CommonCents Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Just now, the skycap said: If you watched his games, you'd see all the passes that were dropped by his receivers. ALL QBs have errand throws!! Women always make more errand throws than men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 minute ago, the skycap said: If you watched his games, you'd see all the passes that were dropped by his receivers. ALL QBs have errand throws!! I call BS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, the skycap said: But Josh Allen is top tier? I call BS!! My personal take? Nope, not at all. BUT, he does have the freaky physical traits that NFL management loves. Did you see him at the combine? I don't think he's worth a top 5 pick, but watching him make those throws was impressive! IMO, he doesn't have the game talent to succeed, especially early in his career. But GM's love the measurables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Jackson appears to be one of the most polarizing players in this draft class. I truly believe that there are some teams that do not even see him as a QB and are serious about exploring a projection to WR. Those teams likely would not draft him on day one and probably not day 2. Meanwhile, other teams really do believe that he is one of the top QBs in this draft. As we know, it only takes one team to fall in love with a player -- which is why I think he goes in the first round, possibly before the Bills select at #21. I expect that Petrino will be fielding plenty of questions from NFL scouts/GMs/coaches about whether or not Jackson has the goods to be an NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What I think is racist is referring to Jackson as a project and Allen as a #1 pick. NFL Scouts love size and arm strength in Quarterbacks. They always have and always will. Cam Newton was a read-option QB in college, with horrible mechanics and accuracy issues. Yet he went #1 in one of the most stacked drafts in NFL history. When teams see Josh Allen, they see his physical size and one of the strongest arms in 10 years. Lamar Jackson is 2 inches shorter, 30 pounds lighter and an above-average arm. Edited March 8, 2018 by mjt328 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Just now, mjt328 said: NFL Scouts love size and arm strength in Quarterbacks. They always have and always will. Cam Newton was a read-option QB in college, with horrible mechanics and accuracy issues. Yet he went #1 in one of the most stacked drafts in NFL history. When teams see Josh Allen, they see his physical size and one of the strongest arms in 10 years. Lamar Jackson is 2 inches shorter, 30 pounds lighter and an above-average arm. I take your point. Maybe it's not racist, maybe it's just short sighted, given the CHFF on how few QB that aren't >60% in college succeed in the pros, unless they have durn good reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: really good video and points being made about Lamar Jackson. I’m beginning to think that this might be the very best QB this draft has to offer. watch this video and see for your self. Also just because you don’t like his throwing style or his narrow base is not a good argument. The results that are all that matters. He has the size the we crave for a qb and body type. Also might be the fastest QB ever. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. There wasn't any video of jackson in there. lol Just a couple of fanboys whining that everyone doesn't agree with them... Nancy's. This video adds absolutely zero evidence to any point about anything regarding Lamar Jackson except that some Bills fans on Bills forums are very gullible when it comes to accepting other people's opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 minute ago, mjt328 said: NFL Scouts love size and arm strength in Quarterbacks. They always have and always will. Cam Newton was a read-option QB in college, with horrible mechanics and accuracy issues. Yet he went #1 in one of the most stacked drafts in NFL history. When teams see Josh Allen, they see his physical size and one of the strongest arms in 10 years. Lamar Jackson is 2 inches shorter, 30 pounds lighter and an above-average arm. 100% on point. When I think of Allen, I think of Jamarcus Russell. Threw the ball 70 yards from his knees and that's what got him in the NFL. Size and strength trumps a lot of other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Acantha said: My personal take? Nope, not at all. BUT, he does have the freaky physical traits that NFL management loves. Did you see him at the combine? I don't think he's worth a top 5 pick, but watching him make those throws was impressive! IMO, he doesn't have the game talent to succeed, especially early in his career. But GM's love the measurables. So his strong arm makes him accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, the skycap said: So his strong arm makes him accurate? Please, take a moment and show me where I said something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, brianthomas said: A post last night showed what the velocity numbers were for the qb's that threw at the combine. Jackson had one of the worst (slowest) velocity on his throws. Combine that with his accuracy stats from college, along with his combine performance & i think thats why people are critical of Jackson. It should be mentioned that it was pointed out by someone (Ben Allbright? Yes) pointed out that last year, the official velocity numbers differed a lot from OurLads, the ones that were posted last night https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/971601107569922048 And people were way critical of Jackson before those velocity numbers and before the combine, for rationales that don't match up what is seen on film. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, the skycap said: If you watched his games, you'd see all the passes that were dropped by his receivers. ALL QBs have errand throws!! I call BS!! Besides scrambling, what is SOOO amazing about Jackson? Edited March 8, 2018 by Tatonka68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: really good video and points being made about Lamar Jackson. I’m beginning to think that this might be the very best QB this draft has to offer. watch this video and see for your self. Also just because you don’t like his throwing style or his narrow base is not a good argument. The results that are all that matters. He has the size the we crave for a qb and body type. Also might be the fastest QB ever. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. Per the bold text, that's just not true. If he were white and from Tennessee, he'd have the exact same question marks going coming out of college. There are legitimate concerns regarding his ability, just as there are for all the other prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Well, I saw the thing from Ourlads, but If that is unreliable than I do not know and I may very well be wrong. Though I would say that it seems pretty obvious that Allen has a higher ceiling as a straight passer due to his incredible arm so if the two of them had the same accuracy knocks, that might be where Allen get's labeled differently. I understand. There have been some very good scouting breakdowns of Jackson pointing out where and when his accuracy breaks down: when he's throwing in such tight quarters that he can't gt his hips turned and step into his throw properly. I can watch Jackson throw on tape and tell you if it will be inaccurate or not. I can't do that with Allen In addition, while Jackson's completion percentage has increased So-Jr yr and his WR had the most drops, Allen's did not increase and his WR had half the drops. So I'm not sure I agree about the "higher ceiling as a straight passer", but I do agree that the "Big Boy with Howitzer" love seems to overpower the NFL track record some of these draftees actually have, with NFL scouts. 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: Per the bold text, that's just not true. If he were white and from Tennessee, he'd have the exact same question marks going coming out of college. There are legitimate concerns regarding his ability, just as there are for all the other prospects. I agree. But I do think his personal choice to play QB and not WR would be better respected if he were. Maybe just me. 6 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: I call BS!! Besides scrambling, what is SOOO amazing about Jackson? Here. Good place to start. Look at the .gifs https://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-lamar-jackson-louisville/ Edited March 8, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, kdiggz said: It can't be because he's just not a very good passer with poor form and accuracy? Has to be racist? Oh boy I agree about the race part, it's stupid but they do refer to running QB's as "projects" quite alot. Is he not a very good passer? His WR/TE as a group had 38 dropped passes (I believe that's what I read), I'm not sure what % of those passes were catchable or poorly thrown but let's just take half of those dropped passes (19), what would his completion rate be with the extra 19 catches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: really good video and points being made about Lamar Jackson. I’m beginning to think that this might be the very best QB this draft has to offer. watch this video and see for your self. Also just because you don’t like his throwing style or his narrow base is not a good argument. The results that are all that matters. He has the size the we crave for a qb and body type. Also might be the fastest QB ever. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. you had a good point up until "if he was White and played at Tenn." Luke Falk has amazing accuracy, and is also knocked for having a "small frame," like Jackson. Although Falk is not fast, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think that the media and fans are going to be shocked at where and when Jackson gets selected. He's perfectly built for the modern "RPO" NFL style of play and I think he'll become an even better version of what we saw of DeSean Watson. I think his somewhat "street" look and demeanor is a certainly part of the reason that he's not being seriously considered as a top 4 prospect. The media and fans see this demeanor as lacking intelligence for the QB position. I don't see that. You just need football intelligence and the intangibles factor. He has those traits IMO. He also the ability to elude defenders at the NFL level that hasn't been seen since Vick. Elusiveness = HUGE plays in NFL games. With Jackson, his legs will more than make up for the 3-4 extra misfires on throws that the more accurate QBs can make. The final thing that Jackson has is his likeability, team mates will want to make plays for him. Dudes got it all IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 33 minutes ago, PolishDave said: There wasn't any video of jackson in there. lol Just a couple of fanboys whining that everyone doesn't agree with them... Nancy's. This video adds absolutely zero evidence to any point about anything regarding Lamar Jackson except that some Bills fans on Bills forums are very gullible when it comes to accepting other people's opinions. I actually must agree with that. Although I like Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I hope he's there at 21. The first round is going to be fun to watch. I could see 5 QB's gone by 21, or only 2 (Rosen and Darnold). Depends on whether the Saints, Steelers, etc. try to draft backups--and if Miami still wants to go w/ Tanny. If I'm the Saints and Steelers, no way I draft a QB. I'm going to max out on Brees and Ben's window to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: But he is a good passer you just don’t like his throwing style. You can’t say he’s not a good passer satistics do not back you up. Lmao...why do folks compare players? Because its valid. He is somewhere between Tyrod n Vick. Enough said. I dont want him unless its in the 2nd. Even then Id have reservations. Enough of "the next best thing". Just get us a REAL QB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 How did Jackson do in class? I read straight a’s in high school but haven’t seen any college info. I believe watson graduated. Jackson is my third best qb in this draft and has a very good chance if he gets a smart coach like Pederson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I'd be okay with jackson as long as we dont move up to get him. If he's there at 21 or 22 than hey i'll take it. But i'd really prefer to see Baker Mayfield. I just like his attitude & his accuracy numbers have gone up every year ive seen. Not to mention dude has a cannon for an arm. His velocity is good which in the cold & windy weather here in Buffalo will be really important for cutting thru the wind. But if we get Jackson, putting him with Daboll & running the system he's familiar with, i'll still be happy with it. I mean with drafting only what is it, 3 qb's in the 1st round in the past 20 years, i'll take anything at this point. I really wanted Mahomes or Watson last year & wish we wouldve gotten our qb then, but now is the time... No more kicking the can down the road. I say draft a qb every 1st round til we get our guy... enough is enough.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: really good video and points being made about Lamar Jackson. I’m beginning to think that this might be the very best QB this draft has to offer. watch this video and see for your self. Also just because you don’t like his throwing style or his narrow base is not a good argument. The results that are all that matters. He has the size the we crave for a qb and body type. Also might be the fastest QB ever. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. amazing post. most here won't like it, or agree, or even acknowledge the of essence of the topic, but it's spot on. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 57 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I agree. But I do think his personal choice to play QB and not WR would be better respected if he were. Maybe just me. This is a fair point, imo. Personally, I think the desire to see him at wideout speaks to his extraordinary athletic talent rather than what it says about his ability (or lack thereof) as a QB. And I fully supported his decision not to work out at the WR position at the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxxxxxx Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said: I disagree that the color of his skin has anything to do with most people’s assessment of him. Most people are siting accuracy issues, low velocity, etc, as issues, not skin color. low velocity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Oh.... he isnt white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said: low velocity? Someone stated earlier that his ball velocity at the Combine was below 50MPH and therefore speculated that this was an indicator for failure in the NFL. Edited March 8, 2018 by buffaloboyinATL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: I compared him to Cam because his size and how he plays football. Jackson mostly compares to how Cam Newton plays. Now if the way he plays the game was like Kurt Cousins I would have compared him to Kurt Cousins. Or Jamarcus Russel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxxxxxx Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Thanks. He can throw the ball 60 yards on a rope, so I can't see that being an issue. 15 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Someone stated earlier that his ball velocity at the Combine was below 50MPH and therefore speculated that this was an indicator for failure in the NFL. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Someone stated earlier that his ball velocity at the Combine was below 50MPH and therefore speculated that this was an indicator for failure in the NFL. Tyrod was at 50 exactly i guess, but he seems to have quite a bit of zip on the ball. Arm strength is one of the things you can't really knock him on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: That accuracy issue has been debunked. So many dropped passes he would be right up there as far as the other QB’s You can't debunk game tape. It's nothing racial. He, Allen and Mayfield are developmental guys, IMO. Edited March 8, 2018 by Chicken Boo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: Well I will say this I think he will end up being better then Cam Newton. And I will add, even with his thin frame, he’s a helluva lot tougher than Josh Rosen...I envision that guy dropping due to his injury history...he is one concussion away fro “night night forever” imo. Edited March 8, 2018 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) I love the certainty displayed by many of you. I hope the Bills know more than we do, and that they make the right choice. By the way, I just read that Lamar ran a 4.34 40 yesterday at Louisville. That's fast, isn't it? Edited March 9, 2018 by TC in St. Louis more information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: That accuracy issue has been debunked. So many dropped passes he would be right up there as far as the other QB’s And if the other QBs dropped passes we're counted wouldn't their stats improve too? Also can drops always be attributed to the catcher? As am sure some of them weren't the b St of passes either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 4 hours ago, whatdrought said: Also of note in this thread... Chris Simms is almost as annoying to look at/listen to as his father is... If he was black you would be called a racist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Maybe I could give Rosen a pass, but I think all the other QBs in this draft are to some degree "project QBs" because they have issues that will need to be resolved before they can become top notch NFL QBs. I think Lamar Jackson's biggest issue is developing consistent mechanics. He has excellent mechanics sometimes, but at other times he gets sloppy. That's when his accuracy slips. I would not be disappointed if Buffalo drafts him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: You can't debunk game tape. It's nothing racial. He, Allen and Mayfield are developmental guys, IMO. Not sure how you watch a bunch of game tape and put Mayfield, Jackson, and Allen in the same bin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Meh. I really like Jackson. But I don't think it's racist to refer to him as a bit of a project. He is a bit of a project. He's done some good stuff, and his WR didn't help him out too much, and there are times when his technique isn't right and he's inaccurate because of it. What I think is racist is referring to Jackson as a project and Allen as a #1 pick. Allen is a project x2. He's inaccurate at times for reasons I can't pick up. If you can't pick it up, you can't fix it. I doubt me some me on that topic, but I've also read some pretty good draft analysts saying as much. Jackson is not the best QB in the draft - looking at nothing else (height etc), that might be Mayfield or that might be Rosen (depending upon how you weight things). But I'd be happy if we were able to give Jackson a shot. Now, repeatedly asking him to work out or change positions or what have you at WR that's just wrong. So what do you think of Allen's accuracy issues and where do you have him ranked? I actually feel Allen is a more accurate passer than Jackson. Saying that I think Allen does a very poor job reading defences and that is also a fatal flaw. I have him as my QB 5 or 6. Still trying to figure out if Rudolph is a better prospect than him. I am not saying Jackson won't be able to have some success as a QB. His running ability is the best I have ever seen from the QB position and he does have the ability to make good throws. I think he will have success against bottom 10 defences but will struggle when the better defences take away his running game and force him to win throwing the ball. Only because he has very inconsistent accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) This game highlights a lot of Jacksons negatives. He makes a lot of wow plays as well, which is exciting, but there is no consistency with he accuracy. His inconsistency leads to a lot of mistakes. Edited March 9, 2018 by billspro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: really good video and points being made about Lamar Jackson. I’m beginning to think that this might be the very best QB this draft has to offer. watch this video and see for your self. Also just because you don’t like his throwing style or his narrow base is not a good argument. The results that are all that matters. He has the size the we crave for a qb and body type. Also might be the fastest QB ever. If this guy was white and played at Tenn he be the 1st pick in the draft. Ahhh how I miss the good old days before the airways were littered with talking head buzzword rants. That was about as devoid of substance as I imagine any of the “Housewives” series or “The Bachelor” to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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