If the Bills TRADE UP for Josh Allen...

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, gobills1212 said:

We all have druthers. Personally darnold/rosen are my A list, Allen/mayfield B list so my only disappointment is it wasn't my top group but if he is who they like then giddy up and let's go. At the very least it'll be fun to look forward to his potential and trying to grow into it!

 

Same here.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I wouldn’t feel any differently if they stayed at 12

 

I would, I think.  I see Allen as a high-ceiling developmental prospect, the sort of guy you take at the top of the second (which becomes mid-to-low 1st with QB inflation).

So taking him just above the mid-1st isn't as terrible a reach.

[NewEra]

I’d be a bit sad if we traded both 1sts a 1st next year and other 18 picks for him but I’d be on board that they identified him as the guy and would instantly become a Josh Allen fanboy by Friday morning.  He is one of the most physically talented QBs in history 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

I agree.

 

Allen is a fine developmental QB. I think there is a major difference between a franchise QB prospect and a developmental QB. I'm fine with drafting Allen in the 1st round, just not at the cost of a franchise QB. If we move up to the top 5 that QB is is handed the keys. 

 

 

That's how I feel too. Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield are one class to me. Allen and Jackson another, they are projects. No trade up.

Edited April 18, 2018 by horned dogs

[KDIGGZ]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

No, it is not.

compelling argument.  thanks for your input

[thurst44]

9 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Not sure how anyone could feel worse than EJ.  It was painfully obvious when he was at FSU that EJ wasn't a pro QB.   Even the FSU fans here said so.

 

 

 

Well, he did emphasize trade up, and EJ was a trade down where we got a DROY candidate who was then traded for our current best player. When EJ was drafted, personally I was ok with it, because they were aiming for a QB and he was about as good as any that year, and still could almost be argued (by default...what an awful year for QBs...for Geno's 9 more TDs, he had 20 more interceptions, Glennon's the "class" of the class, I guess, and that is SAD).

 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

compelling argument.  thanks for your input

 

He's right though.  The Bills needed a franchise QB and TRADED DOWN for Manuel because they didn't think he was worth a top-ten pick. 

 

Think about that for a second.

 

It's totally different than trading assets to move UP for your guy.

[elltrain22]

I trust Beane & McDermott. They are smart, thorough, and have devoted alot of time & energy in making this decision. Just like everyone that's a Bills fan, I want to hear Rosen or Mayfield's name called the most, but if not, I'll trust & also be excited about our decision. 

 

Also,  IMHO, in 5 years, Josh Allen has just as good a shot as Mayfield or Rosen at being a top passer in the NFL. Mayfield and Rosen are pro ready now, whereas Allen probably needs more time/development. I also think Allen is stronger mentally, and that is a big thing being the face of the franchise moving forward.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The only QB I'd be irate with is Lamar Jackson.

 

That would be failure of epic proportions.

 

[Success]

It’s also tough to compare to EJ.  That was a guy who might have dropped a round or 2 had we not picked him, and really wasn’t graded as a first rounder by anyone.  

 

Most have Allen as a top 10 at worst, and more than a few have him as a potential #1.

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

compelling argument.  thanks for your input

I thought my argument was as compelling as yours...

[John from Riverside]

If they draft him....I fully expect him to be holding a clip board for at least a year ala Mahommes

[KDIGGZ]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I wouldn’t feel any differently if they stayed at 12

i would.  if 3 QB's go in the first 5 picks and we can't get up there and the only one left is Allen then I am fine taking him 7-12 and i will hope he pans out.

 

if they traded all of their picks because he is the one they targeted then i would lose a lot of faith in this front office.  he is a long term project that needs to sit 1-2 years minimum.  good luck with that though.  if we gave up all of those picks to have him sitting on the bench while AJ and Peterman lead us to a 6 win season, the fans will go nuts and demand they play the kid.  playing before you are ready is a good way to lose your confidence and wash out of the league.

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

The only QB I'd be irate with is Lamar Jackson.

 

That would be failure of epic proportions.

 

No it would not

[KDIGGZ]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I thought my argument was as compelling as yours...

sorry, i actually try and add value and have intelligent discussions with forum members.  if you aren't into that then go troll twitter or something

[GunnerBill]

If they traded up and took Allen when Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield were still there I think I'd feel worse.  We kind of knew 2013 was a shot at a QB in a not great QB draft.  I'd have taken EJ of the guys in play but I didn't think any of them were more than a coin flip.  The difference this time is there are guys I feel really good about up there.  IF we had built the capital, executed the trade up and then picked the guy who I am really not as high on I would be disappointed, no doubt about it.  Probably more disappointed given that context than 2013.

 

Of course if we draft Allen I will support him and drink the kool aid once I am over the disappointment but he will have work to do to totally win me over to him being "the guy".  

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

If they draft him....I fully expect him to be holding a clip board for at least a year ala Mahommes

For some folks, if he can't start year one, he isn't worthy of a top five pick.  I disagree with that criteria and hope we would follow a similar trajectory as that of Mahomes.

[KDIGGZ]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

He's right though.  The Bills needed a franchise QB and TRADED DOWN for Manuel because they didn't think he was worth a top-ten pick. 

 

Think about that for a second.

 

It's totally different than trading assets to move UP for your guy.

they reached for a projected 3rd round guy.  so they overpaid for a project QB because they were in a desperate situation without a franchise QB.  very similar situation

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would, I think.  I see Allen as a high-ceiling developmental prospect, the sort of guy you take at the top of the second (which becomes mid-to-low 1st with QB inflation).

So taking him just above the mid-1st isn't as terrible a reach.

Agree, if we stayed at 12 and the other top guys are gone, I take Allen at 12, but not before.

[CommonCents]

EJ cost me so much money while he was at FSU. I was sure of who he was when we drafted.

 

I have no opinion of Allen and I have spent the past year saying find their guy and go get em. So I'd be happy.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, kdiggz said:

they reached for a projected 3rd round guy.  so they overpaid for a project QB because they were in a desperate situation without a franchise QB.  very similar situation

Isn’t Allen projected to go top 5?

[drf1835]

22 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

...will you feel as bad as you did, or worse than you did, when the team drafted EJ?

 

Just trying to get the temperature of the fan base...now remember, the term “trading up” is emphasized.

 

If you wanted the true temperature of the fan base, you could have worded your question differently, as you seem to be assuming by your question that the fan base is all thinking negatively about trading up for Josh Allen. When you pose such an "or" question you should consider giving a choice for the opposite point of view too, like "....will you feel better, about the same or worse as when the team dtafted EJ."  Then all repliers could pick an option for them and explain why they felt that, after telling others here too how they felt about us drafting EJ, to put their answer into perspective, as we cannot assume either that all here were against that draft decision of EJ. In other words, your question makes assumptions, and leaves out opposing view options.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

they reached for a projected 3rd round guy.  so they overpaid for a project QB because they were in a desperate situation without a franchise QB.  very similar situation

I don't really see it.  Say they trade up to 2 and take Allen with Rosen and Mayfield available.  They would have to have evaluated all three and still concluded that Allen would eventually be the better pro.  EJ was in a bad year for qb; this isn't.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Dr. Who

[Like A Mofo]

If Buffalo trades up for Josh Allen: Sure, I'd be slightly disappointed but like the Bills fan I am: will support him and hope for the best. That is all we can do folks. Or just bandwagon like 75% of the New England fans.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

sorry, i actually try and add value and have intelligent discussions with forum members.  if you aren't into that then go troll twitter or something

Arguing that trading back and settling for, arguably, the best prospect of a weak QB class is the same as trading up and choosing who they feel is the best prospect of a strong QB class is not a terribly insightful or intelligent analysis. If you are not into those things, then perhaps you should take your own advice....

[26CornerBlitz]

[longtimebillsfan]

Personally, I see many similarities with this draft to 2013 when we just  had to find our franchise qb.  In 2013 the qb class had no real can't miss qb.  All the top qb's had flaws.  We all know how that draft worked out for us.

 

Because drafting any qb in this draft class is a gamble, I am in the camp that we should stay at 12 and draft the BPA and take a qb that warrants the pick we use.  Any time you draft for need instead of the BPA, that is often where the big "busts" happen.

 

Just my opinion.  but I would not be happy if we move up in the draft and give away much of our draft capital.  Let's take a qb that falls to us naturally and pick the BPA with each of our picks.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't really see it.  Say they trade up to 2 and take Allen with Rosen and Mayfield available.  They would have to have evaluated all three and still concluded that Allen would eventually be the better pro.  EJ was in a bad year for qb; this isn't.

I think that would be extremely difficult to do. You are giving up a ton of resources for a guy with a lot of risk, everyone agrees on that. So you have a QB who may turn out to be a 9.5 In Allen, as opposed to Rosen who's perhaps an 8.5-9.0. But, Rosen has a much greater chance of helping you in the short term.JMO

[billsfan1959]

7 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

they reached for a projected 3rd round guy.  so they overpaid for a project QB because they were in a desperate situation without a franchise QB.  very similar situation

That is to presuppose Josh Allen will be an overpaid, project QB, worthy of nothing more than a 3rd round pick. There is no way to know that at this point. 

[BillsFanForever19]

I wasn't upset when they drafted EJ Manuel. That class was so horrifically bad at QB and everyone knew it going in. Whoever we drafted, I knew was going to be a longshot to be good. But we didn't have a choice but to take one. To be honest, at the time, I was just glad that we didn't draft Ryan Nassib.

 

re: Josh Allen: I think where the trade up occurs matters. I don't want to see us trading up to #2 for him. But if they do, i'll know he was their guy. And i'll get over it. In time. Passing on either Darnold or Rosen for him would for sure sting though.

 

If Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield go in the top 4-5 picks and we can't get a partner up there - I would be fine with trading up as high as 5-6 for him. Provided they aren't asked to seriously overpay. 

 

Either way - trust the process and all will be fine. 

[billsfan1959]

12 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Isn’t Allen projected to go top 5?

Don't let facts get in the way....

[KDIGGZ]

9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Arguing that trading back and settling for, arguably, the best prospect of a weak QB class is the same as trading up and choosing who they feel is the best prospect of a strong QB class is not a terribly insightful or intelligent analysis. If you are not into those things, then perhaps you should take your own advice....

They are similar situations because the Bills were in a position where they had to take a QB and if they draft Allen they are going for the big strong project QB much like they did with EJ.  Your argument is that they are not the same kind of situation because this is a stronger QB class and that is another reason why I would not be happy with them taking Allen, because there are better, more developed players available.  To me, trading a bunch of picks to get Allen at 1 or 2 is overpaying.  To get to 1 or 2 it's going to take something like 12, 22, 53, 56, 93, next year's 1st.  Much different than getting him at 7-12 and maybe you only give up 12, 53.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, horned dogs said:

I think that would be extremely difficult to do. You are giving up a ton of resources for a guy with a lot of risk, everyone agrees on that. So you have a QB who may turn out to be a 9.5 In Allen, as opposed to Rosen who's perhaps an 8.5-9.0. But, Rosen has a much greater chance of helping you in the short term.JMO

I don't think there's any question Rosen is the safer pick.  He is also arguably the most ready to play.  My main emphasis in my rejoinder was that if Beane selects Allen, it will not be (as in 2013) because there really weren't any alternative choices worthy of consideration.  I infer from this that OBD will have determined Allen's potential fairly likely to be reached and worth waiting on.  They could be wrong, naturally.  

[Wsam4031]

no because I have more confidence in Beane then i did in whaley/Nix. Plus Allen is a LOT better then EJ could hope to be. Ill also feel good that they identified the guy they want and went and got him, no matter who it is

Edited April 18, 2018 by Wsam4031

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Were talking about QB's for the first time in a long time and so are our HC/GM which means they're more competent then many before them, I trust they'll due everything possible to ensure they find the right guy that fits what they want to do and if Allen is the guy I'd be quite happy since he's a top 5 QB in this draft no doubt.

[Jay_Fixit]

I’d be pretty fired up and also I’d be fired up.

 

But deep down inside I’d convince myself there was a reason for the move and I’d trust their judgement.

 

While being fired up.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't think there's any question Rosen is the safer pick.  He is also arguably the most ready to play.  My main emphasis in my rejoinder was that if Beane selects Allen, it will not be (as in 2013) because there really weren't any alternative choices worthy of consideration.  I infer from this that OBD will have determined Allen's potential fairly likely to be reached and worth waiting on.  They could be wrong, naturally.  

I don't see this as anything like 2013 at all. Allen is a much better prospect than EJ ever dreamed of being. My point is that the upside isn't a likely thing, and you don't trade up for it unless you have too in a year with other strong candidates. Therefore, with 3 other candidates of a higher probability  of success (though perhaps a little lower ceiling), those are the guys you move up for.

[Poleshifter]

I will be very happy if they draft Josh Allen, even trading up.

 

There can be NO COMPARISON with EJ Manuel.

 

[Mrbojanglezs]

Depends where. If QBs go 123 and Allen is still on the board and we trade up to like 7 I could live with it. But not at 2

[CNY315]

Probably just keep watching the first quarter against CMU to psych myself into being excited about it