This Roster Will Take 2-3 Years To Fix

[Franchiseneedsme]

2 hours ago, yungmack said:

If you were an elite FA (and why would the Bills want anything but elite?), would you sign with this mess?

I dont want elite FA's anymore. I want a ton of guys like Poyer and Hyde. Good players with manageable deals. Give me 3 starters from the draft, 3 FA starters, and 3 FA depth players, and ill be happy 

[BADOLBILZ]

43 minutes ago, Rico said:

Almost. Charles Clay is still here, and so is Shaq.

 

 

What about Vladimir Ducasse and Jordan Mills and Andre Holmes and Brian DiMarco and Shareeeeeece Wright?

[Rico]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What about Vladimir Ducasse and Jordan Mills and Andre Holmes and Brian DiMarco and Shareeeeeece Wright?

Out of these transitional scrubs, only Mills.

 

Preston Brown and Adolphus Washington are definitely other Whaley gems, so McBeane still has more purging to do.

[JM2009]

3 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

This is what has me the most concerned of all honestly. Does our fan base, media and owner have the patience?

Fan base doesn't. And they shouldn't have to.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Rico said:

Out of these transitional scrubs, only Mills.

 

Preston Brown and Adolphus Washington are definitely other Whaley gems, so McBeane still has more purging to do.

 

 

Jordan Mills was a free agent that McD chose to re-sign..........so........nope......but nice try.  

 

All McD garbage............good thing he jumped on Ducasse and DiMarco early in free agency.

 

And as for being transitional scrubs........they were signed to be starters so gotta' call your bulls*t there.

Edited November 21, 2017 by BADOLBILZ

[JM2009]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

The Bills roster is a mess. 

We have one impact player on the whole roster in Lesean McCoy and I'm not joking when I say our second best player is our kicker. 

 

Aside from that, we're below average across the depth chart. 

 

QB - below average

RB - no depth

WR - no elite talent

TE - no elite talent

OL - below average

DL - below average 

LB - below average 

CB - below average

S - below average

 

The Bills are lucky they have so many draft picks because they seriously need to find some impact players. 

This is depressing.

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

The Bills roster is a mess. 

We have one impact player on the whole roster in Lesean McCoy and I'm not joking when I say our second best player is our kicker.

 

Our best player was a punter for awhile...

[QCity]

6 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

The Bills are lucky they have so many draft picks because they seriously need to find some impact players. 

 

Luck has nothing to do with the draft picks they've accumulated.

[Ol Dirty B]

7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'm not so sure. We have a bunch of high picks. We could sign 3-4 solid players in free agency. And if we get rid of a couple more of our stars for sixth rounders, those picks could really pan out. 

 

Uh? What stars? They have one and that's Lesean and you'll never get value for him at his age and position.

[reddogblitz]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What about Vladimir Ducasse and Jordan Mills and Andre Holmes and Brian DiMarco and Shareeeeeece Wright?

 

 

O'Leary

[DriveFor1Outta5]

The frightening part is the lack of young talent. Our premier young talent on defense is Lawson and Washington. Both of whom look to have the potential to be busts. 

[jrober38]

14 hours ago, SoTier said:

Yeah but look at it from a business model POV.  Which is more likely to generate more revenue?  A QB drafted in the Top 5 or a DT, MLB, and C?

 

Only a fraction of the Bills' revenue comes from ticket sales. 

 

Assuming a QB will put more people in the stands, when they already sell out most games, is a poor assumption. 

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Only a fraction of the Bills' revenue comes from ticket sales. 

 

Assuming a QB will put more people in the stands, when they already sell out most games, is a poor assumption. 

 

Two points.   IIRC, the Bills get virtually all of the profits from parking and concessions which are totally dependent upon actual game attendance. 

 

The second point, barring some kind of drastic measures or a miracle, the chances of this team playing competitve football much less actually winning any more games, seem dim at best.  Season ticket sales were down this season.  They could plummet next season if the Bills don't do something to give fans hope that things will be better.  Drafting sensibly ain't gonna do it, especially if McDermott and Beane remain.  Making a "bold move" to trade up in the draft to grab a big name QB could, and it's entirely plausible if you consider the haphazard way the Bills have managed personnel issues on the team for at least a decade. 

 

[SoTier]

21 hours ago, McBean said:

 

 

That's why you give Beane and McDermott 5 years minimum.

 

Turnover the past decade hasn't helped matters either.

 

   Why should they be rewarded for !@#$ing up and turning a modestly talented team in a virtual expansion franchise?  The Bills had some young talent to build on, so it wouldn't have taken them five years to add enough pieces to make the playoffs and then shoot higher.  Now, it will take  two or three years just to replace the talent these two asshats jettisoned ... and that's assuming the Bills would have somebody better than McDermott and Beane because the player evaluation skills they've demonstrated so far suck ... and seem to lean heavily on Carolina rejects.  

 

19 hours ago, JM2009 said:

Fan base doesn't. And they shouldn't have to.

 

    The Bills fans have been remarkably patient with the Bills as they've continued to support the team despite the Bills only posting 2 winning seasons in the last 17 years, but they may be reaching the end of the road.  If the team continues to play as poorly as it has the last three weeks and heads don't roll, only drafting a QB in the Top Five may bring the fans back in 2018.

[thunderingsquid]

Are we just removing the suck from the Whaley years or something?

 

This does not sound easy or simple as that. 

 

BUT what we HAVE done is draft well. 

 

Tre White is a special talent when our front 7 are performing. 

 

Zay is coming along fine, just think of what he would be capable of if someone could throw to him in stride.

 

Dawkins could be good if he finds his place and Milano is a special LB. 

 

Our FA moves have been pretty awful, hopefully that can come with time. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Keep Peterman  (backup)

Shady, Benjamin, Cadet, Zay, OLeary, Thomas, Dawkins, Groy, Miller, maybe Wood. The rest of the oline you can release, trade or cut for all I care. Cut all FB's

Keep Hauscka cut Schmidt 

Keep Lawson, Hughes, maybe Washington, Kyle retires.

Cut all LB'S except Milano

Keep Hyde, Poyer & White, maybe Johnson . Cut Wright & Gaines

I can see 25 players gone in the off season. If this is an expansion team then treat it like one.

[KD in CA]

23 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

This is what has me the most concerned of all honestly. Does our fan base, media and owner have the patience?

 

I think we know the answer to the first two, but kicking screaming is what those groups do for fun.

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Our best player was a punter for awhile...

 

And people here were actually proud of it.  

23 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

This thread could have been any one of the last 15 years. We are always 2-3 years away....

 

Problem is we always seem to give up on the 3 year plan after year 2.....and start all over again.

[H2o]

On 11/20/2017 at 6:30 PM, ndirish1978 said:

I originally put this in another thread, then, because I am a special snowflake I erased the post and decided my 5 minutes of effort was worthy of it's own thread. This team will be devoid of talent for a while. All those picks we have now are going to get packaged to try and get the 2nd pick of the draft. As a result, if we land 3 starters in next year's draft I would be shocked. We have a tremendous need of at least 10 new players just to field a non-trash roster. Be prepared to start next season looking at the roster and saying "who is that starter?"

 

Positions that will have to be addressed this offseason are in red.

 

Offense - we have FIVE positions of extreme need with one decent player likely being replaced by someone on the roster.

 

QB -Tyrod - GONE

RB - Shady - Over 30 and has no backup

WR - Kelvin Benjamin - 1 more year on contract

WR - Jordan Matthews - Injured and would need to be re-signed or replaced 

WR - Zay Jones - Here for the foreseeable future

TE - Charles Clay - perennially injured. Back ups are not great. Needs to be replaced

T - Cordy Glenn - Can't find the field because of injury - Big cap number - Might be supplanted by Dawkins

G - Richie Incognito - 34 yrs old

C - Eric Wood - 31 - signed an extension this offseason

G - Vlad the Turnstile - Please get him off my team. Miller is equally bad. 

T - Jordan Mills - See Vlad above

 

Defense - Ideally we would replace the whole D-Line. Realistically - we're stuck with at least 2 of them. That leaves us with FIVE immediate needs on D. 

 

DE - Shaq Lawson - He's not going anywhere next year

DT - Adolphus Washington - Should be a rotational player, but will start here next year.

DT - Kyle Williams - Will retire

DE - Jerry Hughes - Poor production, can't survive being the only pass rushing threat. Should be moved, but will stay because who else do we have- unless we manage to trade him.

OLB - Lorenzo Alexander - Nice guy, shouldn't be starting

MLB - Preston Brown - Nope

OLB - Ramon Humber - Average, needs to be replaced. Matt Milano should be depth, not a starter

CB - Tre White - So far this is the first player on the team I'm happy about

CB - EJ Gaines/Shareece Wright - Gaines can't stay healthy and Wright is not amazing

S - Jordan Poyer - Starter

S - Micah Hyde - Starter

As pissed off as I am about some things and just malcontent with others, I am still holding out from passing full judgement until I see how they handle the offseason. I want to see the moves with who is already here, I want to see who we get in FA, and I want to see how they use their draft picks.

[unclepete]

McDermott will not last 3 years at this pace. There have been too many bad decisions. He needs to finish this year strong because I doubt the Pegulas like looking like a joke 

[Billzgobowlin]

Get your franchise QB and fill holes through the draft and FA with smart picks.  All of this will be solved with consistency and quality at QB.  Having said that we need to develop a cohesive O line.  

[BuffaloRush]

On 11/20/2017 at 6:30 PM, ndirish1978 said:

I originally put this in another thread, then, because I am a special snowflake I erased the post and decided my 5 minutes of effort was worthy of it's own thread. This team will be devoid of talent for a while. All those picks we have now are going to get packaged to try and get the 2nd pick of the draft. As a result, if we land 3 starters in next year's draft I would be shocked. We have a tremendous need of at least 10 new players just to field a non-trash roster. Be prepared to start next season looking at the roster and saying "who is that starter?"

 

Positions that will have to be addressed this offseason are in red.

 

Offense - we have FIVE positions of extreme need with one decent player likely being replaced by someone on the roster.

 

QB -Tyrod - GONE

RB - Shady - Over 30 and has no backup

WR - Kelvin Benjamin - 1 more year on contract

WR - Jordan Matthews - Injured and would need to be re-signed or replaced 

WR - Zay Jones - Here for the foreseeable future

TE - Charles Clay - perennially injured. Back ups are not great. Needs to be replaced

T - Cordy Glenn - Can't find the field because of injury - Big cap number - Might be supplanted by Dawkins

G - Richie Incognito - 34 yrs old

C - Eric Wood - 31 - signed an extension this offseason

G - Vlad the Turnstile - Please get him off my team. Miller is equally bad. 

T - Jordan Mills - See Vlad above

 

Defense - Ideally we would replace the whole D-Line. Realistically - we're stuck with at least 2 of them. That leaves us with FIVE immediate needs on D. 

 

DE - Shaq Lawson - He's not going anywhere next year

DT - Adolphus Washington - Should be a rotational player, but will start here next year.

DT - Kyle Williams - Will retire

DE - Jerry Hughes - Poor production, can't survive being the only pass rushing threat. Should be moved, but will stay because who else do we have- unless we manage to trade him.

OLB - Lorenzo Alexander - Nice guy, shouldn't be starting

MLB - Preston Brown - Nope

OLB - Ramon Humber - Average, needs to be replaced. Matt Milano should be depth, not a starter

CB - Tre White - So far this is the first player on the team I'm happy about

CB - EJ Gaines/Shareece Wright - Gaines can't stay healthy and Wright is not amazing

S - Jordan Poyer - Starter

S - Micah Hyde - Starter

I'm with you on a lot of these players.  The one I'll disagree with is Gaines.  If he can somehow manage to stay healthy, I think he's a capable starter.  The bigger problem is a lack of overall depth on this team.  McDermott and Beane need to find good players fast

[Klaista2k]

Every single year through the drought we've always been "2 to 3 years away".

 

Not once has it ever worked out. 

[Gugny]

On 11/20/2017 at 6:48 PM, Kelly the Dog said:

I'm not so sure. We have a bunch of high picks. We could sign 3-4 solid players in free agency. And if we get rid of a couple more of our stars for sixth rounders, those picks could really pan out. 

 

I agree.  But I think "the process" is to go from the oldest team in the NFL to the youngest and let them develop together.  That's my hope, anyway.  Once Beane and McD were hired, I convinced myself that 2019 was the year for this team to be a contender.  And I'm totally cool with that.

[Nick the Greek]

Gloom? DOOM!!

[Fadingpain]

2 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Get your franchise QB and fill holes through the draft and FA with smart picks.  All of this will be solved with consistency and quality at QB.  Having said that we need to develop a cohesive O line.  

I agree with this plan.

 

Without the right QB, the rest doesn't matter.

 

With the right QB, the rest still doesn't matter.  

Just get the right QB.

 

 

 

 

[BrooklynBills]

On 11/20/2017 at 6:45 PM, Buffalo716 said:

 Shady is not OVER 30

 

he is 29 and a fresh 29 who doesn't take too many big hits

He will be traded after this year. The only reason it didn't happen this season is because the cap ramifications were too high.

 

This team is re-building and that includes resetting and fixing the cap issues.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, BrooklynBills said:

He will be traded after this year. The only reason it didn't happen this season is because the cap ramifications were too high.

 

This team is re-building and that includes resetting and fixing the cap issues.

But good thing we have Tolbert behind him so no worries. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, BrooklynBills said:

He will be traded after this year. The only reason it didn't happen this season is because the cap ramifications were too high.

 

This team is re-building and that includes resetting and fixing the cap issues.

 

Getting rid of another all pro is pointless .

 

especially one that will be going to Canton one day. Shady is our team at this point. He catches the ball at a high rate and is obviously phenomenal running 

 

creating more holes is pointless. Especially because shady has bought in to the process

[Sweats]

On 20/11/2017 at 7:07 PM, yungmack said:

If you were an elite FA (and why would the Bills want anything but elite?), would you sign with this mess?

 

 

 

 

Thats exactly what ive been saying all along.

 

Aint no player in their right mind is coming anywhere near this trainwreck until its fixed and even then we'll be overpaying.

 

Such a shame.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 One great DT and solid back up will restore the defense.

 

A QB and Guard, the offense.

 

QB Kirk Cousins

OG Quenton Nelson

 

DT Vita Vea

DT Greg Gaines

 

Pick best player available with the other picks and we are back in business.

 

[QCity]

15 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

Thats exactly what ive been saying all along.

 

Aint no player in their right mind is coming anywhere near this trainwreck until its fixed and even then we'll be overpaying.

 

Such a shame.

 

If you think we're going to be building a team through FA, you haven't been paying attention.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 11/20/2017 at 6:51 PM, Bangarang said:

Plenty of time for us to spend the next few years signing and drafting guys for this regime’s schemes only to hire new coaches that will want to run something entirely different.

 

I will lose it if that happens, we need to stick with McD.

[Sweats]

2 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

If you think we're going to be building a team through FA, you haven't been paying attention.

 

 

 

 

If you think were building a team solely through the draft, then you havent been paying attention to our many needs and limited draft picks.

 

We will be forced to address some needs through FA.

[QCity]

37 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

We will be forced to address some needs through FA.

 

To quote Doug Marrone - "Obviously."

[Thurman#1]

On 11/21/2017 at 8:30 AM, ndirish1978 said:

I originally put this in another thread, then, because I am a special snowflake I erased the post and decided my 5 minutes of effort was worthy of it's own thread. This team will be devoid of talent for a while. All those picks we have now are going to get packaged to try and get the 2nd pick of the draft. As a result, if we land 3 starters in next year's draft I would be shocked. We have a tremendous need of at least 10 new players just to field a non-trash roster. Be prepared to start next season looking at the roster and saying "who is that starter?"

 

Positions that will have to be addressed this offseason are in red.

 

Offense - we have FIVE positions of extreme need with one decent player likely being replaced by someone on the roster.

 

QB -Tyrod - GONE

RB - Shady - Over 30 and has no backup

WR - Kelvin Benjamin - 1 more year on contract

WR - Jordan Matthews - Injured and would need to be re-signed or replaced 

WR - Zay Jones - Here for the foreseeable future

TE - Charles Clay - perennially injured. Back ups are not great. Needs to be replaced

T - Cordy Glenn - Can't find the field because of injury - Big cap number - Might be supplanted by Dawkins

G - Richie Incognito - 34 yrs old

C - Eric Wood - 31 - signed an extension this offseason

G - Vlad the Turnstile - Please get him off my team. Miller is equally bad. 

T - Jordan Mills - See Vlad above

 

Defense - Ideally we would replace the whole D-Line. Realistically - we're stuck with at least 2 of them. That leaves us with FIVE immediate needs on D. 

 

DE - Shaq Lawson - He's not going anywhere next year

DT - Adolphus Washington - Should be a rotational player, but will start here next year.

DT - Kyle Williams - Will retire

DE - Jerry Hughes - Poor production, can't survive being the only pass rushing threat. Should be moved, but will stay because who else do we have- unless we manage to trade him.

OLB - Lorenzo Alexander - Nice guy, shouldn't be starting

MLB - Preston Brown - Nope

OLB - Ramon Humber - Average, needs to be replaced. Matt Milano should be depth, not a starter

CB - Tre White - So far this is the first player on the team I'm happy about

CB - EJ Gaines/Shareece Wright - Gaines can't stay healthy and Wright is not amazing

S - Jordan Poyer - Starter

S - Micah Hyde - Starter

 

 

 

Overall a fine post, but I do have some disagreements.

 

I don't think they have much of a chance to move up to #2. As it stands, the first two teams in the draft are likely to have extreme needs at QB. If we move up, it will likely be to grab the #3 or #4 QB. My guess is that they will have some of that extra draft capital left over even assuming they go QB in the first.

 

I think you're undervaluing Ducasse. Joe B has ranked him pretty decently in his play by play film analysis. Had him ranked as the best Bill on the field last week. I'm not thrilled with him but the need there isn't as bad as it is at RT and LB and CB.

 

I'm also not as down on Cordy Glenn as you are. He was on the field a lot early in his career. His injury has kept him off the field lately but it seems to be one injury that's taking a lot of time rather than that he's injury-prone by nature. I'm still very hopeful that he could be in our future plans which would leave Dawkins available to maybe fill a hole elsewhere if he proves capable of doing so. 

 

Yeah, it'll all need time. And yeah there are a lot of weaknesses on this roster. But IMHO the draft will be better than you're predicting and being in the second year of our systems will help more than most people think.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

Thats exactly what ive been saying all along.

 

Aint no player in their right mind is coming anywhere near this trainwreck until its fixed and even then we'll be overpaying.

 

Such a shame.

 

 

 

Yeah, like no free agents joined the 1-15 total rebuild-driven Browns after last year. Oh, wait, they did.

 

Sure, the Bills won't get any of the high-demand guys but they've made it pretty clear that's not how they'll use free agency anyway. They're from the build the majority of the team through the draft and fill in the gaps with low- and medium-priced free agents school. Which is really the way that the best teams in the NFL year after year, the Pittsburghs, the New Englands, the Green Bays, the Atlantas and yeah the Carolinas treat free agency.

 

For all but the top few guys free agents mostly don't get a ton of money and they end up making decisions mostly around the contract offers.

[Bangarang]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I will lose it if that happens, we need to stick with McD.

 

Not if this team doesn’t get better.

[papazoid]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 6:30 PM, ndirish1978 said:

I originally put this in another thread, then, because I am a special snowflake I erased the post and decided my 5 minutes of effort was worthy of it's own thread. This team will be devoid of talent for a while. All those picks we have now are going to get packaged to try and get the 2nd pick of the draft. As a result, if we land 3 starters in next year's draft I would be shocked. We have a tremendous need of at least 10 new players just to field a non-trash roster. Be prepared to start next season looking at the roster and saying "who is that starter?"

 

Positions that will have to be addressed this offseason are in red.

 

Offense - we have FIVE positions of extreme need with one decent player likely being replaced by someone on the roster.

 

QB -Tyrod - GONE

RB - Shady - Over 30 and has no backup

WR - Kelvin Benjamin - 1 more year on contract

WR - Jordan Matthews - Injured and would need to be re-signed or replaced 

WR - Zay Jones - Here for the foreseeable future

TE - Charles Clay - perennially injured. Back ups are not great. Needs to be replaced

T - Cordy Glenn - Can't find the field because of injury - Big cap number - Might be supplanted by Dawkins

G - Richie Incognito - 34 yrs old

C - Eric Wood - 31 - signed an extension this offseason

G - Vlad the Turnstile - Please get him off my team. Miller is equally bad. 

T - Jordan Mills - See Vlad above

 

Defense - Ideally we would replace the whole D-Line. Realistically - we're stuck with at least 2 of them. That leaves us with FIVE immediate needs on D. 

 

DE - Shaq Lawson - He's not going anywhere next year

DT - Adolphus Washington - Should be a rotational player, but will start here next year.

DT - Kyle Williams - Will retire

DE - Jerry Hughes - Poor production, can't survive being the only pass rushing threat. Should be moved, but will stay because who else do we have- unless we manage to trade him.

OLB - Lorenzo Alexander - Nice guy, shouldn't be starting

MLB - Preston Brown - Nope

OLB - Ramon Humber - Average, needs to be replaced. Matt Milano should be depth, not a starter

CB - Tre White - So far this is the first player on the team I'm happy about

CB - EJ Gaines/Shareece Wright - Gaines can't stay healthy and Wright is not amazing

S - Jordan Poyer - Starter

S - Micah Hyde - Starter

 

BOOM !! 

 

you nailed it

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Not if this team doesn’t get better.

 

This year won't get better but we will get a lot of the guys we need next year. They wanted to win this year but they had to get rid of guys who didn't buy in or fit. We did well with the "talent" we have but once the league figured us out we just don't have the horses to do it.

[wppete]

We have a lot of hold to fill with QB #1 priority.