Blokestradamus Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 20 sacks in 3 years at Clemson. He was a role player behind Vic Beasley for the first two seasons. One-year starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 He was noticeably good against the run on Sunday; I'd like to see him get more opportunities to rush the passer in the upcoming weeks. I feel like a lot of teams will go to the quick passing game because of our line. We may not see the stats we want, but if we can continue to force teams to be one dimensional: stop the run, terrorize the QB on 7 step drops.... I consider that a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I feel like a lot of teams will go to the quick passing game because of our line. We may not see the stats we want, but if we can continue to force teams to be one dimensional: stop the run, terrorize the QB on 7 step drops.... I consider that a win. Possibly, but my problem was more that McCown did, in fact, have time when he chose to hold the ball longer. Now, that could certainly change...I'd like to think that this front 4 can generate pressure somewhat reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I just don't see explosion from Shaq. Strength and energy, but not explosion. I guess it just isn't very productive to view him under the lens of his draft position at this point. He seems like he can be a valuable piece of the defense, but not an elite player. His ceiling is probably Shaun Ellis, not Melvin Ingram or Terrell Suggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 He was a role player behind Vic Beasley for the first two seasons. One-year starter. I understand. Doesn't make his skill set any different...IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I just don't see explosion from Shaq. Strength and energy, but not explosion. I guess it just isn't very productive to view him under the lens of his draft position at this point. He seems like he can be a valuable piece of the defense, but not an elite player. His ceiling is probably Shaun Ellis, not Melvin Ingram or Terrell Suggs. This is realistically still his first season of games against pros... let him figure it out as he learns a new D... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 and I see sex and a lot of pressure coming from our insides this week I didn't think this was a home game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I just don't see explosion from Shaq. Strength and energy, but not explosion. I guess it just isn't very productive to view him under the lens of his draft position at this point. He seems like he can be a valuable piece of the defense, but not an elite player. His ceiling is probably Shaun Ellis, not Melvin Ingram or Terrell Suggs.he is going to be like Chris Kelsey. This defenselive line right now reminds me of the 09-14 Cincinnati team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I just don't see explosion from Shaq. Strength and energy, but not explosion. I guess it just isn't very productive to view him under the lens of his draft position at this point. He seems like he can be a valuable piece of the defense, but not an elite player. His ceiling is probably Shaun Ellis, not Melvin Ingram or Terrell Suggs. You accurately described who he is as a player. He is not explosive, and never was, even in college. He is a well rounded DE who is adept at playing both the run and putting decent pressure on the qb. He is a solid DE who will never be a great pass rusher. I'll gladly embrace what he is as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) Said it before, but 4-3 DE's don't get drafted in round 1 for their run defense. It's a passing league. Anyone who says he wasn't hyped as a pass rusher is probably trying to re-set the bar a little lower for better feels about his slow start. Well that bar was set when he was coming out of Clemson. No one envisioned him being a big time sack artist. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252 Yet, no one really had him with a grade lower than late first, maybe early second at worst case scenario. I'm more inclined to take NFL evaluators and those alike than fans. Edited September 13, 2017 by BillsFan17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 Ability/skill. I didn't check to compare their 40 times. Think I made the point pretty clear about different skill levels. Shaq has some clear deficiencies as a pass rusher........the first and most debilitating to his pass rush game is a terrible first step. I'm not saying he could never have a 10 sack season...........but those are A LOT harder to string together than most people seem to understand here...........and what YOU are proposing.......that he could put up healthy Justin Houston numbers.......a guy who once had over 20 sacks.........that's a REAL reach. All you had to say was "slow first step / poor reflexes." And having the ability to determine that from a player after one NFL game is quite impressive. Hopefully you get paid well for this talent. Having a pleasant or non-combative conversation with you is like pulling teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 You accurately described who he is as a player. He is not explosive, and never was, even in college. He is a well rounded DE who is adept at playing both the run and putting decent pressure on the qb. He is a solid DE who will never be a great pass rusher. I'll gladly embrace what he is as a player. If Lawson never becomes a freak as a pass rusher.....but was always a well rounded player during his career that didnt give up huge run plays and got pressures....he is worth the pick. We have seen players drafted for their "freak pass rushing" bust in the first round. I think people get too wrapped up in comparing him to the young in his prime Mario Williams....that player was drafted number 1 overall and considered one of the best pass rushing DE's in the league at one point....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 All you had to say was "slow first step / poor reflexes." And having the ability to determine that from a player after one NFL game is quite impressive. Hopefully you get paid well for this talent. Having a pleasant or non-combative conversation with you is like pulling teeth. To be fair to Badol - and I disagree with him on Shaq - he has felt this way since before we drafted him based on his college performances. We have an agreed metric of 8 sacks per year as a gauge for whether he was worth the 19th pick or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) You accurately described who he is as a player. He is not explosive, and never was, even in college. He is a well rounded DE who is adept at playing both the run and putting decent pressure on the qb. He is a solid DE who will never be a great pass rusher. I'll gladly embrace what he is as a player. He led college football in tackles for loss in 2015 and was second in the nation in sacks. Edited September 13, 2017 by Wayne Arnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 If Lawson never becomes a freak as a pass rusher.....but was always a well rounded player during his career that didnt give up huge run plays and got pressures....he is worth the pick. We have seen players drafted for their "freak pass rushing" bust in the first round. I think people get too wrapped up in comparing him to the young in his prime Mario Williams....that player was drafted number 1 overall and considered one of the best pass rushing DE's in the league at one point....... This is all right John. But Shaq needs to be an effective pass rusher even if not a freak one. If he bounces around the 6-12 sacks a year averaging out around 8 or 9 a year over the remainder of his contract he was worth the pick. If 6 sacks a year is the high water mark then it wasn't the wisest use of a 1st round pick even if he is a beast in the run game and racks up the TFLs. That is just the modern NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 This is all right John. But Shaq needs to be an effective pass rusher even if not a freak one. If he bounces around the 6-12 sacks a year averaging out around 8 or 9 a year over the remainder of his contract he was worth the pick. If 6 sacks a year is the high water mark then it wasn't the wisest use of a 1st round pick even if he is a beast in the run game and racks up the TFLs. That is just the modern NFL. Gunner....I think we have to give him the season before we start worrying about this He looked great in camp.....I really didnt think he palyed that badly in game 1....this essentially is his rookie season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Gunner....I think we have to give him the season before we start worrying about this He looked great in camp.....I really didnt think he palyed that badly in game 1....this essentially is his rookie season I agree with you. I am a huge Shaq fan. But I do think we have to get pass rush numbers to say "good first round pick". You might end up saying "good player for us but better guys went around him that year" otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Gunner....I think we have to give him the season before we start worrying about this He looked great in camp.....I really didnt think he palyed that badly in game 1....this essentially is his rookie season You were one of the guys hopeful that after his surgery he would be more of an impact player. He still looks the part of a sluggish, powerful DE who will depend upon the rest of comrades to get the QB. Hughes is good but not good enough to produce with the amount of attention he is getting. If you are playing Shaq at one end you better have Watt or Miller on the other side. He could improve but he won't ever bend around a tackle. 5-6 sacks is about where he should end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 You were one of the guys hopeful that after his surgery he would be more of an impact player. He still looks the part of a sluggish, powerful DE who will depend upon the rest of comrades to get the QB. Hughes is good but not good enough to produce with the amount of attention he is getting. If you are playing Shaq at one end you better have Watt or Miller on the other side. He could improve but he won't ever bend around a tackle. 5-6 sacks is about where he should end up. Its......one.....game I agree with you. I am a huge Shaq fan. But I do think we have to get pass rush numbers to say "good first round pick". You might end up saying "good player for us but better guys went around him that year" otherwise. In all honesty Im not worried about this right now....sacks come in bunches for these guys and by the end of the season I think he will have a respectable total.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFan Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) Great find Wayne. Thanks for the post! I think this is fitting in with the expectation that he would do well in this 4-3 D. Edited September 13, 2017 by CanadianFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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