Let's talk about Buffalo's weaponry in the passing game.

[njbuff]

This is the most under appreciated aspect of what Buffalo brings to the table.

 

Now...........

 

The Bills have one of the best RB's in the NFL in Shady. He shows no signs of slowing down as he reaches the dark age for RB's, 30. He is also an excellent receiver out of the backfield.

 

KB is a legit number one WR when healthy. That's the big question, of course. Will he remain healthy?

 

Charles Clay is an excellent TE when healthy. Of course, can he stay healthy too?

 

That is three legitimate weapons in the passing game if they all stay on the field.

 

And maybe someone else can emerge as a viable target amongst the young WR's. Totally not out of the realm of pooibility.

 

Because the Bills don't have two established blazers who catch 100 passes a year on the outside, everyone assumes that Buffalo is weak in the passing game.

 

The Bills are going to be playing a close the the vest type passing game and their weaponry is more than enough to get the job done and win 10 games (if not more).

 

A severely overlooked aspect of Buffalo's game.

 

Of course, all bets are off if the injury bug bites.

 

 

[Zac]

Kelvin Benjamin as a legit #1 is highly questionable.  Poor-man's at best

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Zac said:

Kelvin Benjamin as a legit #1 is highly questionable.  Poor-man's at best

 

 

Ditto Charles Clay as "an excellent TE".

[Aussie Joe]

Ditto them “staying healthy”..

[Augie]

This feels like when someone buys a house and they can afford the payments, as long as everything goes just right. Things go sideways all the time, and we best be prepared for that. 

[Victory Formation]

Thing is with RBs, usually they hit a wall and there is no gradual decline. Somebody like Priest Holmes or Shaun Alexander rushing for 25 TDs and then 2 years later they can't crack an NFL roster.

[Rigotz]

The Bills have the worst passing lineup in the league.

[KGun12TD]

Can we use some "strategry" with our "weaponry?

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

The Bills have the worst passing lineup in the league.

 

Maybe...but this time last year they had the worst Secondary in the League..

 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Maybe...but this time last year they had the worst Secondary in the League..

 

 

At least then we knew we had added some talent and could hope for it to pan out. This? Not so much....but maybe a little. I pray that Zay has his head on straight and bounces back. If he does, I still think we have a couple nice #2’s. You can’t do it all at once and I hope we can add a great WR in the draft (lasts year’s or next).  Proven #1 WR’s are so darn expensive! 

[TigerJ]

The age of Buffalo's running backs is indeed an issue.  If as some project the Bills' running backs are McCoy, Ivory, Travaris Cadett, and Taiwan Jones, their respective ages right now are 29, 30, 29, and 29.  That does make me a bit nervous.  Appart from the proverbial wall, there is also the isue of injuries.  Bot Cadett and Jones are coming off injuries, and now they are a year older.

 

With the receivers, it's an issue of question marks.  Kelvin Benjamin, if healthy is a good receiver, I think.  He seems to be both healthy and motivated this season.  Zay Jones may develop in his sophomore year.  Jeremy Kerley is a savvy veteran in the slot, even if he lacks great measurables.  Beyond those three, we don't even have a real good handle on who is going to make the final roster. Reilly and Streater could be pretty good.  McCloud and Proehl have some quickness.  Dupre seems to have some talent.  Who's going to make the team though?  Will they get a chance to compete.?

[Freddie's Dead]

Polly, meet Anna.

[C.Biscuit97]

12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Maybe...but this time last year they had the worst Secondary in the League..

 

Who said that? A ton of people loved the Hyde signing and we spent a 1st round pick on a qb.

 

i will blindly trust this regime on the defense side, especially d backs.  But our offensive evaluations so far have sucked, minus perhaps Dawkins.  We don’t have one receiver who threatens a defense vertically.  That’s a huge problem.

[Fadingpain]

"Weaponry" in the passing game?

 

We don't have a QB or WRs, and the OL is changed and downgraded relative to last year.

 

Other than that, our passing weaponry should be lethal!

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

"Weaponry" in the passing game?

 

We don't have a QB or WRs, and the OL is changed and downgraded relative to last year.

 

Other than that, our passing weaponry should be lethal!

 

 

Good.  We've got the rest of the league right where they want us.

[Augie]

44 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

"Weaponry" in the passing game?

 

We don't have a QB or WRs, and the OL is changed and downgraded relative to last year.

 

Other than that, our passing weaponry should be lethal!

 

 

 

It’s a water pistol, but the water in really cold!  I’m sure the league is quaking in their boots!

 

 

. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Augie

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

58 minutes ago, Augie said:

This feels like when someone buys a house and they can afford the payments, as long as everything goes just right. Things go sideways all the time, and we best be prepared for that. 

 

...MORE like someone who sees a picture of a house and declares it a DUMP from the picture.......and for the helluva it, they do a drive by.......doesn't look as bad as we thought....arrange for a showing and decide it's no where as bad as thought from the initial picture, which did no justice..... so could the Bills' initial WR picture do the gang no justice?....are they as bad as you thought?.....who the hell knows until we see the product, so stay tuned.....

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

This is the most under appreciated aspect of what Buffalo brings to the table.

 

Now...........

 

The Bills have one of the best RB's in the NFL in Shady. He shows no signs of slowing down as he reaches the dark age for RB's, 30. He is also an excellent receiver out of the backfield.

 

KB is a legit number one WR when healthy. That's the big question, of course. Will he remain healthy?

 

Charles Clay is an excellent TE when healthy. Of course, can he stay healthy too?

 

That is three legitimate weapons in the passing game if they all stay on the field.

 

And maybe someone else can emerge as a viable target amongst the young WR's. Totally not out of the realm of pooibility.

 

Because the Bills don't have two established blazers who catch 100 passes a year on the outside, everyone assumes that Buffalo is weak in the passing game.

 

The Bills are going to be playing a close the the vest type passing game and their weaponry is more than enough to get the job done and win 10 games (if not more).

 

A severely overlooked aspect of Buffalo's game.

 

Of course, all bets are off if the injury bug bites.

 

 

Good points, all.   

 

I say it over and over again - it's about coaching, folks.   There are about 10 or 15 receivers in the league who can get open on their own.   Most who can do it with speed, quickness and moves.   Benjamin is one; he does it with size.   Like Gronk does.   So he's a legit #1, just not a legit deep threat.   

 

The rest of the receivers in the league get open by running their routes precisely and taking advantage of mismatches in the defensive scheme.  You don't have to be Sammy Watkins to do that.   

 

The Bills receiving personnel is okay, and some of the youngsters will also emerge to be okay.    

[John from Riverside]

We do have Dan O'Leary.....

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We do have Dan O'Leary.....

Nick O'Leary. 

 

People joke about the Bills receiving, but Clay was 14th in the league in tight end receptions and O'Leary was 36th (which means he's more or less the 4th best second tight end on any team).

 

Tight is covered.  

[eball]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Nick O'Leary. 

 

People joke about the Bills receiving, but Clay was 14th in the league in tight end receptions and O'Leary was 36th (which means he's more or less the 4th best second tight end on any team).

 

Tight is covered.  

 

And imagine what Clay might do if he is catching the ball in stride rather than reaching back for it!

[Augie]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

And imagine what Clay might do if he is catching the ball in stride rather than reaching back for it!

 

....or just plain ignored while running free. I’m not a Tyrod hater, but....

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

And imagine what Clay might do if he is catching the ball in stride rather than reaching back for it!

 

What was the excuse for his drop in NE before the Benjamin TD catch was overturned on the next play? 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

I don't think WR/pass catchers is as much of an issue as it's made out to be by most, but there's certainly a lot of question marks there. 

 

Most of my questions have to do with who will be WRs 3-5, and not so much the health of Benjamin and Clay.

 

Everyone knows that Clay has chronic knee issues, and the Bills have done a good job of limiting him during the week. In 3 years with the Bills, he's missed 7 of 48 starts, not quite as bad as people might think. Nick O'Leary has really come along as a solid #2 with reliable hands, so missing Clay for a couple games isn't going to kill the offense.

 

Benjamin had the non-contact injury in 2015, and was injured last year after taking a shot to the knee. Both kind of flukey, although you could argue that his legs are are greater targets due to his size and lack of elusiveness. Hitting him with passes in stride can alleviate that some. 

 

Zay...huge question mark, but he's shown to be reliable at ECU. Hopefully he's learned a lot since then...

 

As for Shady, he's a threat any time he touches the ball, but I think he sees less targets in this offense. He'll be tasked with staying in to help block more often, IMO, especially if the offensive line has its struggles (which most people expect). And Ivory is a capable receiving option out of the backfield to consider. 

 

With that being said, as of right now, the group is probably bottom 5, until they prove otherwise. Part of their production will be based on the play of their QB(s?), which will be based on how well the line holds up. But one thing to consider is that WRs in this offense are much more interchangeable than in other offenses, and an injury or two may not hurt quite as much as they might in WC or AC based offenses. Losing Benjamin and/or Clay obviously wouldn't be good, especially for long periods, but this scheme isn't as "skill-set dependent", and it would give other guys down the depth chart a chance to prove themselves. 

 

I will say this though...if the Bills fail to win 10 games (which I don't believe they will), it won't be so as much due to the WRs as it will the QB and O-line. I think there will be too many growing pains there. I see a 6-9 win team, with a win total on the higher end being reliant on a much improved defense.

16 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

What was the excuse for his drop in NE before the Benjamin TD catch was overturned on the next play? 

 

A drop... it happens. 

 

You highlighted one play. He's made plenty of catches, many of which were not so easy. 

 

Clay is the least of my worries.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

I don't think WR/pass catchers is as much of an issue as it's made out to be by most, but there's certainly a lot of question marks there. 

 

Most of my questions have to do with who will be WRs 3-5, and not so much the health of Benjamin and Clay.

 

Everyone knows that Clay has chronic knee issues, and the Bills have done a good job of limiting him during the week. In 3 years with the Bills, he's missed 7 of 48 starts, not quite as bad as people might think. Nick O'Leary has really come along as a solid #2 with reliable hands, so missing Clay for a couple games isn't going to kill the offense.

 

Benjamin had the non-contact injury in 2015, and was injured last year after taking a shot to the knee. Both kind of flukey, although you could argue that his legs are are greater targets due to his size and lack of elusiveness. Hitting him with passes in stride can alleviate that some. 

 

Zay...huge question mark, but he's shown to be reliable at ECU. Hopefully he's learned a lot since then...

 

As for Shady, he's a threat any time he touches the ball, but I think he sees less targets in this offense. He'll be tasked with staying in to help block more often, IMO, especially if the offensive line has its struggles (which most people expect). And Ivory is a capable receiving option out of the backfield to consider. 

 

With that being said, as of right now, the group is probably bottom 5, until they prove otherwise. Part of their production will be based on the play of their QB(s?), which will be based on how well the line holds up. But one thing to consider is that WRs in this offense are much more interchangeable than in other offenses, and an injury or two may not hurt quite as much as they might in WC or AC based offenses. Losing Benjamin and/or Clay obviously wouldn't be good, especially for long periods, but this scheme isn't as "skill-set dependent", and it would give other guys down the depth chart a chance to prove themselves. 

 

I will say this though...if the Bills fail to win 10 games (which I don't believe they will), it won't be so as much due to the WRs as it will the QB and O-line. I think there will be too many growing pains there. I see a 6-9 win team, with a win total on the higher end being reliant on a much improved defense.

 

A drop... it happens. 

 

You highlighted one play. He's made plenty of catches, many of which were not so easy. 

 

Clay is the least of my worries.

 

I don't recall him making many great catches and you should worry more given the state of his knees.  When healthy he is a good all around TE. 

[John from Riverside]

I just think it is difficult to even know what we have when our past offenses were not centered around it.

 

We have been (and may still be) a run dominant team that doesnt throw the ball as much as other teams......teams that throw the ball around are going to have better numbers and production from their pass catcher's by default.

 

Put a QB behind center that delivers the rock?   You might have a different result.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I don't recall him making many great catches and you should worry more given the state of his knees.  When healthy he is a good all around TE. 

 

He's missed 7 games in 3 years with the Bills. Since becoming a starter in Miami, he's never missed more than 3 starts in a season.

 

Of course the knee issue is worrisome, but it hasn't been as big an issue as it's often made out to be IMO. It'd be nice to see him start all 16, but that shouldn't be expected. When he starts missing huge chunks of a season, I'll worry more.

 

And yeah, he's no Gronk. He's not going to make too many highly contested catches that bigger, faster TEs tend to make more often, but he's been a reliable option in the passing game throughout his career, and has made several big plays for the Bills. He also hasn't had the best of QBs throwing him the ball in his career either.

[Tipster19]

Once again don’t have the time to read all the responses but I believe that McBeane is building a team the right way, dismantled, defense first, potential franchise QB and waiting on the rest of the offense (OL & WR) positions to be fully addressed. I believe that we are in Stage 2 of a 4 5 Stage process. Problem is that this isn’t developing quick for a starving fan base. We all don’t have no choice but to wait and observe. In the mean time this is great fodder for message boards. Patience is a virtue.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I just think it is difficult to even know what we have when our past offenses were not centered around it.

 

We have been (and may still be) a run dominant team that doesnt throw the ball as much as other teams......teams that throw the ball around are going to have better numbers and production from their pass catcher's by default.

 

Put a QB behind center that delivers the rock?   You might have a different result.

 

Good point. But I don't think it will be so much about the numbers, as it will being efficient and making plays when called upon, especially over the next year or two. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[nedboy7]

Ah some good old Bills bashing.  This is refreshing. 

[MJS]

I think we'll be fine at WR and fine at OL, but you don't want to just be fine. You want to be really good.

 

It'll take another off-season or two for that to happen, though, but that doesn't mean we can't win some games or even make the playoffs.

[Reader]

25 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I just think it is difficult to even know what we have when our past offenses were not centered around it.

 

We have been (and may still be) a run dominant team that doesnt throw the ball as much as other teams......teams that throw the ball around are going to have better numbers and production from their pass catcher's by default.

 

Put a QB behind center that delivers the rock?   You might have a different result.

 

This is an excellent point. Of course I would keep in mind why the team has been a run dominant team. I think (and I'm sure it's debatable) Lynn, Roman and even to a lesser extent less talented coordinators were wise enough to play to our strength of running as opposed to passing.

[freddyjj]

Glad to see the Bills passing game as a subject.  Last year was abysmal due to OC's game plans, a timid QB and the litany of injuries at WR and TE.  It can only improve this year!

 

Why?

WRs

Benjamin and Kerley are experienced WRs in this league who have had success and will be healthy this year.  A speed element from Streater, Kaelin Clay or Foster could be a bonus.  OC

The fact they drafted 2 slot WRs tells me that Daboll will have a horizontal aspect to the passing game too.  He will always scheme to get a mismatch and that may be in the slot.  

RBs

Shady, Ivory, Cadet and DiMarco are all good at Pass blocking and as receivers.  Daboll will get them in space via mismatches.

 

We will have to get use to a passing offense - last time we saw one was Chan Gailey era.

[Aussie Joe]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who said that? A ton of people loved the Hyde signing and we spent a 1st round pick on a qb.

 

i will blindly trust this regime on the defense side, especially d backs.  But our offensive evaluations so far have sucked, minus perhaps Dawkins.  We don’t have one receiver who threatens a defense vertically.  That’s a huge problem.

 

Plenty of people here at the time and at least one media "expert"...

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/09/buffalo_bills_secondary_among_nfls_worst_defensive_positional_units_says_espn.html

 

The WR's don't look great on paper but they will have a few new faces, a  new Co-ordinator and new QB throwing them the ball...

 

Im prepared to wait and see and hope for the best at this stage,,,

 

 

[Green Lightning]

2 hours ago, Rigotz said:

The Bills have the worst passing lineup in the league.

On paper, I agree.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who said that? A ton of people loved the Hyde signing and we spent a 1st round pick on a qb.

 

i will blindly trust this regime on the defense side, especially d backs.  But our offensive evaluations so far have sucked, minus perhaps Dawkins.  We don’t have one receiver who threatens a defense vertically.  That’s a huge problem.

Streater is healthy so far

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Good points, all.   

 

I say it over and over again - it's about coaching, folks.   There are about 10 or 15 receivers in the league who can get open on their own.   Most who can do it with speed, quickness and moves.   Benjamin is one; he does it with size.   Like Gronk does.   So he's a legit #1, just not a legit deep threat.   

 

The rest of the receivers in the league get open by running their routes precisely and taking advantage of mismatches in the defensive scheme.  You don't have to be Sammy Watkins to do that.   

 

The Bills receiving personnel is okay, and some of the youngsters will also emerge to be okay.    

I read an article today with Beane  quotes about wide receivers. on bleacher report I think.

He seems to be about creating mismatches by bringing multiple skills sets who also can play xyz etc to some degree.  I gathered he likes to WR by Committee for now at least.. just get open and move the chains.

 that does work. maybe less exciting

[artmalibu]

QB play will be the determining factor, not the guys catching the ball...

[Shaw66]

19 minutes ago, artmalibu said:

QB play will be the determining factor, not the guys catching the ball...

Absolutely right.   The receivers will run the routes; the QBs have to make the plays.  

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

4 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Once again don’t have the time to read all the responses but I believe that McBeane is building a team the right way, dismantled, defense first, potential franchise QB and waiting on the rest of the offense (OL & WR) positions to be fully addressed. I believe that we are in Stage 2 of a 4 5 Stage process. Problem is that this isn’t developing quick for a starving fan base. We all don’t have no choice but to wait and observe. In the mean time this is great fodder for message boards. Patience is a virtue.

gonna be a long, long offseason at TBD ...

[Dadonkadonk]

RBs don't slow down.   They fall off the cliff.  Not saying it is going to happen this year but it can.  As I have stated before, Ivory will not make it out of camp.  He has already fallen off the cliff.

 

What will determine whether the offense will succeed or not is the TD/INT ratio.  If the QB and passing game can be more productive without a significant increase in INT's the offense can be more successful.  The next most important issue will be third down conversions.  Even under TT this was a big issue.  He did convert some first downs with his legs but there was a high number of 3 and outs.  Again this is all negated by turnovers.  If they can convert more third downs and keep the defense off the field that should be a positive.  But if it is at the expense of a pick six or a red zone turnover then the offense will be worse off.

 

This board screamed for more points (apparently top 10 was not good enough), yards, and TD passes.  None of those matter if the turnovers increase significantly.  Even for me TT was too conservative, but those of us that defended him did so based on low turnover rate.  Those that wanted him gone pointed to yards, TD passes, and 4th quarter comebacks.  I hope AJ and then Josh are the right blend of aggressiveness and ball security.