bills742 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 What about play clock? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 minutes ago, bills742 said: What about play clock? I think that’s what he means. We don’t have a problem with the game clock expiring before a play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Have to assume they meant the play clock. Ugh this is going to be interesting to see how often some replay booth guy stops a play. It will be very difficult to stop the play before it is over. These are usually less than a second decision and by the time the replay official can notify anyone the play will be over. That means a possible referral of a TD, a sack, or a turnover. It's the right thing to do and my guess is QBs will just adjust and snap with 1 sec instead of zero. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Progress Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 In video review, are they still allowing the ~1s of grace or the time up when the clock hits 0? I hope they make it black and white. There are enough rules built on the judgement of the official... the play clock shouldn't be one of them. 6 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordong Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) they will find a way to have two different standards on this one too. Edited March 26 by gordong 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Have to assume they meant the play clock. Ugh this is going to be interesting to see how often some replay booth guy stops a play. It will be very difficult to stop the play before it is over. These are usually less than a second decision and by the time the replay official can notify anyone the play will be over. That means a possible referral of a TD, a sack, or a turnover. It's the right thing to do and my guess is QBs will just adjust and snap with 1 sec instead of zero. I imagine it will be treated like the offside rules in the top football (ok, ok... soccer) leagues. Play will continue until it's conclusion, then revisited if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills742 Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 18 minutes ago, Brand J said: I think that’s what he means. We don’t have a problem with the game clock expiring before a play. That's what I assumed, but here it is officially listed as game clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Whatever benefits KC will be what they go with 1 5 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, Sweats said: Whatever benefits KC will be what they go with I'm thinking they'll have a rule to review any play where Patrick throws an INT. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I don’t ever remember any issue where the game clock expired and they let the play go off. If this is truly game clock and not play clock, then this is a rule to solve a problem that doesn’t even exist. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 It's annoying coaches need to burn a challenge for something like this. It shouldn't even happen if the refs paid attention 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 16 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said: I don’t ever remember any issue where the game clock expired and they let the play go off. If this is truly game clock and not play clock, then this is a rule to solve a problem that doesn’t even exist. This is in response to a Jordan Love play this year where the game clock had expired but the snap was allowed and they got a huge gain. It wasnt reviewable so the play stood. This rule has no bearing on the play clock. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 The play clock is kept by the back judge I believe; what you see on the screen is not the official clock, just an estimate. This rule is for the game clock only, it will not affect the play clock. 17 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said: I don’t ever remember any issue where the game clock expired and they let the play go off. If this is truly game clock and not play clock, then this is a rule to solve a problem that doesn’t even exist. It happened last year in an NFC game at the end of a quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I would like to apply for this job! I don’t need replay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) So frustrating when the announcers constantly say that the back judge needs to first see the play clock turn to zero, then look back at the QB to see if the ball has been snapped and "that's why" the play was not called dead/penalty, because of the time it takes to gaze from the clock to the snap of the ball... like there's some magical 1-2 second grace period. Meanwhile, I'm on my couch and can clearly see the snap happened after the clock hit zero. The rule is the rule. Whatever they have to do to enforce it. Can't snap the ball after the clock hits 0:0. Edited March 26 by BuffaloBillies 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Not exactly related, but I've always thought it was weirdly ironic that an offense can snap the ball a fraction of a second late, and the game would intentionally be stopped for a couple of minutes of non-action because of a "delay of game". 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I hate the extra 9 tenth's of a second they get after it hit's zero. Install a clock with tenths of a second or do away with the extra time all together. This infuriates me lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) This has always been the stupidest most aggravating thing for me - not only that they can't get something so simple correct - but then doubling down on the stupidest most assinine moronic excuse - that when they miss it, it is due to "the time it takes for the referees eyes to go from the ball to the clock" - when that is essentially an instantaneous movement (and replays often show it being a full second or more sometimes). Even EJ Manuel's slow eyes can go from ball to clock in milliseconds. Edited March 26 by stevewin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) They did not mean the play clock. They meant the game clock. The actual rule that was passed was that they can review whether the GAME clock expired at the end of a QUARTER before the ball was snapped. They cannot review whether the PLAY clock expired before any snap. That would be chaos. See below for further explanation: https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-approves-rule-allowing-replay-review-to-see-if-game-clock-expires-before-snap The NFL announced that a rule change concerning the game clock has been approved at the league meetings on Tuesday. The Competition Committee’s proposal to allow for reviews of whether the game clock expired before a snap got the required votes to become a rule. The change does not apply to the play clock, so it will not impact delay of game penalties. On the final play of the third quarter of a game between the Packers and Lions in Week Four of the 2023 season, the Packers picked up 44 yards but the Lions objected because they argued the quarter ended before the snap. Replays showed that the Lions were correct, but there was no recourse under the old rules. That changed on Tuesday and a similar play will have a different result in the future. Edited March 26 by Logic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhit34 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 This wouldn't be necessary if they adopted what basketball does - go to the tenths of a second in the last 5 seconds on the shot clock. While they are at it, they should also go to tenths of a second on the game clock in the final minute of each quarter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Leave it to the NFL to solve a miniscule problem (game clock) and completely ignore the actual, frequent problem (play clock) 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behindenemylines Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 hours ago, gordong said: they will find a way to have two different standards on this one too. Exactly. It will be known as the KC Timeclock Tuck rule. Unless the clock is fully expired “past” zero meaning a negative time of 1 second the play will be valid-but only for KC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 One would think that a delay of game call would be the easiest call for NFL Referees to make ... Apparently not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 21 hours ago, Simon said: The play clock is kept by the back judge I believe; what you see on the screen is not the official clock, just an estimate. This rule is for the game clock only, it will not affect the play clock. It happened last year in an NFC game at the end of a quarter. That’s probably the only time it ever happened. Either the team lets the clock run out or they do the fake snap count before the quarter expires. In the other instances, I feel like they’ve batted 100 in the times the game clock was running down and the offensive team couldn’t get a play off or spike the ball before it hit 00:00. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/26/2024 at 9:43 AM, Simon said: The play clock is kept by the back judge I believe; what you see on the screen is not the official clock, just an estimate. The refs have confirmed multiple times that the back judge looks up at the play clock and if he sees it hit zero, then looks back down and the snap happens within a second, they let it go. It's the most black and white thing that they made gray for no reason and are very inconsistent on. 13 hours ago, Brand J said: That’s probably the only time it ever happened. Either the team lets the clock run out or they do the fake snap count before the quarter expires. In the other instances, I feel like they’ve batted 100 in the times the game clock was running down and the offensive team couldn’t get a play off or spike the ball before it hit 00:00. And what was the result of the GB game where this supposedly happen? Was there a score? Was there any impact at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 I sometimes think they approved replay in the first place to sell more ad time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said: I sometimes think they approved replay in the first place to sell more ad time. It's possible. It's supposed to correct mistakes, but sometimes they still get it wrong even after the review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/26/2024 at 9:00 AM, Forward Progress said: In video review, are they still allowing the ~1s of grace or the time up when the clock hits 0? I hope they make it black and white. There are enough rules built on the judgement of the official... the play clock shouldn't be one of them. Spot the heck on!! Why did they ever build in the round off error on play clock is ok? So annoying to watch this ridiculous late snap bs. They have a clock, when it hits 0 the whole stadium understands a flag is coming 🤷🏻♂️.. seems logical! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) On 3/26/2024 at 11:59 AM, Brand J said: I think that’s what he means. We don’t have a problem with the game clock expiring before a play. No that is not what they mean...it means game clock as in before the end of the quarter/half, etc.. Play clock is too subjective because of the way it is handled by the backjudge who has to look from the clock to the center and see if there is any movement of the ball and due to the kind of arbitrary nature of when it is restarted after the play by the play clock operator. Technically the play clock could expire but because of the delay of the backjudge looking to the center to see, the snap could still get away and this is considered a legal snap and more importantly the NFL WANTS it to be considered a legal snap and err on the side of the offense. They do not want more penalties on the offense that could reduce scoring. There was a former NFL official on WGR the other day talking about this after they announced the changes and the reasoning behind why this only involves the game clock and not the play clock, since the game clock has no subjectivity attached to it. Edited March 28 by Big Turk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 17 hours ago, QLBillsFan said: Spot the heck on!! Why did they ever build in the round off error on play clock is ok? So annoying to watch this ridiculous late snap bs. They have a clock, when it hits 0 the whole stadium understands a flag is coming 🤷🏻♂️.. seems logical! No it's not spot on, it's misunderstanding how the play clock process actually works and how the the NFL WANTS it to work, erring on the side of the offense, and the gray area that has to exist because of it. Both due to the backjudge having to look from the playclock to the center and due to the arbitrary nature of when the play clock is started by the operator, which isn't clearly defined and has wiggle room built in. Edited March 28 by Big Turk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Big Turk said: No that is not what they mean...it means game clock as in before the end of the quarter/half, etc.. Play clock is too subjective because of the way it is handled by the backjudge who has to look from the clock to the center and see if there is any movement of the ball and due to the kind of arbitrary nature of when it is restarted after the play by the play clock operator. Technically the play clock could expire but because of the delay of the backjudge looking to the center to see, the snap could still get away and this is considered a legal snap and more importantly the NFL WANTS it to be considered a legal snap and err on the side of the offense. They do not want more penalties on the offense that could reduce scoring. There was a former NFL official on WGR the other day talking about this after they announced the changes and the reasoning behind why this only involves the game clock and not the play clock, since the game clock has no subjectivity attached to it. Wouldn’t it make more sense to just remove the subjectivity attached to the play clock as well? If they can do it for the game clock they could for the play clock. That’s what frustrates many people. The NFL has enough ambiguous rules. Removing subjectivity where possible seems like a logical step. Edit to add: The NBA doesn’t seem to have a problem with their shot clock. If it’s at 0 and the ball hasn’t left your hand, it has expired. The NFL should be the same way. If the play clock hits zero and the ball isn’t moving to initiate the snap, it’s a penalty. Edited March 28 by PetermansRedemption Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 So is it game clock or play clock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 49 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said: Wouldn’t it make more sense to just remove the subjectivity attached to the play clock as well? If they can do it for the game clock they could for the play clock. That’s what frustrates many people. The NFL has enough ambiguous rules. Removing subjectivity where possible seems like a logical step. Edit to add: The NBA doesn’t seem to have a problem with their shot clock. If it’s at 0 and the ball hasn’t left your hand, it has expired. The NFL should be the same way. If the play clock hits zero and the ball isn’t moving to initiate the snap, it’s a penalty. I don't think it is practical honestly. Sounds good in theory but won't work well in practice. The NFL has looked at this several times from what the former official said and they left it unchanged every time because of that. 14 minutes ago, Doc said: So is it game clock or play clock? Game clock not play clock. Edited March 28 by Big Turk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/26/2024 at 12:02 PM, gordong said: they will find a way to have two different standards on this one too. 100%. is anybody ACTUALLY on board with this? replays decision process already sucks, takes forever, is a mystery as how it interpreted/enforced.... refs will be PO'd about it and refuse to change ruling anyways... anddddddd were doing all this for an action that doesnt *actually* effect the outcome of a play. or at least it didnt, now it will LETS GET REPLAY TO REVIEW IF A PLAYERS SHIRT IS UNTUCKED! it it tucked in? untucked? half tucked? is that part tucked in, or just a little wrinkly in that spot!!! 15yard penalty, automatic first down!!! lets give the refs more huge momentum swinging capabilities!!! can not wait to see an offense challenge their own late snap play, that went for a pick 6, get overturned! wowwwweeeeeee thatll be exciting enough to warrant yet another 2min TV timeout during games!!! plus, think of the gambling! how awesome that refs have another out, and there will be self brought, warranted scrutiny, to every snap taken between 1second and -1 second on the playclock. certainly will make for exciting headlines, articles, fan complaints, and talking head discussions, about who "should've won" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Big Turk said: No it's not spot on, it's misunderstanding how the play clock process actually works and how the the NFL WANTS it to work, erring on the side of the offense, and the gray area that has to exist because of it. Both due to the backjudge having to look from the playclock to the center and due to the arbitrary nature of when the play clock is started by the operator, which isn't clearly defined and has wiggle room built in. I have no misunderstanding. Zero is zero. It’s absolutely insane to have plays go well past that then create a big question . The league of course created this but it’s ridiculous. Get the play into the headset, qb call your reads, snap the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Glad they are doing something about this but it seems like it would b On 3/26/2024 at 1:17 PM, babulator said: I hate the extra 9 tenth's of a second they get after it hit's zero. Install a clock with tenths of a second or do away with the extra time all together. This infuriates me lol The point is once it hits 0 time is up, they give a "half second" or so for the ref to go from looking at the clock to then look if the ball is snapped. It should not be on human to do that IMO, get it snapped on time or it should be called. It just looks bad when you can see the replay go to 0 but the play counts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 3 hours ago, QLBillsFan said: I have no misunderstanding. Zero is zero. It’s absolutely insane to have plays go well past that then create a big question . The league of course created this but it’s ridiculous. Get the play into the headset, qb call your reads, snap the ball. Clearly you do because you are arguing something that the NFL doesn't believe can be fixed properly or want to fix it. Based on what was said by the former official they did in depth reviews of the process multiple times over the years and decided to leave it be. Edited March 29 by Big Turk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 31 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Clearly you do because you are arguing something that the NFL doesn't believe can be fixed properly or want to fix it. Based on what was said by the former official they did in depth reviews of the process multiple times over the years and decided to leave it be. I’ve mentioned they don’t want to change it. You apparently think it’s a good plan to continue as is. That’s fine. I just don’t agree. So agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) On 3/28/2024 at 10:20 PM, QLBillsFan said: I’ve mentioned they don’t want to change it. You apparently think it’s a good plan to continue as is. That’s fine. I just don’t agree. So agree to disagree. They aren't interested in doing anything that will hurt the offense especially with the murkiness of how the play clock is restarted. Almost every rule change that has occurred over the past decade or more has been to add offense, why would they do something that works against that? Edited April 2 by Big Turk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I hate the Offside review in hockey after a goal is scored, so I'm glad this won't be for the play clock in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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