EJ Manuel

[thebandit27]

You think we will trade ej Manuel to the Vikings?

And go with a rookie 4th round pick with a total of 8 college starts as the backup?

[Bill from NYC]

You think we will trade ej Manuel to the Vikings?

No. Although they traded down to get EJ, Whaley clearly leans toward trading away draft picks and of course over-paying players. That said, trading EJ could certainly get us back the 2018 pick that Whaley just gave away and who knows, maybe even another 7th rounder, or a mediocre at best ex-Jet. Edited August 31, 2016 by Bill from NYC

[dave mcbride]

A couple notes before I get started:

- I know I'm late to the convo

- I like EJ as our backup

- I'm not trying to dispute Hopeful's post, just adding additional context to the first and last paragraphs.

 

 

EJ Manuel Tyrod Taylor

16 Games Started 14 Games Started

19 Passing TD's 20 Passing TD's

4 Rushing TD's 4 Rushing TD's

1.44 TD's per Game 1.71 TD's per Game

15 INT's 6 INT's

4 Fumbles Lost 1 Fumble Lost

1.19 Turnovers per Game 0.5 Turnovers per Game

1.21 TD/Turnover Ratio 3.43 TD/Turnover Ratio

~211 Passing Yards per Game ~217 Passing Yards per Game

7 Games under 30 Attempts (5-2 record) 9 Games under 30 Attempts (8-1 record)

9 Games 30+ Attempts (1-8 record) 5 Games 30+ Attempts (0-5 record)

Overall Record: 6-10 Overall Record: 8-6

0 300+ Passing Yard Games 0 300+ Passing Yard Games

0 3+ Passing TD Games* 4 3+ Passing TD Games

 

*EJ did have a 3 TD game against Jax in 2013 if you count his rushing TD

 

I think the TD/Turnover ratio and the 3+ Passing TD games are why you feel the way you do in your last statement.

 

EDIT: Added YPG to the list.

Need to add rushing yds and rushing yds per game; ypa (way better stat than ypg); completion pct.; and qbr.

[thebandit27]

No. Although they traded down to get EJ, Whaley clearly leans toward trading away draft picks and of course over-paying players. That said, trading EJ could certainly get us back the 2018 pick that Whaley just gave away and who knows, maybe even another 7th rounder, or a mediocre at best ex-Jet.

 

I'm sure you've thought this through, so I have to ask...

 

- What draft pick has Whaley shied away from trading? He moved Alonso and they picked him the same draft as EJ.

- Who have they overpaid?

- Why worry about a conditional 2018 pick that may not even get traded if McCray doesn't make the final 53?

[Big Gun]

And go with a rookie 4th round pick with a total of 8 college starts as the backup?

and who has in 8 college starts, started and won more national championships than EJ, and already looks the 4th year vets equal with all this lack of experience.

When a 4th round, 8 college game start guy in his first NFL training camp looks as good as a 4th year 1st rounder, it's time for the team to cut bait and move on from their mistake.

[thebandit27]

and who has in 8 college starts, started and won more national championships than EJ, and already looks the 4th year vets equal with all this lack of experience.

When a 4th round, 8 college game start guy in his first NFL training camp looks as good as a 4th year 1st rounder, it's time for the team to cut bait and move on from their mistake.

 

Um, what?

 

EJ - 39/70 (55.7%), 381 yds, 2 TDs and 1 INT against 2nd stringers

Cardale - 17/33 (51.5%), 245 yds, 1 TD and 1 INT against 3rd stringers

 

That you think they look close to the same is laughable, but not nearly as laughable as believing that a guy with 8 college starts and zero preseason experience running Greg Roman's offense with the 1's (let alone regular season experience) is ready to assume the backup role.

 

Just no.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Need to add rushing yds and rushing yds per game; ypa (way better stat than ypg); completion pct.; and qbr.

OK

 

 

EJ Manuel Tyrod Taylor

16 Games Started 14 Games Started

19 Passing TD's 20 Passing TD's

4 Rushing TD's 4 Rushing TD's

1.44 TD's per Game 1.71 TD's per Game

15 INT's 6 INT's

4 Fumbles Lost 1 Fumble Lost

1.19 Turnovers per Game 0.5 Turnovers per Game

1.21 TD/Turnover Ratio 3.43 TD/Turnover Ratio

~211 Passing Yards per Game ~217 Passing Yards per Game

6.47 Yards per Attempt 7.99 Yards per Attempt

59.12% Completion Rate 63.68% Completion Rate

298 Rushing Yards (18.6 per Game) 568 Rushing Yards (40.6 per Game)

78.5 QB Rating 99.4 QB Rating

7 Games under 30 Attempts (5-2 record) 9 Games under 30 Attempts (8-1 record)

9 Games 30+ Attempts (1-8 record) 5 Games 30+ Attempts (0-5 record)

Overall Record: 6-10 Overall Record: 8-6

0 300+ Passing Yard Games 0 300+ Passing Yard Games

0 3+ Passing TD Games* 4 3+ Passing TD Games

 

*EJ did have a 3 TD game against Jax in 2013 if you count his rushing TD

[ALF]

I like EJ as a back up QB until someone better is there and the price is right.

 

Cardale needs at least 2 seasons to develop.

[PromoTheRobot]

yes that JJ was one lucky sob to be where he was too lol

 

just my simple opinion.

you can tell I still wish him well. the road is long and winding. ya never know.

btw 91 thanks for the notice.

He was lucky he caught the ball.

[Nanker]

Prior to the snap, Chandler shifts over to the right side - overloading it. Seantrell is set to block the linebacker 50. Fred takes off to the right flat and Mike Williams runs a short curl pattern.

#50 drops into coverage on Chandler. The CB has Williams covered. Fred's racing to the flat - ignoring Watt.

Seantrell is wondering WTF? EJ sees Watt coming and is winding up to toss the ball to Fred (or Williams for the first down).

 

Seantrell is about to say "Look OUT!" but he's slow to unravel his Toreador cape and just watches knowing a train wreck is about to happen.

EJ lofts the ball at Fred probably thinking he can't get it to Williams because the freight train DPOY is bearing down on him.

Seantrell manages to turn almost 30 degrees toward Watt, who's about two yards behind him already.

Watt times his leap perfectly, plays volleyball with himself and is off the the races.

 

Whoever called this play and did not account for Watt's presence on the field bears a lot of responsibility for the outcome.

My point is, there's a lot more blame to go around than simply saying EJ sucks. Should he have taken the sack? Probably.

Could he have thrown the ball away? Sure, but it would have been a penalty for IG.

Could he have made the pass to Williams near the first down marker? Perhaps, but by the time EJ had to throw the ball, Williams wasn't there and Watt seems to be in that passing lane.

 

A great play by Watt. A terrible toss by EJ. A worse blocking scheme would be hard to imagine.

 

That's my opinion and you're entitled to it.

[DC Greg]

And go with a rookie 4th round pick with a total of 8 college starts as the backup?

 

After Jacksonville last year, don't think it could be much worse. EJ's NFL experience isn't a plus. It has only exposed his serious deficiencies to NFL defenses and coaches and made him easier to game plan against. I'd rather roll with Cardale and let him get experience.

[Big Gun]

Prior to the snap, Chandler shifts over to the right side - overloading it. Seantrell is set to block the linebacker 50. Fred takes off to the right flat and Mike Williams runs a short curl pattern.

#50 drops into coverage on Chandler. The CB has Williams covered. Fred's racing to the flat - ignoring Watt.

Seantrell is wondering WTF? EJ sees Watt coming and is winding up to toss the ball to Fred (or Williams for the first down).

 

Seantrell is about to say "Look OUT!" but he's slow to unravel his Toreador cape and just watches knowing a train wreck is about to happen.

EJ lofts the ball at Fred probably thinking he can't get it to Williams because the freight train DPOY is bearing down on him.

Seantrell manages to turn almost 30 degrees toward Watt, who's about two yards behind him already.

Watt times his leap perfectly, plays volleyball with himself and is off the the races.

 

Whoever called this play and did not account for Watt's presence on the field bears a lot of responsibility for the outcome.

My point is, there's a lot more blame to go around than simply saying EJ sucks. Should he have taken the sack? Probably.

Could he have thrown the ball away? Sure, but it would have been a penalty for IG.

Could he have made the pass to Williams near the first down marker? Perhaps, but by the time EJ had to throw the ball, Williams wasn't there and Watt seems to be in that passing lane.

 

A great play by Watt. A terrible toss by EJ. A worse blocking scheme would be hard to imagine.

 

That's my opinion and you're entitled to it.

Those stills show guys open all over. EJ never looked anywhere else. EJ sucks.

[Kelly the Dog]

Prior to the snap, Chandler shifts over to the right side - overloading it. Seantrell is set to block the linebacker 50. Fred takes off to the right flat and Mike Williams runs a short curl pattern.

#50 drops into coverage on Chandler. The CB has Williams covered. Fred's racing to the flat - ignoring Watt.

Seantrell is wondering WTF? EJ sees Watt coming and is winding up to toss the ball to Fred (or Williams for the first down).

 

Seantrell is about to say "Look OUT!" but he's slow to unravel his Toreador cape and just watches knowing a train wreck is about to happen.

EJ lofts the ball at Fred probably thinking he can't get it to Williams because the freight train DPOY is bearing down on him.

Seantrell manages to turn almost 30 degrees toward Watt, who's about two yards behind him already.

Watt times his leap perfectly, plays volleyball with himself and is off the the races.

 

Whoever called this play and did not account for Watt's presence on the field bears a lot of responsibility for the outcome.

My point is, there's a lot more blame to go around than simply saying EJ sucks. Should he have taken the sack? Probably.

Could he have thrown the ball away? Sure, but it would have been a penalty for IG.

Could he have made the pass to Williams near the first down marker? Perhaps, but by the time EJ had to throw the ball, Williams wasn't there and Watt seems to be in that passing lane.

 

A great play by Watt. A terrible toss by EJ. A worse blocking scheme would be hard to imagine.

 

That's my opinion and you're entitled to it.

My opinion of that play is that EJ was ready to throw to Fred all the time because he saw Watt running free and knew he would be but Fred never turns around and looks for the ball until it's too late. So when EJ is in his throwing motion he kind of lets up, the ball doesn't go as high or far as he wants, Watts times his jump perfectly as you said and just makes a great play. It's not to exonerate EJ for the lousy play, it was. But it was not the worst play in the world. I think if Fred was looking for the ball, which he should have been knowing Watt was unblocked, it would have been out to him quicker and a completion. Edited August 31, 2016 by Kelly the Dog

[thebandit27]

 

After Jacksonville last year, don't think it could be much worse. EJ's NFL experience isn't a plus. It has only exposed his serious deficiencies to NFL defenses and coaches and made him easier to game plan against. I'd rather roll with Cardale and let him get experience.

 

If you thought EJ was ugly in Jacksonville last year, what do you think is going to happen when Cardale--who has never played against anything but 3rd stringers in the preseason and started a total of 8 college games--gets in there?

Personally, I'm all about wanting my backup to try to win the game, not gain experience.

[billykaykay]

No. Although they traded down to get EJ, Whaley clearly leans toward trading away draft picks and of course over-paying players. That said, trading EJ could certainly get us back the 2018 pick that Whaley just gave away and who knows, maybe even another 7th rounder, or a mediocre at best ex-Jet.

When EJ signs with another team as a free agent, we will probably receive a 3rd round compensatory pick ( I think ).

[Solomon Grundy]

One thing EJ Manuel showed me in that Jacksonville is that he's not a quitter!! He also showed major leadership skills in that game as well. Although having a subpar statistical game, his team in the end still had the opportunity to win the game. Had the defense not allowed Blake Bortles to drive 83 yards and score a TD, this blog and others would have been talking about EJ Manuel differently. I'm also impressed by the way he has worked on his craft to get better. EVERYONE knew he was a project and his projection his trending upward.

[Big Gun]

 

If you thought EJ was ugly in Jacksonville last year, what do you think is going to happen when Cardale--who has never played against anything but 3rd stringers in the preseason and started a total of 8 college games--gets in there?

Personally, I'm all about wanting my backup to try to win the game, not gain experience.

Hey, Cardale can go o-fer just like EJ. Not hard to do, heck maybe Cardale can even win a game.

[Mr. WEO]

Prior to the snap, Chandler shifts over to the right side - overloading it. Seantrell is set to block the linebacker 50. Fred takes off to the right flat and Mike Williams runs a short curl pattern.

#50 drops into coverage on Chandler. The CB has Williams covered. Fred's racing to the flat - ignoring Watt.

Seantrell is wondering WTF? EJ sees Watt coming and is winding up to toss the ball to Fred (or Williams for the first down).

 

Seantrell is about to say "Look OUT!" but he's slow to unravel his Toreador cape and just watches knowing a train wreck is about to happen.

EJ lofts the ball at Fred probably thinking he can't get it to Williams because the freight train DPOY is bearing down on him.

Seantrell manages to turn almost 30 degrees toward Watt, who's about two yards behind him already.

Watt times his leap perfectly, plays volleyball with himself and is off the the races.

 

Whoever called this play and did not account for Watt's presence on the field bears a lot of responsibility for the outcome.

My point is, there's a lot more blame to go around than simply saying EJ sucks. Should he have taken the sack? Probably.

Could he have thrown the ball away? Sure, but it would have been a penalty for IG.

Could he have made the pass to Williams near the first down marker? Perhaps, but by the time EJ had to throw the ball, Williams wasn't there and Watt seems to be in that passing lane.

 

A great play by Watt. A terrible toss by EJ. A worse blocking scheme would be hard to imagine.

 

That's my opinion and you're entitled to it.

 

 

Pump fake...

[thebandit27]

Hey, Cardale can go o-fer just like EJ. Not hard to do, heck maybe Cardale can even win a game.

He's not even ready to face backups in the preseason.

 

The other guy has started and won games in this league.

 

No comparison

[Santana]

For what the Bills would get in compensation as to the value he has with this team as a back up it's just not worth it to trade him. He's not a starter but there's really not too many QB's out there who are comparable to him. He knows the system and he has rapport with the players.

[Beef Jerky]

And go with a rookie 4th round pick with a total of 8 college starts as the backup?

Better then knowing you won't win the game...

[C.Biscuit97]

Yay! The same tools come out to bash EJ.

 

Cardale wins championships!!! Maybe before anointing him, you read his game logs from last year. He wasn't ready for Northern Illinois much less the Jets.

[Freddie's Dead]

 

I would take less (a third) but hope your deal goes through.

My point is to find out how bad the Viqueens or anybody else wants him. I need a backup QB this season, so the offer to trade him has to be ridiculously in the Bills favor, or else I keep EJ, let him leave in FA, and then get my 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Freddie's Dead

[What a Tuel]

My point is to find out how bad the Viqueens or anybody else wants him. I need a backup QB this season, so the offer to trade him has to be ridiculously in the Bills favor, or else I keep EJ, let him leave in FA, and then get my 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick.

 

This is a good point. We would get a comp pick for letting him go?

[Rico]

and who has in 8 college starts, started and won more national championships than EJ, and already looks the 4th year vets equal with all this lack of experience.

When a 4th round, 8 college game start guy in his first NFL training camp looks as good as a 4th year 1st rounder, it's time for the team to cut bait and move on from their mistake.

Definitely way past time to move on, but I would've still left Cardale at #3.

 

DW should've had a caretaker QB in here earlier to learn the system. If TT goes down this year for any length of time, the finger of blame will be clearly pointing his way.

[Kelly the Dog]

Yay! The same tools come out to bash EJ.

Cardale wins championships!!! Maybe before anointing him, you read his game logs from last year. He wasn't ready for Northern Illinois much less the Jets.

I don't think he ever lost a game he appeared in at OSU.

Not that I think he should start an NFL game or even play in one this year.

[Freddie's Dead]

 

This is a good point. We would get a comp pick for letting him go?

It would come out in the formula of who we lose and who we pick up, but EJ going to FA would be a big plus for us in the compensatory pick formula.

[Wayne Arnold]

The EJ Manuel obsession many have is beginning to border on perverse.

[Rico]

It would come out in the formula of who we lose and who we pick up, but EJ going to FA would be a big plus for us in the compensatory pick formula.

i forget, what did the Bills get for JP when he left town?

[DC Greg]

My point is to find out how bad the Viqueens or anybody else wants him. I need a backup QB this season, so the offer to trade him has to be ridiculously in the Bills favor, or else I keep EJ, let him leave in FA, and then get my 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick.

 

That pick is huge. Definitely will be the biggest contribution EJ has made to the franchise. I agree to keep him then let him walk for that.

[Kelly the Dog]

i forget, what did the Bills get for JP when he left town?

Less landscapers?

[Wayne Arnold]

 

That pick is huge. Definitely will be the biggest contribution EJ has made to the franchise. I agree to keep him then let him walk for that.

 

In that case...watch for Whaley to trade Manuel shortly before New Year's for a conditional 7th.

[Freddie's Dead]

i forget, what did the Bills get for JP when he left town?

According to Wikipedia, JP was our only notable FA loss that year, while we signed TO, Fitz, etc. The Bills didn't have any talent in those years, so we had no compensatory picks from 2009-2012.

 

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/tag/compensatory-picks/

[thebandit27]

Better then knowing you won't win the game...

Did you miss that he's won games in this league?

 

True story

[Hanoverbills]

A couple notes before I get started:

- I know I'm late to the convo

- I like EJ as our backup

- I'm not trying to dispute Hopeful's post, just adding additional context to the first and last paragraphs.

 

EJ Manuel Tyrod Taylor

16 Games Started 14 Games Started

19 Passing TD's 20 Passing TD's

4 Rushing TD's 4 Rushing TD's

1.44 TD's per Game 1.71 TD's per Game

15 INT's 6 INT's

4 Fumbles Lost 1 Fumble Lost

1.19 Turnovers per Game 0.5 Turnovers per Game

1.21 TD/Turnover Ratio 3.43 TD/Turnover Ratio

~211 Passing Yards per Game ~217 Passing Yards per Game

7 Games under 30 Attempts (5-2 record) 9 Games under 30 Attempts (8-1 record)

9 Games 30+ Attempts (1-8 record) 5 Games 30+ Attempts (0-5 record)

Overall Record: 6-10 Overall Record: 8-6

0 300+ Passing Yard Games 0 300+ Passing Yard Games

0 3+ Passing TD Games* 4 3+ Passing TD Games

 

*EJ did have a 3 TD game against Jax in 2013 if you count his rushing TD

 

I think the TD/Turnover ratio and the 3+ Passing TD games are why you feel the way you do in your last statement.

 

EDIT: Added YPG to the list.

Manuel had 5 games with 2 tds and Taylor had 1 game with 2 tds.

[Hanoverbills]

To be fair, Fitz has only thrown 30 + touchdowns once in his career and it was in his 11th year for his 6th different team.

 

I am closer to you though in where I think EJ ends up. He probably bounces around for another 5 or so years as a backup on 2 or 3 other teams after the Bills let him go.

Taylor didn't get to start until his 5th year. Would he been able to start his 5th year, if he would've started as a rookie. He could've sucked his first two or three years and never got a chance to develope into the kind of player he is today. Everybody would judge him on what he looked like his first couple years and thinking he can't get better. Blaine Gabbert and Alex Smith are both starting Qbs who were considered BUST when they first started. Alex Smith stats were the same as Taylors last year. Alex Smith looked worst than EJ his first couple years. He was a first overall pick. Kaepernick put up same stats in 2014 as Taylor and know he might not make the team. Kirk Cousins 2013 4 tds., 7 int., 2 fumbles, 52% com. pct and 5.5 yds att. in 5 games. Know look at him he starting for Redskins.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Hanoverbills

[GunnerBill]

Taylor didn't get to start until his 5th year. Would he been able to start his 5th year, if he would've started as a rookie. He could've sucked his first two or three years and never got a chance to develope into the kind of player he is today. Everybody would judge him on what he looked like his first couple years and thinking he can't get better. Blaine Gabbert and Alex Smith are both starting Qbs who were considered BUST when they first started. Alex Smith stats were the same as Taylors last year. Alex Smith looked worst than EJ his first couple years. He was a first overall pick. Kaepernick put up same stats in 2014 as Taylor and know he might not make the team. Kirk Cousins 2013 4 tds., 7 int., 2 fumbles, 52% com. pct and 5.5 yds att. in 5 games. Know look at him he starting for Redskins.

What is your point?

[3rdand12]

Prior to the snap, Chandler shifts over to the right side - overloading it. Seantrell is set to block the linebacker 50. Fred takes off to the right flat and Mike Williams runs a short curl pattern.

#50 drops into coverage on Chandler. The CB has Williams covered. Fred's racing to the flat - ignoring Watt.

Seantrell is wondering WTF? EJ sees Watt coming and is winding up to toss the ball to Fred (or Williams for the first down).

 

Seantrell is about to say "Look OUT!" but he's slow to unravel his Toreador cape and just watches knowing a train wreck is about to happen.

EJ lofts the ball at Fred probably thinking he can't get it to Williams because the freight train DPOY is bearing down on him.

Seantrell manages to turn almost 30 degrees toward Watt, who's about two yards behind him already.

Watt times his leap perfectly, plays volleyball with himself and is off the the races.

 

Whoever called this play and did not account for Watt's presence on the field bears a lot of responsibility for the outcome.

My point is, there's a lot more blame to go around than simply saying EJ sucks. Should he have taken the sack? Probably.

Could he have thrown the ball away? Sure, but it would have been a penalty for IG.

Could he have made the pass to Williams near the first down marker? Perhaps, but by the time EJ had to throw the ball, Williams wasn't there and Watt seems to be in that passing lane.

 

A great play by Watt. A terrible toss by EJ. A worse blocking scheme would be hard to imagine.

 

That's my opinion and you're entitled to it.

I have always felt entitled

Ugly day really

 

 

Pump fake...

hind sight....

[Hanoverbills]

What is your point?

Some of you think that he will always be a backup or out of the NFL in a couple years. I wanted to show QBs that were like Manuel, that people gave up on and turn out to be productive starters in the NFL. Also wanted to show QBs that were consider franchise Qbs one year like Kaepernick, and then turn up fighting for roster spot know. Manuel could turn out to be a starter and Taylor like Kaepernick could be fighting for a roster spot couple years down the road. Not going to say it will happen, but you don't know. Cousin I put in there because he bad two years ago. I think he was behind Griffen and McCoy. 29 tds latter he is a starter.

[Rico]

According to Wikipedia, JP was our only notable FA loss that year, while we signed TO, Fitz, etc. The Bills didn't have any talent in those years, so we had no compensatory picks from 2009-2012.

 

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/tag/compensatory-picks/

Too bad we signed Fitz and TO, or that draft pick we would've gotten for JP would've been pretty sweet. Judging by what they've shown on the field, i figure EJ will bring about the same value.