3rdand12 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Get a room. we have one reserved here at Hotel TBD issues Arnold ? the one thing I do like about them to your credit and what you're saying is his footwork. He seldom is in the wrong place with his footwork and balance it's just he doesn't have what it takes to be quick enough to get there. he relies upon his strength and his ability to effectively b an anchor If he can do that, and he looks headed that way, i will be pleased. Not much for the picked #. Just want a starter who can hold his own. His ceiling is truly yet to be defined though. I see what most of us do maybe, but a bullrush and good foot and hand work could earn him respect . I am sure he will improve. What do you think of his instincts and discipline though ? General question for all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 Your hypocrisy is stunning, and I think you need to review your recent postings before making the claim that you rely on real evidence for your views. You post good stuff every now and again, but your will to tear other posters down (using words like clueless, or to suggest that others get a clue, or that your views are somehow intellectually superior to those who have different takes than you), or to post animated gifs as barbs, or to have the audacity to claim that others are treating you badly -- are all evidence that you're just another dude, just like the rest of us, who posts on a message board. Unlike BADOL I've actually provided real statistics and videos to support my statements in this thread. And I couldn't possibly care less what you think. I don't remember a single post from the poster 'NeckBeard'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Unlike BADOL I've actually provided real statistics and videos to support my statements in this thread. And I couldn't possibly care less what you think. I don't remember a single post from the poster 'NeckBeard'. Ha ha you think a single snap constitutes as evidence to make any kind of conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 Ha ha you think a single snap constitutes as evidence to make any kind of conclusion? Conclusions? This thread was never about providing conclusions about Shaq Lawson. But to answer your question - yes, 1 is greater than 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Unlike BADOL I've actually provided real statistics and videos to support my statements in this thread. And I couldn't possibly care less what you think. I don't remember a single post from the poster 'NeckBeard'. Lawson did have a nice rush, great push on contact and nice bend as you mentioned. Interesting it was from against a LT though. I give him points for that play for sure. we can all expect Lawson to continue to improve, and the Kelsey comparison is questionable. Love Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Perhaps more debate worthy is what kind of production would the Bills need from Shaq to honor the 5th year option. Does a solid edge setter get that kind of money in today's NFL? He wasn't picked by McBeane so there is no blame to be placed for the selection. I'm more interested in seeing how/if they can turn him into a player worth keeping. He seems to have a better attitude that most the other guys that have been sent packing or soon will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 #1 highest run stop percentage among edge defenders in Week 1 How long into the season before people stop sleeping on this guy? He was an exceptional run defender in college, not surprising... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Perhaps more debate worthy is what kind of production would the Bills need from Shaq to honor the 5th year option. Does a solid edge setter get that kind of money in today's NFL? He wasn't picked by McBeane so there is no blame to be placed for the selection. I'm more interested in seeing how/if they can turn him into a player worth keeping. He seems to have a better attitude that most the other guys that have been sent packing or soon will be. It will be more worthy of debate, when we get to his 3rd year or so. Let's take what we can get for now. He ain't no A. Maybin granted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Perhaps more debate worthy is what kind of production would the Bills need from Shaq to honor the 5th year option. Does a solid edge setter get that kind of money in today's NFL? He wasn't picked by McBeane so there is no blame to be placed for the selection. I'm more interested in seeing how/if they can turn him into a player worth keeping. He seems to have a better attitude that most the other guys that have been sent packing or soon will be. Yeah that's an important point.......your first round picks should be for the kind of talents you can't find or can't afford in FA. Those are your $15M+ players........your cornerstones. IMO you shouldn't use an early round pick on a player that you wouldn't pay market value to if they reach their ceiling. Been too many of those over the past 17 years. I thought they had kinda' turned the corner on this problem but Shaq and Ragnuts were a step back in the name of trying to patch hole with guys who had low ceilings but appeared to be ready to contribute right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Yeah that's an important point.......your first round picks should be for the kind of talents you can't find or can't afford in FA. Those are your $15M+ players........your cornerstones. IMO you shouldn't use an early round pick on a player that you wouldn't pay market value to if they reach their ceiling. Been too many of those over the past 17 years. I thought they had kinda' turned the corner on this problem but Shaq and Ragnuts were a step back in the name of trying to patch hole with guys who had low ceilings but appeared to be ready to contribute right away. So if he is a 10 sack player by the end of the season while still providing excellent run support does your opinion change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 So if he is a 10 sack player by the end of the season while still providing excellent run support does your opinion change? I'd bet it depends how impactful his actual pass rush is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 So if he is a 10 sack player by the end of the season while still providing excellent run support does your opinion change? If he is a 10 sack player 2 of the next 3 seasons they will pick up the 5th year option. So then Badol's view would change because he is saying your 1st round picks sbould be guys you are willing to pay when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 If he is a 10 sack player 2 of the next 3 seasons they will pick up the 5th year option. So then Badol's view would change because he is saying your 1st round picks sbould be guys you are willing to pay when the time comes.The NFL is constantly changing. I don't think this is always the case anymore. When teams are able to find starters deeper in the draft , a team can forgo overpaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 It was the Jets.. now Carolina was playing the other worst team in the NFL so no one knows who is going to win. Don't forget Carolina was 6-10 last year to our 7-9. This is a toss up game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Lawsons been a terror this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpoolkev Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Can't really give Whaley any credit. Lawson was by far the highest rated player on the board when we picked. He only fell that far due to the shoulder. that's why I commend Whaley he knew all he had to do is get the shoulder repaired for the long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 If he is a 10 sack player 2 of the next 3 seasons they will pick up the 5th year option. So then Badol's view would change because he is saying your 1st round picks sbould be guys you are willing to pay when the time comes. How is that a changed view? That's the original view. You use your first round picks on high impact players in the passing game. The fact that they didn't do that with the Shaq selection makes it more likely that he will not be retained Shaq was his normal self today.......no pass rush.......looked good on a couple plays where he was totally unblocked though. Lot of excellent performances by Bills DL in the pass rush game but none were Shaq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Shaq was his normal self today.......no pass rush.......looked good on a couple plays where he was totally unblocked though. Lot of excellent performances by Bills DL in the pass rush game but none were Shaq. This statement is false, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 How is that a changed view? That's the original view. You use your first round picks on high impact players in the passing game. The fact that they didn't do that with the Shaq selection makes it more likely that he will not be retained Shaq was his normal self today.......no pass rush.......looked good on a couple plays where he was totally unblocked though. Lot of excellent performances by Bills DL in the pass rush game but none were Shaq. what game were you watching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do The Reich Thing Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Shaq and Jerry were absolute animals yesterday!! So impressed with the both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Another game where Shaq was dominant as a run stuffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Shaq is an animal! He balled out again this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfansinceday1 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This statement is false, of course. It was completely false. Badol seems to have quite a busy Fall agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 If Shaq ends up being a top rated end against the rush and a 6-8 sack guy a year, then he absolutely would be worth attempting to re-sign at a well paid contract level, not elite but in the top 10-20% range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) How is that a changed view? That's the original view. You use your first round picks on high impact players in the passing game. The fact that they didn't do that with the Shaq selection makes it more likely that he will not be retained Shaq was his normal self today.......no pass rush.......looked good on a couple plays where he was totally unblocked though. Lot of excellent performances by Bills DL in the pass rush game but none were Shaq. He was asking what would change your view. Maybe I didn't represent it well.... but if Shaq performs at a level where the Bills are obviously going to pick up the 5th year and try to re-sign him then you will accept it was a good use of a 1st. That was the point I was making. I thought he played a really good game yesterday. If Shaq is getting a couple of hurries a game, a sack every other game and is a top quality run defender he will be absolutely worth the #19 pick. Edited September 18, 2017 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) what game were you watching? The one where a nobody named Eddie Yarborough(apparently a LB per Rich Gannon ) had a helluva game rushing the passer. Shaq wasn't bad but his performance was well down the list by the DL.......even at DT he just doesn't use his arms well enough to even beat guards in pass pro. His issues remain the same..........but can he get horizontal on a run play from the backside when he's entirely unblocked? Yes, and he did that. Nice play. He played OK but the spin on the defense in general is entirely different if Cam isn't missing easy throws most of the day.........and perhaps then we are more critical of the difference between his pass rush and that of others who were clearly better. Edited September 18, 2017 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 The one where a nobody named Eddie Yarborough(apparently a LB per Rich Gannon ) had a helluva game rushing the passer. Shaq wasn't bad but his performance was well down the list by the DL.......even at DT he just doesn't use his arms well enough to even beat guards in pass pro. His issues remain the same..........but can he get horizontal on a run play from the backside when he's entirely unblocked? Yes, and he did that. Nice play. He played OK but the spin on the defense in general is entirely different if Cam isn't missing easy throws most of the day.........and perhaps then we are more critical of the difference between his pass rush and that of others who were clearly better. Hughes had the best day but Lawson put as much pressure on Cam as anyone. A sack, forced a hold penalty, several hurries. Yarbrough looked good but his role is to only play on passing downs, so he has a lot of energy to simply go at the quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Hughes had the best day but Lawson put as much pressure on Cam as anyone. A sack, forced a hold penalty, several hurries. Yarbrough looked good but his role is to only play on passing downs, so he has a lot of energy to simply go at the quarterback. Shaq's sack was a cleanup one, if I'm not mistaken, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 just another ignored dude. Edited for accuracy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 @SalSports Shaq Lawson had a nerve contusion in the game. Still getting evaluated, but "has made a lot of progress from yesterday" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Shaq's sack was a cleanup one, if I'm not mistaken, right? Shaq was double teamed on the play (as he was for much of the day) and Brown blitzed up the middle, causing Newton to step up and attempt to scramble up the middle but Shaq had the hole plugged and took him down by the ankles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The one where a nobody named Eddie Yarborough(apparently a LB per Rich Gannon ) had a helluva game rushing the passer. Shaq wasn't bad but his performance was well down the list by the DL.......even at DT he just doesn't use his arms well enough to even beat guards in pass pro. His issues remain the same..........but can he get horizontal on a run play from the backside when he's entirely unblocked? Yes, and he did that. Nice play. He played OK but the spin on the defense in general is entirely different if Cam isn't missing easy throws most of the day.........and perhaps then we are more critical of the difference between his pass rush and that of others who were clearly better. Bado Love you but you tend to do this....you get into a stance and wont come off it. Eddie Y. was quite the find as a DL by the bills.....hope they keep that kid around long term. Just because other DL played well yesterday doesnt mean that Shaq was not a beast. He was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Bado Love you but you tend to do this....you get into a stance and wont come off it. Eddie Y. was quite the find as a DL by the bills.....hope they keep that kid around long term. Just because other DL played well yesterday doesnt mean that Shaq was not a beast. He was. Heard his name a few times on rushing stops, he put some pressure on the QB. I don't know how you can say he didn't have a good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Shaq's sack was a cleanup one, if I'm not mistaken, right? I didnt know that pressures and sacks had to be catagorized (thanks for the link yesterday by the way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The one where a nobody named Eddie Yarborough(apparently a LB per Rich Gannon ) had a helluva game rushing the passer. Shaq wasn't bad but his performance was well down the list by the DL.......even at DT he just doesn't use his arms well enough to even beat guards in pass pro. His issues remain the same..........but can he get horizontal on a run play from the backside when he's entirely unblocked? Yes, and he did that. Nice play. He played OK but the spin on the defense in general is entirely different if Cam isn't missing easy throws most of the day.........and perhaps then we are more critical of the difference between his pass rush and that of others who were clearly better. Are you aware that you won't be condemned to hell if you admit the possibility that you might be wrong on your premature evaluation of the player under your jaundiced scrutiny? Trust me, you are strong enough to recover from your mistaken rushed opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 @MatthewFairburn Leslie Frazier credited Shaq Lawson for helping the Bills shut down the Panthers' running game. Say Shaq's strength is run defense. @JaySkurski Frazier on Shaq Lawson: "He had a really good game yesterday for us." Said his run defense is a strength now and the pass rush is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Poor Ed Dickson - Shaq stacked the holy expletive out of him on one play. Violent edge setter. Best game as a pro for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 @MatthewFairburn Leslie Frazier credited Shaq Lawson for helping the Bills shut down the Panthers' running game. Say Shaq's strength is run defense. @JaySkurski Frazier on Shaq Lawson: "He had a really good game yesterday for us." Said his run defense is a strength now and the pass rush is coming. So the DC makes a point to say that run defense is his strength and pass rush "is coming".........and I am supposed to praise his pass rush? People do realize that "it's coming" means that it's not there yet, right? Poor Ed Dickson - Shaq stacked the holy expletive out of him on one play. Violent edge setter. Best game as a pro for him. Agreed on highlighted but did he even have a QB pressure yesterday? I can't remember one..........and that's saying something because Newton was under a non-stop assault. On the sack Shaq got.......he was the ONLY GUY THAT WAS BLOCKED......it was a vulture sack. Let's be clear folks.......I never said Shaq sucked but he's yet to be anything noteworthy as a pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) I didnt know that pressures and sacks had to be catagorized (thanks for the link yesterday by the way) I think there's a clear difference between getting a clean up sack because a QB is trying to avoid the other pass-rushers getting pressure versus getting the pressure yourself. Don't you? Edited September 19, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 So the DC makes a point to say that run defense is his strength and pass rush "is coming".........and I am supposed to praise his pass rush? People do realize that "it's coming" means that it's not there yet, right? Agreed on highlighted but did he even have a QB pressure yesterday? I can't remember one..........and that's saying something because Newton was under a non-stop assault. On the sack Shaq got.......he was the ONLY GUY THAT WAS BLOCKED......it was a vulture sack. Let's be clear folks.......I never said Shaq sucked but he's yet to be anything noteworthy as a pass rusher. You've made it well known...repeatedly, that he's a bum that was drafted for his pass rushing prowess and hasn't done jack in his career to this point( 3 starts,lol) and its been pointed out...repeatedly, that he was drafted as a run stuffing DE who hussles and gets clean up sacks. That sounds EXACTLY what his coaches think of him. Solid run defender/edge setter, 6-8 sacks a year,until he picks up the finer nuances of the game and can increase his sack totals=worthy of the #19 overall draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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