Could Elam be packaged in a trade up?

[stinky finger]

5 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

But what are you getting for him? Don’t trade him just to get anything, that’s ludicrous. He’s on a rookie deal at a position of need-that being said he was on the bench, he was inactive, and he was on IR last year…so what could they possibly get for him? His trade value has never been lower and will never be lower

 

So this justifies him taking a roster spot? Time to cut yoUr losses and move on. We made one mistake picking him. Let's not compound it by keeping him.

[mikemac2001]

Elam gets to much hate he is probably our biggest and most athletic DB and hasn’t looked terrible out there.

 

I wouldn’t be giving him up for pennies he’s 22 years old 

 

you always need DBs as well so we would just be drafting a 5th-7th rounder to replace him or signing an old vet no thanks 

 

 

Edited April 13 by mikemac2001

[Ya Digg?]

7 minutes ago, stinky finger said:

 

So this justifies him taking a roster spot? Time to cut yoUr losses and move on. We made one mistake picking him. Let's not compound it by keeping him.

But he’s not an unrosterable guy. What losses are you cutting? Doesn’t look like he’s a starter but he’s fine for depth. I would much rather have him in the game than Cam Lewis

[stinky finger]

2 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

But he’s not an unrosterable guy. What losses are you cutting? Doesn’t look like he’s a starter but he’s fine for depth. I would much rather have him in the game than Cam Lewis

 

Understood. But why limit yourself to those choices. Get someone who will actually contribute. I've seen enough from him.

[mikemac2001]

2 minutes ago, stinky finger said:

 

Understood. But why limit yourself to those choices. Get someone who will actually contribute. I've seen enough from him.

You think he can’t

 

others think he can more then an old vet or late round pick 

 

he is our 4th CB right now and our backup outside CB I think is better then other options 

[SoonerBillsFan]

I want to see what the new DB coach can do with him.

[stinky finger]

40 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

You think he can’t

 

others think he can more then an old vet or late round pick 

 

he is our 4th CB right now and our backup outside CB I think is better then other options 

Differing opinion is all. I'll gladly move on from him.

[nosejob]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:00 PM, T master said:

I'm hoping that being fully healthy this season & showing some flashes that he has when playing that the switch will turn on & he will become the player they thought he would be & our secondary will be as strong or better for it with him coming around !! 

I think he'll get better, maybe very good. McD said that he realizes the need to incorporate more man. He said we need to be able to adapt.

 

I didn't know if I'd ever see this from him ever or not, but very encouraged.

[BillsFooteball]

Elam is going to see the field this year. This is it for him in Buffalo. I hope nobody gets injured but guys are going to miss some time. Right now he’s first guy in if Benford or Douglas go down. You are not getting more than a 6th rounder for him. I’ll roll with Elam this year 

Edited April 13 by BillsFooteball

[4th&long]

5 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Or, in your case, murderers row. 

He came off the bench.  He's a first rounder. You call out one play he made and you say coach him up.

 

He doesn't fit here. I think he something to offer, just not here.

Could be. I just don’t see him bringing much a trade. Hopefully whatever the problem is changes but probably wishful thinking. 
 

 

[Nextmanup]

On 4/10/2024 at 11:07 PM, Turbo44 said:

Elam and 28 for 33

This is accurate though it is funny reader all these homer/Bills fan comments in this thread. 

 

People need to come clean with this kid; he sucks.

 

 

[nedboy7]

I would package #28 and Baylon Spector to move up to #3 

At #3 I would draft Baylon's replacement.  Edefuan Ulofoshio

Edited April 14 by nedboy7

[QLBillsFan]

15 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

This is accurate though it is funny reader all these homer/Bills fan comments in this thread. 

 

People need to come clean with this kid; he sucks.

 

 

Could be. But the Bills invested a first on him for some reason. They hope to recoup the upside of that decision. Makes no sense to dump him for nothing. New DB coach so we shall see. He’s made some plays in limited time he’s been on the field. He was also bad in the Jax game. They have him in the mix this year and I expect to see him on the field a fair amount. If he breaks out great. If not he’s depth. He literally has no value to anyone but the Bills. 

[LABILLBACKER]

23 hours ago, nosejob said:

I think he'll get better, maybe very good. McD said that he realizes the need to incorporate more man. He said we need to be able to adapt.

 

I didn't know if I'd ever see this from him ever or not, but very encouraged.

And there lies the biggest problem.  We should've been transitioning to more man coverage years ago. I'm willing to give Kaiir one more year to improve his zone play. And if he can't accomplish that with a new coach then cut his ass.

[nosejob]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

And there lies the biggest problem.  We should've been transitioning to more man coverage years ago. I'm willing to give Kaiir one more year to improve his zone play. And if he can't accomplish that with a new coach then cut his ass.

I heard McD in a presser saying exactly what I posted. What I heard lead me to believe he feels some innovation on D is in store...and I hope so.

He mentioned the need to zig when they think you're zagging.

[TOboy]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:12 PM, stinky finger said:

 

So this justifies him taking a roster spot? Time to cut yoUr losses and move on. We made one mistake picking him. Let's not compound it by keeping him.

If you don’t want him what are the chances he has any value? 
 

For all we know the plan is to play more man to man this year making him offer more value. If they’re keeping him they see something. 

[Mark Vader]

On 4/10/2024 at 7:40 PM, Tipster19 said:

Here are the 5 worse secondaries from last year ranked.

 

#28 Colts

#29 Giants

#30 Cardinals

#31 Raiders

#32 Bears

 

if so it would soften the compensation it would take to move up with any of these teams. How Elam’s value is perceived is something I’d be curious to know. 

Bad idea.

 

We've already lost White & Jackson. Getting rid of Elam, would only cause another hole to fill. 

[Mr. WEO]

On 4/10/2024 at 11:38 PM, Beck Water said:

 

I think this is one of these things where, "if you don't think enough of your 2022 1st round pick to play him in in more than half the games, and you're already giving up and willing to trade him, we don't think enough of him that we're willing to give you very much"

 

 

Fact: Cordy Glenn, who was an established starting LT before previous season injury and IR, moved us up 9 spots from 21 to 12, WITH a same year 5th round pick thrown in (and a 6th back as change).

 

Fact: Brown is not a LT, and a 2025 4th is considered devalued to approximate a 2025 5th. 

 

I don't think you're gonna see Brown get you 12 spots. 

 

 

 

excellent points.

 

 

Brown has had one passable season on the line.  12 spots in the 1st round is insane.   Brown isn't on any teams radar

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

49 minutes ago, nosejob said:

I heard McD in a presser saying exactly what I posted. What I heard lead me to believe he feels some innovation on D is in store...and I hope so.

He mentioned the need to zig when they think you're zagging.

At least that analogy is far better than the one that got him in so much trouble last year. 🤔

 

Maybe someone teaches McDermott to speak Tamarian?

"McDermott, his eyes uncovered!  Benford and Elam at Met Life!"

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

I’d rather keep the kid on his rookie contract and hope the new coaching regime on defense can turn him into a viable back up, if not a starter.  If they can’t?  Bye Felicia, but his trade value currently is about equal to 2024 Sabres playoff tickets. 

[Don Otreply]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:51 PM, MiltonWaddams said:

I had high hopes for Kaiir, but he has not shown a darn thing in this league. He may still be developed, but I doubt he’s shown enough to get much of anything in terms of a move up in the first round.

Iirc he had three interceptions in his rookie year to include one on Mahomes in the end zone, so yes he has shown talent, he certainly isn’t “there” yet, and you are under stating his potential value, jmo. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:40 PM, Tipster19 said:

Here are the 5 worse secondaries from last year ranked.

 

#28 Colts

#29 Giants

#30 Cardinals

#31 Raiders

#32 Bears

 

if so it would soften the compensation it would take to move up with any of these teams. How Elam’s value is perceived is something I’d be curious to know. 

 

He's a failed prospects, he doesn't hold much value or he would have been dealt by now imo.

[The BLUES Brothers]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

He's a failed prospects, he doesn't hold much value or he would have been dealt by now imo.

You could be right, but many coaches think they have what it takes to make the lightbulb go if in their system.  Have to hope so, as it will improve the asset we receive.

 

 

[Scott7975]

It's possible I suppose.  It depends on if the Bills think they can still make him a fit in our defense and if the kid can improve.  I don't think the kid is done but if the Bills don't value him or don't think they can make him work then I would expect at some point they will try and get something for him.  He was a 1st round pick. I think it's dumb to just let those guys walk.  Get something for him if he can't play here.  Anything is better than nothing.

[Chandler#81]

Trade up? Hell no. The overall consensus is this entire Draft is weak -sans a couple positions. Use picks to trade for quality League starters.

[BigDingus]

We should just make a thread going over all players we'd be willing to use specifically to trade up. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being "zero desire to trade" & 10 being "cya later!"

 

I'll start:

 

Josh Allen - 1

James Cook  - 5

Khalil Shakir - 4

Curtis Samuel - 1 (just signed)

Mack Hollins - 1 (just signed)

Dalton Kincaid - 1

Dion Dawkins - 3

Connor McGovern - 4

O'Cyrus Torrence - 2

Spencer Brown - 5

Greg Rousseau - 6

DaQuan Jones - 4

Ed Oliver - 1

Von Miller - 9 (in a fantasy scenario where it was possible)

Matt Milano - 1

Terrel Bernard - 2

Dorian Williams - 6

Rasul Douglas - 2

Kaiir Elam - 10

Christian Benford - 6 (always injured)

Taron Johnson - 1

 

Anyone else is either not relevant enough, nobody cares, is a recent signing, or wouldn't be worth a 7th round pick in a trade value anyway.

 

Edited April 15 by BigDingus

[julian]

On 4/15/2024 at 5:58 PM, BigDingus said:

We should just make a thread going over all players we'd be willing to use specifically to trade up. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being "zero desire to trade" & 10 being "cya later!"

 

I'll start:

 

Josh Allen - 1

James Cook  - 5

Khalil Shakir - 4

Curtis Samuel - 1 (just signed)

Mack Hollins - 1 (just signed)

Dalton Kincaid - 1

Dion Dawkins - 3

Connor McGovern - 4

O'Cyrus Torrence - 2

Spencer Brown - 5

Greg Rousseau - 6

DaQuan Jones - 4

Ed Oliver - 1

Von Miller - 9 (in a fantasy scenario where it was possible)

Matt Milano - 1

Terrel Bernard - 2

Dorian Williams - 6

Rasul Douglas - 2

Kaiir Elam - 10

Christian Benford - 6 (always injured)

Taron Johnson - 1

 

Anyone else is either not relevant enough, nobody cares, is a recent signing, or wouldn't be worth a 7th round pick in a trade value anyway.

 

Pretty reasonable, my only changes would be very minor.. I’m having OCyrus and Bernard at 1, I think I can agree with the rest

[Old Coot]

On 4/11/2024 at 4:55 AM, Ayjent said:

It was all there if you watched the games. He played well against a couple of good WRs and teams fell in love with what he could be instead of what he was.  Terrible tackler, inconsistent in coverage, capable of getting completely lost in scheme.  I thought he was being overvalued a lot in pre draft and was absolutely shocked when Bills took him. I watch all UF games and I wasn’t a fan of his game.  I had hope that maybe it was just Mullen’s terrible staff that was the issue and talked myself into the pick trusting Beane.  He played decent in yr 1 at times, but the chance he develops is slim at this point.  Maybe it was hubris with the Bills staff and FO.  There just isn’t much of a place for him other than outside CB and the Bills don’t trust him there. 

This makes it even more puzzling as to why the Bills would make him a first round draft pick. I admit that I'm a McDermott homie but I'll bet Beane would not have drafted him in the 1st without strong McD support.

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

This makes it even more puzzling as to why the Bills would make him a first round draft pick. I admit that I'm a McDermott homie but I'll bet Beane would not have drafted him in the 1st without strong McD support.

 

With all respect to Ayjent, here is Kaiir Elam's draft profile:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kaiir-elam/3200454c-4155-0002-a198-92eda6859fa9

He wasn't regarded as a Day 1 starter, but he was regarded as physically talented and projected to go in the 1st.

 

https://gatorswire.usatoday.com/2021/11/17/florida-football-kaiir-elam-espn-draft-mock/

https://www.si.com/college/florida/football/florida-gators-kaiir-elam-mock-draft-br-top-ten

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Kaiir-Elam-DB-Florida

 

Now of course, all these pundits who don't have accountability should be taken with a grain of salt, but the point is, he wasn't regarded as a reach in the 1st and some even predicted him as a top-10 or first-half of the 1st pick.

[Patrick Duffy]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:21 PM, mikemac2001 said:

Elam gets to much hate he is probably our biggest and most athletic DB and hasn’t looked terrible out there.

 

I wouldn’t be giving him up for pennies he’s 22 years old 

 

you always need DBs as well so we would just be drafting a 5th-7th rounder to replace him or signing an old vet no thanks 

 

 

 

I fully agree, I understand it should be a certain level of frustration with him, but some talk like he is worthless. He's had some flashes here and there, also I for one thought that INT he made in the EZ against Steelers in the playoffs was a damn good play.

 

 

 

[Ya Digg?]

29 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

I fully agree, I understand it should be a certain level of frustration with him, but some talk like he is worthless. He's had some flashes here and there, also I for one thought that INT he made in the EZ against Steelers in the playoffs was a damn good play.

 

 

 

YeAh BuT iT WaS aGAiNsT MaSoN RuDoLpH 

[mikemac2001]

42 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

YeAh BuT iT WaS aGAiNsT MaSoN RuDoLpH 

Leave Patrick Duffy alone 

[Ayjent]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

With all respect to Ayjent, here is Kaiir Elam's draft profile:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kaiir-elam/3200454c-4155-0002-a198-92eda6859fa9

He wasn't regarded as a Day 1 starter, but he was regarded as physically talented and projected to go in the 1st.

 

https://gatorswire.usatoday.com/2021/11/17/florida-football-kaiir-elam-espn-draft-mock/

https://www.si.com/college/florida/football/florida-gators-kaiir-elam-mock-draft-br-top-ten

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Kaiir-Elam-DB-Florida

 

Now of course, all these pundits who don't have accountability should be taken with a grain of salt, but the point is, he wasn't regarded as a reach in the 1st and some even predicted him as a top-10 or first-half of the 1st pick.

Oh he was valued that high by a lot of people but as a fan watching game after game and the development or lack thereof of his play, I didnt understand why he was valued where he was.  Especially following the college season he was drafted where he regressed.  The gator D was terrible and Elam was part of the problem, despite flashes of good plays. 

 

For all the work scouts and NFL personnel guys do, there are still things that get overlooked or dismissed.  All teams make bad picks, and its not a science bc you never know how a player will respond and adapt to the pro game and how determined they will be to find success, and whether that hard work will even translate into success. 

 

I was just saying that the play on the college level gave a lot of insight into Elam's prospects of being a star CB in the NFL.  I was vocal about him not being a 1st rounder prior to that draft and the only gator i wanted to see on the Bills was Damien Pierce with a mid round pick bc of his physical running style to take some of those carries off of Josh.

[JerseyBills]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:51 PM, MiltonWaddams said:

I had high hopes for Kaiir, but he has not shown a darn thing in this league. He may still be developed, but I doubt he’s shown enough to get much of anything in terms of a move up in the first round.

Same. He has looked good at times in spot duty but Benford is clearly much better in this scheme.

 

As for trading,  i think a player for player trade is possible.  If we can swap him for a cb on a team that runs man alot, might be able to get a good CB. 

 

His contract is a rookie deal. He has potential.  Never know,  all it takes is 1 gm that likes what he has seen 

[Kirby Jackson]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:40 PM, Tipster19 said:

Here are the 5 worse secondaries from last year ranked.

 

#28 Colts

#29 Giants

#30 Cardinals

#31 Raiders

#32 Bears

 

if so it would soften the compensation it would take to move up with any of these teams. How Elam’s value is perceived is something I’d be curious to know. 

I think that he can be packaged to trade up. I think it’s realistic that if you package him with pick 189 you can get to 188.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

I fully agree, I understand it should be a certain level of frustration with him, but some talk like he is worthless. He's had some flashes here and there, also I for one thought that INT he made in the EZ against Steelers in the playoffs was a damn good play.

 

 

 

 

Rudolph threw it right to him

[MrEpsYtown]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Rudolph threw it right to him

 

Yep. Rudolph the message board hero. 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Oh he was valued that high by a lot of people but as a fan watching game after game and the development or lack thereof of his play, I didnt understand why he was valued where he was.  Especially following the college season he was drafted where he regressed.  The gator D was terrible and Elam was part of the problem, despite flashes of good plays. 

 

For all the work scouts and NFL personnel guys do, there are still things that get overlooked or dismissed.  All teams make bad picks, and its not a science bc you never know how a player will respond and adapt to the pro game and how determined they will be to find success, and whether that hard work will even translate into success. 

 

I was just saying that the play on the college level gave a lot of insight into Elam's prospects of being a star CB in the NFL.  I was vocal about him not being a 1st rounder prior to that draft and the only gator i wanted to see on the Bills was Damien Pierce with a mid round pick bc of his physical running style to take some of those carries off of Josh.

 

I think what you're describing is "the blessing and the curse" of fandom.

 

It's like when some here point out that we watch almost every snap of Josh Allen, but maybe only highlight reels and occasional games of other QBs.  So some here get hyper-critical of mistakes that Josh is making and fail to realize that every QB makes mistakes and has bad plays as well as good or brilliant plays - it's the overall balance.

 

So you're watching game after game of Elam, but perhaps not watching game after game of the other DBs in the draft and the other players in the draft.  But the scouts are watching film of many players and looking for that balance.

 

I'm not trying to argue that you're wrong about Elam, BTW, just that ascribing the pick to "hubris by the Bills staff and FO" is probably not a reasonable take on your part, given the above.  

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, Old Coot said:

This makes it even more puzzling as to why the Bills would make him a first round draft pick. I admit that I'm a McDermott homie but I'll bet Beane would not have drafted him in the 1st without strong McD support.

 

They drafted Elam in the first round because 1) he was legit regarded as a 1st round prospect 2) it's Beane's 'jam' to value traits you can't "coach up" - athletic skills - over a high level of demonstrated performance in college where the system, talent, and opposition are more variable.  It's one of the ways Beane tries to compensate for having a team that has been winning and therefore drafting near the bottom of each round for the last 5 years.  It's why we got players like Rousseau, who had a high physical ceiling but only played 14 (fourteen!) games in college.  And FWIW Rousseau grades higher than any other DL taken in that draft by PFR's wAV metric (higher than Jaelen Phillips and Kwity Paye who were drafted above him).   

 

Then there's Josh Allen, who we all know about as a high ceiling, sub-basement floor prospect

 

It's great when it works, and of course subject to second-guessing when it doesn't.

 

But the opposite tactic - taking a guy with a high level of demonstrated performance in college, but who may be near his "ceiling" and not able to make the jump to perform at the NFL level against more uniform talent on the opposition - has its pitfalls too.  Witness Boogie Basham.  And then there's the injury wildcard.

 

I do think that Beane needs to adjust his drafting strategy somewhat.  He's been very free with trading 3rd and 4th round picks to move up, partly on the theory that the roster was pretty well set so, it's worth it to go after a guy you really want vs. taking on more players who may not have a legit chance to make the roster.

 

Except now, our roster is not pretty well set so we need those rookies to come in and 'bring it', so I think Beane should assign a higher value to those 4th round picks.

Edited April 17 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Same. He has looked good at times in spot duty but Benford is clearly much better in this scheme.

 

As for trading,  i think a player for player trade is possible.  If we can swap him for a cb on a team that runs man alot, might be able to get a good CB. 

 

His contract is a rookie deal. He has potential.  Never know,  all it takes is 1 gm that likes what he has seen 

 

That's actually not a bad thought - the "Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard" phenomenon.

 

I think McDermott has been on record multiple times stating that players really develop and take a step in their 3rd season.  So I think the Bills still harbor hopes for Elam developing.  Time will tell.