding up well for the past Doug Whaley selection. 

 

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-7-observations-from-2018-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-5

Well, Whaley fans should look at the bright side, John Miller is getting some good press. Maybe O’Leary won’t be the last Whaley guy standing after all.

[wppete]

Have a feeling McBean going to make some big cuts and trades again this preseason.

[JP's Voice]

I don't understand why they haven't tried him on the outside rather than as an interrior DL. He seems to have a pretty quick first step and if he shed some LBs he might be able to make the change. I'd hate to just cut someone of his size.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I said this earlier

 

I didnt understand what ppl were seeing with Adolphus Washington....when he is on the field the running defense is aweful.....and he very seldom actually gets to the QB.

 

It would not shock me to see him go and have Shaq Lawson play more interior pass rusher.....and also getting Horrible Harry onto the field more......which would open up a spot to keep 3 qbs

Did John just have a negative post about a Bills player???? The world is going to end now that the Bills made the playoffs isn’t it? ?

53 minutes ago, Rico said:

Well, Whaley fans should look at the bright side, John Miller is getting some good press. Maybe O’Leary won’t be the last Whaley guy standing after all.

I’m sure Sammy is crying into all his money about not being on the Bills.  Or Darby or Bradham while polishing their SB rings.  Or Hogan. Or Woods getting paid nice money in LA.  Whaley sucks.

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Did John just have a negative post about a Bills player???? The world is going to end now that the Bills made the playoffs isn’t it? ?

I’m sure Sammy is crying into all his money about not being on the Bills.  Or Darby or Bradham while polishing their SB rings.  Or Hogan. Or Woods getting paid nice money in LA.  Whaley sucks.

You know he has to be REALLY bad in order for me to make a negative comment!

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

And so was Beane, saying Adolphus finally "get it"

Trying to trade him brings out the positive comments 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Trying to trade him brings out the positive comments 

 

Are you surprised by Washington's play at this point or is this what you expected when you watched him at OSU?

[Fadingpain]

Is it possible Joe B. and his ilk don't have a clue as to what they are watching?

 

Or that their observations may differ from those of the coaching staff?

 

 

[Soda Popinski]

7 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Is it possible Joe B. and his ilk don't have a clue as to what they are watching?

 

Or that their observations may differ from those of the coaching staff?

 

 

It's very possible, but I do think they base their observations on what McDermott and Beane have done in the past with fringe players. 

[aceman_16]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1). I agree you shouldn’t trade up for a receiver in the first.  But Sammy was the clear 1 and thought to have Julio ability.  Also, he is getting paid $16 million dollars by one of the best offensive coaches in the nfl.  Do you think Zay will ever command that much?

 

2) we traded up to get Zay because we hired his wr coach and JuJu was still on the board.  

 

3). We gave up a good amount to get Allen.  If any of the qbs end up being better than him, it looks like a bad move.

 

1&2) Zay was the 37th pick in the draft. Buffalo traded pick No. 44 and No. 91 to the Rams in exchange for No. 37 and No. 149. In essence,  we traded 2 picks to get 2 picks with about the same playabilty and ability to make the team and impact. Moreover,  the BEST time to move up is when the coach has previous experience with someone.  It offers less variables.  I guess Rex had experience with Sammy as well when his son was the long snapper at Clemson (sarcasm btw).

 

Sammy Watkins was the 4th overall pick. The Bills sent the ninth overall pick (one pick) along with their first (second pick) and fourth-round (third pick)  selections in 2015 to Cleveland in the trade. So we picked up 1 impact position instead of 3 - on a team without the certainty of a franchise QB and questionable talent. This entire argument is silly and a non starter if one finds equivilance between the two.

 

3) That is ANY position in a draft.  However,  your premise is correct  - missing out on a highly drafted QB is not good.

Edited August 1, 2018 by aceman_16
Spacing is nice

[YoloinOhio]

29 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Are you surprised by Washington's play at this point or is this what you expected when you watched him at OSU?

I thinks he’s talented but lacks football intelligence and intrinsic motivation. Not going to cut it in the big leagues. 

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You know he has to be REALLY bad in order for me to make a negative comment!

 

Luckily Adolphus was downright awful

[Matt_In_NH]

52 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Trying to trade him brings out the positive comments 

 

Could be

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I missed that.  Hatley is a more of a hole clogger right?

new terminology ? 

 you kids and your sexual references, geesh

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Washington was atrocious on the field last season.  He needs to have a really good camp and pre-season for me to give him a break.  

yep

4 hours ago, jrober38 said:

Washington was always a terrible draft pick with no upside. He's a poor athlete for his position, has below average movement skills and strength and ultimately hasn't proven to be a good NFL player. I don't see him making the team. 

 but he can play DE in a 3-4 and then move inside in a 4-3. isn't that enough for you people ?

: )

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Whaley bashing in jest is ok though isn’t it? 

 

Reality is the guy has an eye for talent, but building a team?  Not quite so sure. Sammy is a fine example.  All the talent in the world- but so far he’s been found expendable by two teams... what’s the prediction he plays out his whole deal in kc? 

 

The new guys seem to prioritize team and scheme over talent. Time will tell how well it works. 

 

The real issue with Adolphis is; Kyle, Star and the rook are locks.  

Rex pick.

 just like Lawson

 and Ragland.

 Whaley did what he was asked

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Since you mention trading up, Whaley had some nice trade downs. Consider with the bills first 2013 pick they picked up Shady + one year of a nearly DROY MLB. That’s acceptable 

Philly called Buffalo while Brandon was on TPs yacht. fact

 they were likely buzzed from the wine by then. conjecture
worked out well for Bills. opinion

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

new terminology ? 

 you kids and your sexual references, geesh

 

Absolutely a great catch.  

I can't take credit for this because it wasn't intended.  

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, fridge said:

At times when I’ve focused on a Washington in games he’s actually looked pretty good.  I don’t understand the hate here.

at time when i have focused on him he was doing nothing.
Not personal my friend.

 and i did watch him and Lawson.

those who like stats woulds say his run defense was suspect

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Absolutely a great catch.  

I can't take credit for this because it wasn't intended.  

you still get points !

Edited August 1, 2018 by 3rdand12

[Da webster guy]

Man they were gushing over this kid on draft day.   Not about him getting arrested trying to hire a hooker.  The other part...

 

This 

 

Strengths:

• Quick, disruptive defender
• Interior pass-rush skills
• Fast to fire his gap
• Gets a lot of pressure on the quarterback
• Can bull rush
• Closes well on the quarterback
• Quality run-defender
• Can hold his gap against runs
• Skilled at shedding blocks
• Good length
• Can split two blockers
• Versatile
• Speed to the flat
• Stays low out of his stance
• Can swim off blocks
• Scheme versatile
• Good fit as a three-technique in a 4-3
• Fits as a five-technique in a 3-4

Remember how awesome he looked early in his rookie camp too.   Looks like he might have the Dareus disease, talent but not enough discipline and drive.

• 
   

[Freddie's Dead]

Meat Tenderizer, we hardly knew ye...

[billsfan89]

Too early to tell in camp, I think by the time the first pre-season game is up you can really start to get a read for how guys are performing. I feel like with early training camp reports you often are subjected to the reporter's opinions too often. 

8 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

Man they were gushing over this kid on draft day.   Not about him getting arrested trying to hire a hooker.  The other part...

 

This 

 

Strengths:

• Quick, disruptive defender
• Interior pass-rush skills
• Fast to fire his gap
• Gets a lot of pressure on the quarterback
• Can bull rush
• Closes well on the quarterback
• Quality run-defender
• Can hold his gap against runs
• Skilled at shedding blocks
• Good length
• Can split two blockers
• Versatile
• Speed to the flat
• Stays low out of his stance
• Can swim off blocks
• Scheme versatile
• Good fit as a three-technique in a 4-3
• Fits as a five-technique in a 3-4

Remember how awesome he looked early in his rookie camp too.   Looks like he might have the Dareus disease, talent but not enough discipline and drive.

• 
   

 

Dareus at least played at an elite level in his rookie contract, even when Dareus got complacent he was still a way above average NFL player at his position (The run defenses collapse after he got traded and The Jags improvement in that department proves he had decent value just not worth the massive contract and a locker room cancer apparently.) 

 

Washington just hasn't been able to put it together as an interior pass rusher, dude was never projected to be a great run defender but was drafted on his potential as an interior pass rusher. Hopefully he rounds into form as camp goes on but I suspect a poor camp performance and a strong performance from a player behind him will likely get him cut or traded if some other team wants him for a 7th.  

[Augie]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The real issue is on the field in actual games Adolphus has... well... sucked

 

 

Which led to signing Star and using a 3rd round pick (to take what I think will be a steal). This was not happenstance. I think maybe they noticed. I won’t get ahead of myself in gushing, but I find this FO to be refreshing, to say the least. To soon to go too far, but......

[vincec]

22 hours ago, billieve420 said:

I believe I also heard yesterday that Adolphus had turned the corner and was praised by McDermott/Bean so probably looking to trade him.

This is so true.

[Paul Costa]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Which led to signing Star and using a 3rd round pick (to take what I think will be a steal). This was not happenstance. I think maybe they noticed. I won’t get ahead of myself in gushing, but I find this FO to be refreshing, to say the least. To soon to go too far, but......

Why is Kyle Williams saying Washington is playing great right now. On moving the chains a couple of days ago Pat Kirwin asked Kyle how Harrison Phillips is doing and he said nothing against Harrison but the guy who’s killing it in camp is Adolphus Washington. He’s really figured it out. On the same show McDermott & Beane also gave high praise for Washington. Are they talking up Washington so they can trade him? Is Kyle part of the scheme?

[SoTier]

22 hours ago, aceman_16 said:

I agree with your general premise - ALL GMs have hits and misses.  However,  the trade ups that this regime has been doing 1) make sense in team building and hole filling and 2) don't sell the farm FOR A WIDE receiver in a DEEP wide receiver class!

 

If one can't see the difference,  then they are just stuck in their own confirmation bias or being a troll.

 

There's nothing to "see".  The only "differences" are:

a) McDermott/Beane are currently TBD darlings so they can do no wrong in the eyes of their fanboys;

b) there hasn't been enough time for McDermott/Beane draftees to be judged as failures.

 

McDermott/Beane's trade-ups in 2018 dwarf all of Whaley's.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

[Cornette's Commentary]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

There's nothing to "see".  The only "differences" are:

a) McDermott/Beane are currently TBD darlings so they can do no wrong in the eyes of their fanboys;

b) there hasn't been enough time for McDermott/Beane draftees to be judged as failures.

 

McDermott/Beane's trade-ups in 2018 dwarf all of Whaley's.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

There's nothing to "see".  The only "differences" are:

a) McDermott/Beane are currently TBD darlings so they can do no wrong in the eyes of their fanboys;

b) there hasn't been enough time for McDermott/Beane draftees to be judged as failures.

 

McDermott/Beane's trade-ups in 2018 dwarf all of Whaley's.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

They gave up some, maybe more than I was happy with,  but not as much as some fans were clamoring for spending on the top QB. 

So, I wouldn't call it too much myself at this time. 

 

Give it a season or two and my opinion on this may change.