Enough's enough - This team went 9-7......

[Wayne Arnold]

This is actually Buffalo's worst team since 2012 from an innovative statistics and intelligent analysis standpoint, finishing the 21st best team.

 

Finished 9th in 2014 and 12th in 2015. So we were actually robbed of the playoffs those seasons considering 12 teams get to go.

 

Sometimes you'd rather be lucky than good.

[Jay_Fixit]

This is easily the worst thread of 2018.

[TheBrownBear]

I sort of agree with the original poster's sentiment.  It's nice to have the streak ended just because of the embarrassment it's caused over the past decade, but this team, from a talent and potential perspective, is arguably our worst since 2013.  Just look at the point and yardage differentials.  This isn't a team on a trajectory toward greatness (or even very-goodness).  It's an old roster without much in the way of young playmakers.  Honestly, the only guy on the team that I can see being a Pro Bowl caliber player three years from now is Tre White.  I'm not all that excited or hopeful for the future.  Grab a promising first round QB and I'm sure my feelings will change.

 

Compare this with the drought-breaking 1988 squad.  It seemed clear, with our young core, that it was the beginning of something special, not just a fluke.

 

 

 

 

[teef]

6 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

This is easily the worst thread of 2018.

somewhere, baldo is hard at work, hoping to prove you wrong.

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I sort of agree with the original poster's sentiment.  It's nice to have the streak ended just because of the embarrassment it's caused over the past decade, but this team, from a talent and potential perspective, is arguably our worst since 2013.  Just look at the point and yardage differentials.  This isn't a team on a trajectory toward greatness (or even very-goodness).  It's an old roster without much in the way of young playmakers.  Honestly, the only guy on the team that I can see being a Pro Bowl caliber player three years from now is Tre White.  I'm not all that excited or hopeful for the future.  Grab a promising first round QB and I'm sure my feelings will change.

 

Compare this with the drought-breaking 1988 squad.  It seemed clear, with our young core, that it was the beginning of something special, not just a fluke.

 

 

 

 

come on.  you're acting like this is going to be the same roster for the next 2-3 years.  i think this team is even going to look wildly different next year with all of those pesky draft picks and some money to spend in FA.  

[Cripple Creek]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

I will return when Sammy signs and when a decision is made on Tyrod

 

 

Thank god it's a package deal. It's been nice...

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I sort of agree with the original poster's sentiment.  It's nice to have the streak ended just because of the embarrassment it's caused over the past decade, but this team, from a talent and potential perspective, is arguably our worst since 2013.  Just look at the point and yardage differentials.  This isn't a team on a trajectory toward greatness (or even very-goodness).  It's an old roster without much in the way of young playmakers.  Honestly, the only guy on the team that I can see being a Pro Bowl caliber player three years from now is Tre White.  I'm not all that excited or hopeful for the future.  Grab a promising first round QB and I'm sure my feelings will change.

 

Compare this with the drought-breaking 1988 squad.  It seemed clear, with our young core, that it was the beginning of something special, not just a fluke.

 

 

 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the very next year, we squeaked into the playoffs with a 9-7 record and got help when Indy lost?

Like it was a similar situation this year with the Ravens losing.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Royale with Cheese

[LABILLBACKER]

It's going to take alot more than "get off my lawn 1972" guy to bum me out. All I need to do is watch another locker room video of Kyle hugging his sons. Good luck Bills. Brady & Bill will be retiring soon. Our future is bright.

[John from Riverside]

What I do not understand is why do we have to hold the bills to a higher standard then every other NFL friggen team....

 

It does not MATTER how we got in.....we won enough games and other teams lost enough games that WE ARE IN FACT IN.

 

Should I feel bad about that?  Cuz I dont.

[The Frankish Reich]

11 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I sort of agree with the original poster's sentiment.  It's nice to have the streak ended just because of the embarrassment it's caused over the past decade, but this team, from a talent and potential perspective, is arguably our worst since 2013.  Just look at the point and yardage differentials.  This isn't a team on a trajectory toward greatness (or even very-goodness).  It's an old roster without much in the way of young playmakers.  Honestly, the only guy on the team that I can see being a Pro Bowl caliber player three years from now is Tre White.  I'm not all that excited or hopeful for the future.  Grab a promising first round QB and I'm sure my feelings will change.

 

Compare this with the drought-breaking 1988 squad.  It seemed clear, with our young core, that it was the beginning of something special, not just a fluke.

 

 

 

 

Correct. If we're talking about the future, well, there isn't all that much to be excited about in the next couple years. But somehow I thought we were talking about the present, given the title of "Enoughs enough - this team went 9-7."  Tennessee is a considerably weaker team. Jacksonville a very similar team to us.  We absolutely can win on Sunday.

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the very next year, we squeaked into the playoffs with a 9-7 record and got help when Indy lost?

Like it was a similar situation this year with the Ravens losing.

shhhh.  let people be upset.  

[Doc]

Don't feed the trolls.

[SaviorPeterman]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And yes the 18 year curse was lifted.  

 

The Bills won the tie-breakers and we're in the playoffs with the best possible first round opponent (something I predicted btw).

 

The point is (and I keep repeating) is that this is pretty much the same records as 2014-2016, so quit thinking this coaching staff & HO turned water into wine.

 

What it did do was create such low expectations that some consider it a miracle.

 

What was miraculous was winning 6 games where the opposition had the ball at the end of the game with a chance to win & the Bills winning each and every time.  

 

I am as excited as anyone that they are in the playoffs and planning my Sunday, but I am not getting ahead of myself and anointing this coaching staff as an all time great.

 

However I am a fan and don't get stuck on the minutiae wrt to drafts, schemes and philosophy.

 

It is quite simple for us fans.  If a team is 8-8 for 3 seasons in a row, you look at it and say 2 more wins and you're in the playoffs.  I look at the skill positions and how they are utilized (and yes was pissed at Watkins, the trade and not targeting him enough).  I thought better coaching and tweaks to properly utilize Taylor and we'd see a huge improvement.

 

On the defensive side, it did not take much to see that they were undisciplined, took way too many penalties, and disorganized under Rex, which could be fixed easily to the point they would be competent.

 

So as said I will be here and cheering Sunday & hopefully beyond & will leave shortly thereafter while you argue about the draft, personnel moves & free agency.

 

I will return when Sammy signs and when a decision is made on Tyrod.

 

Again would we fans be so excited if they went 8-8, or 8-7-1 (as McDermott tried vs. Indy) and no playoffs.  

 

It is the Playoffs that has created this euphoria, not a record that matches those the prior 3 years......

 

Flame away!!!!!

 

 

 

I've been as down on this team as most pessimistic fans the last 17 years, but the bottom line is they made the playoffs and it really don't matter if they got lucky and backed in so to speak.

 

To end 17 years of agony and frustration for the city of Buffalo and bills fans worldwide is not to be taken for granted even if this team gets clobbered in Jacksonville.

 

 

[MTBill]

At the end of the day - we're in the playoffs.

 

I agree with the O.P. on some counts...  Playoffs do not erase the fact that this is still a weak team that needs work - but this is not something the organization fails to realize

 

What makes me most ecstatic about the playoffs?  The fact that the drought is over.  This chip is off the shoulder and we can move on.  It will be just as hard to repeat this next season as it would have been not making the playoffs - it just won't feel like this wall of "18" seasons.  And having one less hurdle is never a bad thing.

 

Revel in the moment.  We even got a winnable playoff matchup for round 1.  Winning a playoff game would be another wall removed.

 

Not that I am trying to say this team is on the verge of anything like the past...  But back before the 'run', we had a few years of success (making the playoffs, hosting playoff games, getting to the AFC Championship) - without making the SB.  That is necessary I feel to having sustained success again.  This is one small step, accept that while realizing this is not a SB win - and we aren't showing signs of being on the cusp right now of doing that next season either.

 

Go Bills.  Beat Jacksonville.  I would LOVE another chance at the Cheatriots - with some momentum of positive energy and accomplishment.

[Stank_Nasty]

13 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

I've been as down on this team as most pessimistic fans the last 17 years, but the bottom line is they made the playoffs and it really don't matter if they got lucky and backed in so to speak.

 

To end 17 years of agony and frustration for the city of Buffalo and bills fans worldwide is not to be taken for granted even if this team gets clobbered in Jacksonville.

 

 

finishing the season 4-2 after the 3 game meltdown that took us to 5-5 with wins AT arrowhead, in OT in the snow game and then SWEEPING YOUR FINS is anything but backing into the playoffs. that's called stepping up and doing what you need to do. at the end of the day the bills did enough throughout the season and the ravens didn't. bottom line. doesn't matter if it happened the last play of the game or midseason. 

 

they got help but they most definitely did not back into the posteason. not even close.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[I'm Spartacus]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I am a fan.......  

 

But I also look at this team without rose-coloured glasses......

 

I've said it if not a FAN, this team is hard to watch.  They are hanging on for dear life almost every win and come the second half they lose almost everytime on halftime adjustments.  

 

They should have kicked Miami's butts twice, thoroughly outplayed KC too, yet hung on for dear life.  Jauron ball kills me and the inability to throw for 300 (though they seem up for the challenge the first half at times).

 

So you think this team is better the the prior 3 years?  I will say they are more disciplined and for a change getting some breaks.

 

Y^es I'm excited, but TBD and the pom pom waving does make me smirk.

 

Now I get it. You're freakin' Canadian! Enough said.

[John from Riverside]

I think reasons for future optomism is that this IS a weaker team then previous years in terms of talent but they still made the playoffs......we are about to go into a draft with several draft picks....we have free agency money to spend.......we traded away players we considered our blue chip players and STILL made the playoffs even though its not a finished product as far as McDermott's vision

 

Plenty to be excited about for the future here

[Doc]

So switch the Ravens' games against the Bengals and the Colts.  Do the Bills still back into the playoffs?

[Chuck Schick]

Look around the NFL....almost every team could be called weak if you wanted to nit-pick.   If you can't give the Bills significant credit for going 9-7 against a pretty brutal schedule with this roster then you're missing out. 

Beating KC when and where they did is a minor miracle on its own.  

[SaviorPeterman]

12 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

finishing the season 4-2 after the 3 game meltdown that took us to 5-5 with wins AT arrowhead, in OT in the snow game and then SWEEPING YOUR FINS is anything but backing into the playoffs. that's called stepping up and doing what you need to do. at the end of the day the bills did enough throughout the season and the ravens didn't. bottom line. doesn't matter if it happened the last play of the game or midseason. 

 

they got help but they most definitely did not back into the posteason. not even close.

 

We most certainly backed in. This team went 4-5 in their final 9 games including an ugly 3 game losing streak and 2 lopsided Pats losses in which the offense scored a combined 12 points.

 

Also we did not control our destiny in week 17 and was pure luck the Bengals converted a 4th and long and took it for a score against the Ravens.

 

But again, it really don't matter how we got to the playoffs. At least the drought is finally over and things finally went this team's way. And regardless what happens against the Jags this regime won't have that hanging over their heads even if they fail to get back to the playoffs next year.

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

We most certainly backed in. This team went 4-5 in their final 9 games including an ugly 3 game losing streak and 2 lopsided Pats losses in which the offense scored a combined 12 points.

 

Also we did not control our destiny in week 17 and was pure luck the Bengals converted a 4th and long and took it for a score against the Ravens.

 

But again, it really don't matter how we got to the playoffs. At least the drought is finally over and things finally went this team's way. And regardless what happens against the Jags this regime won't have that hanging over their heads even if they fail to get back to the playoffs next year.

dude. you're so far gone.... 4-2 over the last 6 weeks. you are going all the way back to freaking week 8 just to try and prove a dumb point.... they started hot. they lost 3 in a row middle of the season and then bounced back to snatch the playoffs with a late surge. that's literally nothing close to backing in. 

 

while we're on the pure luck train why don't we claim big bens last game drive to beat the ravens 4 weeks ago was also the only reason we are in. or maybe a loss they suffered back in September..... point being, if the Dalton play happens 3 weeks ago nobody is peddling that dumb narrative. look at the season as a whole. we did more than they did to get in over the course of 17 weeks. bottomline..... and finishing a season 4-2 after the benching of their qb is ANYTHING BUT BACKING IN. I don't know where you come up with this crap....

 

pretty soon your gonna be arguing next gen stats will prove somehow the fins can still sneak into the wildcard and blathering on about how good their coaching is.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Chuck Schick said:

Look around the NFL....almost every team could be called weak if you wanted to nit-pick.   If you can't give the Bills significant credit for going 9-7 against a pretty brutal schedule with this roster then you're missing out. 

Beating KC when and where they did is a minor miracle on its own.  

Correct

 

There are a select few teams that are pretty much dominating the league....and then there is the teams that are fighting and scratching to make it....then there are the teams that have no chance

 

Buffalo is no longer in the "have no chance" catagory.....the future is bright

[SaviorPeterman]

4 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

dude. you're so far gone.... 4-2 over the last 6 weeks. you are going all the way back to freaking week 8 just to try and prove a dumb point.... they started hot. they lost 3 in a row middle of the season and then bounced back to snatch the playoffs with a late surge. that's literally nothing close to backing in. 

 

while we're on the pure luck train why don't we claim big bens last game drive to beat the ravens 4 weeks ago was also the only reason we are in. or maybe a loss they suffered back in September..... point being, if the Dalton play happens 3 weeks ago nobody is peddling that dumb narrative. look at the season as a whole. we did more than they did to get in over the course of 17 weeks. bottomline..... and finishing a season 4-2 after the benching of their qb is ANYTHING BUT BACKING IN. I don't know where you come up with this crap....

 

pretty soon your gonna be arguing next gen stats will prove somehow the fins can still sneak into the wildcard and blathering on about how good their coaching is.

 

If you want to disregard the 5-2 start and ignore 3 game losing streak and use the 4-2 logic sure, but who did the 4 wins come against?

 

Miami x 2 (and both games game down to stopping them after an onside kick, including last week against Dolphins 3rd string QB).

Indy (it took a reversed 2 point conversion and overtime to beat another horrible team)

KC (quality win for sure but they were in the midst of a 4 game losing streak when we beat them)

 

Bottom line though I'm not arguing the fact we made the playoffs, it's obviously a great thing. But take away what was essentially a hail mary pass by Andy Dalton and we having a much different conversation right now. But you can't say the BIlls earned this because it was out of their hands in week 17 even with the win against the Dolphins.

[Tenhigh]

4 hours ago, Seasons1992 said:

Someone's always got to poop in the ice cream. 

 

Don't like it? I hear Mexico is the s@#% so go there.

Remind me not to come to your house for ice cream

 

[TigerJ]

It's true that the Bills' record of 9-7 is not a great deal better than their record in the last few years, tying the record achieved in Doug Marrone's second and final season.  Besides getting into the playoffs, what is different is that this came in the first season of a new coach/GM regime when they are presumably in rebuild mode.  The Bills have good situation in the upcoming off season with room under the cap and a good number of high draft picks.  There is every reason to believe they are trending upwards and will be better next season.   There is the addition feel good story of the Bills' longest tenured player finally getting in the playoffs and getting his first NFL touchdown in the process. 

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

If you want to disregard the 5-2 start and ignore 3 game losing streak and use the 4-2 logic sure, but who did the 4 wins come against?

 

Miami x 2 (and both games game down to stopping them after an onside kick, including last week against Dolphins 3rd string QB).

Indy (it took a reversed 2 point conversion and overtime to beat another horrible team)

KC (quality win for sure but they were in the midst of a 4 game losing streak when we beat them)

 

Bottom line though I'm not arguing the fact we made the playoffs, it's obviously a great thing. But take away what was essentially a hail mary pass by Andy Dalton and we having a much different conversation right now. But you can't say the BIlls earned this because it was out of their hands in week 17 even with the win against the Dolphins.

they 100% earned it. don't be absurd. they did enough this season. ravens didn't. they earned it. ravens didn't. 

 

and you have a lot of nerve downplaying the fins games after the way you've spouted off in favor of them all year. make up your mind..... after all.... you're rarely wrong about these things! LOLOLOOL

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

they 100% earned it. don't be absurd. they did enough this season. ravens didn't. they earned it. ravens didn't. 

 

and you have a lot of nerve downplaying the fins games after the way you've spouted off in favor of them all year. make up your mind..... after all.... you're rarely wrong about these things! LOLOLOOL

it's the biggest d-bags posters all season that are trying their hardest to save face somehow.  you're talking to a guy that claimed miami was a force to be reckoned with.  the guy has zero idea what he is talking about.  he's spread his nonsense over two boards, and has been called out by many a poster.  it's not even worth it.

[klos63]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I am a fan.......  

 

But I also look at this team without rose-coloured glasses......

 

I've said it if not a FAN, this team is hard to watch.  They are hanging on for dear life almost every win and come the second half they lose almost everytime on halftime adjustments.  

 

They should have kicked Miami's butts twice, thoroughly outplayed KC too, yet hung on for dear life.  Jauron ball kills me and the inability to throw for 300 (though they seem up for the challenge the first half at times).

 

So you think this team is better the the prior 3 years?  I will say they are more disciplined and for a change getting some breaks.

 

Y^es I'm excited, but TBD and the pom pom waving does make me smirk.

Sometimes it's ok just to enjoy a win without analyzing it too much, that's the coaches job. It's football, it's supposed to be fun. We're in the playoffs and i'm thrilled.

[Domdab99]

I mean, in a way, he's right...the Bills are not a good team. But they still made the playoffs with a first year HC and a roster most thought was in tank mode. 

 

Imagine what this staff will do with an above average talent roster!

 

Sounds like we're headed in the right direction, to me. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Correct. If we're talking about the future, well, there isn't all that much to be excited about in the next couple years. But somehow I thought we were talking about the present, given the title of "Enoughs enough - this team went 9-7."  Tennessee is a considerably weaker team. Jacksonville a very similar team to us.  We absolutely can win on Sunday.

And that is what I have said too over & over.

 

What I disagree with is the coaching.  I think McDermott has been lousy in game, the second halves often difficult to watch, Tyrod hasn't been helped, Shady has been tackled more for losses then any RB in the NFL, because teams know the call and some decisions have been out and out wrong.

 

I however certainly think they can beat Jacksonville Sunday, just still want to see more from the coach and front office.

[klos63]

1 minute ago, Domdab99 said:

I mean, in a way, he's right...the Bills are not a good team. But they still made the playoffs with a first year HC and a roster most thought was in tank mode. 

 

Imagine what this staff will do with an above average talent roster!

 

Sounds like we're headed in the right direction, to me. 

but we're good enough to make the tournament and that's the first step to winning a super bowl. I think we have a legitimate chance to win Sunday, we may be better than you think.

[Royale with Cheese]

17 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

If you want to disregard the 5-2 start and ignore 3 game losing streak and use the 4-2 logic sure, but who did the 4 wins come against?

 

Miami x 2 (and both games game down to stopping them after an onside kick, including last week against Dolphins 3rd string QB).

Indy (it took a reversed 2 point conversion and overtime to beat another horrible team)

KC (quality win for sure but they were in the midst of a 4 game losing streak when we beat them)

 

Bottom line though I'm not arguing the fact we made the playoffs, it's obviously a great thing. But take away what was essentially a hail mary pass by Andy Dalton and we having a much different conversation right now. But you can't say the BIlls earned this because it was out of their hands in week 17 even with the win against the Dolphins.

 

Hey Savior...remember saying this?

Well, we beat the team that you said was a lock for the playoffs.  So why does it matter if it took both games to stopping them after on onside kick?

SaviorPeterman

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Posted November 5, 2017

I still think Miami is a lock for a WC will finish 2nd to the Pats in the division which means they'll likely get the #5 seed.

 

So essentially the Bills will be competing with a handful of other teams for the final spot, likely the Jets, Raiders, Chargers and Titans/Jags. This is of course assuming the season don't go completely off the rails in the next few week and still think that's very probably given the upcoming schedule against teams on a whole other level compared to the Jets that easily beat this team.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Royale with Cheese

[Misterbluesky]

I feel like this is back to yesterday and most of us are viewing the turnover thread...the team is in the playoffs..deal with it.

[Manther]

2 hours ago, John from Hemet said:

 

Well played

[H2o]

This team showed great heart, won the close games versus how we lost them in previous years, never gave up, and Cincy gifted us the fruits of our labor. They play for each other and leave it all out on the field every week. Kyle deserves this, the city of Buffalo deserves this, and us fans deserve this. Enjoy the moment. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by H2o

[teef]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And that is what I have said too over & over.

 

What I disagree with is the coaching.  I think McDermott has been lousy in game, the second halves often difficult to watch, Tyrod hasn't been helped, Shady has been tackled more for losses then any RB in the NFL, because teams know the call and some decisions have been out and out wrong.

 

I however certainly think they can beat Jacksonville Sunday, just still want to see more from the coach and front office.

but the coaching has been good enough to get the bills into the playoffs without a talented roster.  as others have mentioned,  with a good qb and the pieces in place, they can hopefully field a playoff regular team.  has the coaching been perfect?  not at all, but it's not as awful as some are trying to make it out to be.  by some i mean you.

[nedboy7]

Don’t you people work? 

[What a Tuel]

24 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

Bottom line though I'm not arguing the fact we made the playoffs, it's obviously a great thing. But take away what was essentially a hail mary pass by Andy Dalton and we having a much different conversation right now. But you can't say the BIlls earned this because it was out of their hands in week 17 even with the win against the Dolphins.

 

No. That is your perception because that is what it boiled down to. 

 

The fact is our record vs the Ravens and the corresponding calculations  that got us into the playoffs were a result of the ENTIRE season. Not just the perceived "hail mary" at the end because that's what you last remember.

[Misterbluesky]

3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Don’t you people work? 

Some of them just B word and complain.

[simool]

Only the south end of a north bound horse would start a thread like this.

 

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And yes the 18 year curse was lifted... blah... blah... blah...

Flame away!!!!!

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by simool

[GunnerBill]

59 minutes ago, Doc said:

So switch the Ravens' games against the Bengals and the Colts.  Do the Bills still back into the playoffs?

 

And the Ravens nearly lost that game against the Colts.

 

Say they tackle Tyler Boyd at the 10 on Sunday after that catch and with 3 shots (they'd have had to use one down to clock it) the Bengals fail to score a touchdown.  In that scenario the Ravens would have made the play offs by hanging on by their finger nails, at home, inside their 10 yard line consecutive weeks against teams whose final records would have been 10-22.  That sounds like it would have been "backing in" to the playoffs to me. 

 

NEWSFLASH - most wildcard teams "back in" to some degree.  But wildcard teams have gone the distance before.   I don't expect this Bills team to go the distance but to try and discredit their getting there because they were a wildcard at 9-7 is ridiculous in my opinion.  And the fact that we are not a great team and made it.... I can only see that as a positive.  This leadership has some kudos it has a plan and I'm very hopeful that as the roster improves so will our chances of making some noise in the post-season over the next few years.  And schedule wise.... we played the best division in football and the AFC West this year.  Next year we get the AFC South (maybe with a healthy Luck and Watson admittedly but let's see) and the NFC North (with a Vikings team that is bound to regress to the mean a bit, Detroit and Chicago rebuilding and the Packers at a crossroads). Then we will play the Ravens and Chargers in our other in conference games.  It's not an easy looking schedule but I fancy the match ups on it a little better than the gauntlet of Quarterbacks we played this year. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by GunnerBill