Should the Bills trade up for their own “Julio Jones”

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Unless there’s a crazy run on receivers and we have to jump into the early 20s I honestly think the bills can sit tight and get their future wide receiver number one.

[Cash]

How do you know if you’re trading up for Julio Jones or Sammy Watkins? 

[Dr. Who]

11 minutes ago, Cash said:

How do you know if you’re trading up for Julio Jones or Sammy Watkins? 

Have to ask the fella if he believes the earth is flat.

[Warriorspikes51]

54 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Joe Brady coached a couple real good ones at LSU in Chase and Jefferson. He needs to be part of the WR conversation for sure.  

we’ll take both LSU WR’s that are going in the 1st. Please and thank you NFL

[FireChans]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Oh, and it's generally accepted that the Julio Jones trade was a success.

 

And that's questionable. There's a very legitimate argument that it was a failure.

 

Julio is a terrific player, there can be no reasonable argument against that. But did they give up too much?

 

In 2010, Atlanta went 13-3. They felt they were only a player or two away and made the Julio trade.

 

The next year they went 10-6, despite Julio putting up more than 900 yards. The year after that, 13-3. The year after that, 4-12. That was followed by 6-10, 8-8 and finally the one year they made the Super Bowl but lost to the Patriots in Jones' sixth year. A lot of their problems in those years came down to a lack of good players ... players who might have been on the team if not for the Julio trade.

 

If they win that Super Bowl, the argument's over. But they didn't. Lombardis justify just about any tactic. But they lost.

 

Was the difference between Julio Jones and a replacement guy acquired after #27 or in a trade worth all they gave away?

 

Questionable.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, not agreeing with me makes plenty of sense a pretty fair number of times.

 

But calling Beane "horrible" is disagreeing with anyone with a brain cell count in the triple digits or above. It's dumb.

Imo, saying if they won the Super Bowl, it was a good tactic is a very simplistic and again, imo, wrong way to evaluate personnel decisions.

 

The Chiefs drafted CEH in the first and went to two SB’s and won one, potentially two, while he was on the team. Does that make drafting him the right decision? I don’t think so.

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well the curse of the Bambino........as @FireChans compared this too........wasn't a curse because it prevented the Red Sox from winning the World Series 26 more times between 1918 and 2004............it was that it would soon elevate a league rival to seemingly previously unattainable championship status and the Red Sox then failed to win a WS for the rest of Ruth's career and another 86 years thereafter in total.

 

Whether Mahomes and the Bills then went to 6 straight conference title games and 4 Super Bowls in that span isn't the point.

 

One SB appearance alone would have trumped any of the Bills accomplishments since.

 

And to the idea that Mahomes wouldn't have been great in Buffalo...........how can anyone say that after Josh Allen basically evolved from a scattershot 52% passer into one of the best in the league under this regime?   That argument that Mahomes wouldn't have been able to be great in Buffalo has never held any water.

 

Mahomes was a much closer to finished product than Allen.   Andy Reid and the Chiefs weren't magicians.   Reid had never won a SB in nearly 20 seasons as a HC and the fans there were antsy about his playoff choke jobs since taking over.   His seat there was warm.  And at that point and the Chiefs organization was almost 50 years since their only prior SB win.   

 

 

 

 

Bingo. 
 

The debate shouldn’t be “do we win 3 Superbowls and go to 6 AFCCG games with Mahomes instead of Allen?”

 

The debate is “if Sean McDermott doesn’t make the trade to give the Chiefs Mahomes, and he either selects him or still takes Allen the next year, are the Bills more successful than we have been currently?”

 

The answer is overwhelmingly, yes.

[Goin Breakdown]

Ok NOW we're going to urgently find a WR?  Now that we're in Cap hell?  We need to draft one or two. I just don't have faith that the coaches would play them. I'd like to see a Green Bay approach and send them out there and get experience. First drop or fumbleCD will bench the guys for 4 weeks. 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Ok NOW we're going to urgently find a WR?  Now that we're in Cap hell?  We need to draft one or two. I just don't have faith that the coaches would play them. I'd like to see a Green Bay approach and send them out there and get experience. First drop or fumbleCD will bench the guys for 4 weeks. 

Gabe Davis, a fourth round draft pick, had 10 games of over 60% of offensive snaps as a rookie. 12 games if you go down to 59% of snaps.

 

Put another way, as a rookie, he had 1 game where he played less than 40% of offensive snaps.

 

So where does this criticism come from?

[Coldfronts]

with all the injuries the Biils have every season they need as many warm bodies from the draft they can get

[mushypeaches]

Holy crap, have people not learned 10 years after Sammy Watkins?

 

I don't care how good you think the WR is - you don't trade future #1 picks for anyone other than a QB

That was true then, it's true now, and it will still be true in 10 more years.

[KOKBILLS]

Funny how it's Julio Jones and not Sammy Watkins... 

[DrDawkinstein]

The only way I can justify a trade up for a WR is if it's in the 2nd round.

 

Say a defensive guy we LOVE falls to us at 28. We may go defense there, and then I can see Beane moving up as high as he can in the 2nd to get whoever is still there.

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well the curse of the Bambino........as @FireChans compared this too........wasn't a curse because it prevented the Red Sox from winning the World Series 26 more times between 1918 and 2004............it was that it would soon elevate a league rival to seemingly previously unattainable championship status and the Red Sox then failed to win a WS for the rest of Ruth's career and another 86 years thereafter in total.

 

Whether Mahomes and the Bills then went to 6 straight conference title games and 4 Super Bowls in that span isn't the point.

 

One SB appearance alone would have trumped any of the Bills accomplishments since.

 

And to the idea that Mahomes wouldn't have been great in Buffalo...........how can anyone say that after Josh Allen basically evolved from a scattershot 52% passer into one of the best in the league under this regime?   That argument that Mahomes wouldn't have been able to be great in Buffalo has never held any water.

 

Mahomes was a much closer to finished product than Allen.   Andy Reid and the Chiefs weren't magicians.   Reid had never won a SB in nearly 20 seasons as a HC and the fans there were antsy about his playoff choke jobs since taking over.   His seat there was warm.  And at that point and the Chiefs organization was almost 50 years since their only prior SB win.   

 

 

 

 

 

Mahomes entered the league with a load of talent, but also awful habits of chucking the ball up into coverage and bailing out the back of the pocket under pressure, etc. Never operated under center, chaotic footwork, blah blah. He needed that redshirt season to put a more composed product on the field once he got his shot. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

23 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The Bills need to restock the defense.

Yep, this should be Beane's number one priority.

We're banged up and getting old on defense. We all saw how EASY it is for the opposing team to score on us especially Mahomes and Kelce today.

 

We will still get a top flight WR somewhere. Beane has to trade for MORE picks, not TRADE UP for a WR.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Mahomes entered the league with a load of talent, but also awful habits of chucking the ball up into coverage and bailing out the back of the pocket under pressure, etc. Never operated under center, chaotic footwork, blah blah. He needed that redshirt season to put a more composed product on the field once he got his shot. 

 

 

 

I don't see where that counters any point I made.    It's a straw man because I never said there weren't questions with Mahomes.   They were just minor concerns given his incredible talent.   And proved to be so.  

 

Mahomes threw for almost 10,000 yards and 77 TD's in his 2 full seasons as a starter at Texas Tech.  Allen was far more raw and far less accomplished with all of the very same concerns and then some.   They chose him 7th overall after passing on Mahomes.

 

Allen becoming a top QB from the place he started is a thing of legend in the scouting community.   Which is why it's just laughable that people think Mahomes wouldn't have become great in Buffalo.    

[billsfan_34]

On 2/3/2024 at 2:35 PM, Maynard said:

I’m not really sure what the answer is. I’d love to have Odunze here though. 

Legette please

[Billzgobowlin]

If Atlanta would have won the super bowl I would say this thought has sound logic but a WR by itself with the necessary capital to get there does not make sense

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Mahomes entered the league with a load of talent, but also awful habits of chucking the ball up into coverage and bailing out the back of the pocket under pressure, etc. Never operated under center, chaotic footwork, blah blah. He needed that redshirt season to put a more composed product on the field once he got his shot. 

Was it a good move to give him to a team with an established franchise QB to sit behind and a bunch of underpaid future hall of famers in our conference then?

[Meatloaf63]

I not only trade up, I reach into next year to fix our problems without destroying the cap further, and work to get out of cap hell while still improving the team.

[Goin Breakdown]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Gabe Davis, a fourth round draft pick, had 10 games of over 60% of offensive snaps as a rookie. 12 games if you go down to 59% of snaps.

 

Put another way, as a rookie, he had 1 game where he played less than 40% of offensive snaps.

 

So where does this criticism come from?

I get it. 35 catches and 7tds. Good red zone guy,  blocker and a need. Gabe, to me, is a little bit of an outlier. So you may not like my answer (you may idk) but I'm looking at guys like cook, yep he was behind Singletary, shakir to a good degree and Kincaid (yes I understand that Kincaid was somewhat historical) but how many times did we see cook benched for fumbling when other fumbled and still played?  How often did we see shinier make plays with the limited opportunity and wonder why he wasn't ever given more chances?  Kincaid was used what around week 5 or so and then would get plays at the beginning of a game and then we wouldn't see home the rest of the game. The dude could have been used way more and succeeded. I don't have all the answers. It's an eye thing. It's also a thing that many have talked about so I in ow I'm not alone when I just think that Buffalo is slow to get their rookie skill guys playing. I hope that clears up where I'm coming from be it correct on my part or not. Go Bills!....next year 

[Xwnyer]

Use your draft picks for WR, DT,safety,Center, Cb get young and fast

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I get it. 35 catches and 7tds. Good red zone guy,  blocker and a need. Gabe, to me, is a little bit of an outlier. So you may not like my answer (you may idk) but I'm looking at guys like cook, yep he was behind Singletary, shakir to a good degree and Kincaid (yes I understand that Kincaid was somewhat historical) but how many times did we see cook benched for fumbling when other fumbled and still played?  How often did we see shinier make plays with the limited opportunity and wonder why he wasn't ever given more chances?  Kincaid was used what around week 5 or so and then would get plays at the beginning of a game and then we wouldn't see home the rest of the game. The dude could have been used way more and succeeded. I don't have all the answers. It's an eye thing. It's also a thing that many have talked about so I in ow I'm not alone when I just think that Buffalo is slow to get their rookie skill guys playing. I hope that clears up where I'm coming from be it correct on my part or not. Go Bills!....next year 

You’re forgetting a lot of players. Torrence started every game. Tre started every game as a rookie. Singletary started every game as a rookie. Rousseau played a ton as a rookie. Hell, even Cody Ford played a ton.
 

Really Kincaid kinda faded down the stretch so he probably did need to work his way in a bit. And Cook couldn’t pass pro at all last year, and still wasn’t great at it which limited his opportunities. Plus we fired the OC who was keeping Shakir on the bench. 
 

Idk, I think if the Bills draft a WR in the first, they will play a really heavy role, unless they are awful.

[DCofNC]

8 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

The 49ers have a good pair in Samel and Ayuik. Toss in CMC the most complete RB in the NFL.

They have a stellar all around team, a great D, OL, TE, etc.  that’s what a championship team looks like, and doing it with a 2nd year nobody from no where QB.  If they had Allen, my Gawd.

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

You’re forgetting a lot of players. Torrence started every game. Tre started every game as a rookie. Singletary started every game as a rookie. Rousseau played a ton as a rookie. Hell, even Cody Ford played a ton.
 

Really Kincaid kinda faded down the stretch so he probably did need to work his way in a bit. And Cook couldn’t pass pro at all last year, and still wasn’t great at it which limited his opportunities. Plus we fired the OC who was keeping Shakir on the bench. 
 

Idk, I think if the Bills draft a WR in the first, they will play a really heavy role, unless they are awful.

Cool makes sense that is true. I do like that shakir got his snaps this year. Hoping for great things in year 3. But yeah. The trenches and defensive players do get thrown out there as rookies.

I'd  love to see a WR or two get drafted and play heavy. That's for sure. 

[27yanks]

Trade down and beef up Safety and LB corps

[27yanks]

(PIPE DREAM) might as well have some fun before Pitchers and catchers hit Florida;

No trade down like this:  Traded This years 1st/2025 2nd  and Next Years 1st for bevy of 3's that could have impact

 

61. Ja' Lynn Polk  WR Washington                                                                       

66. D.J. James  CB Auburn

71. James Williams S Miami (FL)

73. Jaden Hicks S Washington State

90. Trevin Wallace LB Kentucky

92. Payton Wilson LB NC State

99. Blake Fisher OT Notre Dame

104. Anthony Belton OT NC State

128. Brenden Rice WR USC

158. Tyler Davis DT Clemson

161. Fabien Lovett DT Florida State

197. Andrew Raym OC Oklahoma

201. Erick All TE Iowa

205. Tarheeb Still CB Maryland

245. Dominique Hampton S Washington

[Aussie Joe]

4 hours ago, 27yanks said:

(PIPE DREAM) might as well have some fun before Pitchers and catchers hit Florida;

No trade down like this:  Traded This years 1st/2025 2nd  and Next Years 1st for bevy of 3's that could have impact

 

                                                           

Love a good bevy 

[Mr. WEO]

On 2/3/2024 at 6:08 PM, Augie said:

 

Now I’m just chuckling. Thanks. I’m leaving to see Kathleen Madigan in a few minutes, and you are like a Pre-warm up act. 

 

You can tear up ANYONE if you want to point out the players a GM passed over. Montana went in the third round, Brady in the 6th. That is the weakest approach I see on this board. 

 

.

 

That's not what I'm doing (see below), hope you enjoyed that show.

 

On 2/3/2024 at 6:25 PM, JGMcD2 said:

Do you expect to find a WR1 on Day 3? 

It doesn’t mean he lacks the aptitude for evaluating them. Your statement looks stupid considering those “two guys in 7 years” have been pretty good relative to their draft position. 

 

 

When WR is chronically a position of need and it's not addressed in the draft...it's because the GM is very good at assessing the WR position?  He just can't tell when he needs one?

 

How does that make sense.

 

And 2 guys in 7 years isn't much of a track record--especially if the better one is likely gone and the other has 65 targets in 2 years.

 

 

 

[JGMcD2]

27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That's not what I'm doing (see below), hope you enjoyed that show.

 

 

When WR is chronically a position of need and it's not addressed in the draft...it's because the GM is very good at assessing the WR position?  He just can't tell when he needs one?

 

How does that make sense.

 

And 2 guys in 7 years isn't much of a track record--especially if the better one is likely gone and the other has 65 targets in 2 years.

 

 

 

You're moving the goalposts... color me surprised. Your original quote, in the context of the draft, was that "Beane has shown no aptitude for evaluating WR talent."

 

Now you're shifting to his ability to assess the WR position and when he needs one, which factors in all facets of roster constructions. 

[SWATeam]

12 hours ago, DCofNC said:

They have a stellar all around team, a great D, OL, TE, etc.  that’s what a championship team looks like, and doing it with a 2nd year nobody from no where QB.  If they had Allen, my Gawd.

They are starting Jon Feliciano 

[DCofNC]

20 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

They are starting Jon Feliciano 

And he’s playing well

[Gregg]

On 2/3/2024 at 2:26 PM, boyst said:

If we trade up it'll be MHJ. He's the best prospect in 20 years. 

 

If the Bears, Commanders, Patriots all take QB's like many of the "experts" predict then MHJ is a lock to be taken by the Cardinals at #4. 

[SWATeam]

10 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

And he’s playing well

I think that Oline is a weakness and is going to get dominated by Chris Jones and company, unfortunately.

 

They have one all timer in Trent Williams and even he's been nicked up.

[Mr. WEO]

47 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

You're moving the goalposts... color me surprised. Your original quote, in the context of the draft, was that "Beane has shown no aptitude for evaluating WR talent."

 

Now you're shifting to his ability to assess the WR position and when he needs one, which factors in all facets of roster constructions. 

 

Goal posts not moved. no obvious talent for evaluating a position of significant need, category WR.  If you can't diagnose the problem, you probably are not very good at solving the problem, logic dictates.

 

The roster needed and needs WRs...tell me, if they let Davis walk, how many Beane drafted WRs (all time) are still on the roster?

 

Beane has treated the WR draft as an afterthought, relying instead on an endless stream of FA WRs parading through for short stints in Buffalo on their way out of the league.  

[boyst]

35 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

If the Bears, Commanders, Patriots all take QB's like many of the "experts" predict then MHJ is a lock to be taken by the Cardinals at #4. 

they have so many needs it's hard to imagine what they will do but they'd be foolish to pass on him.

[Freddie's Dead]

You need a "depends on the cost" option.  I'm all for it, but any future #1s are off the table.  Not sure how far I can move up with 2s and 3s.

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

You need a "depends on the cost" option.  I'm all for it, but any future #1s are off the table.  Not sure how far I can move up with 2s and 3s.

the cost to move to 4 might be worth it.

[Orlando Tim]

8 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

You need a "depends on the cost" option.  I'm all for it, but any future #1s are off the table.  Not sure how far I can move up with 2s and 3s.

To piggy back on your thought- I see a bunch of prediction that Keon Coleman will be available in the 20's but gone before us, that guy I would swap firsts and give up a second rounder to get, he is a beast. If he ends up in Cincinnati or KC he is gonna be a thorn in our side in the future.

[Gregg]

8 minutes ago, boyst said:

the cost to move to 4 might be worth it.

 

What can the Bills offer. There 1st RD pick is #28. That is basically a very good 2nd round pick. Offering 2's and 3's won't get them to #4. They have to be careful with future 1"s as many have stated that this team has some holes to fill. Isn't this a deep draft as far as WR's go. I would love for the Bills to get MHJ but realistically the chances of that happening are zero.

Edited February 5 by Gregg

[Nihilarian]

On 2/3/2024 at 2:10 PM, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

No way. This draft is super deep at WR. Remember when we moved up for Sammy Watkins in 2014? OBJ, Mike Evans, and Brandin Cooks were all on the board in the 1st. In the 2nd & 3rd Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, and John Brown were all available as well. It would be insanely stupid to waste valuable draft capital in a WR class like this. Beane just needs to be smart and find the right ones. 

This was because we had a porn watcher as a GM...he was also an idiot. Watkins made most of his yards out of screenplays and Buffalo didn't run those at that time. If that wasn't enough...right after drafting Sammy the Bills stated that they were still looking for a big, tall red zone target at WR. Hello, Mike Evans at @ #7...

 

 LBer Kahlil Mack, OT Jake Matthews, and 13 others went on to make the Pro Bowl in the first round that year 2014. Doug Whaley wanted to bolster his personal pick at QB in EJ with Watkins... who never made the Pro Bowl.

[boyst]

8 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

What can the Bills offer. There 1st RD pick is #28. That is basically a very good 2nd round pick. Offering 2's and 3's won't get them to #4. They have to be careful with future 1"s as many have stated that this team has some holes to fill. Isn't this a deep draft as far as WR's go. I would love for the Bills to get MHJ but realistically the chances of that happening are zero.

bills 1st round, bills 3rd round, player + conditional 2025.

 

players: Tre White, OL rando, Knox, LB, CB.