metzelaars_lives Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 How long did it take you to come up with this load of trash. Brady is great by any metric ever devised by the most ardent haters. Remember it may be established on this board but it is still on the internet. And if you follow this line of thinking then Kelly must be one of the worst Quarterbacks to ever play the game. Sad and pathetic. Wow. I didn't realize just how good I was at satire. Dude, for the hundredth time, I was kidding. Actually more than that, I was trying to make a point how ridiculous the 'Montana's 4-0 > Brady's 4-2' crowd sounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly McButterpants Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 As much as it sticks in my throat, 11 conference championship games and 7 super bowls make Brady the GOAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomper Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Brady is amazing. Deal with it. I think they'll win by 6. It'll make for a fun moment when Goodell has to hand them the trophy. Assuming Kraft isn't hammered again and doesn't fall off the stage lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I will NEVER understand how going 4-0 is better than going 4-2. I mean the guy is less great because he made the big game two MORE times than Montana or Bradshaw! Also in theb2 losses he had gotten the lead for the team with around 2 minutes to go. I don't know what else a QB can do in those spots... he can't play D! Also Kelly >>>>>>>> McNair and he lost 4 straight SB! The crazy notion that losing a SB makes you less of a great player is just astronomically dumb in my opinion. IMO I hate comparing different eras against eachother as rules, and leagues change. Brady IMO (biased as it is) is the greatest QB in the modern era followed by P. Manning. I think P Manning is LIGHTYEARS Better than his little Bro even though he is 2-1 and Eli is 2-0. I agree completely. If he goes 5-6 in Super Bowls he's still better than the rest. The more super bowl appearances the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) nice Edited January 23, 2017 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) I agree completely. If he goes 5-6 in Super Bowls he's still better than the rest. The more super bowl appearances the betterYes. This is the point. In fact, in terms of measuring playoff success/greatness (NO, SUPER BOWLS ARE NOT ALL THAT MATTERS, DAN MARINO IS CERTAINLY ONE OF THE ALL TIME BESTS), I would say Super Bowl wins are worth five points and Super Bowl losses are worth two points. So four conference championships with no Super Bowl wins (Jim Kelly) trumps one Super Bowl win in only one Super Bowl appearance (Drew Brees) for instance. Edited January 23, 2017 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) As much as it sticks in my throat, 11 conference championship games and 7 super bowls make Brady the GOAT. Â I kind of disagree. Brady isn't the GOAT because his team wins games which requires defense, special teams, etc. Â He's the GOAT because of what he does with the football, year after year. Edited January 23, 2017 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Brady is the #1 QB of all time and it's no longer even close. Â Other all-time greats have bad games. Their teams lose a 35-20 game here and there where it's just not their day. Â Brady and the Pats lose 1-2 games a year, and when they do it comes right down to the wire. I don't think they've lost by more than 1 score in a couple years with Brady playing. Â That's why he is the GOAT to me. The idea of them losing is almost unthinkable. The idea that they could lose in a game that isn't close seems almost impossible. Â Even Montana would have some clunkers when they lost. Â They lost to the Phins by 10 to end the season last year. Then lost to KC by 27 the year before, as well as the Phins again by 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Anyone who thinks that 4-0 in SBs is more impressive than 4-2 needs their head examined. Getting the SB is freaking hard and impressive in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Here's how I look at Super Bowls... Â Imagine a track guy. He qualifies for the Olympics every time. Over the course of his career, he picks up a couple golds, a couple silvers and a bronze. He won 2 of 5 possible Olympic golds. Another guy wins gold, doesn't qualify the next Olympics, wins gold the next Olympics, then fails to qualify again. So he competed in the Olympic twice and won gold both times. He's 2 of 2. So he's better? Nonsense. Â Jim Kelly didn't get selected into the HOF because he's .000 in the Super Bowl. He was selected because he won 'silver' four years in a row and because of what he did with the football in every game he played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Wow. I didn't realize just how good I was at satire. Dude, for the hundredth time, I was kidding. Actually more than that, I was trying to make a point how ridiculous the 'Montana's 4-0 > Brady's 4-2' crowd sounded. Just saw this. My apologies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Anyone who thinks that 4-0 in SBs is more impressive than 4-2 needs their head examined. Getting the SB is freaking hard and impressive in and of itself. Especially from Bills fans, who rightly I might add, always point to Kelly and Co going to four straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 BB has done it without brady, but brady has never done it without BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 No one would like to Brady fail worse then me, but give him credit, he is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 The boston globe tweeted yesterday that BB was the greatest coach ever. Luke russert retweeted and stated that Barry Bonds was the greatest hitter since Ted Williams, but his obituary cannot be written without the word "cheater" in it. I'm paraphrasing the tweet since I cannot access Twitter at work... Â With that said, yes, Tom Brady is a great QB, but you cannot write his obituary without mentioning cheating. Â Seems fair enough to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Right now, I put Brady with Montana as the 2 greatest QB's I have seen since I really started watching football in OJ's rookie year. They are both far above the rest to me. After Brady most likely gets his 5th ring in 2 weeks, he will surpass Joe. I think he finally calls it a day after 6 rings, leaving absolutely no doubt he is the GOAT. Much apologies to Otto Graham, but he was too far before my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Â Â BB has done it without brady, but brady has never done it without BB So, do you think he might want to get traded to the Bills to prove a point? He's old, maybe a 7th rounder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) His legacy is this no matter what happens in the Superbowl.  He is the BEST QB in the Modern Era for football and likely the BEST of all times, because he did it in the Salary Cap Era, not the can keep a elite franchise together NON Salary Cap Era Montana played in. I can't stand Brady or the Patriots. That said, I don't even say the following grudgingly anymore: he is the greatest quarterback of all time.  Unfortunately, I have nothing else to say about him.  Edit: I do have something more to say, because I just want to be clear and not mislead anyone.  Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, John Elway, Peyton Manning, Drew Bree's, Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, and the rest can't carry his jock strap. You know it, I know it, and everybody knows it, even if we don't want to admit it.  ...because I am not really interested in, nor do I even remotely think, there is a call for debate on the matter. Edited January 24, 2017 by dollars 2 donuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 No matter what he has done, he is the benefactor of a cheating culture. Â I give him no credit at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 So, do you think he might want to get traded to the Bills to prove a point? He's old, maybe a 7th rounder? Â I'd say part of what makes Brady great is that he recognizes he should stay put. Â An interesting question is if Brady could do it without Ernie Adams. I don't think he has anywhere near the career he has without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 It's the Bill and Ernie show! Wonder how else they have skirted the rules that we know nothing about? I'd put nothing past them, but Brady is Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Â I'd say part of what makes Brady great is that he recognizes he should stay put. Â An interesting question is if Brady could do it without Ernie Adams. I don't think he has anywhere near the career he has without him. Â Â It's the Bill and Ernie show! Wonder how else they have skirted the rules that we know nothing about? I'd put nothing past them, but Brady is Brady. Â Â What do you estimate was Ernie Adams's greatest contribution to the humiliation of Tomlin and the Steelers yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 What do you estimate was Ernie Adams's greatest contribution to the humiliation of Tomlin and the Steelers yesterday? The power of Ernie - we will never know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 The power of Ernie - we will never know! Â It's whatever you need it to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrivefourfive Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 John Elway. Some think he's the greatest. I don't, but some do. 2-3 in the big game. Brady is considered the greatest of all time now, and I'd be shocked if his legacy takes a hit with a loss. He's going to put up numbers in this game. Just ask Vegas. Â In my opinion the greatest of all-time is Montana, but his memory is fading. I like 4-0 over 4-2 also, along with zero interceptions in SBs. I always go back to the Jack Morris argument: Who would you trust with your life on the line? I'd pick the guy who threw a 10 inning shutout in the 7th game of the World Series. I'd take Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleChewy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Brady is consistently great, but all of his SB games were down to the wire. Montana was a master when the competition was the toughest. He was at his best in all the SB games. His QB rating supports this. Brady's average SB rating is 95 and Montana is 127. To be the best you have to dominate the best and that's exactly what Montana did. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but this is the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 https://youtu.be/dgi2lY62Hto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 He's just one player for a team that preaches doing your job. Once he can no longer stay healthy, or consistently hit open receivers in an offense that throws more balls in under 2 seconds he will be discarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Dude I was joking. Ha well u got me then...touche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 IMO I hate comparing different eras against eachother as rules, and leagues change. Brady IMO (biased as it is) is the greatest QB in the modern era followed by P. Manning. I think P Manning is LIGHTYEARS Better than his little Bro even though he is 2-1 and Eli is 2-0. Â Just a correction on Peyton... he is 2-2. Losses to the Saints with Indy and Seahawks with Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Â Just a correction on Peyton... he is 2-2. Losses to the Saints with Indy and Seahawks with Denver. I had forgotten that Seahawks SB.. god that was a stinker of stinkers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJ's Glove Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Brady is consistently great, but all of his SB games were down to the wire. Montana was a master when the competition was the toughest. He was at his best in all the SB games. His QB rating supports this. Brady's average SB rating is 95 and Montana is 127. To be the best you have to dominate the best and that's exactly what Montana did. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but this is the way I see it. Â This is a little deceiving for a couple of reasons. First, two of Montana's four wins were "down to the wire" close games against Cincinnati. Two were blowouts, but Montana's excellence also happened in the middle of a 13-in-a-row NFC dominance of the Super Bowl. During that time, there were people arguing that the NFC Championship game was the "real Super Bowl", because that's where the two best teams in the League played each other. There were just too many times where the AFC puked on themselves in the big game. So I take the actual Super Bowl game stats from that period (like never throwing an interception) with a grain of salt. There's much better balance between the conferences in this period. Â And 4-2 is better than 4-0. Bills fans - of all people - should remember that a conference title is an accomplishment. They give you a trophy for it and everything. Anyone who argues this is basically penalizing Brady for taking his team further into the playoffs before losing than Montana did, and giving Montana extra credit for getting bounced in the NFC playoffs every year the 49ers didn't win it all. I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) John Elway. Some think he's the greatest. I don't, but some do. 2-3 in the big game. Brady is considered the greatest of all time now, and I'd be shocked if his legacy takes a hit with a loss. He's going to put up numbers in this game. Just ask Vegas. Â In my opinion the greatest of all-time is Montana, but his memory is fading. I like 4-0 over 4-2 also, along with zero interceptions in SBs. I always go back to the Jack Morris argument: Who would you trust with your life on the line? I'd pick the guy who threw a 10 inning shutout in the 7th game of the World Series. I'd take Montana. Why is going to 4 superbowls more impressive then going to 7? Yes brady has 2 losses and maybe will be 3. But going to 7 superbowls is way more impressive than going to 4, especially in a salary cap league Edited January 25, 2017 by billsfan11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Why is going to 4 superbowls more impressive then going to 7? Yes brady has 2 losses and maybe will be 3. But going to 7 superbowls is way more impressive than going to 4, especially in a salary cap league And also add Brady had given the team the lead in those two losses with around 2 minutes to go. So he was def clutch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 And also add Brady had given the team the lead in those two losses with around 2 minutes to go. So he was def clutch! I hate to agree with you cause I don't like brady or the pats but you are correct lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Brady will - and should - go down as the greatest QB to ever play the game. Â Anyone who disagrees simply hates him. Â He is the best, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Brady is consistently great, but all of his SB games were down to the wire. Montana was a master when the competition was the toughest. He was at his best in all the SB games. His QB rating supports this. Brady's average SB rating is 95 and Montana is 127. To be the best you have to dominate the best and that's exactly what Montana did. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but this is the way I see it. Â My point of view is more like this. Who would you want to quarterback your team if you could have that QB in their prime? Â I think you could make good arguments for a few others but I think I'd have to take Brady. He excels against a variety of schemes. He excels under pressure. He excels no matter who's at wideout. He can get the ball to any part of the field with accuracy. And he continually drives himself to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Brady will play for the next ten years, win many more games and championships, and easily go down as the greatest of all-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I will NEVER understand how going 4-0 is better than going 4-2. I mean the guy is less great because he made the big game two MORE times than Montana or Bradshaw! Also in theb2 losses he had gotten the lead for the team with around 2 minutes to go. I don't know what else a QB can do in those spots... he can't play D! Â Also Kelly >>>>>>>> McNair and he lost 4 straight SB! The crazy notion that losing a SB makes you less of a great player is just astronomically dumb in my opinion. Â IMO I hate comparing different eras against eachother as rules, and leagues change. Brady IMO (biased as it is) is the greatest QB in the modern era followed by P. Manning. I think P Manning is LIGHTYEARS Better than his little Bro even though he is 2-1 and Eli is 2-0. Â Agree 100% with your first two paragraphs. Â Devil's Advocate question re: the third paragraph: could Brady have led four separate head coaches to four Super Bowl appearances like Manning did? Â From a ring perspective, Brady has had a massive advantage over Peyton simply because of who Brady's one single head coach has been as opposed to the handful that Peyton played under. Not saying Brady didn't have a huge responsibility for the Patriots Machine. But... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I agree with metz. Its kinda like with Jack Nicholson. He has the most second place Major finishes in golf history at 19, which is almost double the next man up on the list who has 10. So often the bridesmaid, he is widely considered a choke case and a loser despite his incredible successes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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