Rubes Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Sullivan called it "the first-ever walkoff TD in the fourth quarter of an NFL playoff game," which technically would make it ever-so-slightly-worse than Homerun Throw-Forward, which actually left 0:03 on the clock. (I didn't realize that at first, I thought I remembered the game being over, but I guess there was another kickoff. I'm either blacking it out, or I was comatose and never saw it.) The Saints loss is also worse than the Ravens loss a couple of weeks ago. Pretty similar in that Cincy got the most unlikely TD on a long throw on 4th down, but there were still 40+ seconds left for the Ravens to respond, so there was still some tension left after the TD. Some may say the Bills loss was worse because all they had to do was stop a kickoff return, but all the Saints had to do is either stop the pass from being completed, or just tackle the guy in bounds and the game would end. Both are heartbreaking, but I wonder if this one will go down at least as bad as Homerun Throw-Forward and be remembered equally for its collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 No.... this was a good play with poor defensive execution. The "homerun forward pass" was a travesty and controversial.....thus worse. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Maybe if it's the start of a 17 year playoff drought. I have a friend that is a huge Saints fan going back to the Archie Manning era who offered his perspective. One thing to remember is that the Saints were getting blown out and lucky it was only 17-0. But in his words: "It sucked, but if I could survive the "Beast Mode" run in Seattle or the Capernic Comeback in San Francisco I can survive this. It still sucked though. At least Atlanta lost too." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 No, throwback was a forward lateral, therefore shouldn't have counted. 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I don't think so. It was an awful play by the safety to duck his head down and try to take him out hard instead of just waiting for the pass to get completed and tackle him. Looked like he was bountygating him more than trying to win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 It certainly was to the Saints' fan base. That's the only comparison that matters, really. I'm surprised people want to compare and argue about the actual plays themselves. Kinda misses the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Rubes said: Sullivan called it "the first-ever walkoff TD in the fourth quarter of an NFL playoff game," which technically would make it ever-so-slightly-worse than Homerun Throw-Forward, which actually left 0:03 on the clock. (I didn't realize that at first, I thought I remembered the game being over, but I guess there was another kickoff. I'm either blacking it out, or I was comatose and never saw it.) The Saints loss is also worse than the Ravens loss a couple of weeks ago. Pretty similar in that Cincy got the most unlikely TD on a long throw on 4th down, but there were still 40+ seconds left for the Ravens to respond, so there was still some tension left after the TD. Some may say the Bills loss was worse because all they had to do was stop a kickoff return, but all the Saints had to do is either stop the pass from being completed, or just tackle the guy in bounds and the game would end. Both are heartbreaking, but I wonder if this one will go down at least as bad as Homerun Throw-Forward and be remembered equally for its collapse. No Vikings win will not be compared much to Music City Miracle,(even though they are calling it Minnesota Miracle) as it does not have any controversy. Technically the Viking game did not end on that TD pass.....they had to run one more play. The PAT. Just like an untimed down after penalty or whatever to end a game that results in the winning FG or TD. That should not be considered the last play of the game if a PAT is involved. It still could be winning play but not last play. EX: the Pats Bills "just give it to em" game. They had an untimed down with no time on clock after PI in end zone and Bledsoe threw a TD to Coates for the game winner, however, they had to run the PAT and did so for 2 pts. That was the final play. It is interesting you bring up Music City Miracle. How would it have gone down today??? hmmmm Riveron using the "perponderance of evidence policy" like he did in regular season 2017-18 should have overturned that today. Unless he returned to "100% conclusive policy" in playoffs like he did this year in playoffs, then it would have stood. coin flip Edited January 16, 2018 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Actually, it reminded me of this play..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Not as bad imo because the Vikings still had a legitimate long shot to tie the game. They were one big throw away from field goal range. It was just made all the better by Diggs scoring. The Titans only hope was a kickoff return for a touchdown. Something that is even more improbable on the final play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 If you are a saints fan yes. Maybe worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 It is equivalent to the Mets beating the Dodgers to go on and win the WS. This is huge people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark3 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 No because that type of play happens a few times a year it seems, not necessarily in that context. The forward lateral was a fluke play that was simply inexcusable and should never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 26 minutes ago, klos63 said: No, throwback was a forward lateral, therefore shouldn't have counted. I am hyper-apologetic toward officiating......I generally feel like most poor calls are toss-ups and can see the perspective where the offended team should have done better on that play or before to have avoided some hair-splitting issue. Example: "You got spotted a half yard short? Well, you do realize that 10 yards is just the MINIMUM needed for a first down, right?" For this reason you'll rarely see me outraged about officiating and it makes the game much easier to watch, quite frankly. But that play I can't excuse because you can't be expected to defend a forward pass on a kickoff. It's like allowing a player to get tackled down but then get up again and run for a TD. It's fundamentally absurd. Like making up the rules as you go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 The way I feel is that Minnesota legitimately won that game. They did it with a perfectly legal pass and catch. There was nothing about that TD that shouldn't have counted. It was a legit win. Buffalo got robbed out of a win by a play that should not have counted due to an illegal forward pass. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 39 minutes ago, Crayola64 said: No because that type of play happens a few times a year it seems, not necessarily in that context. The forward lateral was a fluke play that was simply inexcusable and should never happen. Possibly, but there has never been a walk-off TD in an NFL playoff game before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, K-9 said: It certainly was to the Saints' fan base. That's the only comparison that matters, really. I'm surprised people want to compare and argue about the actual plays themselves. Kinda misses the point. Exactly. As far as how the fan base feels, this is the best comparison. (and it was a lateral) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I would equate it as just as bad of a loss to the Music City Miracle for Saints fans. From pure elation to complete devastation. Bills players didn't stay in their lanes and I still don't know what the heck the Saints safety was doing on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Throwback was way way worse, because it was an illegal play and should have been penalized. Minny's TD was legal, just a bad play. We had a bad call or no call which makes it 10x worse. Any tv replay today would have called it back, UNLESS OF COURSE IT WAS THE PATRIOTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Yes. Felt pretty similar to the Music City ending. Total heartbreak. (and, as much as it hurts to admit, the refs got the call right on that Music City Miracle. The ball did not go forward.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) No.....for many reasons. First, it was a legal play. We got screwed on a forward lateral. Also, the Saints have won a Super Bowl fairly recently. We haven't won one and, on top of that, had we rightfully won that game, there was a good chance we could have competed for, and possibly won, the Super Bowl that year. Hard to get legitimately upset having a Championship banner hanging in the rafters, Add on to all of this that we went on to miss the Playoffs for 17 years, being screwed out of games on a regular basis along the way. What the Saints are going through is nothing. With Brees at QB, they'll be back to compete again next year. Edited January 16, 2018 by sven233 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) Throwback was a legal lateral. Go back and look. There are some thorough analyses out there. The Bills lost that day because their kick coverage was bad. If you’re still blaming the refs, you’re mistaken. Edited January 16, 2018 by Cugalabanza 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, K-9 said: It certainly was to the Saints' fan base. That's the only comparison that matters, really. I'm surprised people want to compare and argue about the actual plays themselves. Kinda misses the point. A player missing a tackle with a stupid play vs a controversial call about whether it was a forward pass or not is a big difference. The player screwed up and I'm sure more fans are just as pissed at him as the outcome. Bills fans aren't pissed off at a player for the HRTB. They are pissed about the refs decision, outcome of the game and likely the fact that Johnson was the starter for the game and not flutie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, sven233 said: No.....for many reasons. First, it was a legal play. We got screwed on a forward lateral. Also, the Saints have won a Super Bowl fairly recently. We haven't won one and, on top of that, had we rightfully won that game, there was a good chance we could have competed for, and possibly won, the Super Bowl that year. Hard to get legitimately upset having a Championship banner hanging in the rafters, Add on to all of this that we went on to miss the Playoffs for 17 years, being screwed out of games on a regular basis along the way, what the Saints are going through is nothing. With Brees at QB, they'll be back to compete again next year. Saints won't win next year either if they have to pay Brees 30 mill cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, The Wiz said: A player missing a tackle with a stupid play vs a controversial call about whether it was a forward pass or not is a big difference. The player screwed up and I'm sure more fans are just as pissed at him as the outcome. Bills fans aren't pissed off at a player for the HRTB. They are pissed about the refs decision, outcome of the game and likely the fact that Johnson was the starter for the game and not flutie. Seriously, what's the larger point you're trying to make here? Sounds like you're saying Bills fans have more of a right to be pissed off about the respective outcomes of the game; that Bills fans' level of heartbreak is somehow more legitimate given the plays that led to those outcomes. Ultimately, it doesn't matter at all how a fan's heart gets broken because the heartbreak is there, regardless. But if it helps you cope by assigning degrees of legitimacy to heartbreak, I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, K-9 said: It certainly was to the Saints' fan base. That's the only comparison that matters, really. I'm surprised people want to compare and argue about the actual plays themselves. Kinda misses the point. No offense but you are surprised people want to compare and argue something on a discussion board? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just now, Binghamton Beast said: No offense but you are surprised people want to compare and argue something on a discussion board? Not in general, no, of course not. I'm just surprised at this particular comparison and argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Rubes said: Sullivan called it "the first-ever walkoff TD in the fourth quarter of an NFL playoff game," which technically would make it ever-so-slightly-worse than Homerun Throw-Forward, which actually left 0:03 on the clock. (I didn't realize that at first, I thought I remembered the game being over, but I guess there was another kickoff. I'm either blacking it out, or I was comatose and never saw it.) The Saints loss is also worse than the Ravens loss a couple of weeks ago. Pretty similar in that Cincy got the most unlikely TD on a long throw on 4th down, but there were still 40+ seconds left for the Ravens to respond, so there was still some tension left after the TD. Some may say the Bills loss was worse because all they had to do was stop a kickoff return, but all the Saints had to do is either stop the pass from being completed, or just tackle the guy in bounds and the game would end. Both are heartbreaking, but I wonder if this one will go down at least as bad as Homerun Throw-Forward and be remembered equally for its collapse. I think the Bills game was worse. But, you can argue both. I watched both live and both times jaw dropping shocked!! The Cincy game was almost as shocking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, The Wiz said: A player missing a tackle with a stupid play vs a controversial call about whether it was a forward pass or not is a big difference. The player screwed up and I'm sure more fans are just as pissed at him as the outcome. Bills fans aren't pissed off at a player for the HRTB. They are pissed about the refs decision, outcome of the game and likely the fact that Johnson was the starter for the game and not flutie. I was more pissed our special team players didn't stay in their lane than a questionable lateral/non lateral. I think the plays and the swing of emotion are comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, K-9 said: Seriously, what's the larger point you're trying to make here? Sounds like you're saying Bills fans have more of a right to be pissed off about the respective outcomes of the game; that Bills fans' level of heartbreak is somehow more legitimate given the plays that led to those outcomes. Ultimately, it doesn't matter at all how a fan's heart gets broken because the heartbreak is there, regardless. But if it helps you cope by assigning degrees of legitimacy to heartbreak, I understand. I get the legitimacy of fan heartbreak but would you want to watch your team lose because of an incredible legit play like viks/saints and bengals/ravens or because of a possibly questionable made/missed call? Similar to how the Pats won against the steelers with the "control" call. I don't need to cope about a game that happened that long ago. I just think that the fact that it will still probably be brought up by social media/fans/talking heads/etc, shows that it being a questionable call was more important than an amazing play even though the drought is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 58 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: I would equate it as just as bad of a loss to the Music City Miracle for Saints fans. From pure elation to complete devastation. Bills players didn't stay in their lanes and I still don't know what the heck the Saints safety was doing on that play. I agree... EXCEPT... the Saints have won a Super Bowl and we hadn’t (still haven’t). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 If I was a Saints fan I'd be hating that one player for a long time. All he had to do was stay up and wait instead of diving for the legs and the Saints might be going to Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 36 minutes ago, K-9 said: Not in general, no, of course not. I'm just surprised at this particular comparison and argument. Is it really that surprising, given the situations and outcomes? 6 minutes ago, The Wiz said: I get the legitimacy of fan heartbreak but would you want to watch your team lose because of an incredible legit play like viks/saints and bengals/ravens or because of a possibly questionable made/missed call? Similar to how the Pats won against the steelers with the "control" call. I don't need to cope about a game that happened that long ago. I just think that the fact that it will still probably be brought up by social media/fans/talking heads/etc, shows that it being a questionable call was more important than an amazing play even though the drought is over. I get that people think it's worse because it was a bad call by the refs that should never have been allowed, but let's be serious: if Wycheck throws that ball a microscopic amount backwards, the outcome of the play is the same. The Bills !@#$ed up the coverage and blew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginthepast Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Both the HRTB and the Minni game end crushed their respective fan bases. The first thing I thought after I saw the Vikings TD is wow I feel for the Saints fans because I had a flood of memories of the Titans kickoff TD. That feeling of being dumbfounded and emotionally crushed in disbelief at the same time. Saints fans are probably still in a stupor questioning what they just saw. That's how I felt as I watch the Bills blow it on that kickoff return. Too bad that Steve Christie had lost his leg strength by that stage of his career and couldn't kick it threw the endzone. Then again we would have probably lost to the 99 Jags anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, The Wiz said: I get the legitimacy of fan heartbreak but would you want to watch your team lose because of an incredible legit play like viks/saints and bengals/ravens or because of a possibly questionable made/missed call? Similar to how the Pats won against the steelers with the "control" call. I don't need to cope about a game that happened that long ago. I just think that the fact that it will still probably be brought up by social media/fans/talking heads/etc, shows that it being a questionable call was more important than an amazing play even though the drought is over. When you have your playoff hopes dashed in a flash at the last second after coming from behind to take the lead; when you are so sure a victorious outcome is in the bag and it’s ripped away in such a cruel and sudden fashion, none of the particulars matter because the heartbreak is the same, regardless. I would take no solace in one set of circumstances over the other given that my heart can’t tell the difference. The Minnesota and Music City miracles both leave a mark on the vanquished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 37 minutes ago, RiotAct said: I agree... EXCEPT... the Saints have won a Super Bowl and we hadn’t (still haven’t). That's a good point. It also was the end of an era for the Bills with Bruce, Andre, and Thurman all leaving after that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Rubes said: Both are heartbreaking, but I wonder if this one will go down at least as bad as Homerun Throw-Forward and be remembered equally for its collapse. Only if the Saints don't go to the playoffs the next 17 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDogg20 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I actually took this as another good sign from the football gods. The same year we end our streak another miracle happens in the playoffs. Lets finally move on from the MCM. Our Bills are back baby and trending up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 People, I realize that is a Bills Chat Room but you all do realize that EVERYTHING in the world of sports does not revolve what happens to the Buffalo Bills....right? Heck, most of the current sports fans don't even remember the Music City Miracle, and more than half of them look it at as a play in which the Bills Special Teams simply screwed up! So, yes, I think that the Minnesota Miracle (if that's what they are calling it) is on par with the Music City Miracle. Both were plays that won a playoff game when everyone watching KNEW there was no shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Mark Vader said: Actually, it reminded me of this play..... That one was worse since the refs ignored the OPI. Cowboys were the Pats* of that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 hours ago, cba fan said: No Vikings win will not be compared much to Music City Miracle,(even though they are calling it Minnesota Miracle) as it does not have any controversy. Technically the Viking game did not end on that TD pass.....they had to run one more play. The PAT. Just like an untimed down after penalty or whatever to end a game that results in the winning FG or TD. That should not be considered the last play of the game if a PAT is involved. It still could be winning play but not last play. EX: the Pats Bills "just give it to em" game. They had an untimed down with no time on clock after PI in end zone and Bledsoe threw a TD to Coates for the game winner, however, they had to run the PAT and did so for 2 pts. That was the final play. It is interesting you bring up Music City Miracle. How would it have gone down today??? hmmmm Riveron using the "perponderance of evidence policy" like he did in regular season 2017-18 should have overturned that today. Unless he returned to "100% conclusive policy" in playoffs like he did this year in playoffs, then it would have stood. coin flip If by "game" you mean a contest between two teams.... Yes, the game ended on the TD pass. The PAT was a silly formality. By rule, there was no way possible that the Saints coudl have won on the PAT kick. Therefore, the contest was over after the Vikings scored onthe TD pass. 6 minutes ago, KD in CA said: That one was worse since the refs ignored the OPI. Cowboys were the Pats* of that era. That wasnt offensive PI Both players stopped and were going for the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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