Bills sign Mack Hollins

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I am not trying to make it grow.  I have a feeling that you can’t see it anymore and you don’t even know what it looks like now.

 

People, including myself have made very logical arguments but you’re one of those guys that everyone is wrong and you are always right.  You against the world right?  

 

This time of the year last year, what was your opinion on Terrell Bernard?  

Yup. I hated Bernard and admitted I was wrong. So have a lot of people. 
 

now ask me what everyone else’s opinion of Harty and Sherfield was. Mine was that they were useless and wouldn’t even provide what McKenzie did and I was right. 
 

let me guess, you don’t want to get into that. 
 

I’ve expressed my opinion and actually come out with logical arguments as to why he’s a waste of money and a roster spot. You just sit there and suck on McBeane as they can’t possibly do any wrong. And sit there and come up with the typical, “he’s just a special teams guy” and “who else for the money do you want” BS. I spelled out exactly why those arguments are a joke. Because they waste roster spots and cap space on guys that have little to no impact on the team. Just like Harty and Sherfield last season. 
 

You’re so comical. Calling me out for being brash and stubborn in my opinions and doing the same thing yourself. Pot meet kettle 

[Richard Noggin]

Seems like some posters (^^^) get too wrapped up in one dominant "take" on the team's current direction, and aren't willing to relent or relax or see the humor in such unknowable certainty, and that really grates on the rest of the board. 

 

I have thoughts and opinions and projections as well, but I understand my own limitations, and as such try to use this site as a place to stay informed and in tune with fellow fans who aren't obsessed with their own opinions and projections. 

 

This SHOULD be fun. I guess not everyone agrees with that. 

Edited March 14 by Richard Noggin

[Royale with Cheese]

18 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yup. I hated Bernard and admitted I was wrong. So have a lot of people. 
 

now ask me what everyone else’s opinion of Harty and Sherfield was. Mine was that they were useless and wouldn’t even provide what McKenzie did and I was right. 
 

let me guess, you don’t want to get into that. 
 

I’ve expressed my opinion and actually come out with logical arguments as to why he’s a waste of money and a roster spot. You just sit there and suck on McBeane as they can’t possibly do any wrong. And sit there and come up with the typical, “he’s just a special teams guy” and “who else for the money do you want” BS. I spelled out exactly why those arguments are a joke. Because they waste roster spots and cap space on guys that have little to no impact on the team. Just like Harty and Sherfield last season. 
 

You’re so comical. Calling me out for being brash and stubborn in my opinions and doing the same thing yourself. Pot meet kettle 

Dude, I brought that up not to rub, but to show you maybe you should wait to see how it turns out?  Being so knee jerk is all the time is just so weird.

Most likely he is a 5th or 6th WR or maybe he doesn’t even make the team.  We have to bring 90 to camp you know that?  Are you expecting that all 90 players have to be all at least 1st-3rd string?  Because why else would you have a conniption fit over signing a depth guy at a depth price?  
 

Why don’t you actually understand what you’re arguing.  The Bills have too many $2 million dollar type players.  Guess what, the KC Chiefs who just won the Super Bowl has 35 players on their roster making $2.9 million dollars or less.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/
 

The Buffalo Bills have 34 players making $2.9 million or less.

 

I am not going to look up every team but I doubt there is a team that has less than 50% of their roster making $2.9 million or less.  Thats the way all NFL rosters are constructed, especially if you have to pay a QB.  Most of your players are making the lower end salaries with the your stars and good players eating up most of the cap.

 

But this is what you are bitching about.  The Bills being on par with 31 other teams in the NFL.

This is personal to you or something your disgust with every Bills move you don’t like but my god its like Beane told you to stick your tongue on the flag pole in the winter and you did it and you’re scorned.  

 

[mrags]

38 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Dude, I brought that up not to rub, but to show you maybe you should wait to see how it turns out?  Being so knee jerk is all the time is just so weird.

Most likely he is a 5th or 6th WR or maybe he doesn’t even make the team.  We have to bring 90 to camp you know that?  Are you expecting that all 90 players have to be all at least 1st-3rd string?  Because why else would you have a conniption fit over signing a depth guy at a depth price?  
 

Why don’t you actually understand what you’re arguing.  The Bills have too many $2 million dollar type players.  Guess what, the KC Chiefs who just won the Super Bowl has 35 players on their roster making $2.9 million dollars or less.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/
 

The Buffalo Bills have 34 players making $2.9 million or less.

 

I am not going to look up every team but I doubt there is a team that has less than 50% of their roster making $2.9 million or less.  Thats the way all NFL rosters are constructed, especially if you have to pay a QB.  Most of your players are making the lower end salaries with the your stars and good players eating up most of the cap.

 

But this is what you are bitching about.  The Bills being on par with 31 other teams in the NFL.

This is personal to you or something your disgust with every Bills move you don’t like but my god its like Beane told you to stick your tongue on the flag pole in the winter and you did it and you’re scorned.  

 

Except I’m not the one that Beane fooled over and over again like the people including yourself seem to accept. Of course we have no choice in the matter anyway. 
 

every year it’s the same crap. We sign these players that someone comes on this and every other Bills message board or FB, or any other social media page and defend why it’s a good decision. It’s not. It wasn’t last year, or the year before that, or the year before that. The proof is that we don’t win it all. So technically I’m right. Can B word about me complaining all you want but in the end I was right. Because we signed guys like Harry and Sherfield and Hollins. Taking away cap space and roster spots from people that might make a difference. Instead we ended up with guys like AJ Klein trying to cover Travis Kelce in the biggest game of the year, which by the way, I was right about that too with Bernard, he was too small and would get banged up. And it happened at the worst possible time. But I said I was wrong about Bernard in the past. Love him as a player (omg I actually don’t hate everyone and every move) and hope he continues to work out. 
 

I don’t care what other teams do. I care about what this team does. And right now it lacks difference makers. Hell, even Beane and McDermott said that. Said they need more explosive plays. Said they need more guys that are blue chip players. Guys like Harty, Sherfield, Epenessa, Hollins are not. 
 

im fully aware that we will head into camp with 90 players. Besides the point. Apparently I can’t say it enough. So I’ll try and explain it again so that you might understand. And I’ll do it like I’m talking to a 6 year old. 
 

-Rookie minimum in the NFL is $795k

- Vet minimum in the NFL is $915k

- we are expecting to be paying Hollins over $2m

 

i argue that we should have saved $1m+ that we would have paid Hollins over some scrub undrafted rookie for special teams, along with 4,5,6,7 (pick as many as you want) other guys. And actually bank that $1m+ savings per player, and actually go out and get someone that MIGHT Makena difference when it comes time to play real teams in the playoffs. 
 

any decent respected coach can train a monkey to stay in their lane on kickoffs. It’s a useless waste of roster spots to guys that can actually play a position in the NFL. 
 

guys like Neal, Hollins, Harty, Sherfield, Matakevich, Hamlin have no use on the team other than bodies. Replace them with the cheapest guys you can find and spend what little money you actually do have on guys that (again) MIGHT ACTUALLY MATTER. 

 

hows about we make a bet, what do you believe is a successful year for Hollins this season? I’m curious to know what you think. I bet he doesn’t get even 35 catches or 300 yards. Which imo, and based on the arguments that I’ve been making, is less than even a street free agent rookie could come up with in the same role. 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Gabe Davis had 27 regular season TD receptions and 6 more in the postseason while earning a total of just under $4 million.  How have so many convinced themselves that losing him is addition by subtraction?  

 

If Gabe Davis would continue to play for 4th-round rookie pay, he'd still on the Bills.  He signed a contract with the Jags for about $50 million for 3 years.  I really like Davis, but he's not a good enough WR to be worth that even if there wasn't a cap.  

 

2 hours ago, mrags said:

That’s cute. Are you as cute and witty in real life too? Or just your online teaching fantasies? 
 

Hollins is not good. Sherfield and Harty weren’t good either. And everyone talked about them like people are talking about Hollins now. And next year this time we’ll have cut Hollins because he sucked just as bad as his predecessors and here we will be, looking for actual talent at the position again. 

 

You still haven't provided the name of a single "better" WR who would also play ST for about the cost of Hollins or Sherfield/Harty.

 

FTR, I was a junior high teacher prior to going into IT where I spent 30 years designing and programming computer systems for educational and social services organizations, so I have lots of experience dealing with snot-nosed kids who think that they can bluff their way through their ignorance, whether in a classroom or production meeting, or online.

Edited March 14 by SoTier

[GASabresIUFan]

Davis made 2.742 last season (according to spotrac).  

 

I agree that spending anything on Hollins is a waste.  At best he'll be our 4th WR. His 251 yards last season were 18 more than Sherfield and Harty combined.  So that's a plus and he was solid for LV in 2022.  

 

The guy is a big target (6'4 220) and this may be a hint that they don't have much faith in Shorter who is also 6'4.  Beane, for reasons unknown, like to waste cap money on unproductive veteran receivers. 

 

From a roster standpoint, he is the "big receiver."  I guess we expect the speed receiver to come from the draft (Mitchell or Worthy?), because speed is not Hollins game (4.53 at the combine in 2017).

Edited March 14 by GASabresIUFan

[GASabresIUFan]

7 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

Great point re: replacing Neal at gunner. Hollins is a great gunner and absolutely will replace Neal.

 

Instead of thinking about WR depth chart, lets think about pass catchers in the Bills offense:

 

1. Diggs

2. Kincaid

3. 1st round / 2nd round draft pick

4. Shakir

5. Cook

6. Knox

7. Hollins / Shorter

8. Late draft or cheap FA

 

If we draft a legit #2 WR, we're all set. We don't need to spend another premium pick or premium contract on a WR that would probably be the 8th weapon in the passing game. Something to think about in different context!

 

Thank you.  Why waste any $ over the minimum on a guy who at best will be our 6th or 7th pass catching option.  

 

As someone who lives in the ATL and watches (unfortunately) many Falcons games, nothing but his size stands out about Hollins.  

Edited March 14 by GASabresIUFan

[SoonerBillsFan]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

Except I’m not the one that Beane fooled over and over again like the people including yourself seem to accept. Of course we have no choice in the matter anyway. 
 

every year it’s the same crap. We sign these players that someone comes on this and every other Bills message board or FB, or any other social media page and defend why it’s a good decision. It’s not. It wasn’t last year, or the year before that, or the year before that. The proof is that we don’t win it all. So technically I’m right. Can B word about me complaining all you want but in the end I was right. Because we signed guys like Harry and Sherfield and Hollins. Taking away cap space and roster spots from people that might make a difference. Instead we ended up with guys like AJ Klein trying to cover Travis Kelce in the biggest game of the year, which by the way, I was right about that too with Bernard, he was too small and would get banged up. And it happened at the worst possible time. But I said I was wrong about Bernard in the past. Love him as a player (omg I actually don’t hate everyone and every move) and hope he continues to work out. 
 

I don’t care what other teams do. I care about what this team does. And right now it lacks difference makers. Hell, even Beane and McDermott said that. Said they need more explosive plays. Said they need more guys that are blue chip players. Guys like Harty, Sherfield, Epenessa, Hollins are not. 
 

im fully aware that we will head into camp with 90 players. Besides the point. Apparently I can’t say it enough. So I’ll try and explain it again so that you might understand. And I’ll do it like I’m talking to a 6 year old. 
 

-Rookie minimum in the NFL is $795k

- Vet minimum in the NFL is $915k

- we are expecting to be paying Hollins over $2m

 

i argue that we should have saved $1m+ that we would have paid Hollins over some scrub undrafted rookie for special teams, along with 4,5,6,7 (pick as many as you want) other guys. And actually bank that $1m+ savings per player, and actually go out and get someone that MIGHT Makena difference when it comes time to play real teams in the playoffs. 
 

any decent respected coach can train a monkey to stay in their lane on kickoffs. It’s a useless waste of roster spots to guys that can actually play a position in the NFL. 
 

guys like Neal, Hollins, Harty, Sherfield, Matakevich, Hamlin have no use on the team other than bodies. Replace them with the cheapest guys you can find and spend what little money you actually do have on guys that (again) MIGHT ACTUALLY MATTER. 

 

hows about we make a bet, what do you believe is a successful year for Hollins this season? I’m curious to know what you think. I bet he doesn’t get even 35 catches or 300 yards. Which imo, and based on the arguments that I’ve been making, is less than even a street free agent rookie could come up with in the same role. 

I am with you 100% on this. His signing at the amount they gave him is Beane AGAIN reaching and hoping a WR will all of a sudden reach some mysterious untapped talent, by having Allen throw to him.  

[Radar]

20 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

We are so broke.  I hate Beane

I certainly don't hate him but don't put him at as high a level as many here do. I don't think he's managed the cap expertly.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 hours ago, mrags said:

Except I’m not the one that Beane fooled over and over again like the people including yourself seem to accept. Of course we have no choice in the matter anyway. 
 

every year it’s the same crap. We sign these players that someone comes on this and every other Bills message board or FB, or any other social media page and defend why it’s a good decision. It’s not. It wasn’t last year, or the year before that, or the year before that. The proof is that we don’t win it all. So technically I’m right. Can B word about me complaining all you want but in the end I was right. Because we signed guys like Harry and Sherfield and Hollins. Taking away cap space and roster spots from people that might make a difference. Instead we ended up with guys like AJ Klein trying to cover Travis Kelce in the biggest game of the year, which by the way, I was right about that too with Bernard, he was too small and would get banged up. And it happened at the worst possible time. But I said I was wrong about Bernard in the past. Love him as a player (omg I actually don’t hate everyone and every move) and hope he continues to work out. 
 

I don’t care what other teams do. I care about what this team does. And right now it lacks difference makers. Hell, even Beane and McDermott said that. Said they need more explosive plays. Said they need more guys that are blue chip players. Guys like Harty, Sherfield, Epenessa, Hollins are not. 
 

im fully aware that we will head into camp with 90 players. Besides the point. Apparently I can’t say it enough. So I’ll try and explain it again so that you might understand. And I’ll do it like I’m talking to a 6 year old. 
 

-Rookie minimum in the NFL is $795k

- Vet minimum in the NFL is $915k

- we are expecting to be paying Hollins over $2m

 

i argue that we should have saved $1m+ that we would have paid Hollins over some scrub undrafted rookie for special teams, along with 4,5,6,7 (pick as many as you want) other guys. And actually bank that $1m+ savings per player, and actually go out and get someone that MIGHT Makena difference when it comes time to play real teams in the playoffs. 
 

any decent respected coach can train a monkey to stay in their lane on kickoffs. It’s a useless waste of roster spots to guys that can actually play a position in the NFL. 
 

guys like Neal, Hollins, Harty, Sherfield, Matakevich, Hamlin have no use on the team other than bodies. Replace them with the cheapest guys you can find and spend what little money you actually do have on guys that (again) MIGHT ACTUALLY MATTER. 

 

hows about we make a bet, what do you believe is a successful year for Hollins this season? I’m curious to know what you think. I bet he doesn’t get even 35 catches or 300 yards. Which imo, and based on the arguments that I’ve been making, is less than even a street free agent rookie could come up with in the same role. 

 

Who is being fooled lol?  How extreme and dramatic do you get?  And I'm the 6 year old?

Everyone is saying this guy is a depth piece which he is.  

 

No it doesn't make you right.  What would make you right is you proving your strategy is successful.  Your 4-7 stringers are UDFA and anyone at the monkey intelligence level could play special teams.  So, tell me one team that employs that strategy in the history of the NFL.  

Not one team does or have ever done what you want the Bills to do.  Obviously every single GM in the history of the NFL believes you need veteran depth, including special teams.  But when the Bills don't your completely unrealistic strategy, you B word and whine like a 6 year old.

And the "I don't care what others teams do" statement is weak.  Especially with a strategy you're suggesting that no GM would ever do. 

 

There are 53 players on your roster.  46 on game days.  22 starters and they are your top contributors and not all your starters are good to solid...the Bills like all teams have weak starters.  Which means, most of your team isn't top or even average contributors.  Which is also why the majority of your teams salaries are players in the $1-$2 million dollar ranges.  Which finally means, every team has multiple Mack Hollins level players and salaries on their rosters.  But when the Bills do it, you lose your mind.  Do you not realize how completely unrealistic you're being?

 

If you want to say we don't have enough elite talent, yes, that's a solid argument.  If the Bills make this guy the #2, yeah that's a good reason to B word.  But to argue like a 6 year old about the Bills signing a Mack Hollins type of player when every single team in the history of the NFL has about a 1/3 of their roster with this level player, that's just incredibly stupid.  

 

Name one UDFA rookie last year that had 35 catches and 300 yards last year.  Name one.

 

Betting on a guy who I think is going to be at best our #5 WR?  Why in the world would I take that bet lol?  Are you thinking that I think he's our #2 or something?  Because after Diggs, Kincaid, Shakir, Knox and most likely a draft pick, those guys are going to pretty much all the targets.  What is the point of this bet?

Edited March 14 by Royale with Cheese

[Coldfronts]

old

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Brown Bease and Sanders were all pretty solid.  

 

So the long list would be...

Roberts - KR/PR which after seeing mckenzie attempt to do this i wasn't at all shocked they wanted someone there who could i dunno... catch the ball on the return.  2yr 4.6M.  

Kumerow - Less than 1M per year and essentially on a rookie deal.  Not sure why i should care on his age when he's essentially the same price as anyone else.  I also don't think having him prohibited the team from adding other players.  

Crowder - Got hurt.  Came off a decent couple seasons.  1yr 2M.  Like 0 risk, and was a bease replacement.

Harty - Returner.  Overpay.  Didn't work out.  Had a built in out in his contract.

Sherfield - 1.7M is again nothing.  750k dead cap had he been beaten out by a rookie.  

 

Harty was the only one in the group of "bums" that they spent any money on.  And in 2023 his AAV was still lower than what they spent on brown and bease in 2019, and Sanders in 2021.  

 

The long list is this:

 

Benjamin, Kerley, Andre Holmes, Deonte Thompson, Robert Foster, McKenzie, Terrell Pryor (lol), Duke Williams, Kumerow, Emanuel Sanders, Crowder, Brown/Beasley (again!!), Tanner Gentry, Harty, Sherfield....

 

It isn't about how much money was NOT spend on these guys (they are all bottom salary feeders anywhere)--it's that with  a roster really in need of WR help perennially, this is the parade that briefly passed through the locker room.  They were low/zero impact signings who were usually quickly dumped..  

 

Beasley and Brown were solid pickups.  Beasley/Brown 2.0 midseason was beyond bizarre--a desperation move by a GM still struggling to find ball catching weapons.  

 

Now it seems the Bills are going all in on the draft , hoping for a hit at WR, to solve this serious and chronic gap.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

The long list is this:

 

Benjamin, Kerley, Andre Holmes, Deonte Thompson, Robert Foster, McKenzie, Terrell Pryor (lol), Duke Williams, Kumerow, Emanuel Sanders, Crowder, Brown/Beasley (again!!), Tanner Gentry, Harty, Sherfield....

 

It isn't about how much money was NOT spend on these guys (they are all bottom salary feeders anywhere)--it's that with  a roster really in need of WR help perennially, this is the parade that briefly passed through the locker room.  They were low/zero impact signings who were usually quickly dumped..  

 

Beasley and Brown were solid pickups.  Beasley/Brown 2.0 midseason was beyond bizarre--a desperation move by a GM still struggling to find ball catching weapons.  

 

Now it seems the Bills are going all in on the draft , hoping for a hit at WR, to solve this serious and chronic gap.

 

 

 

I get what you're saying - but they used a 1st round pick to acquire diggs whos been great here.  They drafted gabe in the 4th, and right wrong or indifferent he scored a ton of TDs here and split time with brown and sanders.  Shakir started slowly but he's becoming a weapon.  Knox was a mid round pick whos become a solid tight end.  They used a 1st on a move TE last year. 

 

Back of the roster moves for kumerows hollins and sherfields doesn't change how you approach a draft or roster construction imo.  They are there for depth and special teams.  Honestly im glad we moved on from some of the guys we had - neal felt like a penalty machine last year, i don't recall sherfield making any impact plays on special teams let alone offense (though i feel like he was interfered with more than anyone on a per target basis and got 0 calls), and matakevich cost too much money to be jumped on the depth chart by street free agents from the PS, even as a captain i don't think you can carry a player like that with larger cap hits at the top of the roster. 

 

If there is potential that adding a hollins can improve the special teams unit, i'm for it.  The unit was bad in 2023 - bass was bad (be it holding, yips, blocking, snapping, whatever), martin struggled for long stretches, multiple return TDs (jets one cost us a game, and the patriots opened with another), fumbles by harty on returns, like no kick return game to speak of.  Harty did break off one TD at a huge time, but if you take out the 96 yard TD his average was right around the same as mckenzie and he twice muffed kicks - so improvements can be made there too.  

[JaCrispy]

10 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I am not trying to make it grow.  I have a feeling that you can’t see it anymore and you don’t even know what it looks like now.

 

People, including myself have made very logical arguments but you’re one of those guys that everyone is wrong and you are always right.  You against the world right?  

 

This time of the year last year, what was your opinion on Terrell Bernard?  

I stopped reading after the highlighted part…I don’t even wanna begin to know what you are talking about…😉

[GASabresIUFan]

I read on CBSsports last night an article saying what a good signing this was.  That Hollins would be the replacement for Davis and he'd finally have an elite QB throwing to him.  I almost choked on the glass of water I was drinking.

 

I went to post the article here, but CBS has taken it down.  I guess an editorial review decided that the author's suspect conclusions weren't worthy of remaining online.

[without a drought]

The Bills have 11 picks, they need to double down on wr.

 

They selected Chris Burkett in the 2nd before selecting Andre Reed in the 4th.

 

They also took James Hardy in the 2nd before taking Stevie Johnson in the 7th.

 

2 WRs by the end of the 4th would increase the odds of having someone ready to step in and contribute on the outside.

 

 

[BeastMaster]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I read on CBSsports last night an article saying what a good signing this was.  That Hollins would be the replacement for Davis and he'd finally have an elite QB throwing to him.  I almost choked on the glass of water I was drinking.

 

I went to post the article here, but CBS has taken it down.  I guess an editorial review decided that the author's suspect conclusions weren't worthy of remaining online.

I honestly think Mack Hollins is a Gabe Davis level player, and that if Mack was opposite Diggs last season he would've put up similar numbers. 

 

I also would bet that he catches at least one of those two deep balls Sherfield dropped against KC, and maybe he catches them both.

 

Dude is an upgrade on Sherfield, and is a big target with good hands to go along with similar speed and agility as Davis. 

 

That being said, I want and expect the Bills to draft either Keon Coleman or Xavier Legette and Hollins can battle for reps

[Bruffalo]

3 minutes ago, without a drought said:

The Bills have 11 picks, they need to double down on wr.

 

They selected Chris Burkett in the 2nd before selecting Andre Reed in the 4th.

 

They also took James Hardy in the 2nd before taking Stevie Johnson in the 7th.

 

2 WRs by the end of the 4th would increase the odds of having someone ready to step in and contribute on the outside.

 

 

I know it's sort of crazy strategy wise, but I hope there's an appetite in the Bills draft room for drafting a R1 WR and then doing it again in R2. 

 

We did it with EDGE a few years ago and it didn't work out, but it feels way more necessary with WR honestly.  

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I get what you're saying - but they used a 1st round pick to acquire diggs whos been great here.  They drafted gabe in the 4th, and right wrong or indifferent he scored a ton of TDs here and split time with brown and sanders.  Shakir started slowly but he's becoming a weapon.  Knox was a mid round pick whos become a solid tight end.  They used a 1st on a move TE last year. 

 

Back of the roster moves for kumerows hollins and sherfields doesn't change how you approach a draft or roster construction imo.  They are there for depth and special teams.  Honestly im glad we moved on from some of the guys we had - neal felt like a penalty machine last year, i don't recall sherfield making any impact plays on special teams let alone offense (though i feel like he was interfered with more than anyone on a per target basis and got 0 calls), and matakevich cost too much money to be jumped on the depth chart by street free agents from the PS, even as a captain i don't think you can carry a player like that with larger cap hits at the top of the roster. 

 

If there is potential that adding a hollins can improve the special teams unit, i'm for it.  The unit was bad in 2023 - bass was bad (be it holding, yips, blocking, snapping, whatever), martin struggled for long stretches, multiple return TDs (jets one cost us a game, and the patriots opened with another), fumbles by harty on returns, like no kick return game to speak of.  Harty did break off one TD at a huge time, but if you take out the 96 yard TD his average was right around the same as mckenzie and he twice muffed kicks - so improvements can be made there too.  

 

you can't build a roster by cycling bottom tier/end of career guys who are gone after contributing little for 1 or 2 years....over and over.

 

Knox isn't progressing at this point. Kincaid could be a stud---if Brady would send him for other than 4 yard sideline dump offs. Shakir may be decent as a 3.  Davis (he only split time with Brown for a year and Crowder for a year) took a beating on this board, but nearly all of his catches in 4 years were 1st downs or TDs.  Now he's gone and the Bills will have to draft his replacement as none of the guys they have brought in are anywhere close to that. 

 

 

It's 2024.  Other than the Diggs trade forever ago (and to say he's lost a step is to say Death Valley is really hot), what do the Bills have to show for all of these transient moves at WR?

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Thank you.  Why waste any $ over the minimum on a guy who at best will be our 6th or 7th pass catching option.  

 

As someone who lives in the ATL and watches (unfortunately) many Falcons games, nothing but his size stands out about Hollins.  

But that one thing that stands out is something that McBeane covets, blocking.  Hollins a one of the better run blocking WRs in the league.  I think he’ll play more than Sherfield did last season while also being more productive.  I see him playing a role in our heavy run blocking sets and being a decent weapon out of play action in those sets. 
 

I currently see him as WR5 but wouldn’t be surprised if he got WR4 reps over a WR not taken in rd 1.  Not because I think he’s a good WR, but because I think he can contribute in other ways, ie blocking in the short passing game and run game.  
 

dude was stuck with the worst QB situation last season and in an offense predicated on the run. I think he’s closer to the 2022 version of Mack Hollins than he is the 2023 version.  His tape isn’t bad.  

[LABILLBACKER]

How does Mack Hollins have 24 pages?

[BeastMaster]

34 minutes ago, NewEra said:

But that one thing that stands out is something that McBeane covets, blocking.  Hollins a one of the better run blocking WRs in the league.  I think he’ll play more than Sherfield did last season while also being more productive.  I see him playing a role in our heavy run blocking sets and being a decent weapon out of play action in those sets. 
 

I currently see him as WR5 but wouldn’t be surprised if he got WR4 reps over a WR not taken in rd 1.  Not because I think he’s a good WR, but because I think he can contribute in other ways, ie blocking in the short passing game and run game.  
 

dude was stuck with the worst QB situation last season and in an offense predicated on the run. I think he’s closer to the 2022 version of Mack Hollins than he is the 2023 version.  His tape isn’t bad.  

There's really nothing about Hollins that indicates that he won't be a much better option than the guys we've brought in these past few seasons. His measurables are better than Davis', and he's shown to have better hands. And as you stated, he was in a terrible offense last season, but was pretty productive in the Raiders offense the prior year. A year where he helped Josh Jacobs lead the league in rushing and had 700 yards receiving and four TD's. He will have a much better QB and offense here than any other of his stops, so I like his chances to make an impact.

 

He will be the number four receiver, and he will be involved in the offense. 

[SWATeam]

41 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

How does Mack Hollins have 24 pages?

Because we all feel the need to tell everyone he's not a great player and the signing of a back end of the roster/special teams contributor is an indictment on the franchise.

[mrags]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Who is being fooled lol?  How extreme and dramatic do you get?  And I'm the 6 year old?

Everyone is saying this guy is a depth piece which he is.  

 

No it doesn't make you right.  What would make you right is you proving your strategy is successful.  Your 4-7 stringers are UDFA and anyone at the monkey intelligence level could play special teams.  So, tell me one team that employs that strategy in the history of the NFL.  

Not one team does or have ever done what you want the Bills to do.  Obviously every single GM in the history of the NFL believes you need veteran depth, including special teams.  But when the Bills don't your completely unrealistic strategy, you B word and whine like a 6 year old.

And the "I don't care what others teams do" statement is weak.  Especially with a strategy you're suggesting that no GM would ever do. 

 

There are 53 players on your roster.  46 on game days.  22 starters and they are your top contributors and not all your starters are good to solid...the Bills like all teams have weak starters.  Which means, most of your team isn't top or even average contributors.  Which is also why the majority of your teams salaries are players in the $1-$2 million dollar ranges.  Which finally means, every team has multiple Mack Hollins level players and salaries on their rosters.  But when the Bills do it, you lose your mind.  Do you not realize how completely unrealistic you're being?

 

If you want to say we don't have enough elite talent, yes, that's a solid argument.  If the Bills make this guy the #2, yeah that's a good reason to B word.  But to argue like a 6 year old about the Bills signing a Mack Hollins type of player when every single team in the history of the NFL has about a 1/3 of their roster with this level player, that's just incredibly stupid.  

 

Name one UDFA rookie last year that had 35 catches and 300 yards last year.  Name one.

 

Betting on a guy who I think is going to be at best our #5 WR?  Why in the world would I take that bet lol?  Are you thinking that I think he's our #2 or something?  Because after Diggs, Kincaid, Shakir, Knox and most likely a draft pick, those guys are going to pretty much all the targets.  What is the point of this bet?

I’m done with you. 

[Royale with Cheese]

52 minutes ago, mrags said:

I’m done with you. 

 

Is it because you made the statement that a rookie UDFA could put up 300 yards and 35 catches when not a single one did it last year?

Or is it because you can't come up with a team in which all their back end roster depth is all UDFA and they are more intelligent than monkeys?

 

Interesting that you say "any respectable coach could get monkeys to stay in their lanes on a kickoff...."

I guess Wade Phillips wasn't a respectable coach.

 

 

Edited March 14 by Royale with Cheese

[WickedGame]

19 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Would you take DK Metcalf? Because he was considered to be only a deep/go route type before the draft. I'm considering Legette at 28 more and more. He's shown he can be a deep threat, contested catch guy and a RAC guy. Keon Coleman is my #2 at 28. Mike Williams type of receiver

I don’t dislike Legette, but I have some concerns. Body type, downfield, contested catches, etc. are intriguing. But limited career production and some inconsistency/drops. I’d like him more as a 2nd rounder. 

[DrDawkinstein]

24 pages on WR5/Trent Sherfield's replacement? Gotta love the offseason.

 

Hollins should be our ST ace. Apparently, when he was in Philly he even complained about having to play WR when all he wanted to focus on was Special Teams.

 

The issue last year with Sherfield was instead of keeping him to his best suited role, the Bills forced him to step in for Diggs. Sherfield is no replacement for Diggs. Even in spot action. Neither is Hollins. All players mentioned know this. The coaches should know it too.

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

How does Mack Hollins have 24 pages?

Because we have literally signed only him and Morrow. WGR has had hours sent discussing him as well. This is a move in most other places would be barely noticed. We dont talk about KJ Hamler and I dont see much difference in terms of level of player. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

24 pages on WR5/Trent Sherfield's replacement? Gotta love the offseason.

 

Hollins should be our ST ace. Apparently, when he was in Philly he even complained about having to play WR when all he wanted to focus on was Special Teams.

 

The issue last year with Sherfield was instead of keeping him to his best suited role, the Bills forced him to step in for Diggs. Sherfield is no replacement for Diggs. Even in spot action. Neither is Hollins. All players mentioned know this. The coaches should know it too.

“I’ll never want to be a guy that gives up special teams because I want to play on offense,” Hollins said on Thursday after practice at NovaCare Complex. “If I can’t play both, my mindset is that I just play teams. But I think I’m capable of playing both, I played both last week and I’m gonna give my all in either one. If I’m going to drop off in one of them, it’ll be offense and I’ll go play special teams harder.” Hollins called himself a “weird guy” on Thursday, though that had more to do with his affinity for snakes and some other quirks. But in the realm of receivers, he’s certainly unique.
 

 

[SCBills]

It's only a matter of time before we get the Josh Allen asking for help and Beane responding with "best I can do is Mack Hollins" meme. 

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

“I’ll never want to be a guy that gives up special teams because I want to play on offense,” Hollins said on Thursday after practice at NovaCare Complex. “If I can’t play both, my mindset is that I just play teams. But I think I’m capable of playing both, I played both last week and I’m gonna give my all in either one. If I’m going to drop off in one of them, it’ll be offense and I’ll go play special teams harder.” Hollins called himself a “weird guy” on Thursday, though that had more to do with his affinity for snakes and some other quirks. But in the realm of receivers, he’s certainly unique.
 

 

 

But, does he believe in space, and planets and stuff???  I think that would be a good start. 

[mrags]

52 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Is it because you made the statement that a rookie UDFA could put up 300 yards and 35 catches when not a single one did it last year?

Or is it because you can't come up with a team in which all their back end roster depth is all UDFA and they are more intelligent than monkeys?

 

Interesting that you say "any respectable coach could get monkeys to stay in their lanes on a kickoff...."

I guess Wade Phillips wasn't a respectable coach.

 

 

I’m done with you. 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

How does Mack Hollins have 24 pages?

 

Because the Buffalo Bills continue to waste money the little cap space and money they have on things that the Bills don’t need instead of addressing the secondary needs on the Bills. Plus he isn’t that good why bother dime a dozen UFL level player in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

 

Because the Buffalo Bills continue to waste money the little cap space and money they have on things that the Bills don’t need instead of addressing the secondary needs on the Bills. Plus he isn’t that good why bother dime a dozen UFL level player in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

Should we leave some roster spots open? Would that make you happier? 

 

They are doing what they do every year at this time, filling holes before the draft. They are not going to be All Pros, but every roster has guys like this. We don’t play a meaningful game until next fall. A lot will happen before then. 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Should we leave some roster spots open? Would that make you happier? 

 

They are doing what they do every year at this time, filling holes before the draft. They are not going to be All Pros, but every roster has guys like this. We don’t play a meaningful game until next fall. A lot will happen before then. 

 

The Bills FO has brought this criticism on themselves.  They've been of the philosophy that a strong team across the board with depth can win a Super Bowl.  Because of that, we've missed swings that "maybe" could have lead to a different outcome.  See last year, spending money on guys like Hines, Matakevich, Poyer.. when maybe Hopkins is what we needed to make a play in the big moment.  

 

It's scar tissue.  Some of us would rather backfill with the boatload of Day 3 picks we have and get one big piece.. but we were also backed into a corner of our own making where Jones and Epenesa were necessity re-signings. 

[Rocky Landing]

16 hours ago, Billl said:

Gabe Davis had 27 regular season TD receptions and 6 more in the postseason while earning a total of just under $4 million.  How have so many convinced themselves that losing him is addition by subtraction?  

The Jags just signed Davis to a three-year, $39M contract. If the Bills had decided to retain him, and pay him anywhere near that, I can well imagine this board would hit the ceiling. But nobody should mistake Hollins for Davis's replacement. He's likely a situational WR, and STer. If he makes the 53, and actually gets his max payment of $3M, it means he worked out.

[Niagara Dude]

21 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

And you know this, how?

Mcdermott wants to be a ground and pound team and will end up wasting Allen's prime years trying to play this way. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

24 pages on WR5/Trent Sherfield's replacement? Gotta love the offseason.

 

Hollins should be our ST ace. Apparently, when he was in Philly he even complained about having to play WR when all he wanted to focus on was Special Teams.

 

The issue last year with Sherfield was instead of keeping him to his best suited role, the Bills forced him to step in for Diggs. Sherfield is no replacement for Diggs. Even in spot action. Neither is Hollins. All players mentioned know this. The coaches should know it too.

 

I know.

 

Hollins is not the only WR we are going to add.  They will add another one via draft or squeeze some money in FA....they are not leaving a hole at #2 WR.

2 hours ago, mrags said:

I’m done with you. 

 

Is it because the 1999 Buffalo Bills special teams were dumber than monkeys?

Edited March 14 by Royale with Cheese

[Royale with Cheese]

30 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Mcdermott wants to be a ground and pound team and will end up wasting Allen's prime years trying to play this way. 

 

He does not want to be a ground and pound team.

 

Josh Allen since 2019 when he became the true starter, is 3rd in most passing attempts.  Only Goff and Mahomes have more.

And since the Bills have the biggest point differential in the last few years, we haven't thrown the ball in many games in the second half because we are up by 3 scores.

 

McDermott is one of the most pass happy coaches in the league.  The statistics prove it.

[Chandler#81]