The 2nd and 9 endzone shot to Shakir

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  😭😭

 

Melon farmer's gonna melon farmer.

 

Look I know it's an unpopular take around here because he's been the best QB we've had, maybe ever.

 

But sometimes, the man absolutely sucks at making decisions on the field. Period. He does that at inopportune times and yes, it costs us games. Sometimes big games.

Edited January 22 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

All the talking about this play or that play, defense was not prepared to play against KC.

[davefan66]

Score when you can score.  You never know what will happen next play.  Botched snap? Int? Fumble?  Score when you can score.

 

I’ll be honest, missed the play. My son and I were dealing with the aftermath the wonderful young women behind us did by puking on mostly him and our seats.  Yeah, so that was fun.

[JaCrispy]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Because you never make assumptions that you will have another opportunity at a later time for a TD when it's available right now. Anything could have happened.  A sack, tipped ball INT, a receiver fumbling the ball, etc...

 

Playing like you "know" you can just score at some later time isn't a luxury you get in the NFL.

At the very least it would have made an easier kick for Bass…so it’s a win/win in my book, even if we didn’t end up scoring a TD…

Edited January 22 by JaCrispy

[Rich Stadium Original]

I think Allen only gets a little bit of the blame on this play, and he said as much in the press conference.

First of all, if you must, fault Brady for the play call. The team was trying to score when they had the opportunity and that was the call. 

Allen went through his progressions almost instantly.  That was the #1 target in the progression as it was called,  receiver was coming open, thats where he threw it.

Diggs may have been the #2 read in the progression, but it never got that far as the 1st read was open.

You can partly blame Dawkens for not really slowing up the bull rush and ending up in the lap of your QB.

 Finally in the press conference, I believe Allen blames himself for not sliding a little to his right in the dropback...but that would have taken some ESP as he would of had to ANTICIPATE Dawkins was not going to make that block and drift to his right DURING his dropback.

If Allen had to slide off his spot after he had already dropped back, it would have completely thrown off the timing of the play.

 

Edited January 22 by Rich Stadium Original
Misspelling

[JerseyBills]

6 hours ago, Process said:

If you have a guy wide open for a TD you take it there is no debate 

 

Let's say Diggs takes it to the 10.

 

Timeout

 

Run, stopped 

 

Timeout

 

Run, stopped 

 

Throw on third down, incomplete

 

FG

 

Chiefs still have over a minute left

We held them to a 3&out prior series  2 if you include a fugazi pi call. So no telling what happens , 6 straight plays, zero 1st downs. 

I feel ya though, with our luck they score somehow

Random- Josh and Shakir was the 1st time Sneed gave up a TD

[Kmart128]

Shakir was probably Allens first read and it was open. Why even go to the other reads if your first is so wide open. Who is to say that throwing underneath wouldn't have been deflected by the DLineband we are asking why he didn't throw to Shakir wide open

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Melon farmer's gonna melon farmer.

 

Look I know it's an unpopular take around here because he's been the best QB we've had, maybe ever.

 

But sometimes, the man absolutely sucks at making decisions on the field. Period. He does that at inopportune times and yes, it costs us games. Sometimes big games.

 

It was the right decision. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

It was the right decision. 

I stopped at PFF

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I stopped at PFF

I ignore their grades but the analysis is good. Josh saw the CB flat footed off the post route and went for the dagger. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Roundybout said:

I ignore their grades but the analysis is good. Josh saw the CB flat footed off the post route and went for the dagger. 

Which given the situation, was the wrong call. Goal was to choke them out and score LAST.

 

[BillsFan2313]

7 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Going up 4 vs. 3 is an entirely different  scenario. If 
 

I have no problem with taking a shot to a WIDE OPEN receiver in the end zone in this situation. Especially on 2nd down. 
 

people arguing the check down to Diggs are really arguing they want to milk the clock and settle for overtime. That’s the mentality. Milk the clock, play conservative and kick a 28 yard Fg after going ultra conservative in the red zone after picking up the first down to Diggs. 
 

so play for overtime. A loser mentality. 

 

Or it says, I am feeling the pressure coming, let me get some yards and go from there. But hey, loser mentality I guess...

[BillsFan130]

7 hours ago, BeastMaster said:

This will always be debated, and both sides have an argument.

 

I am on the side that you take the touchdown if it's there.

 

He just got knocked off his spot enough to alter the throw that he missed

 

Who knows what happens if he takes Diggs underneath. We will never know

Thank you... 

 

People just assume we are automatically going to get a TD there if we played for the 1st down 

 

Imagine if we got the 1st down , get stopped after, and then bass shanks a 33 yarder? (Which would have been very possible)
 

People would be losing their minds and say why didn't they go for the TD when Shakir was wide open

Edited January 22 by BillsFan130

[Roundybout]

4 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Which given the situation, was the wrong call. Goal was to choke them out and score LAST.

 

Thats cowardly, score on them. You might not have the chance again. 
 

 

That thinking is why we did 16 passes behind the line of scrimmage. 

[BillsFan2313]

7 hours ago, letsgoteam said:

Exactly. Just because Diggs catches it... Maybe Diggs fumbles and it's KC ball. Or Diggs is tackled for first down.

 

Next snap, Josh drops back or just runs it and is tackled. Sustains a career ending injury or he scores a TD. 

 

No one knows what happens afterwords. It could have been the same outcome. A missed FG from closer.

Lol

Edited January 22 by BillsFan2313

[Roundybout]

 

 

I agree with this take. 

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

7 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Going up 4 vs. 3 is an entirely different  scenario. If 
 

I have no problem with taking a shot to a WIDE OPEN receiver in the end zone in this situation. Especially on 2nd down. 
 

people arguing the check down to Diggs are really arguing they want to milk the clock and settle for overtime. That’s the mentality. Milk the clock, play conservative and kick a 28 yard Fg after going ultra conservative in the red zone after picking up the first down to Diggs. 
 

so play for overtime. A loser mentality. 

The mentality is drain the clock as much as you can and score a TD with little to no time left for the chefs to score. So a pretty much a redo of 13 seconds but they need a TD not a FG. If you don’t get the td you still have chance at the tie on a shorter FG for your struggling kicker with little to no time left. 

We see where the way you wanted got us. A loss. So wouldn’t that be a losers mentality? 

[stevewin]

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Am I the only one who thinks that if Cook bounced that outside he might have scored?  There was lilterally nobody outside the last guy on the line and he crashed down hard. Cook might have jogged into the endzone, or at the very least got tackled inside the 10 by the safety coming over. They had 9 guys on the LOS, there was nobody past the first wave.

Everyone mad about the first down run - I don't have a problem with calling the play initially- cook had been tearing off runs up the middle the whole game - i dont understand how/why you don't check out of it if it is so obvious they are selling out to stop it before the snap

Edited January 22 by stevewin

[billieve420]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

 

 

I agree with this take. 

 

 

I am taking the 4-5 yds there in that situation. If the play was to go to Shakir in that spot then I question the play call and timing of it. We needed the higher percentage play there with the amount of time remaining knowing KC was moving ball with ease against this defense. I would then have gone for it on 4th down if we were unable to convert and it was close enough. Put the ball in your best player's hand and allow him to make something happen. Same thing with 3rd down take what was given to give yourself a shot at converting it on 4th if you needed to.

Edited January 22 by billieve420

[HappyDays]

Perfect read from Allen. Chris Jones made the play. That's it.

[CincyBillsFan]

14 hours ago, Man with No Name said:

the 2nd and 9 play to shakir was the right call. he was open. the first down run was not the correct call. 

The first down run was the desire to bleed clock and illustrated everything wrong abut McD's approach to the offense yesterday.  And yes I believe that McD instructed Brady as to how he wanted the offense to compliment his defense in the game.  But at some point and with the chance to take a 4 point lead with about 2 minutes remaining you must aggressively go after the TD.

 

As others have pointed out this is the NFL playoffs and you can't just assume that you will score the TD with 10 seconds left on the clock.  I believe the only time we threw the ball downfield on first down in the second half was when Diggs dropped that perfectly thrown 60 yard bomb.  The play action worked great there and I have to believe that Brady wanted to exploit the KC issues at Safety with more aggressive play action passes on first down.

 

 

[Einstein]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Perfect read from Allen. Chris Jones made the play. That's it.

Been yelling this from the rooftops since it happened.

Allen made the right decision.

Thanks for posting this video.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

If you have a wide open touchdown, and a wide open check down, you throw the MF TD every single time. 

[JoshAllin]

6 hours ago, Roundybout said:

 

 

I agree with this take. 

 

If you pause it at 5s he releases the ball around then and if he hit Diggs in stride he's going past 32 and has Kincaid blocking for him for a possible TD

Edited January 22 by motorj

[dma0034]

14 hours ago, Process said:

If you have a guy wide open for a TD you take it there is no debate 

 

Let's say Diggs takes it to the 10.

 

Timeout

 

Run, stopped 

 

Timeout

 

Run, stopped 

 

Throw on third down, incomplete

 

FG

 

Chiefs still have over a minute left

 

 

That's the absolute worst case scenario and it's still better than giving the ball back to Mahomes with 2 minutes left and 2 TOs.

 

Hell, Bills could throw 2 TE screens after the 1st down run and go for it at the 1 or 2 yard line with 20 seconds left. 

Edited January 22 by dma0034

[Einstein]

8 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

 

That's the absolute worst case scenario

 

No it's not.

Worse case scenario is Cook fumbles the ball the next play (after Diggs gets the first down) and we lose. Or a ball gets tipped an KC intercepts it. Or what if we get a holding penalty and are pushed back and its 1st and Goal from the 20? 

Endzone throw was the right call.

[colin]

8 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

We held them to a 3&out prior series  2 if you include a fugazi pi call. So no telling what happens , 6 straight plays, zero 1st downs. 

I feel ya though, with our luck they score somehow

Random- Josh and Shakir was the 1st time Sneed gave up a TD

 

i still say we had to go for 7, but i feel you on this fellow jersey bills fan.

 

what i noticed, and i might be coloring my view because of my decided personal bias, but once dorian williams went in for aj, we started bodying fools.  sometimes you need an enforcer, and by sometimes i mean at all times.

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, colin said:

 

i still say we had to go for 7, but i feel you on this fellow jersey bills fan.

 

what i noticed, and i might be coloring my view because of my decided personal bias, but once dorian williams went in for aj, we started bodying fools.  sometimes you need an enforcer, and by sometimes i mean at all times.

I didn't even know he replaced AJ. Games like this get fuzzy because I get super intense,  I do remember when Dodson came out for a bit Dorian destroyed a Chiefs player  had me jumping out my seat.  Hopefully he has a Benard like trajectory 

[Eastport bills]

18 hours ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

He had Shakir but jostled by Jones bull rushing Dawkins into him he couldn’t step into the throw.  How could you as a fan, question his abilities when he was the friggin offense and lead the team team in rushing and scored 2 Touchdowns. The beaten up defense allowed 4 straight TD drives if you don’t count the touchback. How about the TD drives he engineered with wide receivers doing nothing but dropping perfectly thrown passes. You’re just a malcontent who makes this forum an embarrassment. Without Josh you’re wearing a paper bag on your head at games.

[KeLLy1278]

Guys… that was an instinctual play and decision made by Allen to go for the throat in that situation.  It is the way he is wired.  I do not think it was a smart decision even if it was a TD because there would be more time left on the clock for KC to try and come back.  It’s a gray area though.  You can try to think it through but there is nothing definitive from what could have would have should have happened.  If.. if..  Nothing is guaranteed.  Even if it was a TD right there, KC still does have to drive to set up a score.  Not guaranteed that they would have but likely I guess.  Pure speculation.

 

in looking at it, I think Allen should have threw it underneath.  But going a step beyond that, I think that the biggest issue on the play was that Allen was not able to notice the rush in time to try and shift a bit before the attempted throw.  This is all split second in the moment analysis as a QB but the great ones are able to see it a bit better and step up to make the throw.  I would have liked a short throw to eat up more clock and keep marching.  Allen is dynamic.  Unfortunately.. the team needs to learn from a season ending loss yet again.  On offense.. I thought Diggs had the worse game of any other player.  There were a handful of tough catches that he dropped.. around three.  The Bills needed him to make one of them.  He couldn’t.  That’s football.
 

The Front office needs to ask themselves one question.  WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO IMPROVE THIS TEAM’S DEFENSE SO WE CAN SLOW DOWN KC.  PERIOD & END OF STORY.  
 

Make no mistake.  This was a disappointing loss.  I expected the Bills to win this game.  This entire team and the fanbase feels like ***** right now.  The fans will always be there but they can’t make plays, choose personel.  
Tunnel vision in the offseason for 2024.

 

I’m more upset about this loss than I thought I would be.  This was a missed opportunity but what’s done is done.  What are the Buffalo Bills?  A talented team that is unable to make clutch plays when it matters most.  That’s who they have been.  That’s who they are.  When will they break through is the question because we all know that this team is close but I am sick of saying that as well.  

 

[Solomon Grundy]

21 hours ago, Roundybout said:

It was the complete right throw. If Josh had half a second more to plant better that’s 6. Take it every time. 

They said on Get Up that Dawkins stepped on Josh foot before the throw

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

They said on Get Up that Dawkins stepped on Josh foot before the throw

 

That'll leave a mark....

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

 

 

Kurt Warner part 2 video

 

Go to 28:06 for Kurt Warner to breakdown the final two plays.

Edited January 23 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The first down run was the desire to bleed clock and illustrated everything wrong abut McD's approach to the offense yesterday.  And yes I believe that McD instructed Brady as to how he wanted the offense to compliment his defense in the game.  But at some point and with the chance to take a 4 point lead with about 2 minutes remaining you must aggressively go after the TD.

 

As others have pointed out this is the NFL playoffs and you can't just assume that you will score the TD with 10 seconds left on the clock.  I believe the only time we threw the ball downfield on first down in the second half was when Diggs dropped that perfectly thrown 60 yard bomb.  The play action worked great there and I have to believe that Brady wanted to exploit the KC issues at Safety with more aggressive play action passes on first down.

 

 

if anyone can explain bleeding the clock on the front side of two mins and then going for the end zone inside— I’d be all ears 

 

to me it amounts to “let’s ensure only one possession happens after ours.” That’s worst case possible for 0 (as we saw), 3 or 7 (full drives with no pressure from the clock and unlikely to give Josh the ball back) 
 

either you finish the drive between 2-3 mins and hope to get the last touch, or you bleed the clock, target the first down out of the warning and let the clock pressure the chiefs while you take shots 

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

No it's not.

Worse case scenario is Cook fumbles the ball the next play (after Diggs gets the first down) and we lose. Or a ball gets tipped an KC intercepts it. Or what if we get a holding penalty and are pushed back and its 1st and Goal from the 20? 

Endzone throw was the right call.

then they should throw it at 2:20 instead of sitting on the ball

[Hotdog water]

Watch the replay, Josh got his foot stepped on as he threw the ball. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

The Front office needs to ask themselves one question.  WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO IMPROVE THIS TEAM’S DEFENSE SO WE CAN SLOW DOWN KC.  PERIOD & END OF STORY. 

 

If this is what the front office is asking and doing the Bills will never sniff a Super Bowl and will have wasted the career of one of the most gifted QB's in NFL history.  Honestly if Bean/McD goes this route then Allen needs to pack his bags and get out of town.  This kind of move by McD/Bean would make me reconsider my fandom. 

[Drew21PA]

7 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The first down run was the desire to bleed clock and illustrated everything wrong abut McD's approach to the offense yesterday.  And yes I believe that McD instructed Brady as to how he wanted the offense to compliment his defense in the game.  But at some point and with the chance to take a 4 point lead with about 2 minutes remaining you must aggressively go after the TD.

 

As others have pointed out this is the NFL playoffs and you can't just assume that you will score the TD with 10 seconds left on the clock.  I believe the only time we threw the ball downfield on first down in the second half was when Diggs dropped that perfectly thrown 60 yard bomb.  The play action worked great there and I have to believe that Brady wanted to exploit the KC issues at Safety with more aggressive play action passes on first down.

 

 

I said it the entire second half Brady was absolutely correct with sherfiled and Diggs call

 

i wanted to see one more shot to shakir since he was actually catching the ball

 

never came but it was there and open 

[zow2]

51 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

if anyone can explain bleeding the clock on the front side of two mins and then going for the end zone inside— I’d be all ears 

 

to me it amounts to “let’s ensure only one possession happens after ours.” That’s worst case possible for 0 (as we saw), 3 or 7 (full drives with no pressure from the clock and unlikely to give Josh the ball back) 
 

either you finish the drive between 2-3 mins and hope to get the last touch, or you bleed the clock, target the first down out of the warning and let the clock pressure the chiefs while you take shots 

then they should throw it at 2:20 instead of sitting on the ball

 

After the Two min warning the correct sequence should have been getting the first down and continue bleeding it. If the very last resort was a Bass FG attempt it would be likely from 10 yards closer and possibly the last play to ensure the kick would send it to OT and not give KC a final possession.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

I can just see it now:  Allen throws the ball to Diggs and he gains 6 yards.  On 3rd and 3 Allen plows ahead for 5 yards.  Chiefs call TO.  Then a run to Cook for minus 2 and Chiefs call their last TO.  Allen then hits Kincaid at the 4 yard line for a FIRST DOWN and goal.  Then the Bills run out the clock but KC has a great goal line stand and we kick the FG and the game goes to OT where the Chiefs score a TD while we score a FG.

 

Then on 2BD some Allen hating poster will link to a video showing how Allen passed up a TD throw to Shakir to check it down to Diggs.  You know this would happen.

 

 

[Roundybout]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I can just see it now:  Allen throws the ball to Diggs and he gains 6 yards.  On 3rd and 3 Allen plows ahead for 5 yards.  Chiefs call TO.  Then a run to Cook for minus 2 and Chiefs call their last TO.  Allen then hits Kincaid at the 4 yard line for a FIRST DOWN and goal.  Then the Bills run out the clock but KC has a great goal line stand and we kick the FG and the game goes to OT where the Chiefs score a TD while we score a FG.

 

Then on 2BD some Allen hating poster will link to a video showing how Allen passed up a TD throw to Shakir to check it down to Diggs.  You know this would happen.

 

 

100%. actually what would happen is Diggs would gain 5, Cook would get stuffed up the middle then we’d kick a field goal to tie. It misses, we lose, then certain posters here blame “melon farmer” for missing Shakir wide open in the end zone