Mikie2times Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) If you started watching football in the 90's or earlier you got to witness the entirety of Brady with some decent context to boot. It felt like Brady was inevitable . If he had the ball late it wasn't if he would score but when. Leads didn't matter. He practically erased other HOF level QB's of that generation. Sure Ben, Peyton, and Drew eventually got one, which is good lesson for us because it really felt unlikely for a period of time. I think most of us feel like that level of domination just isn't possible again. Like what we saw was a once in lifetime thing. Bruce Smiths sack record, Barry Sanders doing Barry things. You just don't think you will see some things again because until that point all those years taught you they shouldn't happen in the first place. So when we see a guy like Mahomes have this type of success we sort of think, ok, ya, he's good but do it again. Then the next year you say the same thing. Then the next and the next and eventually you forget that you have been saying do it again for half a decade. Maybe what we are seeing is in fact another version of what all of us hoped we would never see again. Which as history has taught us, does not mean we will not get one or perhaps more, but it does mean it will be a very difficult path. Brady played in an era where stats were just not as easy to pile up as Mahomes so when you look at the data keep that in context. After 6 years in the league...... Mahomes = 4 AFC Championships, 2 Super Bowls, 1 pending Brady = 3 AFC championships, 3 Super Bowls The stats after 6 seasons aren't really close. I included Allen's most recent 5 years and extrapolated it into 6 years for comparisons sake. We sit here every offseason trying to solve why we didn't get to the Super Bowl like it's a physics question. Nobody would think that way during the Brady era. You knew out of the gate you weren't the favorite. You never were going to be the favorite and it would take something special to overcome it. We don't think that way because we keep saying ya, sure, do it again. Over and over it goes. Edited February 2 by Mikie2times 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 No...so far he's better 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: No...so far he's better According to those stats, so is Allen. But the BILLS haven't been as good as the Pats or Chiefs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Can we put the Mahomes threads in a different forum please? He doesn’t play for the Bills. Yes he’s good. Yes Josh is also good. Yes he is beatable. Yes he has beaten the Bills in the playoffs often. Cool. 1 1 2 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Yawn … we’ll see in about 14 more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 The recent dynasties included an all-world QB and an all-world TE Brady had Gronk Mahomes has Kelce Allen - hopefully Kincaid becomes the centerpiece. He has the ability. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 4 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: According to those stats, so is Allen. But the BILLS haven't been as good as the Pats or Chiefs. Allen is Phillip Rivers. Maybe he can pop out 7 kids so he can be known for more than being the guy that always loses in the playoffs 1 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Mahomes’ intangibles are similar to Brady’s. Mahomes physical skills are greater than Brady’s. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Yawn … we’ll see in about 14 more years. Curious what you have seen in the last 6 that doesn't tell you it can't go on for another 10? He has played in every conference championship since 2018 starting as a 2nd year player. We haven't seen that before. We sort of saw it with one other player. 7 minutes ago, Rigotz said: Can we put the Mahomes threads in a different forum please? He doesn’t play for the Bills. Yes he’s good. Yes Josh is also good. Yes he is beatable. Yes he has beaten the Bills in the playoffs often. Cool. Plenty of threads you don't need to be compelled to go into them all 4 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Allen is Phillip Rivers. Maybe he can pop out 7 kids so he can be known for more than being the guy that always loses in the playoffs Josh is way above Rivers. Big Ben, Peyton, and Brees comparisons are more accurate in the scheme of this conversation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Only thing he is missing from Brady's resume is the longevity....which is the kick in the nuts for Bills fans because at this rate he has the potential to keep going for awhile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Don’t care; the odds say it won’t. I don’t spend time thinking about it. Seems like a thread for FilthyBeast or a Chiefs board. Follow Mahomes if you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Defense Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 No, he's at Bradshaw and Aikman level now, a great quarterback, sure fire Hall of Famer. If he wins this year, and then a few more, then he will be in the GOAT conversation. Not yet, despite the media's penchant for hyperbole. Premature to do so now when Brady went to TEN and won SEVEN!, doing so over a loong period of time with extremely different teams. And two different teams. Almost inconceivable--he played in 10, won 7!! We just want one! 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 29 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: No...so far he's better Yea, I’m curious to see if the chiefs retool and he gets a gronk/moss type of cast if he will be an absolute buzz saw like the pats were…. But he’s matches or exceeded Brady in most ways 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Yea, I’m curious to see if the chiefs retool and he gets a gronk/moss type of cast if he will be an absolute buzz saw like the pats were…. But he’s matches or exceeded Brady in most ways Funny you say that because it will be his 7th year next season and it was Brady's 7th year when they went undefeated in the regular season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 38 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Allen is Phillip Rivers. Maybe he can pop out 7 kids so he can be known for more than being the guy that always loses in the playoffs Right now I’d rather he be Rivers than the current Chargers QB….at least Rivers knows how to get his team to the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 24 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Yea, I’m curious to see if the chiefs retool and he gets a gronk/moss type of cast if he will be an absolute buzz saw like the pats were…. But he’s matches or exceeded Brady in most ways That and can he do it for 20 years? Brady had the longevity. Mahomes looks like a doughboy. I doubt he watches what he eats or takes care of his body like Brady did 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 32 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: That and can he do it for 20 years? Brady had the longevity. Mahomes looks like a doughboy. I doubt he watches what he eats or takes care of his body like Brady did It’s a much less physical game today than when Brady played. You can’t even touch the QB in many instances, so that helps. If Mahomes wants to play for 20, he’s got the sort of game that could do it. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said: That and can he do it for 20 years? Brady had the longevity. Mahomes looks like a doughboy. I doubt he watches what he eats or takes care of his body like Brady did Can he get to 40? I mean that’s not even that abnormal at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 hours ago, Mikie2times said: If you started watching football in the 90's or earlier you got to witness the entirety of Brady with some decent context to boot. It felt like Brady was inevitable . If he had the ball late it wasn't if he would score but when. Leads didn't matter. He practically erased other HOF level QB's of that generation. Sure Ben, Peyton, and Drew eventually got one, which is good lesson for us because it really felt unlikely for a period of time. I think most of us feel like that level of domination just isn't possible again. Like what we saw was a once in lifetime thing. Bruce Smiths sack record, Barry Sanders doing Barry things. You just don't think you will see some things again because until that point all those years taught you they shouldn't happen in the first place. So when we see a guy like Mahomes have this type of success we sort of think, ok, ya, he's good but do it again. Then the next year you say the same thing. Then the next and the next and eventually you forget that you have been saying do it again for half a decade. Maybe what we are seeing is in fact another version of what all of us hoped we would never see again. Which as history has taught us, does not mean we will not get one or perhaps more, but it does mean it will be a very difficult path. Brady played in an era where stats were just not as easy to pile up as Mahomes so when you look at the data keep that in context. After 6 years in the league...... Mahomes = 4 AFC Championships, 2 Super Bowls, 1 pending Brady = 3 AFC championships, 3 Super Bowls The stats after 6 seasons aren't really close. I included Allen's most recent 5 years and extrapolated it into 6 years for comparisons sake. We sit here every offseason trying to solve why we didn't get to the Super Bowl like it's a physics question. Nobody would think that way during the Brady era. You knew out of the gate you weren't the favorite. You never were going to be the favorite and it would take something special to overcome it. We don't think that way because we keep saying ya, sure, do it again. Over and over it goes. I dont think the Colts with Manning or the Steelers with Roethlisberger thought they were that far behind Brady. Same goes for Bills and Bengals. Maybe the Chargers and Raiders do having to face him twice a year. But my guess is Harbaugh won't have the Chargers playing in awe or fear of him or the Chiefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 hours ago, Mikie2times said: Funny you say that because it will be his 7th year next season and it was Brady's 7th year when they went undefeated in the regular season. That year was the turning point in Brady's career as I recall. Up until that point he had the rings but never had dominant statistics. Up until that year, I always thought Peyton was the better QB but he just wasn't on the better team. I often say Mahomes is Manning and Brady rolled into one so far in his early career. He has the stats and the rings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said: Allen is Phillip Rivers. Maybe he can pop out 7 kids so he can be known for more than being the guy that always loses in the playoffs Allen's comp if we are talking careers and not playing style, is Drew Brees. To my knowledge, only one other QB in NFL history has had 3 straight 40+ TD seasons and that was Drew Brees. Allen has 4 now, breaking his tie with Brees. Brees also never won a league MVP despite a couple of monster statistical seasons. Brees also didn't make it to his one and only Super Bowl until his 9th year in the league. I've seen the Rivers comp thrown around, but I think that is a disservice to Allen. Rivers is a borderline HOF'er after a 17 year career. Allen is a borderline HOF'er after six seasons. In 17 seasons, Rivers has a 5-7 playoff record. After only six seasons, Allen has a 5-5 playoff record. I can't even imagine how horribly south things would have to go for Allen and the Bills if Allen were to only add two more playoff games to the resume over the next 10 years. Also, Rivers playoff passer rating is 10 points lower than his regular season passer rating. Allen's post season passer rating is 8 points higher than his regular season passer rating. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Mahomes is better than Brady. Not much to debate. He's got Brady level accuracy but also he's mobile and elusive. Might not be at Brady level at reading defenses but the rest makes up for it. Josh is better but has never had the same level supporting cast. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 He has that ability to play with ice in his veins in the biggest moments that Tom had. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 We finally get rid of our nemesis in the patsies and tom. Now the chefs. When can we be the team that is a thorn in the side of many others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 He needs to perform better in the Super Bowl but his playoff resume so far is even more impressive. Clutch as they come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Some things are better off not discussed, just saying.... But since you brought it up, If you compare the first 7 years, Mahomes kind of blows Brady away, sure they are close in team success but Mahomes was a bigger factor than Brady was in those years. Those Patriots teams were really well rounded with a great defense and run game. Brady was great but never had to light things up with his arm, I would say game manager to a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, davefan66 said: We finally get rid of our nemesis in the patsies and tom. Now the chefs. When can we be the team that is a thorn in the side of many others? We are. We’re just not the thorn in the side of the Chiefs. Or the Bengals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 7 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Yawn … we’ll see in about 14 more years. Exactly. What Brady accomplished is truly remarkable. I know people on the board hate Brady, but he really is the GOAT. Mahomes has a ways to go to be placed in that space. He is remarkable and the best current player in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 5 hours ago, Mikie2times said: Can he get to 40? I mean that’s not even that abnormal at this point. 20 + 23 (his first season) is 43. Yeah I'd say that's abnormal and 99% of players won't get there 4 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Allen's comp if we are talking careers and not playing style, is Drew Brees. To my knowledge, only one other QB in NFL history has had 3 straight 40+ TD seasons and that was Drew Brees. Allen has 4 now, breaking his tie with Brees. Brees also never won a league MVP despite a couple of monster statistical seasons. Brees also didn't make it to his one and only Super Bowl until his 9th year in the league. I've seen the Rivers comp thrown around, but I think that is a disservice to Allen. Rivers is a borderline HOF'er after a 17 year career. Allen is a borderline HOF'er after six seasons. In 17 seasons, Rivers has a 5-7 playoff record. After only six seasons, Allen has a 5-5 playoff record. I can't even imagine how horribly south things would have to go for Allen and the Bills if Allen were to only add two more playoff games to the resume over the next 10 years. Also, Rivers playoff passer rating is 10 points lower than his regular season passer rating. Allen's post season passer rating is 8 points higher than his regular season passer rating. You are assuming Josh wants to play 10 more years. They asked him on a podcast and he says he goes back and forth if he wants to play that long and that the style he plays he knows his career will be shorter. Cam Newton was toast by age 32. Josh might only have 4-5 more years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 9 hours ago, zow2 said: The recent dynasties included an all-world QB and an all-world TE Brady had Gronk Mahomes has Kelce Allen - hopefully Kincaid becomes the centerpiece. He has the ability. The Pats had a Belichick coached defense. The Chiefs have Spags. Also, between Belichick, Reid, McDermott. One of them doesn't belong with the other two as far as coaching goes. I think we know who the odd man out is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 58 minutes ago, Gregg said: The Pats had a Belichick coached defense. The Chiefs have Spags. Also, between Belichick, Reid, McDermott. One of them doesn't belong with the other two as far as coaching goes. I think we know who the odd man out is. For sure McDermott isn't Belichick or Reid. They are two of the greatest coaches of all time. But they aren't the only guys to have won Superbowls in the past two decades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: For sure McDermott isn't Belichick or Reid. They are two of the greatest coaches of all time. But they aren't the only guys to have won Superbowls in the past two decades. As far as dynasties go, they are along with Chuck Knoll and Bill Walsh in the 70's and 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 No ... Toney wouldn't have been flagged for being Offside if Brady was the QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said: You are assuming Josh wants to play 10 more years. They asked him on a podcast and he says he goes back and forth if he wants to play that long and that the style he plays he knows his career will be shorter. Cam Newton was toast by age 32. Josh might only have 4-5 more years I'm not sure that's relevant in the discussion of whether Allen's career is more like Rivers or more like Brees. Even if Allen for some reason only has a 10 year career he will have accomplished more than Rivers did in a 17 year career. Like I said, Allen is a border line HOF'er now after just six seasons in the league. He's likely a lock after next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: Exactly. What Brady accomplished is truly remarkable. I know people on the board hate Brady, but he really is the GOAT. Mahomes has a ways to go to be placed in that space. He is remarkable and the best current player in the NFL. Brady also has the head to head Super Bowl win. Mahomes is probably going to need 8 rings to clearly pass the GOAT. That means he'll probably need to go to about 12 Super Bowls. I sure hope he doesn't come close to that as long as Allen is still playing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 32 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: I'm not sure that's relevant in the discussion of whether Allen's career is more like Rivers or more like Brees. Even if Allen for some reason only has a 10 year career he will have accomplished more than Rivers did in a 17 year career. Like I said, Allen is a border line HOF'er now after just six seasons in the league. He's likely a lock after next season. What has Allen accomplished over Rivers? I think you guys are assuming we will continue to be good with basically half the team in free agency or that Allen will play significantly longer and at a higher level than other "mobile" quarterbacks. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Fair question. I think the fairest way to compare the early careers of the two QB's is to single out River's first 4 years as a starting QB, he sat for his first two years and took over a ready to win now team. Allen, of course was still developing his first two seasons in the league into the QB he would become over the last four seasons. Efficiency wise they were actually the same QB in the regular season through prime four years of each players six first seasons. They had the exact same passer rating of 96.3 Both also had respectable QBR's during this time period all though I would say Allen has the clear edge as Rivers did have one season with a sub 60 QBR and Allen's QBR's are pretty consistently higher than Rivers. Rivers QBR seasons: 2006: 67 2007: 55 2008: 63 2009: 77 Allen QBR seasons: 2020: 77 2021: 61 2022: 73 2023: 70 Phillip Rivers first four seasons starting, years 3-6 in the league: 64 games 96.3 regular season passer rating 14803 passing yards 216 rushing yards 15,019 total yards 3,755 yards per 16 game season 105 passing TDs 2 rushing TD's 107 Total TD's 44 INT's 33 fumbles Josh Allen 2020-2023 66 games 96.3 regular season passer rating 17,540 passing yards 2,470 rushing yards 20,010 total yards 4,851 yards per 16 game season 137 passing TD's 37 rushing/receiving TD's 174 Total TD's 57 Interceptions 37 fumbles What pops is the volume Allen has put up. The game was different back in 2006-2009 but was it so different that Allen would average 1,100 more yards per season on average? And Allen's 174 total TD's over a 4 year stretch is NFL record I think. Rivers of course didn't have to put up huge numbers because they relied on LT early in Rivers career. But that shouldn't be a knock on Allen. And I am not so sure Rivers became a better QB both by volume and efficiency once that running game with LT went away. Allen also really separates himself from Rivers in post season performance. Through each players first six seasons in the league Allen is 5-5, Rivers was 3-4. Rivers had 8 passing TD's to 9 INT's with probably a sub 80 passer rating in the playoffs. Josh Allen through his first six seasons, 21 passing TD's to 4 INT's and 100 passer rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 13 hours ago, Rigotz said: Can we put the Mahomes threads in a different forum please? He doesn’t play for the Bills. Yes he’s good. Yes Josh is also good. Yes he is beatable. Yes he has beaten the Bills in the playoffs often. Cool. Why?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Brady is the most consistent player I've ever watched. That's what made him great. Obviously QBs like Allen and Mahomes can make plays that Brady can only dream of, but they also make mistakes he would never make. If you're starting a team with very little supporting talent on offense I would take Mahomes because he can do more with less. But starting a team with decent or better supporting talent I would take Brady over any other QB in history. Fun fact about the two - Brady was the opposing QB in Mahomes' first regular season loss, first playoff loss, and first Super Bowl loss. That will make a nice trivia question 20 years from now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 13 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: According to those stats, so is Allen. But the BILLS haven't been as good as the Pats or Chiefs. The only stats that count are championships and Allen is N/A in that category. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.