Why did clock stop after Allen’s amazing 3rd and 13 run

[Charles Romes]

I’m still trying to figure out why the clock stopped at 3:12 after Allen’s amazing 3rd and 13 run.

 

The clock stopped and the Dolphins were able to preserve a timeout which ultimately lead to them to having almost two full minutes for the last drive. Bills could have run the clock down to under 1:30 if the Dolphins burned a timeout after the amazing Allen run. Tirico mentioned that the Ramsey hold caused the clock to stop, but if that’s true couldn’t the Bills have just declined the 5 yard penalty to force the timeout, taking the ball on the Bills 49 rather than the Dolphins 46?

 

The five yards did not put them into field goal range.  
 

Was it clock mismanagement by McD to accept the Ramsey penalty?  
 

3rd & 13 at BUF 34

(3:12 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen scrambles right end to BUF 49 for 15 yards (C.Wilkins). PENALTY on MIA-J.Ramsey, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 49.

 

Does anyone know the answer? 

[Mark Vader]

2 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

I’m still trying to figure out why the clock stopped at 3:12 after Allen’s amazing 3rd and 13 run.

 

The clock stopped and the Dolphins were able to preserve a timeout which ultimately lead to them to having almost two full minutes for the last drive. Bills could have run the clock down to under 1:30 if the Dolphins burned a timeout after the amazing Allen run. Tirico mentioned that the Ramsey hold caused the clock to stop, but if that’s true couldn’t the Bills have just declined the 5 yard penalty to force the timeout, taking the ball on the Bills 49 rather than the Dolphins 46?

 

The five yards did not put them into field goal range.  
 

Was it clock mismanagement by McD to accept the Ramsey penalty?  
 

3rd & 13 at BUF 34

(3:12 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen scrambles right end to BUF 49 for 15 yards (C.Wilkins). PENALTY on MIA-J.Ramsey, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 49.

 

Does anyone know the answer? 

I've been wondering this too. Was there an injured player at the end of the play?

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

I’m still trying to figure out why the clock stopped at 3:12 after Allen’s amazing 3rd and 13 run.

 

The clock stopped and the Dolphins were able to preserve a timeout which ultimately lead to them to having almost two full minutes for the last drive. Bills could have run the clock down to under 1:30 if the Dolphins burned a timeout after the amazing Allen run. Tirico mentioned that the Ramsey hold caused the clock to stop, but if that’s true couldn’t the Bills have just declined the 5 yard penalty to force the timeout, taking the ball on the Bills 49 rather than the Dolphins 46?

 

The five yards did not put them into field goal range.  
 

Was it clock mismanagement by McD to accept the Ramsey penalty?  
 

3rd & 13 at BUF 34

(3:12 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen scrambles right end to BUF 49 for 15 yards (C.Wilkins). PENALTY on MIA-J.Ramsey, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 49.

 

Does anyone know the answer? 

 

I believe due to the penalty? I think it stops regardless of whether it's enforced or not.

[Airseven]

The run was so amazing time stood still.

[GunnerBill]

Because inside the final 5 minutes a penalty stops the clock whether enforced or declined.

[rusty shackleford]

Yeah it stopped because of the holding penalty on Ramsey. The hold resulted in 5 yards added to the end of the run so we accepted. I don't think declining it would have stared the clock again either.

[Royale with Cheese]

I just watched it on my DVR and I think the refs screwed up maybe.

 

After the flag, the ball was placed at where Allen landed and not 5 yards for the defensive holding.  

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

I’m still trying to figure out why the clock stopped at 3:12 after Allen’s amazing 3rd and 13 run.

 

The clock stopped and the Dolphins were able to preserve a timeout which ultimately lead to them to having almost two full minutes for the last drive. Bills could have run the clock down to under 1:30 if the Dolphins burned a timeout after the amazing Allen run. Tirico mentioned that the Ramsey hold caused the clock to stop, but if that’s true couldn’t the Bills have just declined the 5 yard penalty to force the timeout, taking the ball on the Bills 49 rather than the Dolphins 46?

 

The five yards did not put them into field goal range.  
 

Was it clock mismanagement by McD to accept the Ramsey penalty?  
 

3rd & 13 at BUF 34

(3:12 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen scrambles right end to BUF 49 for 15 yards (C.Wilkins). PENALTY on MIA-J.Ramsey, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 49.

 

Does anyone know the answer? 

I noticed the same thing. The holding call makes sense. Either it was a *****up on the coaching staff not knowing that when they accepted or they figured the yardage helped more somehow.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

I just watched it on my DVR and I think the refs screwed up maybe.

 

After the flag, the ball was placed at where Allen landed and not 5 yards for the defensive holding.  

 

You have your answer now numb nuts.

[Buffalo03]

Sal Capaccio went over this at nauseum on WGR the last couple days. I suggest more WGR in your future 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

I noticed the same thing. The holding call makes sense. Either it was a *****up on the coaching staff not knowing that when they accepted or they figured the yardage helped more somehow.

 

Nope. By rule the clock stops whether declined or accepted under 5 minutes.

 

It actually shocks me so many regular NFL fans don't know this.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

Sal Capaccio went over this at nauseum on WGR the last couple days. I suggest more WGR in your future 

It’s another dumb NFL rule. One of the dumbest. I learn of a new dumb rule every year.

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s another dumb NFL rule. One of the dumbest. I learn of a new dumb rule every year.

Why is it dumb? It makes sense to me.

[4merper4mer]

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I noticed the same thing. The holding call makes sense. Either it was a *****up on the coaching staff not knowing that when they accepted or they figured the yardage helped more somehow.

Another possibility is that you don’t know the rules.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I just watched it on my DVR and I think the refs screwed up maybe.

 

After the flag, the ball was placed at where Allen landed and not 5 yards for the defensive holding.  

Allen scrambled to the Bills 49, they tacked on the five yards, and the next play from scrimmage was 1st and 10 at the Miami 46 so the penalty math works.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Why is it dumb? It makes sense to me.

Why would it make sense to you? A team should have the option to accept the penalty or not. Not accepting the penalty should run the clock.

[QB Bills]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. By rule the clock stops whether declined or accepted under 5 minutes.

 

It actually shocks me so many regular NFL fans don't know this.

This isn't technically true or the defender on a losing team would jump offside pre-snap all the time late in games (like during a qb kneel-down). I believe it has to be a post-snap penalty for this to be enforced.

Edited January 10 by QB Bills

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Why is it dumb? It makes sense to me.

 

The team that committed the penalty got more of a benefit than the team accepting the penalty. That should never be the case. 

 

Why don't they have the clock start on ready to play after a penalty like that ? Or at least give the Bills the option to decline and have the clock start from there

[Charles Romes]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Why is it dumb? It makes sense to me.

It’s dumb because the defense can gain for its team a massive time advantage - possibly preserving a chance to win - by committing a penalty.  

[YattaOkasan]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

Why is it dumb? It makes sense to me.

cause after you see someone make the first down you should commit a penalty to stop the clock.  its weird but the dolphins benefited from this rule despite being the team that committed the penalty.  if we decline the penalty and got the first down on our own we should be able to burn the clock.  if we accept the penalty to get the first down then yeah it should stop.  

[Process]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Why is it dumb? It makes sense to me.

How is it NOT dumb? If the dolphins didnt commit a penalty the clock would have ran. They committed a penalty and we declined. It should be like it never happened. Instead they get a huge benefit.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Charles Romes said:

It’s dumb because the defense can gain for its team a massive time advantage - possibly preserving a chance to win - by committing a penalty.  

Only if the penalties are declined. This is a pretty rare thing that has happened. There is no way for the defense to win by committing penalties on purpose because the offense would get free yards down the field.

2 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

cause after you see someone make the first down you should commit a penalty to stop the clock.  its weird but the dolphins benefited from this rule despite being the team that committed the penalty.  if we decline the penalty and got the first down on our own we should be able to burn the clock.  if we accept the penalty to get the first down then yeah it should stop.  

Most of those penalties you can commit after a first down would tack on yards at the end of the run, though.

1 minute ago, Process said:

How is it NOT dumb? If the dolphins didnt commit a penalty the clock would have ran. They committed a penalty and we declined. It should be like it never happened. Instead they get a huge benefit.

We're talking about something that probably happens pretty rarely.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

cause after you see someone make the first down you should commit a penalty to stop the clock.  its weird but the dolphins benefited from this rule despite being the team that committed the penalty.  if we decline the penalty and got the first down on our own we should be able to burn the clock.  if we accept the penalty to get the first down then yeah it should stop.  

And I’m taking it further. If a ref wanted to influence the outcome they can by throwing a flag and stopping the clock. 
 

Now don’t get me wrong, it was a blatant hold on Miami but you’re telling me Miami didn’t hold another time during the game?

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

This isn't technically true or the defender on a losing team would jump offside pre-snap all the time late in games (like during a qb kneel-down). I believe it has to be a post-snap penalty for this to be enforced.

 

Yea pre-snap penalties the clock will stop but the ref can start the play clock on ready for play rather than on the snap.

[Jukester]

10 minutes ago, Process said:

How is it NOT dumb? If the dolphins didnt commit a penalty the clock would have ran. They committed a penalty and we declined. It should be like it never happened. Instead they get a huge benefit.

But we didn’t decline it. We accepted the penalty and the extra 5 yards was added to the end of the run as someone else explained above.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, Jukester said:

But we didn’t decline it. We accepted the penalty and the extra 5 yards was added to the end of the run as someone else explained above.

 

But it wouldn't have made a difference whether the Bills declined or accepted the penalty. The clock would have still stopped and not restarted until the next snap.

[Jukester]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

 

But it wouldn't have made a difference whether the Bills declined or accepted the penalty. The clock would have still stopped and not restarted until the next snap.

Correct, either way the clock stops.

 

[Ta111]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Why is it dumb? It makes sense to me.

Because it allows the D to get a “free” timeout by causing a penalty.

1 hour ago, Jukester said:

But we didn’t decline it. We accepted the penalty and the extra 5 yards was added to the end of the run as someone else explained above.

Yes, and the reason it was accepted is because the clock stops regardless. The rule allows the D to get what is essentially a timeout by causing a penalty.

[SoCal Deek]

That definitely needs to be changed next year. It makes zero sense to stop the clock which by declining it, essentially means it never happened. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s another dumb NFL rule. One of the dumbest. I learn of a new dumb rule every year.

I agree.  Someone throws a flag, and at the end of the play the clock stops.  I get that. Officials need time to sort out and enforce the penalty.   But once that's done, why shouldn't the game resume in the same posture it was.  If the clock was running when it was stopped for the penalty, it should restart with a 25-second play clock.  Why should a team get the benefit of a clock stoppage when EITHER team is flagged?

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, Airseven said:

The run was so amazing time stood still.

Yeah that was up there with the KC leap 👍

[Jukester]

43 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  Someone throws a flag, and at the end of the play the clock stops.  I get that. Officials need time to sort out and enforce the penalty.   But once that's done, why shouldn't the game resume in the same posture it was.  If the clock was running when it was stopped for the penalty, it should restart with a 25-second play clock.  Why should a team get the benefit of a clock stoppage when EITHER team is flagged?

I like this

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. By rule the clock stops whether declined or accepted under 5 minutes.

 

It actually shocks me so many regular NFL fans don't know this.

ok, but why doesn’t it restart after the ball is placed? Another dumb rule that can give an unnecessary advantage.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  Someone throws a flag, and at the end of the play the clock stops.  I get that. Officials need time to sort out and enforce the penalty.   But once that's done, why shouldn't the game resume in the same posture it was.  If the clock was running when it was stopped for the penalty, it should restart with a 25-second play clock.  Why should a team get the benefit of a clock stoppage when EITHER team is flagged?

Well said Shaw, and I’d ad the core problem is that as the rule apparently stands the trailing team is incentivized to purposefully commit a foul in order to stop the clock. That’s obviously a problem for player safety. 

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Because inside the final 5 minutes a penalty stops the clock whether enforced or declined.

Why is that the rule?  What's the rationale.   Once the penalty is enforced, why shouldn't the game be put back in the same position it would have been if no penalty had been called?

 

If you're winning and on offense, the rule denies you an opportunity let the clock.  If you're losing, while the penalty is being enforced you're calling the next play and getting up to the LOS.  

 

Only thing I can think is that they want to advantage the losing team, so they can have a more exciting finish.  

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Why is that the rule?  What's the rationale.   Once the penalty is enforced, why shouldn't the game be put back in the same position it would have been if no penalty had been called?

 

If you're winning and on offense, the rule denies you an opportunity let the clock.  If you're losing, while the penalty is being enforced you're calling the next play and getting up to the LOS.  

 

Only thing I can think is that they want to advantage the losing team, so they can have a more exciting finish.  

 

I don't know why it is the rule but the overall rationale of the 5 minute timing rules (out of bounds is the same the only time the clock stops on out of bounds is inside 2 minutes 1st half and inside 5 second) is to preserve time in the game to encourage close finishes. 

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

It's a completely ridiculous rule where the clock stops regardless of whether the penalty is accepted or not. Here it is the full rule:

 

 

"The change approved Thursday adds a new line that simply says that the clock will now stop if the offense commits any accepted dead-ball foul at any point during the fourth quarter or overtime:

If the game clock is stopped after a down in which there was a foul by either team, following enforcement or declination of a penalty, the game clock will start as if the foul had not occurred, except that the clock will start on the snap if:

(1) the foul occurs after the two-minute warning of the first half;
(2) the foul occurs inside the last five minutes of the second half; or
(3) the offense commits a dead-ball foul during the fourth quarter or overtime that is accepted;
or
(4) a specific rule prescribes otherwise."

I posted this in another thread after the game:

 

"Seems like a silly rule that could be exploited. 

 

For example,  if a team picks up a first down with 1:50 seconds left and the defense has 1 timeout left the game would be over as the offense could run the clock out. Instead , if after the player gets the first down the defense commits a personal foul the clock would stop ? And now the offense could theoretically get the ball back with about 25 seconds. Mind Blown"

[Doc Brown]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. By rule the clock stops whether declined or accepted under 5 minutes.

 

It actually shocks me so many regular NFL fans don't know this.

 

Edited January 11 by Doc Brown

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know why it is the rule but the overall rationale of the 5 minute timing rules (out of bounds is the same the only time the clock stops on out of bounds is inside 2 minutes 1st half and inside 5 second) is to preserve time in the game to encourage close finishes. 

That was my first thought with the two and five minute exceptions.  I don't recall ever seeing this situation rarely ever happens.  If the Bills were down in the game it would've helped them as the clock stopped.  However, it's a rule that needs to be tweaked because we just saw it screw a team over by rewarding bad behavior by the Dolphins.  The coach (McDermott in this case) should be allowed to decline it and keep the clock running.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

 

 

Yea I am not surprised Nick Wrong doesn't know the rule. He barely knows his own name.