Former NFL Lineman Jonathan Martin Seems Very Troubled - Has Been Taken into Custody

[Rob's House]

I feel vindicated when these J-Mart stories come out. I was one of the first to call bull **** on the bully story and took God knows how much flack for it. People were super pissed off declaring Incognito the scum of the earth and holding Martin up as both a victim and courageous survivor. Turns out they were all full of ****.

 

The moral of the story is that knee-jerk, easily outraged manginas who see the world comprised of victims and victimizers are almost always wrong.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Rob's House

[papazoid]

to me...this was Jonathan referring to himself when he said...."when you're a bully victim & a coward..."

 

he thinks he was bullied AND a coward for not standing up to it.

 

he then is accepting the options are self harm (suicide) or revenge (hit list)

 

dude is a lost soul....needs help

 

 

[Bakin]

5 hours ago, Billschinatown said:

 

I have no doubt the dude got the worst of it. Those texts between him and Richie were something else. Honestly it sounded kind of fun to me....but I'm more partial to hookers and blow than he probably is. 

 

That being said....this is an insane post by Martin 

Those texts were great. I remember reading all 100 pages while waiting for a flight in some god forsaken country. 

 

Jonathan Martin was a big kitty crybaby and he needed to be bullied more, I guess. 

What an idiot. 

[#34fan]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

It's pretty clear from the phrasing Martin wasn't making a statement on bullying, he was making a statement on COWARDICE...that the coward's way out of bullying is to shoot up a school.  He wasn't issuing a threat, he was calling the shooters cowards.

 

Has everyone really become this obtuse.

 

Dumbest. Take. Ever.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I will be very interested to see how quickly (if at all) official NFL channels begin their reporting on this... Seems like the whole thing with him was meant to be swept under the rug and this really paints the NFL in a bad light.

 

I don't follow this at all.  The guy has been out of the league how long?  Since 2013?  2014?

As a general principal, is the NFL responsible if any of its former employees do something nutso 4 years later?

 

Martin is one sick puppy

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

A real problem we have is the victim mentality.  Sometimes people are dicks and there's no doubt about that.  But the bull **** social media outrage about every little thing has become ridiculous. Everyone who gets their feelings hurt now has the ability to get on a soapbox and rage against the world. It's a shame because some people have real struggles, but for the most part it's just a bunch of sheep trying to get followers and be relevant on social media. 

I'd be interested in reading more on this. Can i get a link.

 

Google "Incognito texts"

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

What he wrote was inappropriate.  But his former Dolphins teammates obviously saw it and still supported him and not Martin. 

 

 

That likely was what he was going for, but he shouldn't have included the picture of the gun, much less put the names of the HS and Dolphins on it. 

 

That they supported him and not Martin really is beside the point.  He wasn't directing his inappropriate texts and harassment to them.  Check out his special treatment of the Asian trainer as well.  Cool stuff.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kmart128 said:

 

I know his words... Have you ever heard friends talk with each other? Friends jokingly say those things all the time. Maybe the words weren't misconstrued but maybe the the intent was. I mean it just wasn't Richie who was accused but John Jerry and Mike Pouncey as well... I highly doubt that 3 different teammates all meant what was being said and we're trying to bully. Just probably some joking locker room talk among friends.

 

 

I'm sure your friends talk about ejaculating in your mother's mouth and pulling a train on your sister all the time.  Good point!

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Google "Incognito texts"

 

 

That they supported him and not Martin really is beside the point.  He wasn't directing his inappropriate texts and harassment to them.  Check out his special treatment of the Asian trainer as well.  Cool stuff.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure your friends talk about ejaculating in your mother's mouth and pulling a train on your sister all the time.  Good point!

 

 

They probbaly dont do that kinda stuff on the chess team huh? 

[#34fan]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't follow this at all.  The guy has been out of the league how long?  Since 2013?  2014?

As a general principal, is the NFL responsible if any of its former employees do something nutso 4 years later?

 

 

How do you think his old high school feels! -Calling a lockdown for a kid that graduated 10 years ago... -It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

I feel vindicated when these J-Mart stories come out. I was one of the first to call bull **** on the bully story and took God knows how much flack for it. People were super pissed off declaring Incognito the scum of the earth and holding Martin up as both a victim and courageous survivor. Turns out they were all full of ****.

 

The moral of the story is that knee-jerk, easily outraged manginas who see the world comprised of victims and victimizers are almost always wrong.

 

Rob's House, not meaning to pick a scab, but I don't understand the vindiction thing at all.

 

At the time it was pretty clear that Martin had serious mental health problems, and now it looks like his treatment hasn't been able to help him much

 

But two things can be true at once, right?  Incognito can have been out of control bullying, AND Martin can be a Grade A Headcase, right?

 

Some of the stuff called out on Cog at the time - not just with Martin, but with trainers and others - was way out of line and not "he said, she said" either.

 

Not the first time a group of OLmen have gone nutsoid, either.  Ever seen this story?  https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brett-favre-book-jeff-pearlman-atlanta-falcons-green-bay-packers-101816   (scroll down about 1/3 of the way or search for Bill Fralic)

 

[Buffalo Ballin]

26 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Those texts were great. I remember reading all 100 pages while waiting for a flight in some god forsaken country. 

 

Jonathan Martin was a big kitty crybaby and he needed to be bullied more, I guess. 

What an idiot. 

 

Think before you post. Wow. This was plain dumb.

[RaoulDuke79]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Google "Incognito texts"

I did and there's thousands of them evidently.....in this one Pouncey and incognito said some very derogatory things emasculstung Martin.

 

I'm no trying  to sift through all of them tonight.  

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2014/2/14/5411608/worst-of-the-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-report-miami-dolphins

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

I did and there's thousands of them evidently.....in this one Pouncey and incognito said some very derogatory things emasculstung Martin.

 

I'm no trying  to sift through all of them tonight.  

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2014/2/14/5411608/worst-of-the-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-report-miami-dolphins

 

 

It's a treasure trove

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, #34fan said:

How do you think his old high school feels! -Calling a lockdown for a kid that graduated 10 years ago... -It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

 

What I really think is sad: 

 

Guy like JMart with all the family support and financial resources he needs, has been seeking some form of mental health treatment for what, 5 years now?  and is still obviously a sicko whether because he isn't accepting the treatment he needs or the SOFTA in mental health treatment is just not that good

 

So what chance does someone from an unstable or low resource family, without good health insurance and living from paycheck to paycheck have?

[CommonCents]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

I feel vindicated when these J-Mart stories come out. I was one of the first to call bull **** on the bully story and took God knows how much flack for it. People were super pissed off declaring Incognito the scum of the earth and holding Martin up as both a victim and courageous survivor. Turns out they were all full of ****.

 

The moral of the story is that knee-jerk, easily outraged manginas who see the world comprised of victims and victimizers are almost always wrong.

Maginas wearing skinny jeans! Don't worry about the Jills returning, we will soon have the Jacks dancing around in mini skirts!

[Rob's House]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Rob's House, not meaning to pick a scab, but I don't understand the vindiction thing at all.

 

At the time it was pretty clear that Martin had serious mental health problems, and now it looks like his treatment hasn't been able to help him much

 

But two things can be true at once, right?  Incognito can have been out of control bullying, AND Martin can be a Grade A Headcase, right?

 

Some of the stuff called out on Cog at the time - not just with Martin, but with trainers and others - was way out of line and not "he said, she said" either.

 

Not the first time a group of OLmen have gone nutsoid, either.  Ever seen this story?  https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brett-favre-book-jeff-pearlman-atlanta-falcons-green-bay-packers-101816   (scroll down about 1/3 of the way or search for Bill Fralic)

 

The trainer thing was bull **** too. I remember a teammatewho was pissed off at that report because he said those things might have been said but it wasn't the way it was portrayed. 

 

Guys !@#$ with their friends, and immature, high-testosterone meatheads sometimes take it further than normal.

 

Given the support of his teammates, no one taking up for Martin, Martin giving it back, and what we now know about Martin, it seems pretty clear that they thought Martin knew they were just busting his balls and Martin was fronting like he was in on the joke while secretly melting down inside until he snapped.

[#34fan]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So what chance does someone from an unstable or low resource family, without good health insurance and living from paycheck to paycheck have?

 

They have an excellent chance.

 

-Of going out and buying an assault rifle.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

The trainer thing was bull **** too. I remember a teammatewho was pissed off at that report because he said those things might have been said but it wasn't the way it was portrayed. 

 

Guys !@#$ with their friends, and immature, high-testosterone meatheads sometimes take it further than normal.

 

Given the support of his teammates, no one taking up for Martin, Martin giving it back, and what we now know about Martin, it seems pretty clear that they thought Martin knew they were just busting his balls and Martin was fronting like he was in on the joke while secretly melting down inside until he snapped.

 

Nope:

 

"Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey admitted that they directed racially derogatory words toward him, including "Jap" and "Chinaman." At times, according to Martin, they referred to the Assistant Trainer as a "dirty communist" or a "North Korean," made demands such as "give me some water you f***** chink," spoke to him in a phony, mocking Asian accent, including asking for "rubby rubby sucky sucky," and called his mother a "rub and tug masseuse." Martin and others informed us that Incognito and Jerry taunted the Assistant Trainer with jokes about having sex with his girlfriend. Incognito admitted that these types of comments were made to the Assistant Trainer. 

On December 7, 2012 (the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor), Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey donned traditional Japanese headbands that featured a rising sun emblem and jokingly threatened to harm the Assistant Trainer physically in retaliation for the Pearl Harbor attack. Martin reported that the Assistant Trainer confided to him that he was upset about the Pearl Harbor prank, finding it derogatory and demeaning."

 

As far as just busting Martin's balls, also wrong:

 

Incognito recorded a $200 fine against himself for "breaking Jmart," awarded another lineman who had been verbally taunted a $250 bonus for "not cracking first," and wrote down a number of penalties against Martin for acting like a "kitty." The evidence shows, and Incognito did not dispute, that "breaking Jmart" meant causing Martin to have an emotional reaction in response to taunting. 

Approximately one week after Martin left the team, on November 3, 2013, Incognito wrote nearly identical text messages to Pouncey and another lineman: "They're going to suspend me Please destroy the fine book first thing in the morning."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Rob's House said:

The trainer thing was bull **** too. I remember a teammatewho was pissed off at that report because he said those things might have been said but it wasn't the way it was portrayed. 

 

Guys !@#$ with their friends, and immature, high-testosterone meatheads sometimes take it further than normal.

 

Given the support of his teammates, no one taking up for Martin, Martin giving it back, and what we now know about Martin, it seems pretty clear that they thought Martin knew they were just busting his balls and Martin was fronting like he was in on the joke while secretly melting down inside until he snapped.

 

I don't know if the trainer thing was "bull ****".  Apparently the trainer didn't think so?  The female volunteer at the golf tournament and so forth.  She didn't think so either.  Basically,  I think you need to take the teammate support and teammate speaking against the report on the trainer with perhaps a bit more grains of salt than you seem to be doing.

 

Your last two sentences I'm basically on board with - change it from "normal" to "further than appropriate in any business environment" and I'm there.

 

The real problem on the Dolphins, IMO was the coaching staff and they set 'Cog up to be the fall guy for them - telling him to "toughen JMart up" and basically turning a blind eye to "Animal House" underway that followed, just like Glanville did in Atlanta (if you didn't check out that link, might want to, quite the story about the Falcons locker room).

 

The whole unstated elephant in the thing was hinted at in the Jax game - that IN THE GAME, guys are saying this crap to each other to try to provoke penalties or get in a guy's head, "we're gonna run train on your sister, I hear she's a squirter" and so forth, hence the coach's perceived need for someone to "toughen JMart up" and a team-sanctioned motivation for some of what went down (IMO, though I think it went further and darker than the coach would have intended).

[Murdox]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Except Cruz wasn't suicidal....he high tailed it out of there before the guys with guns showed up.

 

 

That's just because he "chickened" out.  When you start a rampage like that, the general assumption is your life is over.  You don't start shooting up a school with the expectation you will survive.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Murdox said:

 

That's just because he "chickened" out.  When you start a rampage like that, the general assumption is your life is over.  You don't start shooting up a school with the expectation you will survive.

 

 

His plan was not to get killed. This couldn't be more obvious based on his actions and his plan.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[Rob's House]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know if the trainer thing was "bull ****".  Apparently the trainer didn't think so?  The female volunteer at the golf tournament and so forth.  She didn't think so either.  Basically,  I think you need to take the teammate support and teammate speaking against the report on the trainer with perhaps a bit more grains of salt than you seem to be doing.

 

Your last two sentences I'm basically on board with - change it from "normal" to "further than appropriate in any business environment" and I'm there.

 

The real problem on the Dolphins, IMO was the coaching staff and they set 'Cog up to be the fall guy for them - telling him to "toughen JMart up" and basically turning a blind eye to "Animal House" underway that followed, just like Glanville did in Atlanta (if you didn't check out that link, might want to, quite the story about the Falcons locker room).

 

The whole unstated elephant in the thing was hinted at in the Jax game - that IN THE GAME, guys are saying this crap to each other to try to provoke penalties or get in a guy's head, "we're gonna run train on your sister, I hear she's a squirter" and so forth, hence the coach's perceived need for someone to "toughen JMart up" and a team-sanctioned motivation for some of what went down (IMO, though I think it went further and darker than the coach would have intended).

There's a big difference between saying a guy has a tendency to act inappropriately and saying he systematically and intentionally bullied someone to the point of breaking them down.

 

We as people have the intellectual capacity to differentiate degrees of wrongdoing.

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Nope:

 

"Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey admitted that they directed racially derogatory words toward him, including "Jap" and "Chinaman." At times, according to Martin, they referred to the Assistant Trainer as a "dirty communist" or a "North Korean," made demands such as "give me some water you f***** chink," spoke to him in a phony, mocking Asian accent, including asking for "rubby rubby sucky sucky," and called his mother a "rub and tug masseuse." Martin and others informed us that Incognito and Jerry taunted the Assistant Trainer with jokes about having sex with his girlfriend. Incognito admitted that these types of comments were made to the Assistant Trainer. 

On December 7, 2012 (the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor), Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey donned traditional Japanese headbands that featured a rising sun emblem and jokingly threatened to harm the Assistant Trainer physically in retaliation for the Pearl Harbor attack. Martin reported that the Assistant Trainer confided to him that he was upset about the Pearl Harbor prank, finding it derogatory and demeaning."

 

As far as just busting Martin's balls, also wrong:

 

Incognito recorded a $200 fine against himself for "breaking Jmart," awarded another lineman who had been verbally taunted a $250 bonus for "not cracking first," and wrote down a number of penalties against Martin for acting like a "kitty." The evidence shows, and Incognito did not dispute, that "breaking Jmart" meant causing Martin to have an emotional reaction in response to taunting. 

Approximately one week after Martin left the team, on November 3, 2013, Incognito wrote nearly identical text messages to Pouncey and another lineman: "They're going to suspend me Please destroy the fine book first thing in the morning."

This is pathetic.

[#34fan]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know if the trainer thing was "bull ****".  Apparently the trainer didn't think so?  The female volunteer at the golf tournament and so forth.  She didn't think so either.  Basically,  I think you need to take the teammate support and teammate speaking against the report on the trainer with perhaps a bit more grains of salt than you seem to be doing.

 

Your last two sentences I'm basically on board with - change it from "normal" to "further than appropriate in any business environment" and I'm there.

 

The real problem on the Dolphins, IMO was the coaching staff and they set 'Cog up to be the fall guy for them - telling him to "toughen JMart up" and basically turning a blind eye to "Animal House" underway that followed, just like Glanville did in Atlanta (if you didn't check out that link, might want to, quite the story about the Falcons locker room).

 

The whole unstated elephant in the thing was hinted at in the Jax game - that IN THE GAME, guys are saying this crap to each other to try to provoke penalties or get in a guy's head, "we're gonna run train on your sister, I hear she's a squirter" and so forth, hence the coach's perceived need for someone to "toughen JMart up" and a team-sanctioned motivation for some of what went down (IMO, though I think it went further and darker than the coach would have intended).

 

The common thread in all this is people in a position to change the outcome failing to act.   -Which there may be a good reason for.... Say somebody steps in and tells Incognito to STFU against the coaches wishes... Now they're looking at repercussions up to, and including an early exit from camp... What's in it for the person who CHOOSES to speak up?

[whatdrought]

6 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

Well, on the one hand... This is potentially another CTE/football related mental health issue and those continue to be a sore spot/spot of contention for the NFL. 

Secondly, if this is a pre-existing mental health issue it points to the fact that this guy worked for the NFL (specifically for the dolphins) for several years and people did not notice/pick up on the issues he was dealing with or else did not pursue getting him needed help. 

Thirdly, it brings into question how readily the NFL was to listen and discipline other people based on the testimony of an (apparently) deranged person. 

 

The Title of this very thread is why it looks bad: "Former NFL Lineman" ..... That is going to be the tagline whether or not it's deserved. 

 

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't follow this at all.  The guy has been out of the league how long?  Since 2013?  2014?

As a general principal, is the NFL responsible if any of its former employees do something nutso 4 years later?

 

Martin is one sick puppy

 

 

 

 

And NFL.com still has not acknowledged this incident at all which seems unusual considering they regularly cover any notable news regarding ex players. 

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Settle down white knight, the guy has made flat out racist statements in print. You should read the article and see this gem:

 

"you learn to tone down your size & blackness by becoming shy, introverted, friendly, so you won’t scare the little rich white kids or their parents."

Obviously a guy with emotional issues. The poster I quoted also seems to have some anger issues with people of different political views.

 

But don't act like code-switching isn't a real thing black people have to do to not feel so exposed.

[Doc]

35 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

And NFL.com still has not acknowledged this incident at all which seems unusual considering they regularly cover any notable news regarding ex players. 

 

Probably because it potentially casts a negative light on their handling of that whole situation, i.e. that Martin was troubled well before RI got to him. 

[#34fan]

 

1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

But don't act like code-switching isn't a real thing black people have to do to not feel so exposed.

 

He definitely sounds repressed... Enter Richie Incognito to drop chow right in the cornflakes of his hard-won success.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Probably because it potentially casts a negative light on their handling of that whole situation, i.e. that Martin was troubled well before RI got to him. 

 

Troubled is the right term here because we don't know if there's mental illness involved or what.  But posting what he did indicates that his issues are far deeper than simply what happened when he played for Miami. 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

And NFL.com still has not acknowledged this incident at all which seems unusual considering they regularly cover any notable news regarding ex players. 

Still no mention of the story.  They obviously want to stick straight to football given their declining ratings.

[JerseyBills]

9 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

But for now long..he can only be kept for 48hrs for a mental evaluation.

True..But if they deem him to be mentally unstable and/or at risk to hurt himself or others they can keep him for however long they feel is needed. Almost certain he will be committed to a facility for an extended period of time.

 

After the tragedy at the Florida high school, they will certainly be keeping him on lock down for a couple months at least. Better safe than sorry

[Bakin]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

 

Think before you post. Wow. This was plain dumb.

Maybe you need a good bullying, too. 

Martin is an idiot and has been a huge puss since Day 1. 

And now Martin probably went through years of psychoanalysis and drug therapy only to come crashing back down to reality. 

 

Less drugs and more bullying.

 

find me one person who wasn’t bullied and harrassed as a kid and didn’t end up on meds. I’ll find you a strong person. 

[Chimp]

16 hours ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

Conservative thinking: 

 

"Let's give all these NFL players guns now to protect themselves from other retired/bullied players."

 

LOL

Liberal thinking.  Let's let little kids get murdered so we can confiscate guns we don't even know exist.  

[CuddyDark]

Because I have such a strong aversion to bulling I can't comment on this topic.

[papazoid]

teasing< insults < bullying

 

not sure anyone alive has escaped some form of bullying

 

from my own experience it dies down if you laugh along with them....it persists if they know it bugs ya

I know that's not "PC"...but its effective

[aristocrat]

15 minutes ago, Chimp said:

Liberal thinking.  Let's let little kids get murdered so we can confiscate guns we don't even know exist.  

 

All nfl coaches must carry guns to protect from players coming after them right? It sounds like addicts talking. Gotta get guns man, coming for my guns. You got any guns? Try this gun man it’s the best!  

 

Meanwhile in reality...

[nedboy7]

No need to judge anyone or pretend like you know the story cause you read about it on some "news" site.  If you are on meds you forfeit your guns.  Simple.  All rights have common sense limits. 

33 minutes ago, Chimp said:

Liberal thinking.  Let's let little kids get murdered so we can confiscate guns we don't even know exist.  

 

the reality is not all conservatives or liberals think the way the media makes you believe they think.  btw talking about letting kids get murdered is way off and disrespectful.  Hopefully you can learn to think independently and not let fox put words in your brain. 

[Big Turk]

Ok so here is the problem. What are they going to charge him with? He's not going to get any real time even if convicted and doubtful he is put in a Looney bin.

 

Its not like in Minority Report where you get  arrested and convicted prior to committimg the crime...

 

People talk about "Oh you need to report stuff blah blah blah". I agree you do. But what is going to happen once reported? They are going to throw him in jail for life because he is a future school shooter? Likely nothing is going to happen which means all this focus on early reporting probably wont be worth much in the end.

[Reed83HOF]

JennaLaineESPN‏Verified account @JennaLaineESPN 1h1 hour ago

JennaLaineESPN Retweeted SportsCenter

A law enforcement source told KABC-TV in Los Angeles that Martin is now being held in a mental health facility.

[Chicken Boo]

16 hours ago, KD in CA said:

Raise your hand if you were one of the many ass-hats on this board who bought in Martin's b.s. story without a second thought, threw Incognito under the bus and then declared how you'd never stand for him playing in Buffalo!

 

 

 

 

Fixed

 

So Richie DIDN'T hurl racial slurs at Martin?

 

Re-writing history, are we?

[Kmart128]

12 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

So Richie DIDN'T hurl racial slurs at Martin?

 

Re-writing history, are we?

No but it shows that Martin probably wasnt in the correct mental state to correctly understand the intent... Let's not forget that Pouncey was also involved. He is African American... I doubt he was using racial slurrs menacingly. And I'm sure the same with Richie.

 

Once Martin decided to leave the team and cry about everything then that's when things got menacing... And even then it wasnt directed towards him.

[sleeby]

He's not a danger to anyone save himself.  If he was both willing and able to shoot others he would not have put up that advert about it.  It seems to me he was on the brink of suicide and did this as a bizarre call for help; bizarre not meant as an insult so much as saying it shows he clearly has issues - perhaps substance abuse in addition to whatever else.

 

As for using prescriptions such as antidepressants for not allowing gun sales that's a poor plan that will cause people to refuse seeking help from their GP, etc.   Ie - people who maybe should be on meds not being on said meds AND buying ARs designed for killing humans.

Edited February 24, 2018 by sleeby