Rumour: Rosen and Mayfield were off the Bills' Board

[Elite Poster]

4 hours ago, Commonsense said:

The Bills have eliminated the leaks, I don’t believe some random former position coach has access to the teams draft board. The order he gave looks about right but most anyone who was following closely could create that list of guesstimations!

 

Umm, almost every expert in the country was saying Allen was our guy. 

 

"Eliminated"

Edited May 3, 2018 by Elite Poster

[CommonCents]

3 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Umm, almost every expert in the country was saying Allen was our guy. 

 

"Eliminated"

Selective memory. The Bills were linked many times to almost all off the QBs available. Google Bills and Lamar Jackson. See how many links and predictions come up.

 

The Bills didn’t even meet with the guy outside of the combine. 

 

The experts lol

[Fadingpain]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay... so I don't really go in for inside sources type gossip but I got told something yesterday, 3rd hand by someone whose route tree for the information seemed to be legit. I know him from a couple of NFLUK events I have attended and he used to coach (position coach only) in the league.  I won't say more than that.  His information confirmed to me the suspicion that I think many on this board have had about the Bills Quarterback draft board.  They had two Quarterback prospects with top 10 grades and a third who they would have considered with a later first round selection.  Those two were, in order:

 

1. Sam Darnold

2. Josh Allen

 

The third was Mason Rudolph. He claimed that neither Josh Rosen, nor Baker Mayfield were on the Bills' draft board at all. Both had been removed due to off the field concerns and neither were under consideration as a potential Buffalo Bill. The Bills allegedly had a mid round grade on Lamar Jackson and he wasn't their 4th Quarterback (though he did not say who was).

 

The information actually makes me feel a little better about the Josh Allen pick and their ability to evaluate. The have access to infinitely more sources of personal information about these kids than I or any other fan and obviously decided that Rosen and Mayfield did not fit what they wanted from a culture point of view. I like Rosen's personality from what I have seen and think the criticism for his public persona is total hogwash. But the Bills have the opportunity to go deeper into his circle in a way I never could. It means that they did not look at Josh Allen's tape and think "that's better than Rosen's" which reassures me somewhat for the long term.

 

It doesn't make me believe Allen is any more likely to work out than I thought before.... but it does at least make me believe that they probably made the only choice they thought was available to them. Here is hoping it works out.  

 

 

Doesn't make me feel better at all! 

 

If this information is true, it means their selection criteria is almost exclusively rooted in traditional meathead "football guy" type stuff, and not in analytics at all.

 

Allen's stats at College combined with a large pool of historical data tells you he should certainly NOT ever become a good NFL player.  The only reason you could take such a player is if you are blind to analytics and have a football coach mentality.

 

"Look at that arm strength!" etc.

 

Remember, this is the coach who didn't know a tie late in the season can't happen.  Being unaware of fundamental data points like that, form a HC, is not acceptable.

 

We all know McDermott loves to pray to Jesus.  Let's hope he does a lot of it and has a special relationship with the Big Man upstairs...we are all going to need it if Allen is going to mature into anything other than a bust.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

8 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Umm, almost every expert in the country was saying Allen was our guy. 

 

"Eliminated"

I think it does go back to some comments Beane made earlier in the year regarding the "type" of QB they wanted

 

Something to the effect of "Big strong pocket passer with some movement skills when needed" or something to that effect.

 

Eliminates mayfield because he is 6' tall

Eliminates Jackson because he is not viewed as a pocket passer

Eliminates Rosen because while he does make plays from the pocket you dont view him as "big strong" and he doesnt have movement skills

 

The writing was on the wall for this for a while I think.  Darnold was the other QB that could have been viewed in this way.

1 minute ago, Fadingpain said:

Doesn't make me feel better at all! 

 

If this information is true, it means their selection criteria is almost exclusively rooted in traditional meathead "football guy" type stuff, and not in analytics at all.

 

Allen's stats at College combined with a large pool of historical data tells you he should certainly NOT ever become a good NFL player.  The only reason you could take such a player is if you are blind to analytics and have a football coach mentality.

 

"Look at that arm strength!" etc.

 

Remember, this is the coach who didn't know a tie late in the season can't happen.  Being unaware of fundamental data points like that, form a HC, is not acceptable.

 

We all know McDermott loves to pray to Jesus.  Let's hope he does a lot of it and has a special relationship with the Big Man upstairs...we are all going to need it if Allen is going to mature into anything other than a bust.

 

 

Doesnt matter...the selection has been made.  Now we have to hope he will be put in a position to succeed.

 

 

[stony]

I find it disheartening that a franchise so devoid of QB talent for the past 20 years would have two of the top QBs completely off their board.  I hope this is false.  

[formerlyofCtown]

6 hours ago, eball said:

Very interesting.  We'll see what happens.

 

As an aside, I was talking with a buddy who is a big USC fan and he was much more down on Darnold than I expected.  Said he's your typical laid-back CA kid and while he has all of the physical ability he's also a "happy-go-lucky" kind of guy and he's not sure he has the competitive fire to lead an NFL team.  It was a perspective I hadn't heard previously; if true, NYC will eat him alive.

I have heard that there was only one QB they would trade up for and they believed they could get him where they got him.  Given the relationships I believe Beane knew exactly who would go in the top 4.  I also believe they knew who Beane would take.

[cba fan]

6 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

So the quarterback our team considered to be the best in the draft now plays in our division for the next 20 years. 

 

This guy in meme looks like Josh Rosens relative.

[RochesterRob]

8 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

So the quarterback our team considered to be the best in the draft now plays in our division for the next 20 years. 

 

  I hope that you were not serious about this 20 year business.  Bad enough people were talking before the draft about 10-15 year careers as though it was as easy as grabbing a snack from the fridge.  What's next?  Running backs that will play for 25 years?

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I hope that you were not serious about this 20 year business.  Bad enough people were talking before the draft about 10-15 year careers as though it was as easy as grabbing a snack from the fridge.  What's next?  Running backs that will play for 25 years?

 

I'm never serious. However, these days the most successful quarterbacks have 20 year careers.

[TPS]

This shouldn’t be surprising at all. Over the past 3-4 months, Any number of people on this board questioned mayfield’s personality fit and Rosen’s durability fit. 

[Prickly Pete]

Local LA radio on Rosen..."Before the draft, whenever we asked someone who dealt with him personally, what they thought of Josh Rosen, they gave us "the look". We just kept getting 'the look' from all these different people."

Edited May 3, 2018 by OJABBA

[The Now Moment]

8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't get why Rosen's concussion history is not more troubling to people. He's one big hit away from potentially being done.

It was a major reason why I didn't want him.  I've seen the abuse Wyoming's offensive line has allowed Allen to take and he can take a hit really well.  Rosen had first round lineman to block for him and still has a history of injuries including concussions.  Not someone I'm interested in taking.  Allen has some really solid awareness in the pocket as he was running for his life every other play it seemed like.

[Bing Bong]

that's dumb cause Baker is gonna ball

[BillsFan17]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

That's true only if you count every injury equally.

 

The thing to keep in mind with Rosen is he doesn't need the money. He gets his bell rung again and he could say eff it. 

Then why didnt he just say eff it at UCLA while taking a beating there behind that line? Why even enter the NFL draft and put your self in that position to begin with?

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay... so I don't really go in for inside sources type gossip but I got told something yesterday, 3rd hand by someone whose route tree for the information seemed to be legit. I know him from a couple of NFLUK events I have attended and he used to coach (position coach only) in the league.  I won't say more than that.  His information confirmed to me the suspicion that I think many on this board have had about the Bills Quarterback draft board.  They had two Quarterback prospects with top 10 grades and a third who they would have considered with a later first round selection.  Those two were, in order:

 

1. Sam Darnold

2. Josh Allen

 

The third was Mason Rudolph. He claimed that neither Josh Rosen, nor Baker Mayfield were on the Bills' draft board at all. Both had been removed due to off the field concerns and neither were under consideration as a potential Buffalo Bill. The Bills allegedly had a mid round grade on Lamar Jackson and he wasn't their 4th Quarterback (though he did not say who was).

 

The information actually makes me feel a little better about the Josh Allen pick and their ability to evaluate. The have access to infinitely more sources of personal information about these kids than I or any other fan and obviously decided that Rosen and Mayfield did not fit what they wanted from a culture point of view. I like Rosen's personality from what I have seen and think the criticism for his public persona is total hogwash. But the Bills have the opportunity to go deeper into his circle in a way I never could. It means that they did not look at Josh Allen's tape and think "that's better than Rosen's" which reassures me somewhat for the long term.

 

It doesn't make me believe Allen is any more likely to work out than I thought before.... but it does at least make me believe that they probably made the only choice they thought was available to them. Here is hoping it works out.  

 

 

 

The only reason this seems a bit off to me is that they met so many times with Baker, seems they had significant interest.  I guess ultimately they could have made the decision to take him down, just seems like there was interest given they met with him multiple times (reportedly at least).  

 

I do agree that clearly Allen and Darnold were probably top of their board given we drafted Allen and they flew out to see Darnold close to the draft.  Just seems like Baker was on there somewhere.  Either way doesnt matter, they never had a shot at Baker since he went #1.  And given the Giants said they never considered trading back, looks like Darnold was never an option either.  

 

So looks like Bills got their 2nd choice, and only had to trade 2 seconds to do it compared to the 3 firsts and 2 seconds people wanted them to spend to get to #2 or #4.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The only reason this seems a bit off to me is that they met so many times with Baker, seems they had significant interest.  I guess ultimately they could have made the decision to take him down, just seems like there was interest given they met with him multiple times (reportedly at least).  

 

I do agree that clearly Allen and Darnold were probably top of their board given we drafted Allen and they flew out to see Darnold close to the draft.  Just seems like Baker was on there somewhere.  Either way doesnt matter, they never had a shot at Baker since he went #1.  And given the Giants said they never considered trading back, looks like Darnold was never an option either.  

 

So looks like Bills got their 2nd choice, and only had to trade 2 seconds to do it compared to the 3 firsts and 2 seconds people wanted them to spend to get to #2 or #4.  

I have also seen where a team meeting with a player often can mean they have more lingering questions about him then actual interest. Kind of like, ok everyone loves this guy but I'm not sold. What am I missing?

 

[Yeezus]

Baker Mayfield is going to make every scout/GM/analyst look like a complete dumbass this season and I can't wait

 

rooting for the kid. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Yeezus

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

I have also seen where a team meeting with a player often can mean they have more lingering questions about him then actual interest. Kind of like, ok everyone loves this guy but I'm not sold. What am I missing?

 

 

Thats a fair point actually...could have been why.  All in all, doesnt matter since Baker wasn't available to get in the first place.  Either way, Bills took the 3rd QB in the draft, so they got no less than the 3rd guy on the board, and according to this rumor probably got the 2nd guy on their board without having to trade away our other first round pick.

 

All in all, I say Beane is wizard and I fully have bought into this regime and their ability to make great moves.

[Sky Diver]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay... so I don't really go in for inside sources type gossip but I got told something yesterday, 3rd hand by someone whose route tree for the information seemed to be legit. I know him from a couple of NFLUK events I have attended and he used to coach (position coach only) in the league.  I won't say more than that.  His information confirmed to me the suspicion that I think many on this board have had about the Bills Quarterback draft board.  They had two Quarterback prospects with top 10 grades and a third who they would have considered with a later first round selection.  Those two were, in order:

 

1. Sam Darnold

2. Josh Allen

 

The third was Mason Rudolph. He claimed that neither Josh Rosen, nor Baker Mayfield were on the Bills' draft board at all. Both had been removed due to off the field concerns and neither were under consideration as a potential Buffalo Bill. The Bills allegedly had a mid round grade on Lamar Jackson and he wasn't their 4th Quarterback (though he did not say who was).

 

The information actually makes me feel a little better about the Josh Allen pick and their ability to evaluate. The have access to infinitely more sources of personal information about these kids than I or any other fan and obviously decided that Rosen and Mayfield did not fit what they wanted from a culture point of view. I like Rosen's personality from what I have seen and think the criticism for his public persona is total hogwash. But the Bills have the opportunity to go deeper into his circle in a way I never could. It means that they did not look at Josh Allen's tape and think "that's better than Rosen's" which reassures me somewhat for the long term.

 

It doesn't make me believe Allen is any more likely to work out than I thought before.... but it does at least make me believe that they probably made the only choice they thought was available to them. Here is hoping it works out.  

 

 

 

It reassures you that the Bills didn’t think Allen was a good QB based on watching his film?

 

The Rosen fanboys are really over the top.

[Aussie Joe]

10 minutes ago, Yeezus said:

Baker Mayfield is going to make every scout/GM/analyst look like a complete dumbass this season and I can't wait

 

rooting for the kid. 

 

Why?

 

Because he was picked Number 1?

[stony]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

This shouldn’t be surprising at all. Over the past 3-4 months, Any number of people on this board questioned mayfield’s personality fit and Rosen’s durability fit. 

What's interesting is Mayfield went 1, and the Browns (allegedly) never thought of taking Allen.  There are some huge evaluation gaps team-to-team on the top QBs it seems.   

 

I'll check back in 3 years...

Edited May 4, 2018 by stony

[TPS]

8 minutes ago, stony said:

What's interesting is Mayfield went 1, and the Browns (allegedly) never thought of taking Allen.  There are some huge evaluation gaps team-to-team on the top QBs it seems.   

 

I'll check back in 3 years...

Yep, it's going to be awhile be this gets settled...

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said:

Then why didnt he just say eff it at UCLA while taking a beating there behind that line? Why even enter the NFL draft and put your self in that position to begin with?

Ego?

[BillsFan17]

14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Ego?

So that ego will be rattled with just one more hit? Just going to pack it all in for the money and ditch the ego?

 

I mean any other cards you wanna pull here?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

It reassures you that the Bills didn’t think Allen was a good QB based on watching his film?

 

This is what Gunner Bill actually said: " It means that they did not look at Josh Allen's tape and think "that's better than Rosen's" which reassures me somewhat for the long term. "

 

Where in there did he say anything about the Bills didn't think Allen was a good QB based on watching his film?  He said they didn't look at Allen's tape and think Allen tape >> Rosen tape.  That's not even in the same zip code with "didn't think Allen was a good QB based on film"

 

Quote

The Rosen fanboys are really over the top.

 

They might be, they might not be, but if you don't read what people write and process their meaning correctly, it's a puzzle how that could logically be concluded.

[Carter]

 

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

They might be, they might not be, but if you don't read what people write and process their meaning correctly, it's a puzzle how that could logically be concluded.

 

What is this? Stick to football hap. You sound like a shrink, a bad shrink. 

 

Lay off man. ?

Edited May 4, 2018 by Carter

[stuvian]

Only Darnold and Allen have the arms to keep defenses honest. Mayfield and Rosen are more dink and dunk.

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

The same is true for any young QB.

The same is true for any old QB. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Yeezus said:

Baker Mayfield is going to make every scout/GM/analyst look like a complete dumbass this season and I can't wait

 

rooting for the kid. 

How so... he went #1. No one passed on him. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

What is this? Stick to football hap. You sound like a shrink, a bad shrink. 

 

Lay off man. ?

 

I defer to your apparently superior knowledge of what "shrinks" and "bad shrinks" sound like, but nonetheless, I think I will continue as I am.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Yeezus said:

Baker Mayfield is going to make every scout/GM/analyst look like a complete dumbass this season and I can't wait

 

rooting for the kid. 

That fact that you even think this makes me worry for the kid.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

So that ego will be rattled with just one more hit? Just going to pack it all in for the money and ditch the ego?

 

I mean any other cards you wanna pull here?

 

It's pretty obvious there isn't anything that would give you pause about Rosen. Oddly most NFL front offices had plenty of pause. Weird, huh?

Edited May 4, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It's pretty obvious there isn't anything that would give you pause about Rosen. Oddly most NFL front offices had plenty of pause. Weird, huh?

They really did. It’s worth noting. Plus we as fans and the media doesn’t have access to the type of info that teams do, so that’s likely part of what happened there. Bill Polian said there is about 50% more info available to the teams than would ever be know publically. Clearly Arizona felt good enough to move up for him so he did ok at 10. My question is why Cleveland, NYG, Jets, Broncos, Bills passed. 

[purple haze]

15 hours ago, eball said:

Very interesting.  We'll see what happens.

 

As an aside, I was talking with a buddy who is a big USC fan and he was much more down on Darnold than I expected.  Said he's your typical laid-back CA kid and while he has all of the physical ability he's also a "happy-go-lucky" kind of guy and he's not sure he has the competitive fire to lead an NFL team.  It was a perspective I hadn't heard previously; if true, NYC will eat him alive.

I don't agree with your buddy.  I've seen a lot of SC games out here.  Darnold is very competitive to my eye; he's just not a demonstrative, rah-rah guy.  In that way he is "laid back" but he couldn't make many of the plays he makes if he weren't ultra competitive.   My issue with Darnold is he is sloppy with the rock.  He will give the ball away and then give the ball away again.   But he will burn a defense too.

[Manther]

15 hours ago, Magox said:

If you listened to everything that Beane was saying when looking at the sort of QB that he wants to lead this franchise, Darnold and Allen fit more the mold of QB that they are looking for.

 

They may very well end up being wrong on their evaluations but at least they went and got their guy.  You can't ask for anything more than that.

IF this is true when Darnold went at #3 the Bills let their only top tier QB left on their board sit there at 4, 5, 6.

 

So, they were willing to take their second tier QB and wait and hope Allen wasn’t pick.

 

Not necessarily going to get their guy.  But, did got put them with striking distance to get one of their top 2 QBs.

 

Intersting and plausible.

[MJS]

Makes sense. Also makes sense that they had a mid round grade in Jackson. That's where he should have gone.

 

Can't believe all the hype Baltimore is getting for trading up to reach for him.

 

Of course I thought Allen should be a 2nd rounder as well. Ultimately I know that I do not know enough about any of these guys. I don't even watch college ball. I only watch a few hours of highlights, breakdowns, and game tape on these guys before the draft.

Edited May 4, 2018 by MJS

[Nihilarian]

I think Allen was the Buffalo Bills #1 QB all along and here is why. Allen has that big frame with powerful arm and he played in the snow, cold and wind at Wyoming.

 

Darnold with his 22 turnovers in 13 games and that wasn't even in cold weather. Rosen with his fragile scrawny frame and Mayfield with his attitude, play style.

 

That said I think the Bills would have had to accept who fell to them out of the top four and I kinda doubt that any of those four would have been off their board. 

 

Who knows what would have happened had the NY Giants actually wanted to trade that #2 pick without asking for that 2019 first. Or any of the other teams willing to let Buffalo trade up other than Tampa. 

 

As it turned out the Bills landed what I think is the perfect fit for the Bills fans to love, a big, tough blue-collar type QB with a cannon for an arm. Get used to seeing frozen ropes! 

[Ol Dirty B]

17 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

 he's got some red flag injuries, especially for a team that plays in cold weather a lot. 

 

What?

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

They really did. It’s worth noting. Plus we as fans and the media doesn’t have access to the type of info that teams do, so that’s likely part of what happened there. Bill Polian said there is about 50% more info available to the teams than would ever be know publically. Clearly Arizona felt good enough to move up for him so he did ok at 10. My question is why Cleveland, NYG, Jets, Broncos, Bills passed. 

 

Polian sounds like he has dementia when he speaks. He needs to retire.

6 hours ago, Yeezus said:

Baker Mayfield is going to make every scout/GM/analyst look like a complete dumbass this season and I can't wait

 

rooting for the kid. 

 

Rooting for him to bust?

 

He went 1 overall and was rumored to be the next team in the QB market top choice at 3. Your post doesn't reflect reality 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Magox]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

They really did. It’s worth noting. Plus we as fans and the media doesn’t have access to the type of info that teams do, so that’s likely part of what happened there. Bill Polian said there is about 50% more info available to the teams than would ever be know publically. Clearly Arizona felt good enough to move up for him so he did ok at 10. My question is why Cleveland, NYG, Jets, Broncos, Bills passed. 

Or for that matter Miami.  If they really wanted him they could have easily secured him with a trade up.

[Klaista2k]

So they just completely eliminated two of the best quarterback's from the draft class?

 

Sounds smart.